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  #41  
Old 06-17-2009, 03:10 PM
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Redboy Redboy is offline
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Default Re: VST Drumming (Share opinions, howtos, knowledge and discussions)

Hey there,

Just in case anyone was wondering - I've solved my hi-hat issue with the DTX and Logic.

I used a fairly unorthodox method but it works great.

Here's the link...

http://www.dtxperience.com/forums/sh...b=5&o=&fpart=1

Rock on!
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  #42  
Old 06-23-2009, 02:37 AM
Mediocrefunkybeat
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Default Re: VST Drumming (Share opinions, howtos, knowledge and discussions)

Excellent - glad you found a solution.

Incidentally, does anybody use a Monome or Arduinome? I've got an Arduinome (bought it from a friend who made it - will probably make another one at some point myself) and I've got it running into Max/MSP. Any advice from any other users?
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  #43  
Old 04-13-2010, 10:09 PM
Elegentdrum Elegentdrum is offline
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Default Re: VST Drumming (Share opinions, howtos, knowledge and discussions)

Here is my problem with VST drums, I believe this is why people look at the Muse receptor.

Drums need to respond in under 4.5 ms(millaseconds) to not feel mushy or delayed.

TD-20 triggers require about 2.5 ms to sense the triggers well enough to be smooth. And this is only if you have roland and or hart triggers. The pintech stuff wants about 2.7 ms. Home made wants about 3 ms. Triggers on regular drums want 3.2 ms

This leaves 2 ms for the midi to be converted to MIDI, transmitted, turned into a sound, and run through the audio system to be heard.

BFD2 likes at least 1 ms to apply minimal effects & control over the sounds. Now you are down to 1ms left.

Only an I-core7 PC designed for audio or a muse receptor can pull this off.

I originally wanted to Mic drums, blend together triggered audio with Mics, then send to the mixer guy out front. This can be done, but all effects have to be done post computer to eliminate delay and line up the audio with MIDI. End up using 16 Audio channels on a mixer, and out board processing. The total cost and complexity to get this done is huge. And this is assuming toms and Cymbals are pre-blended together and stereo mix's.

Most sound cards have about 3ms of delay within them selves. Only the really high end RME AD/DA stuff can get the delay down to fractions of a second/Number of samples, The muse receptor is looking better and better as I do my homework.

spending 100's of hours editing TD-20 drum sounds has payed off in allowing me to get good trigger setups. But the holy grail of sample drums live is still another $5K away for me in the form of a muse or Icore-7 from PD Audio labs.

Has anybody else spent time working to the same goal? Drums that feel, play, and sound like real drums, but can be edited with MIDI? At least buy buying Hart chrome drums I have four different size toms, and after putting Roland cones into them I have decent positional readings at the trigger input. Getting closer every day. Also, Using two inputs for the snare is really good. The rim and the head sounds now MIX rather than cut each other off.

Last edited by Elegentdrum; 04-13-2010 at 10:21 PM.
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  #44  
Old 08-28-2010, 11:28 PM
markmilne markmilne is offline
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Default Re: VST Drumming (Share opinions, howtos, knowledge and discussions)

You guys are light years ahead of me. I need some help getting started not with real electronic drums, but with virtual drums used purely in computer recording. I just started using Reaper to record guitars, voice, etc. and also so-called virtual instruments. I am also a drummer but want to work with virtual drums as well. Years ago I used Reason recording software and so in my computer I have the ReDrum drum machine that comes with Reason available to me in Reaper, but I am not entirely happy with ReDrum and am looking for some free machines to use.

The problem, as always, is that everyone assumes you are a pro and the jargon is killing me. I looked into downloading some free "Plug-ins" which seem to be the same thing as "VSTs" but on one website they organise the VSTs under "Drum Kits" and "Drum Synths" and then there are Drum Machines... are they all the same thing?

The Reason "machine" known as ReDrum looks like a little 10 channel mixing board with each channel being programable so you can select whether a channel should be a drum/cymbol/etc so if you decide channel 1 should be your hi-hat, you can then choose from 20 or so different hi-hat sounds and then you can also modify the sounds a bit...anyway I think all you guys following this thread know this.

The problem I am having is that I don't know if these drum synths or drum kits or whatever you want to call them (and if these names do refer to different things PLEASE clue me in) are like ReDrum in that they 1) allow you to control and automate drum sounds, and 2) contain drum sounds already, or if you need to import the drum sounds into the device.

But the main problem is that I have just figured I would download one and see what I get, but when I download them, my pc doesn't know how to open or run the file type. I think they are .dll, but I am not sure. I have read somewhere on a user forum (so grand that equipment manufacturers outsource their product servicing to the poor user community isn't it?) that you need to place those VST software bits into a folder inside the Reaper folder etc but this still has not allowed me to get these devices running.

This should be so bloody simple but it is so bloody not because product/software manufacturers just don't care about us, and because so much of the help available is talk between pros so the newbie like me is completely left in the dust.

I would really appreciate any help on this, with as little jargon as possible... so... "is there anybody out there?"
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  #45  
Old 09-04-2010, 01:16 PM
Pete55 Pete55 is offline
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Default Re: VST Drumming (Share opinions, howtos, knowledge and discussions)

I'm triggering Addictive Drums from a TD12.

Signal chain:
TD12 - Midi
ECHO Layla - PCI Interface
Windows XP on Pentium 2.8 GHz - 2GB Ram
Cubase 4 LE - Addictive Drums

Latency is about 10ms

Cheers
Peter
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  #46  
Old 09-08-2010, 08:09 AM
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spides666 spides666 is offline
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Default Re: VST Drumming (Share opinions, howtos, knowledge and discussions)

I have a Yamaha DTXtreme III and I can't see me using the module sounds ever again........they are painful after I got Superior Drummer 2.0 Drumkit From Hell and Metal Foundry

I am running the new iMAC i7 which is a beast with MBOX 2 with Pro Tools 8 LE

If I had my time again I'd get the pads and just get a MIDI controller..........that is all my Yamaha module is doing now.........triggering

Recorded sounds incredible.....
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  #47  
Old 09-11-2010, 07:37 PM
Beatbutcher Beatbutcher is offline
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Default Re: VST Drumming (Share opinions, howtos, knowledge and discussions)

Hello My name is Dj Beatbutcher ,

All the programs I saw on this forum are good but there is one king of kings and that is
"Ableton Live".
The name itself : "make it able to use electronics live."
Its the best of best on the moment.
In the program you can use internal drum-instruments and
combine VST instruments like EZ drummer, BDF, Battery, ect... and put other (external/internal)effects over it.
Its possible to loop live, or record your own stuff in realtime.
Check the possibillitys on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzZEaFAwNKo&feature=related

http://www.agdc.be
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  #48  
Old 11-03-2010, 07:38 PM
jwt0bos jwt0bos is offline
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Default Re: VST Drumming (Share opinions, howtos, knowledge and discussions)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tolgapala View Post
Anybody interested in vst drumming in this forum? Please post anything from your works, experiences, knowledge and questions to advices and tips&tricks.
Right now I am working with the Simmons SD7K & Battery 3 running under PreSonus Studio One, and a rugged IBM NetVista 8303 business computer. They're cheap on eBay. All the sound and video you need is on the motherboard. If you wanted to build an all in one VST drum box (poor man's receptor) I would recommend it. You could use Battery in standalone for live or jamming.

I am using the current version of ASIO4ALL and you would not believe the low latency and playability I am getting even running Battery under Studio One. My son and I are both drummers and we had to do some tweaking in ASIO4ALL but we got it down to where we couldn't perceive a delay. This one aspect is what makes the NetVista a viable option. Even though the audio comes out on a measley 1/8" headphone jack, the thrift of this setup is unbeatable I think.

Incidentally, we have used Guitar Rig on this computer with ASIO4ALL and that works just as well. Although guitar is less demanding latency wise, it doesn't matter. ASIO4ALL handles the audio in and out flawlessly.

Last edited by jwt0bos; 11-03-2010 at 07:54 PM.
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  #49  
Old 11-03-2010, 08:52 PM
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toddy toddy is offline
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Default Re: VST Drumming (Share opinions, howtos, knowledge and discussions)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwt0bos View Post
If you wanted to build an all in one VST drum box (poor man's receptor) I would recommend it.
I am interested in doing this. How good would my electronics knowledge need to be? I can solder, but I'm not that confident in designing a circuit. I guess I can find some schematics on v-drums.
I was going to buy a receptor, but if I could make something myself it would be much better.
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  #50  
Old 11-06-2010, 03:31 AM
jwt0bos jwt0bos is offline
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Default Re: VST Drumming (Share opinions, howtos, knowledge and discussions)

Quote:
Originally Posted by toddy View Post
I am interested in doing this. How good would my electronics knowledge need to be? I can solder, but I'm not that confident in designing a circuit. I guess I can find some schematics on v-drums.
I was going to buy a receptor, but if I could make something myself it would be much better.
The computer has several USB ports. You would need to use one of them as MIDI input. I have read elsewhere that the inexpensive MIDI to USB cables have latency issues. I am using the USB jack on my SD7K for MIDI. When we cranked down the settings on ASIO4ALL we got playable performance from the system running Battery under Presonus Studio One. But I would run Battery standalone. So you will need some kind of trigger to midi like the SD7K I would say to get this rig running.

Needs:
Monitor / keyboard / mouse
Battery
Some pads
A pad to midi device that transmits MIDI over USB (or other known low latency device)

The audio out is a 1/8" stereo line out. You would have to adapt to that to whatever interface you want. I have not scoped the output but I can say I have not heard any noise. For live or practice you have all you need in terms of audio quality. The ASIO4ALL driver was reporting 18 or 20 bits on the output. I can verify that if needed.
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  #51  
Old 11-06-2010, 04:01 PM
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toddy toddy is offline
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Default Re: VST Drumming (Share opinions, howtos, knowledge and discussions)

hmm that's not too bad. my main worry would be latency without using an interface of some kind. I have a midi to firewire device, but I'd rather not use that live. I also have a trigger i/o, I have a feeling it's latency might be too high standalone.

thanks for the info though I'll have to have a look.
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  #52  
Old 12-22-2010, 08:07 PM
jwt0bos jwt0bos is offline
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Default Re: VST Drumming (Share opinions, howtos, knowledge and discussions)

I did get it working with a low enough latency for drums. Drums are my main instrument and I definately could tell we had a problem with the latency that was satisfactory for guitar processing and keyboards. When I cranked the latency settings way down in ASIO4ALL it messed up my sample sizes especially with the instruments I was running over FX Teleport. Latency and sample size are related and it royally screwed up those settings FX Teleport had fine tuned on all those machines' instruments. I got it back though. Bottom line, the NetVista alone WILL do it, I did it myself. Although I was running Battery within Studio One - I would just run Battery in standalone.


If this post seems a little psychotic it is because I am tired. If you get a NetVista 8303 or faster, you have everything but a pad to computer interface. As I said I am using MIDI over USB from the SD7K and it is totally satisfactory. I don't know the specs of USB MIDI vs. normal MIDI, but I am inclined to believe USB MIDI is better for drummers, since you're talking between the two machines in a native format and at theoretically up to 480 Mbps.It's got to help.

I think I am getting a low profile ASIO capable card for Christmas. http://www.audiotrak.net/products/prodigyhd2/ This will guarantee satisfactory drum response plus studio quality audio. I can post my findings when I get to it.

By the way since I posted last I learned that the SD7K is transmitting full velocity over midi (0-127) even though the sound generator in the SD7K itself only plays 3 !!

Last edited by jwt0bos; 12-22-2010 at 09:31 PM.
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  #53  
Old 01-18-2011, 10:38 PM
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tolgapala tolgapala is offline
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Default Re: VST Drumming (Share opinions, howtos, knowledge and discussions)

Hey there,

it has been some time since I last posted anything in this thread. I have moved to a new apartment in the meantime so I thought it might be a good idea to send an updated picture of my gear at home.

questions are welcome as always.

cheers

tolga

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