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  #1  
Old 01-01-2011, 04:20 AM
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Default Update on Wac'd Drums

As a follow up to my previous thread http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=68178
i am now able to show you what has been brewing now that the patent work is done.
Let me say at this point if anyone has ideas and they seek to patent the idea , please use a patent lawyer to do it . Yeah it cost a pretty penny but after going over the 26 pages associated with it , it was worth the cost. Make sure the one you pick has a good and long understanding of the process. I was lucky enough to get one that still is the patent attorney for Rawling Sports and Evenflow (baby products),
I have also surrounded myself with three partners that share the same enthusiasm as me.
There is a 50/50 partner that has come forth and has made a big investment both monetary and business sense wise (which is something i surely am lacking) .
Also on board as minor partners are two drummers that have helped me develop this tuning system with alot of r&d work. They have been instrumental in keeping me on track with the development of this and some of the other things i have up my sleeve!
We are still in the process of getting all the partnership agreements and the business plan together. I had hoped to have it done already , but due to the holidays and there not being much sense in working on one months worth of taxes, it was collectively agreed upon to wait until the start of 2011. Also each one of us works a regular job so time is of a premium.
So enough blabbering, and so as not to break any board rules i won't be disclosing any prices or anything that may come off as commercial.
As you look at the pictures you'll see that i have come up with a lug system that i think works beautifully easy and flexible.
This all came about because as many of you know i have been building a few one off snares and a couple of kits for Jennifer. One of the things i really hated doing was drilling holes into the shells after putting on a beautiful wood veneer. I hated how the lugs and hardware blocked the full view of a beautiful shell finish. So after many months of sleepless nights, and many more coming up with the prototype i was able to not only accomplish the first objective but accomplish the following.
1. a "free floating" system akin to mymi and sleishman but with out all the related extra hardware involved to make their systems work ( and they both work great ) .
2. allow the user to dictate its usage. by that i mean there are many ways that the user can use these lugs , your not limited to what a manufactuer deems as whats is the correct number of lugs
To further explain , think what you could do with a single flange hoop ! you could have your drum tune with as little or as many lugs you want. Wonder what a 12" tom would sound like with 4 lugs or 10 lugs ? Or how about you have this great steambent snare that uses 10 lugs and wonder how different it would as an eight lug snare ! Now with a simple change of hoops you can experiment.
3. as a drum builder how much time and possible heart ache would you save by not having to drill the shells for lugs , let alone keeping that shell solid .

We have so many things planed with just this one simple design but it will just take time to get things out. So far i have 2 machine shop ready to make the parts but there is an 8 week lead in time for one of them. I refuse to have them made overseas while i have local guys that can use the business. I also like the idea of being less than 10 minutes from each of them so should anything arise or on the fly changes need to be made i can hop in the car and not on a plane.

Many of the pictures and the short video contain what was the original design that had the problem of the bottom tension rods backing out under extended heavy playing, that was corrected by eliminating the bottom rod all together.
The new design incorporates a spring on the bottom that keeps the lug from dropping down in the event that a rod does start to detune. The user will know not only by the change in tone ( which is another story all together and just totally goes against the normal school of thought!) but the rod head will elevate up. Since applying these to the drums in the video he has not even had a problem with detuning , and he hits hard !
Also you will notice that we will have floating plates for the snare strainer & butt . These will be seperate from the lugs.

Toward the end of 2011 i am hoping to start offering drum kits made by yours truely but need some input from you guys and gals as to what you would like to see on / off or otherwise from a kit.

If you have any questions please ask !

Gary
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Last edited by gwaco; 01-02-2011 at 08:08 PM.
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Old 01-01-2011, 04:28 AM
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

some more pics including a recent snare built for Jennifers teacher.
and the link for a video/sound clip with the early lugs .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYSxsMB7jGc
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Old 01-02-2011, 03:37 AM
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

I was at Gary's house Tuesday night to check this out and took him my Vaughncraft steam bent snare to put lugs on so I could test the system. When I learn to measure things will be cool. I told him my snare was 6 inches deep and it's 7. So he had lugs made for a 6 not 7. Duh. I was able to play two different drums, snare and tom with the new lugs attached and was quite impressed and how effortless the drum tunes from high to low. I will get my drum back soon and will be able to bring it home and wail away on it. Gary is putting a lot of work into this and I know we all wish him nothing but success. okay. mail me my check now.lol
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Old 01-02-2011, 03:43 AM
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

Most Interesting!
I hope to see them on the market soon.
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Old 01-02-2011, 05:44 PM
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

Assuming that the part identified as (2) on the diagram is to prevent rotation of the shaft, is there anything in place to prevent it from making contact with the shell? I wonder about potential scuffs this may cause?
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Old 01-02-2011, 05:54 PM
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

The pressure on the shell is minimal. I asked the same question the night I was at Gary's house. The lugs turn easily enough as you aren't pushing them into the shell. And they don't rest against the shell when not being turned. I'm Gary will have more to say.
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Old 01-02-2011, 07:03 PM
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

Undrilled shells are the future of drum making, my opinion only.
I'm betting this is going to be a big success. I hope you make a ton of dough and create American jobs too. Big props for not going overseas, much respect.
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Old 01-02-2011, 07:46 PM
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

G.D thanks for covering my back ! I was out really late (for me anways) watching Artimus Pyle play on the kit from the video. Besides his band , he also had his son with him and they set up a second kit and he played along with dad. It was a very cool site to see!
But back to business , GD the checks in the mail ! haha . but the rods should be here by tuesday so i will contact you as soon as they arrive.
I'm real excited about using GD's shell as when we start with making kits i am leaning more toward using solid, steambent or stave shells and using keller (which we know are great shells also) should there be a demand for a lower costing kit.
To answer your question JER , Grunter is correct in that the actual pressure is minimal.
In both Jennifers snare (the natural leapard wood one in the pics) and the red sparkle kit (which is a finish not a wrap) there has not been any type of indents put into the wood, and we've done some real hard cranking on them to make sure they can take it.
I will say that is was a concern in the beginning and we even dipped the ends of the stop in plastic dip because i was worried about that same thing but after feeling how much actual torque is applied it no longer became a concern.
Also as G.D. pointed out once you get your tension set just rotate it back slightly if you don't want it resting on the shell, doing this will not change your tuning. the only time it will change is when the stop makes contact in either direction.
I would also like to state that the stops in the pictures are the same ones used on the bass drum. When i originally had the first stops made i had them made to be able to handle duty on all the drums as i did'nt want to pay additonal set up charges for something i wasn't sure would even work. But now that its been proven to work the snare and tom stop will be alittle smaller.
It was a total surprise to us that no matter how hard we tightened down on the lugs you could still easily rotate the stop back and forth with your finger.
I hope this answers your question but if not let me know!
I would also like to run this idea by you guys and it pertains to the bass drum.
I also had this great brain storm ,that to make our kits alittle different and also to keep with the minimal or no hole shells, i came up with the idea of using a bass drum plate (or cradle if you will ) and eliminate spurs altogether.
I know there are already some cradles out there but so far the ones i have looked at appear to be really heavy and made to fit every application under the sun . I'm thinking more on the lines of a specific plate for each size bass drum in a kit . I've pretty much drafted it out and these are some of the ideas.
1. light weight - aluminum
2. small but stable foot print
3. the contact points with the shell will be rubberized ( i want no transfer of sound )
4. an additional add on for double pedal users so they have a secure mount for the slave pedal.
5. make it so the front of the bass drum can be elevated
So instead of bringing your bass drum it to a gig ,tipping it on its end messing around with the spurs , you literaly put the plate on the ground , attach your pedal to it and just set your bass drum on top . no muss no fuss.
Would something like the sound appealing?

Oh. and while i thinking about it the lugs will come in either a brushed natural finish or one of the 15 colors of powder coat i have so far with more colors to come.
We also have a nice little nylon plug for those that would be retrofitting their kit . It won't vibrate out , can be dyed any color , and requires no additional work to install just push them in and your done.

BOB , me to! Looks like early spring right now but i am hoping sooner ! There is so much more to be done beyond the actual making of the part it just blows my mind some days.
It has been such a daunting task so far. I'm surprised i still have a wife!

Gary

Last edited by gwaco; 01-02-2011 at 07:56 PM. Reason: brain thinking way before the fingers!
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Old 01-02-2011, 07:52 PM
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Undrilled shells are the future of drum making, my opinion only.
I'm betting this is going to be a big success. I hope you make a ton of dough and create American jobs too. Big props for not going overseas, much respect.
Thanks so much Larry ! it means a great deal to me also. It has been a real pleasure working with the locals , just a bunch of hard working people that are excited to help!
If i don't make a ton of dough i hope its enough to get Jennifer to college !
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Old 01-02-2011, 08:32 PM
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

More than answered my question, thanks Gary!

I was also curious as to the amount of tension you are generating and in a way, surprised to find that even with the skins torqued down you can still easily adjust the stop...

There is still a part of me that feels as though the plastic dip or some rubber stoppers would help my concern for any rubbing. I'd probably be pretty anal about making sure they weren't touching the shell at any point, especially before a performance.

As for spurs? The first thing that popped into my head was something similar to your snare and butt plate assemblies, running from one tension rod to the next. Maybe just one on the bottom with legs extending out?



^^^ drawing of the year, my friends.
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Old 01-02-2011, 08:38 PM
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

First up, Gary, huge congratulations on bringing your superb idea to market. I know, only too well, the trials & costs of taking even the most simple of things from conception to reality. Huge kudos for that Gary, & for what it's worth, you have my full support in your venture.

2nd up, Grunt, you'll be sharing that royalty check, lol. Gary has let me in on this development last year. He was obviously wanting to tap into my huge depth of ignorance on the subject!

Now down to business. Gary, as you know, I've done a ton of experimenting myself. I'm going a different, personal route. You're starting a business on the back of a great idea. Two totally different approaches. Your product (because that's what it now is) is right on the money IMO. It's scaleable, & has superb mass market appeal & application. From an engineering standpoint, it couldn't be better. Ultra simple, & simple always wins out.

I like the kick drum station idea, but the sonic benefits would only really come to the fore with thin shells, & were the player wanted to extract maximum sustain/shell involvement. That limits the number of potential users to some degree, as many players muffle their kick drums to some degree, & place projection over shell involvement. It's a great idea, & one that would appeal to me on my thinner shelled kick, but don't find yourself with a great product that solves a problem that doesn't exist. The free floating principal on toms is a no brainer for me, & to a slightly lesser extent, snares, but the kick is a different story. I'd council proceed with caution & put maximum energy into the FF tom/snare program. From a business pov, think in terms of cashflow & resource aportion.

Gary, a quick technical question; are you using the standard tension screw thread pitch? If so, I can see a potential minor issue with the kick drum application if not picked up early. Kick drums tend to be tensioned less than toms. That means there will be less thread retention on a standard pitch. Make sure there's a good amount of thread depth in the lug, & the tension screw runs deep into the lug. This will help prevent detuning issues.

Overall, I think this is a stunning piece of work, & couldn't be happening to a nicer guy than you. You deserve every bit of success coming your way, & I hope the drumming community get behind your system. It's a winner!!!!!!

p.s. Don't think that Youtube clip does your great product any favours. The snare sounds good, but there doesn't seem to be any increase in sustain on the toms, above & beyond what you'd expect from a standard lug tom. In fact, I'd go as far as to say they sound a touch dull. Keep that clip untitled. Later on, a before & after style comparison would go down well. Recorded with high quality gear, take two identical shells (I'd suggest go thin, maybe a build standard such as Keller), with the same bearing edges, & record one with standard lugs, the other with your system. Let players hear the difference in a straight back to back comparison, & you'll win customers.

TTFN, Andy.
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Old 01-02-2011, 11:28 PM
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

I think all of these concepts sound great. Personally, I hope there is some time spent on the bass drum ideas. For someone like myself who will often move a bass drum to 4 or more different venues a week I can't tell you the number of problems I have. In fact it's probably equipment malfunction #1.

Good luck with your overall plan.
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Old 01-03-2011, 01:16 AM
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

Why didn't you just put a clear surgical tube full of compressed CO2 under each hoop and control the tuning with a valve that you squeeze between your teeth?
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...une+your+drums

I'm looking forward to seeing a fuller video demonstration.
I'm still not 100% sure how your tension system works.
I'm an Automotive Tech and I still am not sure of all of the little things from the drawings and pics that you posted.
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Old 01-03-2011, 01:38 AM
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

Oooh, preeety. I love that acrylic snare. I'm gonna guess that's Jennifer's because of the color scheme o the hardware.

I love the concept, it's like a much cleaner Pearl free-floater. So could I theoretically get one set of hardware and change out the shell depending on whatever mood I'm in that week? I love the idea of having a 14x say 7 or 8 and being able to swap from an acrylic to brass to wood shell as the particular sound is needed.

Brilliant, and serious kudos for keeping the manufacturing in the country.
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Old 01-03-2011, 01:59 AM
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

Question Gary....From what I can tell, the lugs aren't anchored to the shell in any way. I've often thought of an equivalent design, but in my mind, if you tighten the batter head, the reso head would be tensioned as well. So,

Are the lugs anchored?
Do both heads get tensioned together?

While your at it, you could design a hoop that would take any amount of your lugs, with a slot all the way around instead of individual holes.
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Old 01-03-2011, 02:31 AM
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

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Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
Why didn't you just put a clear surgical tube full of compressed CO2 under each hoop and control the tuning with a valve that you squeeze between your teeth?
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...une+your+drums

I'm looking forward to seeing a fuller video demonstration.
I'm still not 100% sure how your tension system works.
I'm an Automotive Tech and I still am not sure of all of the little things from the drawings and pics that you posted.
Haha ! I remember that ! A strange idea it was. I wonder if he ever sold any? But with that said , one of the scarest things with this lug was actually posting it here and wondering if i would suffer the same fate ! When i came up with this it made perfect sense, but the reality of it is that if the people that would use it in their craft don't think so then its a mute point.
Thankfully the response has been great! Back a couple of months ago while Jennifer and i were at a drum clinic i was approached by someone that i had no idea who he was, but it turned out that he is the c.e.o. of a known drum company . He had seen the prototype kit (the red one ) and really thought it was a great idea. At some point in the up coming year we are supposed to sit down and have some discussions. So that only fueled fire more !
Bob, If you have ever seen Sleishman drums they operate with the same principal. The biggest differance is that with my lugs you don't need to have all of the extra weight since i have eliminated the need for any type of retaining ring , and the need for bottom tension rods. When you tighten down on the top head you are also tightening the bottom head at the same time. In theory you then have equally tuned heads.
Notice i said in theory because most people end up using different thickness on the resonance versuses the batter side, this is especially true when it comes to the snare. But believe it or not , it still works regardless of differance. Having matching heads would be the perfect senario but we found that its still becomes a totally different drum when compared to the standard lug system.
I hope that helps Bob but if not let me know !
Something else i feel i should bring up that may or maynot matter is that these are being made out of t-6061 aluminum which makes them very strong but yet light. For fun i weighed a standard Ludwig bowtie snare lug and it came in at 2.15 oz while my lug (with spring, washers and clips) weighs a mere .60 oz .
If you are worried about the threads stripping out because they are aluminum don't worry !
We haven't stripped out any and we pretty much have abused the things! Also since they are not attached to the shell they basically self align.

Last edited by gwaco; 01-03-2011 at 04:02 AM.
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Old 01-03-2011, 02:54 AM
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

Thank you, Thats how I thought that it worked.
The wings keep the tube from spinning and both heads tension from the top lug.
What are the shepherds crooks for on the bottom tension rods?
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Old 01-03-2011, 03:25 AM
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Guys before i go any further let me just say that i am deeply humbled by all your support and i mean that from the bottom of my heart ! You people are the greatest !

Andy - You have to know i have the greatest of respect for you and your input is wholly apprecited. You are dead on with the video ! I'll admit that it was a rush job, more like spur of the moment ! Whats worse is that we had an identical tom (different wrap though) racked up next to it and i didn't even exploit the fact! Hell you can even see it in the video!
That being said, there is no doubt that we need to have a more supportive video done before i sell the very first one. Luckily Jennifers teacher also has a small video production company , so i expect to have something top notch !
Also yes they will be standard 12/24 pitch threads as i do not want the user to have to buy new tension rods to be able to use the lugs. I have already addressed the depth with the machine shop and they are going to extend the depth to 1 1/2" from the current 1" .
I am really looking forward to your concept and kit as i have looked at the Guru webpage and they look like FANTASTIC drums ! I actually came up with another idea simply looking at the site !

Jer - I love you ! you just created another brainstorming session ! I now have another prototype to come up with , alittle different than your pic , but it ignited the idea !
Maybe i'll call it the JER-e-RIG !

Matt- Thank you for your support and theres no doubt i will keep working on the " Bass Station " .

Red Menace- Thank you also ! Believe it or not that acrylic drum in the picture is a tom that is a whole different project i have going on ! Don't even get me started on that !

Larry - I'm a little ahead of you on this, but let me throw it out there for you guys. Since i have not been able to find any U.S. manufactuers of hoops , I have been pondering over having my own hoops made for my kits but should there be a demand then it would only make sense to sell them outright.
This will be exactly what you want Larry , a single flange hoop with a shoulder to hide the edge of the drumhead. I guess the best way to explain it is to think of a diecast hoop with out the gussets for the rods. Does that make sense ? I had this idea shortly after i came up with the lugs. I don't know how do able it is but i'm sure gonna find out !
And yes you are correct in that both heads are tightend at the same time as the lugs are not secured to the shell.

Heck by now you guys have a pretty good idea as to what the Wac'd kits are goona look like !

Again thanks for all your support !
Gary

Last edited by gwaco; 01-03-2011 at 04:07 AM.
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Old 01-03-2011, 03:39 AM
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Thank you, Thats how I thought that it worked.
The wings keep the tube from spinning and both heads tension from the top lug.
What are the shepherds crooks for on the bottom tension rods?
Those are there for two reasons.
1. They make for quick assembly/disassembly
2. They are the anchor point that keeps the rod from pulling thru as you tighten the top tension rod.

So really there is no bottom tension rod. The main shaft is turned to a smaller diameter at the bottom. The final measurement on it is 5mm which fits all the washers (plastic or metal ).

They say a pic is worth a thousand words ! Ironically this pic is what the patent attorney had redrawn by his artist as it needed to be line drawn !
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Old 01-03-2011, 04:00 AM
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Ah Huh!!! ..........................
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Old 01-03-2011, 04:08 AM
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Ah Huh!!! ..........................
Man, You had me sweating !
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Old 01-03-2011, 09:24 AM
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Gwaco, sorry if you've already answered this but I've looked this over a couple times and can't find exactly how you tune the reso head...
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Old 01-03-2011, 11:11 AM
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Gwaco, sorry if you've already answered this but I've looked this over a couple times and can't find exactly how you tune the reso head...
Luis, hope you don't mind if I use your question to back up Gary's design principal, & Gary, please feel free to shoot this apart if I'm on the wrong track.

The very idea of a free floating design is to maximise both the sustain from the shell, & it's contribution to the overall sound. When tuning any drum for maximum sustain, you tune the batter & reso heads to exactly the same pitch. This allows both heads to resonate in sympathy with each other, & produces a clear fundamental that is picked up by the shell.

On Gary's design, the batter & reso heads are always tuned the same. If you're the kind of player who'd get benefit from a free floating drum, that's how you'd tune anyhow. Even if you didn't want maximum sustain from your drums (e.g. you use a muffled head type) the principal still has the benefit of greatly enhancing the shell's contribution to the sound. The shell is free to resonate, without being muted by the attachment of hardware. Think of it as a logical extension to the rims principal. If you have an old school drum, with the tom bracket attached to the shell, try this simple test. Hit the drum whilst it's mounted on it's tom holder, then do the same when off it's tom holder & held in your hand by the hoop. You should notice a difference. Now imagine that difference, but multiplied several times over, when you remove all the hardware from the shell. Another home test if you're not convinced, take your heads, hoops, & screws off the drum. Hold the shell between your thumb & finger near the edge, & tap the outside of the shell with your other hand. Now repeat that test with all the lugs off the shell, & hear that shell sing.

Hope this helps a bit, Andy.

P.S. Gary, good move on the extra thread depth for the kick lugs. With low head tensions, that will certainly help with tuning retention.
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Old 01-03-2011, 12:37 PM
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

i would love to sit behind a kit with this lug system! as a drum builder myself, seeing these get put on the market could be a very exciting thing
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Old 01-03-2011, 12:39 PM
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bobdadruma bobdadruma is offline
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

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Man, You had me sweating !
Why would you be worried about what I thought?

You have designed and tested a product.
You obtained a patent.
You have shown us a video of the product in action and it was obvious that the drums sounded good in the video.
You answered all of our questions.
You answered mine and I now understand.
A long time board member is going to use the lugs on one of his snare drums.
You are a board member who has contributed many posts here.

You are not a one time poster who is spamming us and giving us vague information
about an ill conceived idea that doesn't work.

I was joking when I posted the Drum Tone thread link.
I hope that you didn't get the wrong idea.
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Old 01-03-2011, 06:38 PM
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

Gary...As I've said before, I've thought about an equivalent design to what you've got, but the fact that you can't individually tighten the heads to different tensions....that's why I stopped thinking about this design. I tune my toms so that the reso head is a full octave above the batter head. From what I am seeing, this can't be accomplished with your lugs. That fact would prevent me from buying this system. I am just being honest, calling it how I see it. I know you've really put in the blood sweat and tears, and I apologize for highlighting issues, but if I don't someone else will. I have a feeling that a great proportion of prospective buyers may want the different tension capability, I know I would. That's my biggest stumbling point. How would you respond to these concerns?

Also, in the case of snares, the thinner reso head would stretch more than the batter head, resulting in a higher tension on the reso compared to the batter (if my logic is correct). Is this the case? Same issue w/ 2 ply batters and single ply resos I would guess.

Can you explain to me something that will disspell any doubts?
Again I apologize for the challenges.
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Old 01-03-2011, 09:44 PM
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

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Gary...As I've said before, I've thought about an equivalent design to what you've got, but the fact that you can't individually tighten the heads to different tensions....that's why I stopped thinking about this design. I tune my toms so that the reso head is a full octave above the batter head. From what I am seeing, this can't be accomplished with your lugs. That fact would prevent me from buying this system. I am just being honest, calling it how I see it. I know you've really put in the blood sweat and tears, and I apologize for highlighting issues, but if I don't someone else will. I have a feeling that a great proportion of prospective buyers may want the different tension capability, I know I would. That's my biggest stumbling point. How would you respond to these concerns?
Curious of this too Larry, I spent some time looking at other similar designs. I found most just don't take this into consideration, and those that do, (imo), somewhat defeat the purpose by having a pre-tensiond snare side before the shell is even added to the equation. For what the video is worth that Gary posted, they sound like I'd at least be open to the concept of checking it out.


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Jer - I love you ! you just created another brainstorming session ! I now have another prototype to come up with , alittle different than your pic , but it ignited the idea !
Maybe i'll call it the JER-e-RIG !
Ha! Glad to inspire. While trying to work out a way to retract the legs on my first idea, I thought of this too, allowing for more traditional spurs to be used:



Also, notched kick drum hoops (for the claws to sit in) to ensure equal distance from each other?

Last edited by jer; 01-03-2011 at 10:01 PM.
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  #28  
Old 01-07-2011, 02:37 AM
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

Larry , Thanks for being honest ! I know that these lugs or method of tuning will not apeal to everyone. In fact had the roles been reversed i would be skepical too! No worrys here.
But to address your concerns ,do you not tune your snare side head tighter than your batterhead anyways ? So yes your logic is 100% dead on , but its something you do anyways.
So far we have used different thicknesses on the toms and the result has been the same. When we start filming some videos we will be doing a lot of different combinations of heads and thicknesses and doing the same with an equivalent standard lugged tom and snare. A couple of the things that were first noticed on the red kit in the videos/and pics was the increased dynamic range and the absence of annoying overtones.
Plus there is the ease of tuning the drum. As G.D. had eluded to , when you start tuning the drum you find that the tension across the head becomes nearly identical at all the tension points even when the lugs are not tensioned evenly.
Larry its MY job to prove to you that it works and in due time i hope that i am able to do that !
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Gary...As I've said before, I've thought about an equivalent design to what you've got, but the fact that you can't individually tighten the heads to different tensions....that's why I stopped thinking about this design. I tune my toms so that the reso head is a full octave above the batter head. From what I am seeing, this can't be accomplished with your lugs. That fact would prevent me from buying this system. I am just being honest, calling it how I see it. I know you've really put in the blood sweat and tears, and I apologize for highlighting issues, but if I don't someone else will. I have a feeling that a great proportion of prospective buyers may want the different tension capability, I know I would. That's my biggest stumbling point. How would you respond to these concerns?

Also, in the case of snares, the thinner reso head would stretch more than the batter head, resulting in a higher tension on the reso compared to the batter (if my logic is correct). Is this the case? Same issue w/ 2 ply batters and single ply resos I would guess.

Can you explain to me something that will disspell any doubts?
Again I apologize for the challenges.
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  #29  
Old 01-08-2011, 12:42 AM
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

I met Gary Wednesday night and got my Steambent snare back and I have to tell you the drum sounds great. I normally like my snare side head tight and my batter heads very close to tight also. I sat down and played the drum at the music store and it sounded ok but I told Gary that the room there was huge with a very high ceiling, and I would wait until I got it back home to my drum room to determine it's true sound. Well I have to tell you I was surprised. It sounds the same now as it did before removing the tube lugs and putting on the Wac'd lugs. I could then turn one lug only and de-tune the drum to a lower, fatter sound and again it was fine. The tone at each lug was the same or very very close when tapped abut an inch away with a stick. At this point I am completely satisfied. I will make one more test, and that is to add a die cast hoop to the batter, and see if it sounds OK at that point. I will post my further findings on this post.
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Old 03-20-2011, 03:12 AM
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

Just a small update, but first I want to thank everyone that gives Jennifer support and helpful criticism.

As far as what is happening with me and Wac'd Drums , I have been having quite a few ups and downs over the last two months. My enthusiasm is still running high but some reality has hit. The investor and partner I had needed to back out due to his immediate work obligations. So that meant I also lost my start up capitol.But I still have managed to get a number of snare sets out to some members here for their feedback and results.

So once again I am behind the barrel so to speak on getting things fully operational, but in due time I'm sure it will happen. I actually have a meeting next week with another possible investor, so wish me luck.

In the mean time I have been very busy continually taking things from the drawing board and getting them into the prototype stage. The Bass Station has gone from drawings to being roadtested as we speak. The results have been nothing short of spectacular. I will get more indepth with it once we get some road time in with it. Also the prototype tom holder that will work with the lugs is proving to be a great addition to the lugs.

I invite everyone here to check out my Facebook page and look under the product photos and take a look , and while your there hit me up ! I would love for everyone on this board to follow me along with this.
http://www.facebook.com/#!/

More to come...
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  #31  
Old 03-20-2011, 03:20 AM
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

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Just a small update, but first I want to thank everyone that gives Jennifer support and helpful criticism.

As far as what is happening with me and Wac'd Drums , I have been having quite a few ups and downs over the last two months. My enthusiasm is still running high but some reality has hit. The investor and partner I had needed to back out due to his immediate work obligations. So that meant I also lost my start up capitol.But I still have managed to get a number of snare sets out to some members here for their feedback and results.

So once again I am behind the barrel so to speak on getting things fully operational, but in due time I'm sure it will happen. I actually have a meeting next week with another possible investor, so wish me luck.

In the mean time I have been very busy continually taking things from the drawing board and getting them into the prototype stage. The Bass Station has gone from drawings to being roadtested as we speak. The results have been nothing short of spectacular. I will get more indepth with it once we get some road time in with it. Also the prototype tom holder that will work with the lugs is proving to be a great addition to the lugs.

I invite everyone here to check out my Facebook page and look under the product photos and take a look , and while your there hit me up ! I would love for everyone on this board to follow me along with this.
http://www.facebook.com/#!/

More to come...
Let me tell you, I want some of these lugs! They look fantastic! And your link to your facebook page is broken, just thought I'd let you know.
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  #32  
Old 03-20-2011, 04:58 AM
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

I spoke with the Main Wacko and little Miss Wacko at a drum Clinic last night and he showed me some photos of his latest efforts and I have to say I am impressed. He is so close to offering a complete lug, tom, bass drum system. I have tested the lugs on my 7.5 inch drum and will now try on the 5.5 I have. In my last post I mentioned trying the lugs with a die cast hoop as well and did, but I really didn't notice too much difference between that and the triple flange hoops. I'm sure down the road Gary will have his own hoops to go along with lugs, tom mounts, and the bass drum cradle.
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  #33  
Old 03-20-2011, 05:06 AM
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

Thanks Luke , I will get that fixed !

It was great to see you again John! Thanks for the vote of confidence, much appreciated!
Heck of a clinic wasn't it ?

edit; Luke I just tried it again and it worked, but I'm not sure if it links it because its on my computer or not!

edit , edit : O.k. try this and let me know if it links - http://www.facebook.com/people/Wacd-...00002092039436
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  #34  
Old 03-21-2011, 06:15 AM
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

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Thanks Luke , I will get that fixed !

It was great to see you again John! Thanks for the vote of confidence, much appreciated!
Heck of a clinic wasn't it ?

edit; Luke I just tried it again and it worked, but I'm not sure if it links it because its on my computer or not!

edit , edit : O.k. try this and let me know if it links - http://www.facebook.com/people/Wacd-...00002092039436
That link works for me, I just added you! I think you have the perfect solution for my current setup, I've got a set of carbon fiber tubs made by Monolith, back when they were still around. I want a free-floating lug setup on my toms, and I think yours are brilliant!
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  #35  
Old 03-23-2011, 02:50 AM
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

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That link works for me, I just added you! I think you have the perfect solution for my current setup, I've got a set of carbon fiber tubs made by Monolith, back when they were still around. I want a free-floating lug setup on my toms, and I think yours are brilliant!
Luke , I got your add, Thanks ! As I had said in my previous post I would be having a meeting with another investor and that meeting was today.

I'm happy to report that it went very well and as soon as we get all the i's dotted and the t's crossed we will be well on our way to getting things moving at a pretty good pace. The partnership is with one of the machineshops that has been making some of my parts already so he is already familiar with everything. I will keep you posted and hopefully those interested in the lugs will be able to purchase them very soon !

Thanks
Gary
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  #36  
Old 03-23-2011, 08:31 PM
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

The lug system is aesthetically nice and clean, but I am very curious how well people like drums that don't allow independent tuning top to bottom. Independent tuning of each head is critical for getting versatility from a drum.

In any case, I wish the best of success for you.
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  #37  
Old 03-23-2011, 09:03 PM
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

I like my snares cranked top and bottom and with these lugs it is possible. Remember one thing. The typical snare side head is only 3 mil thick while most batters are 7, 10, 12 or more. The snare side or reso head will tend to tighten faster than the batter and for me this works fine. Also most people use thinner resos on their toms than they do batters so the same effect applies. Even if you want to tune both heads to the same pitch it can be done. Because of the lug mechanics, if you wish to detune your snare from crack to thud you can do it with one lug. I have done this on three drums. Hip hop sound to old Billy Joel fat snare in seconds and the other parts of the head will stay in tune. You can tap at each lug and get the same tone. I will be glad to make another video to show how this works.
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Old 03-23-2011, 09:18 PM
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

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I will be glad to make another video to show how this works.
I would very much appreciate that GD. I've never played on a free floating snare so I'm fascinated as to how this works.
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  #39  
Old 03-24-2011, 02:45 AM
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

I have the drum apart right now but will get it back together in a day or two and film a bit. Actually video, I have no film. How old am I? Wow.
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  #40  
Old 03-26-2011, 12:40 AM
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Default Re: Update on Wac'd Drums

this is not the best video. A little grainy and the sound waivers but I think you will get the idea that these lugs will allow you to change the tune of your drums by turning one lug and keeping the entire drum head in tune. Each tap at the lugs will produce the same tone. I missed a few taps and hit closer to the rim but you can hear the tones. The sound is from a small camera, but if you listen closely you can hear the high pitched sound after the sticks hit the drum. I wish I had better equipment for Gary's sake. Anyway here is the video link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtK0fEiLbCs
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