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  #1  
Old 07-24-2010, 08:00 PM
Cringe Cringe is offline
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Default The Bassdrum Balloon Effect

Hi Guys,

Has anyone here experienced this phenomena ? Where you hit your bassdrum and it has this balloony bouncing basketball sound ?

I bought a new EMAD1 for my mahogany bassdrum the other day, and was having trouble getting some boom with the bassdrum, so after reading forums and the net, I decided to try removing my pillow from inside the drum, and there it was, this obnoxious bouncing balloony sound.

Being frustrated, I decided to take my drum into the local music store, In the store, the guys tuned the drum completely empty , and it sounded quite great, warmish open boomy yet controlled, I thought great, thanked them and took the drum home.

Placed the drum in my house, hit the kick..... BALLOON !!!!

I eventually just settled for placing an EQ pad inside, and realised that In my house, a nice warm boom seems to be unobtainable.

Anyone know the science behind this ? or why this thing happens ?

I thought it might be interesting to see if anyone has any thoughts or opnions on this subject

Cheers

P.S. If your insterested this is my drumkit/room

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/s...d=1#post724908
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  #2  
Old 07-24-2010, 08:18 PM
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KarlCrafton KarlCrafton is offline
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Default Re: The Bassdrum Balloon Effect

It's those heads ( pre-muffed/ringed) on some drums, and how you play the bass drum too.

Try putting something in the shell, but not touching either head.

That should stop the sound bouncing around that's getting you the "inside a basketball" sound, and it should retain the full sound you like (because it's not dampening the head).

I use Polyfoam inside all my bass drums, just at the bottom of the shell and works great.
It's a sound absorbing type foam.

I attached it with small pieces of strapping tape so it never moves (and I don't have to mess with it).

Good luck!
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  #3  
Old 07-24-2010, 08:40 PM
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Mikey Dangerous Mikey Dangerous is offline
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Default Re: The Bassdrum Balloon Effect

I've never experienced, or even heard of this "balloon effect" you speak of, but looking at the pic of your set-up I would guess it has something to do with the fact that your bass drum is facing and placed right up near the wall (and an outdoor wall as well which could be even worse) as well as a corner. It also appears that the room they're in is pretty small and I would think that makes it worse still. Not an expert on this, but these are my initial thoughts and I'd be surprised if I was wrong. Other things to consider are the possibility of the drum being out-of-round (not likely though), a bum head, or tuning.

On a side note, I'd remove those tape pads that you're using to muffle/dampen your snare drum. You shoud really use o-rings instead if you want to dampen the snare. Remo and Evans ones are available at any music store and are dirt cheap. Personally I prefer the Yamaha ones because they're the smallest in terms of width. Don't think they actually sell them the way Remo and Evans do, but they include them with their snares if you buy one. If your music store deals Yamaha, they will likely have some extras available and will probably just give one to you. I think o-rings work better and they definitely look a lot better/cleaner/more professional. Plus you will avoid the possibility of getting glue on your sticks and gunking up your cymbals and stuff. Just my humble opinion.

Nice looking kit though!
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Old 07-24-2010, 08:52 PM
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larryace larryace is offline
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Default Re: The Bassdrum Balloon Effect

It sounds like your batter head is too tight.

Also, when you play a bass drum in a room filled with other drum kits you aren't getting a true picture of what your bass drum sounds like by itself because of all the sympathetic vibrations coming from the other kits. They definitely do affect what you hear. If there were a lot of kits set up in your local music store, then I think it is a combination of 3 things: Not getting a true picture of your real sound in the music store, plus your drum room at home may be prone to those frequencies, and more importantly the tuning of the drum itself. Different tuning really should do the trick, any bass drum I've had could sound boingy if I tuned it that way. Try a tightish reso tuning and tension the batter to just above wrinkle and if that doesn't do it, hang some blankets up. If you are still boingy then I'm out of ideas lol. Again, I think your batter may be too tight.
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  #5  
Old 07-25-2010, 09:17 AM
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Chonson Chonson is offline
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Default Re: The Bassdrum Balloon Effect

Have you tried moving the drum in the room? Possibly there's some strange combo of destructive & constructive interference making that frequency range more audible.
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Old 07-25-2010, 09:39 AM
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Nodiggie Nodiggie is offline
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Default Re: The Bassdrum Balloon Effect

I agree with turning the kit around facing away from the corner. If you know a little about sound waves, what you are probably hearing are all those low freq. bass notes reflecting off the wall, You have to give them some room or distance to develop or image properly.
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  #7  
Old 07-25-2010, 03:08 PM
Cringe Cringe is offline
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Default Re: The Bassdrum Balloon Effect

thanks for all the replies and suggestions guys !! :)

Karl thanks for the suggestion mate! I currently have an EQ pad inside there atm, its taken alot of that Bouncy sound away, at the expense of not having any boom of course :P I think im going to be experimenting with different heads and muffling for quite some time before I find a winning combo for that room at least !

Mike I 100% agree with you about the room, I've tryed turning the kit around facing away from that wall, and I did notice a slight improvement, but not a whole lot, Which leads me to think that its just infact completely all about the acoustics in this room. It really is very small, with a kind of large window and an office desk and e-kit all crammed into the one small room. Like I stated in the original post, My bassdrum did sound great in the music store ! gotta be the room. Also thanks for your comments about the snare tape, ill get right on it ! :)

Larry thanks for the great suggestions mate ! I infact have tryed tuning the batter head quite low, and the reso is mediumly tensioned, but nup, still boingy. I also tryed placing a blanket on the wall directly infront of the bassdrum and found again a slight improvement, but not a whole lot, im actually considering picking up some acoustic foam but because the room is so small im not sure how much of an improvement I would get placing it all around the walls.

chonson and nodiggie, again I completely agree with your comments, infact I think its a case of numerous factors all influencing the weird sound im getting.

Size of the room, Window, Reflective surfaces, drum placement, possibly tuning aswell.

So what do you guys think, is it worth me investing in some acoustic foam for the walls ? or should I just try to live with a very muffled bassdrum ?
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  #8  
Old 07-27-2010, 04:22 PM
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KarlCrafton KarlCrafton is offline
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Default Re: The Bassdrum Balloon Effect

Looking at your pics (awesome kit all around!), once you are ready for a new kick head, I'd try a Coated PS3, and an Aquarian patch, or a piece of old head taped to the beater spot.
Also the felt side will get less high end in the sound.

The Coated PS3 has a warmer, fatter sound, with less "poing" to it to my ears.

Another good sounding muffled head is the frosted EQ1 from Evans.
It's got the dry vents and it's a pretty fat sounding head all around, even without the extra ring.

Every one had great suggestions about the room, but with it being small, a desk, big window....all that's fighting against you getting a great kick sound!! I suggest you blow up the room and put in some maple flooring, wood walls, and acoustic panneling...hahaha!
JK

The beaters on the felt side should help a lot, and a less "clicky" beater patch will help too.

Again, great kit!

Good luck!
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