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  #1  
Old 07-22-2010, 10:54 PM
jdrummys jdrummys is offline
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Default Live Unmiked Head Advice

I am looking for a new set of batter heads for my RMVs. Right now I have a relatively new EC Resos on, and the EC2 batters are pretty worn out. Really, I never thought they cut well enough live. I am thinking possibly G Plus clears or EC1 clears- maybe G1s but they are not as durable Im guessing. I need something thats going to project well in an unmiked rock situation.
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Old 07-23-2010, 05:24 AM
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Nodiggie Nodiggie is offline
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Default Re: Live Unmiked Head Advice

I think the EC1 would sound very good. You may not get as much life out of them as the two ply head but would certainly sound louder with more sustain as the EC2. I played a set of RMVs a while back, great sounding drums.
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Old 07-23-2010, 08:10 AM
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Winston_Wolf Winston_Wolf is offline
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Default Re: Live Unmiked Head Advice

The G2 is probably what you're looking for. Less controlled sounding than the EC2's, which should translate to more projection, but should give good tone, pair well with the EC resos, and have a pretty long life.
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Old 07-23-2010, 03:50 PM
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Default Re: Live Unmiked Head Advice

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Originally Posted by Nodiggie View Post
I think the EC1 would sound very good. You may not get as much life out of them as the two ply head but would certainly sound louder with more sustain as the EC2. I played a set of RMVs a while back, great sounding drums.
Not so sure Nodiggie. I put a set of EC1's on my toms a while back. Big mistake from a sustain POV, big mistake from a projection POV, & a huge mistake from a recording POV. For good tone, sustain, projection, & durability, I don't think you can beat G2's over G1's. I'm using G+'s over G1's as a test for the next few gigs. I'm liking the little extra sustain I'm getting, but I'm not able to testify as to the durability yet. I suspect the G2's will win in that department.

Anyhow jdrummys. This clip is G+ batters, G2's are very similar. Both over G1's. Tell me what you think.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyWG-...eature=related

P.S, don't be frightened by sustain live. In highly amplified music, you want as much as you can get. All but the first half second disappears from the mix anyhow.
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Old 07-23-2010, 07:09 PM
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Default Re: Live Unmiked Head Advice

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
Not so sure Nodiggie. I put a set of EC1's on my toms a while back. Big mistake from a sustain POV, big mistake from a projection POV, & a huge mistake from a recording POV. For good tone, sustain, projection, & durability, I don't think you can beat G2's over G1's. I'm using G+'s over G1's as a test for the next few gigs. I'm liking the little extra sustain I'm getting, but I'm not able to testify as to the durability yet. I suspect the G2's will win in that department.

Anyhow jdrummys. This clip is G+ batters, G2's are very similar. Both over G1's. Tell me what you think.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyWG-...eature=related

P.S, don't be frightened by sustain live. In highly amplified music, you want as much as you can get. All but the first half second disappears from the mix anyhow.
^ I don't think he's "afraid of sustain" given that he's asking for just that.

That said, my experience is quite the opposite from yours.

My kid plays loud rock, almost always unmiked. Switching to the EC1s was the best move ever. Most sustain of any head we have tried, very punchy, lots of projection, tone that reaches the audience. (Not the tone that I happen to prefer, but I'm a coated amb kind of guy anyway. Perfect for his music, though.)

In my experience 2-ply heads have significantly less sustain than the EC1s. And I don't find G-plus batters to be terribly similar to G2s. Don't know what's going on there!

Durability: the kid is one of the hardest hitters I've ever seen, no problem. He doesn't even dent heads, much less break them. I'm inclined to believe (in the absence of scientific tests and not accounting for gorillas on the drums) that "durability" has more to do with having good hands, proper stick angles, and the avoidance of ball-tipped sticks than it has to do with number of plies.

To the OP: why not try a couple of options on just one drum, say a 12" tom? That way you can see if you like a given model without spending a fortune on a whole kit of them.

Meanwhile, my suggestion for max sustain and projection would be EC1s over G-pluses as resos. I use the G-pluses as resos on a couple of his toms to better match the sustain among the drums. The EC-resos might be a little dark sounding with EC1s on top.

It is critical that you match the pitch of the batter and reso. I mean really match it. The better you get this the more sustain you'll get.

I would also tune all toms where they want to be tuned, smack in their sweet spots. Go outside of this zone and the sustain goes bye-bye.
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  #6  
Old 07-23-2010, 07:59 PM
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Default Re: Live Unmiked Head Advice

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Originally Posted by drumtechdad View Post
^ I don't think he's "afraid of sustain" given that he's asking for just that.

That said, my experience is quite the opposite from yours.

My kid plays loud rock, almost always unmiked. Switching to the EC1s was the best move ever. Most sustain of any head we have tried, very punchy, lots of projection, tone that reaches the audience. (Not the tone that I happen to prefer, but I'm a coated amb kind of guy anyway. Perfect for his music, though.)

In my experience 2-ply heads have significantly less sustain than the EC1s. And I don't find G-plus batters to be terribly similar to G2s. Don't know what's going on there!

Durability: the kid is one of the hardest hitters I've ever seen, no problem. He doesn't even dent heads, much less break them. I'm inclined to believe (in the absence of scientific tests and not accounting for gorillas on the drums) that "durability" has more to do with having good hands, proper stick angles, and the avoidance of ball-tipped sticks than it has to do with number of plies.

To the OP: why not try a couple of options on just one drum, say a 12" tom? That way you can see if you like a given model without spending a fortune on a whole kit of them.

Meanwhile, my suggestion for max sustain and projection would be EC1s over G-pluses as resos. I use the G-pluses as resos on a couple of his toms to better match the sustain among the drums. The EC-resos might be a little dark sounding with EC1s on top.

It is critical that you match the pitch of the batter and reso. I mean really match it. The better you get this the more sustain you'll get.

I would also tune all toms where they want to be tuned, smack in their sweet spots. Go outside of this zone and the sustain goes bye-bye.
I found the EC1's lost their tone quite quickly. On the difference between G2's & G+'s (at least as batters), my drums produce a not too dissimilar result from both heads. The playing feel is different for sure, but the sustain is similar. The G2's are a bit brighter with a touch more attack than the G+'s, but in the overall environment of amplified music, a very similar out front result. My drums are very resonant anyhow. I always tune to the natural shell sweet spot, & my batters & resos are tuned exactly the same.

An interesting little snippet. I compared two Keller shells of identical size last week. My Spauns have a double 45 bearing edge but the head contact peak is towards the inside of the shell. The other Keller shell was also a double 45 but equispaced across the shell depth. A small difference you would think, but the Spaun offered around 30% extra sustain.
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