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  #1  
Old 07-14-2010, 02:51 AM
wcx08 wcx08 is offline
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Default Supraphonic 402 Replacement Lugs

I have a 14" diameter by 6.5" depth Ludwig Supraphonic 402 snare drum. I love the drum but I've never been too crazy about the lugs. I am looking to replace the lugs with matching chrome tube lugs. However, I'm unsure of what size lugs or screws to get. I'm looking at this site at the moment:

http://www.drumfactorydirect.com/ind...x&cPath=6_9_10

Particularly:

http://www.drumfactorydirect.com/ind...oducts_id=1906

The current lugs on the 402 are approximately 2.75 inches long from top to bottom. How am I to know what size lugs and screws to purchase for this drum? Can I use the screws/washers that are already on the drum?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.
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  #2  
Old 07-14-2010, 03:03 AM
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Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
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Default Re: Supraphonic 402 Replacement Lugs

What lugs are on it now....I'm assuming Imperial?

Take an existing lug off....measure the distance between the screw holes in the shell....make sure the distance is the same on the tube lugs you're about to order. Or, you can always order Ludwig tube lugs through a Luddy dealer....then you can be assured they'll fit.

I'm only guessing with respect to the tension screws (I've never swapped them out myself), but they should fit into the replacement tube lugs. Most of the tension screws I've seen are pretty generic i.e. they can be swapped easily between drums of different brands.
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:13 PM
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Default Re: Supraphonic 402 Replacement Lugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by wcx08 View Post
I have a 14" diameter by 6.5" depth Ludwig Supraphonic 402 snare drum. I love the drum but I've never been too crazy about the lugs. I am looking to replace the lugs with matching chrome tube lugs. However, I'm unsure of what size lugs or screws to get. I'm looking at this site at the moment:

http://www.drumfactorydirect.com/ind...x&cPath=6_9_10

Particularly:

http://www.drumfactorydirect.com/ind...oducts_id=1906

The current lugs on the 402 are approximately 2.75 inches long from top to bottom. How am I to know what size lugs and screws to purchase for this drum? Can I use the screws/washers that are already on the drum?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.



When you buy new lugs, they come with screws.

Precision Drum has tube lugs that' ll fit your LUDWIG.


Call em, they'll set up up with the lugs that fit. LUDWIG 400 series is so common everyone stocks replacement lugs for them.
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Old 07-14-2010, 08:03 PM
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KarlCrafton KarlCrafton is offline
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Default Re: Supraphonic 402 Replacement Lugs

If you want to replace the lugs, use Ludwig's Tube Lugs.

They are better than the generic offering in a couple of ways. The Ludwig screws are better, the tubes are better...a beefier constructed lug all around. The metal cups are beefier too, compared to the tiny cheap-o cups on the generic lugs.

A/B'ing them to the generics, IMO, it's worth the couple extra bucks for the Lud's on the project.

The part you want is:

P-2253-E

Each will come with screws, gaskets etc...

Tube lugs on a 402 look great. I put them (& a P-86 Millennium strainer) on a 1964 400 shell I just got.

I'm also putting tubes on my 100th Anniversary 402 (P-86 also). I like the Imp lugs, but the tubes look cool.
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Old 07-14-2010, 11:23 PM
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Default Re: Supraphonic 402 Replacement Lugs

use Ludwig's Tube Lugs. They are better than the generic offering in a couple of ways.

I've actually had more LUDWIG tube lugs spin on me than generics.

If you've never used tube lugs, keep in mind they don't hold tuning worth a shit and you need to take extra caution to prevent cross threading. Tube lugs were first, they invented the lug nut for a reason. Tubes have a 'look', but to me they aint worth it.
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Old 07-15-2010, 12:45 AM
wcx08 wcx08 is offline
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Default Re: Supraphonic 402 Replacement Lugs

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Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post
If you've never used tube lugs, keep in mind they don't hold tuning worth a shit and you need to take extra caution to prevent cross threading. Tube lugs were first, they invented the lug nut for a reason. Tubes have a 'look', but to me they aint worth it.
I have a Pearl Masters Custom maple limited edition snare that came with tube lugs, and it's 7.5 inches deep and it's never had a tuning problem, nor has it gone out of tune while playing or after prolonged playing. I'm not so worried about that.

KarlCrafton...Thank you very much for that response it was very helpful...Exactly what I was looking for.

Besides the tube and imperial lugs, what other options/choices does Ludwig offer as far as lugs go? Is it possible to get the classic lugs that they put on their toms and bass shells on a metal snare like that? I don't know what my problem is but the imperial lugs on my 402 just look so ugly to me...They look like a lighting fixture in a cheap motel.
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Old 07-15-2010, 12:56 AM
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Default Re: Supraphonic 402 Replacement Lugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by wcx08 View Post
Besides the tube and imperial lugs, what other options/choices does Ludwig offer as far as lugs go?
Imperial, Tube, Bowtie, Classic: http://www.ludwig-drums.com/pdf/av1453.pdf.

No idea if Classic's fit on a supra.....never seen it done.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wcx08 View Post
I don't know what my problem is but the imperial lugs on my 402 just look so ugly to me...They look like a lighting fixture in a cheap motel.
Blasphemer!!

:-)
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Old 07-15-2010, 01:03 AM
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Default Re: Supraphonic 402 Replacement Lugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by wcx08 View Post
I have a 14" diameter by 6.5" depth Ludwig Supraphonic 402 snare drum. I love the drum but I've never been too crazy about the lugs. I am looking to replace the lugs with matching chrome tube lugs. However, I'm unsure of what size lugs or screws to get. I'm looking at this site at the moment:

http://www.drumfactorydirect.com/ind...x&cPath=6_9_10

Particularly:

http://www.drumfactorydirect.com/ind...oducts_id=1906

The current lugs on the 402 are approximately 2.75 inches long from top to bottom. How am I to know what size lugs and screws to purchase for this drum? Can I use the screws/washers that are already on the drum?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Funny, I have been looking to do the same thing with a Craviotto Unlimited snare that I picked up for a song. I almost didn't buy it because of the lugs.
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Old 07-15-2010, 04:58 AM
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Default Re: Supraphonic 402 Replacement Lugs

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Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post

I've actually had more LUDWIG tube lugs spin on me than generics.

If you've never used tube lugs, keep in mind they don't hold tuning worth a shit and you need to take extra caution to prevent cross threading.
Haven't had any problems with the tube lugs, and mine all hold tuning great.
Got the first snare with them in '99 or '00, & I have 4 snares with them.

Maybe I'm just extra lucky.....
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Old 07-15-2010, 08:06 AM
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Default Re: Supraphonic 402 Replacement Lugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlCrafton View Post
Haven't had any problems with the tube lugs, and mine all hold tuning great.
Got the first snare with them in '99 or '00, & I have 4 snares with them.

Maybe I'm just extra lucky.....

LUDWIG's do come with heavy lug splay, that'll actually help with preventing detuning on tube lugs (stress on the tension rods). Not lubing the rods (slight corrosion set in) will also help. Drums more 'in-line' (custom) are horrible holding tuning, you need TIGHT SCREWS

Every tube lug drum I've had/played didn't hold tuning worth a crap, rim shots accelerated the problem.

What I meant by 'spin' is the actual (threaded) tube of the lug spinning when you apply tension, I've found the LUDWIG's 'cheap like that'.

Last edited by Les Ismore; 07-15-2010 at 08:19 AM.
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  #11  
Old 07-15-2010, 10:00 PM
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KarlCrafton KarlCrafton is offline
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Default Re: Supraphonic 402 Replacement Lugs

...Must just be lucky then (or, not have a curse on me ;-P).

None of my lugs have had the threaded section spin out/separate from the tube.

I agree that it's a GREAT idea to not just slam through putting rods in when changing a head. Good way to ruin your lugs.

What's this "splay" you've talked about in other threads?
The small gap between the bead and the Imperial lug center cut?

Yeah...I guess it's kinda cheesy, but I've never been bothered by it.
It's been that way for as long as I can remember, so I guess I never thought about it.

I don't have an old "good one" to compare too.
My '75 Acro lugs are tight to the shell though, and I think the lugs to the 09 6.5 Acro are too.

I go for the sound of something (and mine all sound pretty f*king good ) and if I'm going to use it, not by how priceless it looks. Don't get me wrong, I like stuff to look great too, but if something isn't "perfect" it doesn't bug me that much.

I'd agree that the stuff produced in the 80's/90's (after B2 was pretty much out of the picture) probably wasn't the quality of the older stuff when "the family" owned it, but I haven't had any quality problems with anything I've gotten form the Acrolite in 1975, or the brand new kit I bought in 1989 (Super Classics).

80's/90's is a pretty big span of time, where all the other companies steam rolled over them, but that was the fault of the parent company not giving a crap.

IF I had problems, I'd obviously be playing something else, as would anyone.
I AM aware that there are other high quality drum companies out there hahahaha!

All I know is, I never have to worry about anything other than setting up and playing on a gig with the kits I have.
And EVERY drum, no matter what shell comp, sounds like it's supposed to go together.

The "new batch" of guy's running things seem to really have their shit together, so hopefully things will just keep getting better and better.
It's also not too easy to clean up someone elses "mess", so the fact that they are getting into new shells, and bearing edges and things like that is cool.

I have had to re-think my "the new one's sound JUST LIKE the old one's" though.

I got a 1964 400 shell about a month or so ago, and THAT shell sounds AMAZING.
Someone said after Conn bought them, the zinc content went up or something?.....

My 2009 402 sounds GREAT, and "like it's supposed too", but A/B'd next to a 60's?
There would probably be a little extra something special about the 60's shell.

I still think $700+ for a 70's 402 is kinda insane....but, if you're going for "a sound" and you're going to spend that much or more on a new drum, I guess what's the difference?
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  #12  
Old 07-16-2010, 11:17 PM
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Default Re: Supraphonic 402 Replacement Lugs

What's this "splay" you've talked about in other threads,
the small gap between the bead and the Imperial lug center cut?


The more precise the line-up between hoop and lug, the more tube lugs are prone to detuning.

Since the tube lug is minus a lug nut that can swivel, you can expect cross threading if the rod doesn't go in straight, which will actually help with preventing detuning.

I use TIGHT SCREWS on all my tube lugs, they put an extra grip on, and that's when the tubes 'spin'.

Last edited by Les Ismore; 07-20-2010 at 04:39 AM.
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  #13  
Old 07-16-2010, 11:59 PM
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Jeremy Bender Jeremy Bender is offline
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Default Re: Supraphonic 402 Replacement Lugs

Hi I just saw your post and thought I'd tell you that I've just received a brand new factory fresh LM402T (Supraphonic with tube lugs). I also added a P86 (Millenium strainer), that I purchased from the same place- Interstate Music. Tuning it is a breeze!

Anyways....congrats on the great drum and here's a link to how they look brand new with the tube lugs. Enjoy!

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/a...1&d=1278952696
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