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  #1  
Old 02-14-2010, 10:38 PM
sonorplayer sonorplayer is offline
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Default Triggers......and Lars Ulrich

Hey,

I read an interview where Lars Ulrich said he doesn't use triggers. I seen the band live last summer and I've been watching their new live DVDs.

At first, I was like WOW Lars is getting his footwork back in shape. Sounded like the Lars I liked in the 80s. But then during one of the songs from the mexico DVD the camera went for a close up of his feet.....and what did I see attached to the bass drum hoop? A big red trigger. Looks like it might be a Ddrum trigger.

Now I've never used them....and to be honest I wouldn't know how....I'm not sure exactly how they work. I know the trigger is a sensor and that would have to be hooked up to a module, right?

So I guess that means that the bass drum we're hearing at a live show is actually from a module. So why would he do that? Is it because he just doesn't have enough skill with his feet? If we heared the actual drums would we hear how sloppy he is?

Also, its funny to note that he goes to the trouble of putting mics into the bass drums to make it look like he's doing it old school. Kind of sad too. I guess your ego will make you do silly things like that.

Anyway, hit back with any thoughts on Lars, what you think of him for using them, the pros and cons of using them....or whatever else strikes you.

SonorPlayer
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  #2  
Old 02-14-2010, 10:48 PM
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Bull Bull is offline
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Default Re: Triggers......and Lars Ulrich

Triggers don't hide anything. You will probably hear mistakes even clearer on a triggered kick. Some soundmen like to blend a live and sampled kick.That's why you often see kicks that are mic'ed and triggered.
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  #3  
Old 02-14-2010, 10:55 PM
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Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
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Default Re: Triggers......and Lars Ulrich

It's possible he's only triggering one or two songs I guess, hence the need for conventional mic's on the kicks.

In a way, I think triggers do hide playing inconsistencies.....not so much with respect to timing (i.e. if you're 'flamming' your feet, the trigger won't hide this), but certainly with respect to any differences in the striking volume between each foot (i.e the right beater strikes harder than the left). In that case, they'll certainly even up the sound produced.
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Old 02-14-2010, 10:59 PM
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PeniScott PeniScott is offline
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Default Re: Triggers......and Lars Ulrich

Triggers are a very good idea for any drummer. Also used with a Gate they can be truly amazing.

A Gate (just for the record) is a computer controlled way of monitoring the sound coming from an instrument, like a vocal microphone, a guitar or, you guessed it, a drum. These ensure that only the sound of the INSTRUMENT goes through the PA and speakers to the crowd, meaning that if the drummer needs to adjust something on the pedal and accidentally drops the beater let's say, the audience won't hear it and think 'what was that?'. Only the sound from the head itself is sent through the speakers. For example, they are used in 95% of all live and recording situations on snares so the audience don't hear the ring, just the initial attack and an overall rounded sound.

Triggers are used in conjunction with a Gate to ensure that the best sound possible is achieved. In Lars' case, he'd want a very tight and short bass drum sound. To do that they would put the sound output from the mics and put it with the signal received from the trigger on the bass head.

Hence the result. A tight, short and controlled bass that sounds natural at the same time.

Problem solved.


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  #5  
Old 02-14-2010, 11:14 PM
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MikeM MikeM is offline
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Default Re: Triggers......and Lars Ulrich

Lars has been known for a really "clicky" kick drum sound which is really hard to get without a bunch of processing. If I had to guess, I'd say he's probably triggering a sample of his own kick (from the studio) and blending it (to varying degrees) with his live kick.
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Old 02-15-2010, 09:10 PM
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diosdude diosdude is offline
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Default Re: Triggers......and Lars Ulrich

Clicky sound can be achieved without triggers by using a hard beater, either wood or hard plastic. Gates are only a part of the processed equation though, you have to use a limiter too so you don't clip your system, especially with a strong bass transient. If you are using hard beaters, compressor/ gate/ limiters with eq, a good soundman can get a great mix for your bass drum, no trigger necessary. Remember, triggers don't play the track for you unless you program them to play a sequencer (another totally different discussion). 99% of all triggers just generate a single strike so any time you've heard someone using triggers on their bass drum, they're actually hitting the drum head as fast as the triggers are setting off. My problem with Lars is that he denied using them because he didn't want uneducated critics saying it was the trigger and not him playing. People who know what they're talking about understand that saying "he uses triggers" is just like saying "he uses microphones". Well of course he does, duh?? If you're playing in front of thousands through a huge PA system you have to use one or the other or both. It doesn't mean that you can't play the part. If you have sloppy footwork, the triggers will sound just as sloppy. Just for the record, i think Metallica is the greatest metal band of all time and i respect Lars as a drummer, i just don't think he's a good person.
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Old 04-05-2010, 09:43 AM
icameforflesh icameforflesh is offline
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Default Re: Triggers......and Lars Ulrich

As was stated by someone else here, the ideal sound should be a combination of triggers and bass drum miccing, I assume so the listener clearly hears each bass drum stroke as well as feel the acoustic vibrations and low end punch.
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Old 06-26-2010, 11:54 PM
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Chermen Chermen is offline
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Default Re: Triggers......and Lars Ulrich

Might be I’m conservator, but in my opinion the triggers aren’t the honest way to play on the drums.
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  #9  
Old 06-27-2010, 12:00 AM
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Default Re: Triggers......and Lars Ulrich

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chermen View Post
Might be I’m conservator, but in my opinion the triggers aren’t the honest way to play on the drums.
Just like pickups aren't the honest way to play on the guitar. But they do make the life easer for quite a few people involved in making a set of drums sound good night after night. Not to mention that they are an absolute necessity for extreme speeds.
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Old 06-27-2010, 02:21 AM
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azrae1l azrae1l is offline
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Default Re: Triggers......and Lars Ulrich

the only way a trigger is not honest is if your using it as a switch to activate a preprogrammed drum track, which i've seen. a band here got busted for that not to long ago when the drummers drum machine crapped out during a show and everybody found out he wasn't actually playing anything, just going threw motions.... that's a sad drummer right there.

now if your using it to get a sound, i don't see that as dishonest. your still playing every note. i've seen a couple of guys use the trigger and mic thing just to get that sound they like. same as a pick up on a guitar, not sure how you can possible see that as dishonest really. hell half the things metal guitarists do like pitch harmonics can't be done with out a pick up. but if you see that as dishonest i guess everybody that plays an electric instrument mise well be called a fake.

take note all you classical players out there who use electric violins and cellos to make yourself louder, any body who plays an electric piano, synth, e kit, if your not acoustic, your not playing.......
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  #11  
Old 06-29-2010, 06:44 AM
Numberonefan Numberonefan is offline
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Default Re: Triggers......and Lars Ulrich

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
It's possible he's only triggering one or two songs I guess, hence the need for conventional mic's on the kicks.

In a way, I think triggers do hide playing inconsistencies.....not so much with respect to timing (i.e. if you're 'flamming' your feet, the trigger won't hide this), but certainly with respect to any differences in the striking volume between each foot (i.e the right beater strikes harder than the left). In that case, they'll certainly even up the sound produced.
This would be true if your velocity settings were pinned open all the time but I suspect no one would do that. Just rest your foot on your pedal at it would trigger as a big hit. Like an e-snare you want it to sense the velocity and trigger appropriately.



I find no value in gating/limiting etc of the signal from the module. If the tone is suffering a long ringing etc where you would chop the signal just change to a different more abrupt tone from the module.

My son uses one in his Death Metal band but not in his rock bands. The typical big boom acoustic kick tone is crystal clear below 150ish bpm. Above 200 and certainly 225 plus a single acoustic kick just doesn’t respond quick enough and sounds like mud. Maybe 2 individual kick drums would be ok but he prefers the consistent feel of the double pedal and I prefer lugging only one drum.
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  #12  
Old 06-29-2010, 07:41 AM
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Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
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Default Re: Triggers......and Lars Ulrich

Quote:
Originally Posted by Numberonefan View Post
This would be true if your velocity settings were pinned open all the time but I suspect no one would do that. Just rest your foot on your pedal at it would trigger as a big hit. Like an e-snare you want it to sense the velocity and trigger appropriately.
Hey there old mate......I mean this as a question and not some smart arse response, but I'm not sure how this point actually differs from what I was saying. If you have to adjust "velocity settings" to ensure consistency between both feet then surely that denotes that there is indeed a facility to "hide playing inconsistencies"?

I don't trigger and am not totally familiar with them, so perhaps I've jumped into this thread with no idea, but what you're suggesting seems to support my statement rather than oppose it?
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  #13  
Old 06-29-2010, 07:43 PM
Numberonefan Numberonefan is offline
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Default Re: Triggers......and Lars Ulrich

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
Hey there old mate......I mean this as a question and not some smart arse response, but I'm not sure how this point actually differs from what I was saying. If you have to adjust "velocity settings" to ensure consistency between both feet then surely that denotes that there is indeed a facility to "hide playing inconsistencies"?

I don't trigger and am not totally familiar with them, so perhaps I've jumped into this thread with no idea, but what you're suggesting seems to support my statement rather than oppose it?
Dam your right! I really didn’t look at it from that perspective. Wow, I was shortsighted wasn’t I! I feel stupid now! Doh!

So yes you are correct you “could” mask inconsistencies from foot to foot. Speaking as the guy trying not to hide anything and simply have the trigger and module mimic the organics’ and just respond quicker I would have thought everyone would adjust theirs so the module see’s the speed the head is being hit and trigger variably.
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