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  #1  
Old 06-22-2010, 03:31 PM
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Coldhardsteel Coldhardsteel is offline
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Default Infuriating Bass Drum Problems

Alright, Here's the deal:

My bass drum is currently tuned to what you could call a "Heavy Metal" tuning, which is pretty much as loose as you can get without losing the sound.

It doesn't have a lot of rebound, which is annoying. The sound isn't very defined, as the head is a stock, and it's easy to bury the beater in the head. I also have a pillow lined with the edge touching the circumference of the head on the inside of the drum.

I know that the rebound and the burrowing beater is probably just technique, but I'm looking for more a sound like...

Joey Jordison on Slipknot's Vol. 3(The subliminal Verses)

Bill Bruford on Yes' Fragile

Currently when I play softly in particular it sounds like crud.

So where does the problem lie? Is it my technique, the head, the dampening, the beaters?
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  #2  
Old 06-22-2010, 03:39 PM
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Default Re: Infuriating Bass Drum Problems

First and foremost, an acoustic drum will never sound like something you hear on an album. That sound has gone through many microphones, been EQ'd, has had effects added, etc. In addition to that, Joey from Slipknot triggers his bass drum, so what you hear isn't a real bass drum at all.

Also, I have no idea what kit you have, but remember that the guys you mention have top-of-the-line drum kits, and usually they have professional drum techs who tune their drums to sound their best in any given situation. Not to say your drums won't sound good, I'm just throwing that out there. The recordings we hear from professional drummers are made under optimal conditions, by professionals with a lot of experience in getting the sound they want.

Anyway, that was a huge digression. For rebound, you could always try and tweak the springs on your pedal to simulate rebound. A tight spring will make the beater return quicker.

What heads are you using on your kick drum? How old are the heads? What beater do you use? Do you have a beater patch on the kick drum head?
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  #3  
Old 06-22-2010, 03:40 PM
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Default Re: Infuriating Bass Drum Problems

Sounds like your head to me. Try an Evans EMAD or GMAD. If you prefer Remo, go with a Powerstroke 3. Take the pillow out of the drums and let it be heard.
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  #4  
Old 06-22-2010, 03:56 PM
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Default Re: Infuriating Bass Drum Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldhardsteel View Post
......which is pretty much as loose as you can get without losing the sound.........

......It doesn't have a lot of rebound, which is annoying. The sound isn't very defined,......

......Currently when I play softly in particular it sounds like crud.........

So where does the problem lie? Is it my technique, the head, the dampening, the beaters?
It could be any one of these, but I think it's more than likely the tuning.

Before you blow money on heads or new springs or EQ pillows and the like, try tweaking your tuning. When was the last time you re-tensioned the head? It sounds very much like the head has stretched and needs tightening up. A tighter tension on the head will certainly aid in more rebound. It's also likely to give you a more pleasant tone than the "crud" you are currently experiencing.

Tighten that baby up and it'll feel like a new drum......if that fails, then get a new head.
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  #5  
Old 06-22-2010, 05:38 PM
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Default Re: Infuriating Bass Drum Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naigewron View Post
First and foremost, an acoustic drum will never sound like something you hear on an album. That sound has gone through many microphones, been EQ'd, has had effects added, etc. In addition to that, Joey from Slipknot triggers his bass drum, so what you hear isn't a real bass drum at all.

Also, I have no idea what kit you have, but remember that the guys you mention have top-of-the-line drum kits, and usually they have professional drum techs who tune their drums to sound their best in any given situation. Not to say your drums won't sound good, I'm just throwing that out there. The recordings we hear from professional drummers are made under optimal conditions, by professionals with a lot of experience in getting the sound they want.

Anyway, that was a huge digression. For rebound, you could always try and tweak the springs on your pedal to simulate rebound. A tight spring will make the beater return quicker.

What heads are you using on your kick drum? How old are the heads? What beater do you use? Do you have a beater patch on the kick drum head?
The main problem with my current heads is that I have no idea how long they've been on the drums or how old they are, because I bought the kit used. I have this Pearl "Protone" head(basically stock), more of a beater sticker, and I have a Tama Iron Cobra. Flat, slightly domed beaters.
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Old 06-22-2010, 05:55 PM
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Default Re: Infuriating Bass Drum Problems

Ouch. Protone heads aren't known for their quality. I'd advise you to go for a high-quality head. Based on your wishes, I'd recommend an Evans EMAD2 or a Remo Powerstroke 3, and be sure to throw a kick drum patch on there too.
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  #7  
Old 06-22-2010, 06:00 PM
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Default Re: Infuriating Bass Drum Problems

I'd say the Bill Bruford Fragile sound is much more obtainable with an acoustic drum.

I run a Remo PS3 in the front and an Evan's EMAD 1 or 2 on the batter. EMAD, by the way is worth every penny.

Also stock heads are usually really bad. Ditch them asap.
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  #8  
Old 06-22-2010, 06:08 PM
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Coldhardsteel Coldhardsteel is offline
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Default Re: Infuriating Bass Drum Problems

Yes, the Bruford sound is really what I'm going for. I've been listening to the album recently and thought "Hey, that would sound pretty awesome with double bass stuff I do".

I think I'll go with a Powerstroke 3 batter, any suggestions on whether to get a coated or clear?
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  #9  
Old 06-22-2010, 07:15 PM
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Default Re: Infuriating Bass Drum Problems

i dont know if your using plastic beaters with a slam pad, but that helps with that "heavy metal" sound.
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  #10  
Old 06-22-2010, 09:46 PM
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Default Re: Infuriating Bass Drum Problems

well you can always go with something like my set up...

evans onyx emad with thick muffler, nylon double beater pad. wood beaters, 2 eq pillows at 45 degree rest on each head, double miced, heavly eq'd, gated, compressed, filtered and re eq'd then a touch of effects just for fun. i can get it to sound like anything i want.....

no really i had it sounding like a bass guitar the other day....

and an atomic bomb the week before....






normally it just sounds like a bass drum.......
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  #11  
Old 06-22-2010, 11:22 PM
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Default Re: Infuriating Bass Drum Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldhardsteel View Post
So where does the problem lie? Is it my technique, the head, the dampening, the beaters?
New heads.......if your heads are anywhere near a year old, replace.
A Remo Powerstroke 3, or a Pinstripe (either in clear) for batter, and an Ambassador ebony reso. , those are 2 of my favorite combo's, for a hard rock/metal sound. Empty your kick at first, you can always add a t-shirt/pillow later.
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  #12  
Old 06-23-2010, 12:43 AM
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Default Re: Infuriating Bass Drum Problems

Don't forget to check the reso. If you tighten it up, it will help the rebound even if you don't touch the batter. Try cranking the reso tighter. It will also change the tone of the drum.
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  #13  
Old 06-23-2010, 12:50 AM
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Default Re: Infuriating Bass Drum Problems

If you are looking for Bruford's (Fragile) type of sound, it'll be a coated Ambassador or Emperor on the batter, and most likely a coated or smooth white ambassador on front.

Back then, it was Remo, Evans, and Ludwig for heads (maybe Premier made heads too), and mainly coated heads. There was no such thing as a P3, Pinstripe, SK1 Emad etc... type head in the 70's.

You could go on Bill's website and check out pics of his kits to see what he was using back then.

I'd suggest an Emp, and a patch made from an old coated head (10mils, sounds better than a beater patch IMO too) taped to the head on the outside edges.
Try a regular sized beater rather than the IC--unless you like it.

Good luck!
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  #14  
Old 06-23-2010, 12:52 AM
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Default Re: Infuriating Bass Drum Problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldhardsteel View Post
Alright, Here's the deal:

My bass drum is currently tuned to what you could call a "Heavy Metal" tuning, which is pretty much as loose as you can get without losing the sound.

It doesn't have a lot of rebound, which is annoying. The sound isn't very defined, as the head is a stock, and it's easy to bury the beater in the head. I also have a pillow lined with the edge touching the circumference of the head on the inside of the drum.

I know that the rebound and the burrowing beater is probably just technique, but I'm looking for more a sound like...

Joey Jordison on Slipknot's Vol. 3(The subliminal Verses)

Bill Bruford on Yes' Fragile

Currently when I play softly in particular it sounds like crud.

So where does the problem lie? Is it my technique, the head, the dampening, the beaters?
'Heavy Metal' tuning is usually a tightly tuned bass drum. A whole lot of fast metal cats don;t even use the bass drum sound itself, they use the triggered sound. You want that rebound and need it to play fast figures. On my bass drum, when I play metal, I;ve got it tuned fairly tightly and stuffed with some junk to shut it up. All I am after is the feeling cus mic'ing and/or triggered sounds create the sound.
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