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  #361  
Old 01-22-2010, 10:48 PM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

I for one cannot think of any drummer EVER that is/was as technically proficient as Vinnie. I saw a Jeff Beck concert with him on drums and he managed to play impossibly difficult grooves and fills the whole time and it rarely (only during solos of course) sounded like he was overplaying. Though he is the best (as far as I know), my "favorite" drummer would still have to be Danny Carey.
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  #362  
Old 01-24-2010, 11:59 PM
FunkItUp FunkItUp is offline
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

Quote:
Originally Posted by jake_larson View Post
Hey guys, i have a question. What do you think are some of Vinnies best recordings? I am starting to study him and really only know the zappa and megadeth stuff he did.
Thanks
Check out Jeff Beck's "Live at Ronnie Scotts." Vinnie put some great stuff forward in that show, and his brushwork on "Cause We've Ended As Lovers" off of that album is superb.
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  #363  
Old 01-30-2010, 05:39 AM
Adam8 Adam8 is offline
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

His solo album is incredible as is Alan Holdsworth Secrets and many many others. He's played on thousands of albums. Does anyone else agree that he is the greatest all around drummer ever - or at least alive today?
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  #364  
Old 02-28-2010, 05:54 AM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

Quote:
Originally Posted by cantstandyourfunk View Post
I have been wondering about that for a while, but never really found out. however, if you are into sounds, I'd think that on the opener, A Thousand Years and Desert Rose it's definitely manu, especially in the way he comes in on Desert Rose. If it's otherwise i'd be surprised. Also, Ghost Story is pretty much Vinnie all over; just listen to the outro, you can't miss that ride. I am not so sure about Perfect Love Gone Wrong, but that and Tomorrow We'll See are probably Manu as well. I'd like to think After The Rain Has Fallen as Vinnie's, again, because of tones and the hat work just the overall feel. Does anyone actually play on Big Lie Small World? The time-sig veers towards Vinnie Territory hahaha. God, I love both these guys with Sting, man; it's taste to the max!

Ghost Story is actually played by Manu, and to me is the best drumming on the disc.
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  #365  
Old 03-02-2010, 01:07 PM
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A-customs A-customs is offline
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonescrusher View Post
Some great footage here, also very interesting hearing him speak afterwards:


http://flam.tv/rare-vinnie-colaiuta-in-the-studio/
Great link.Thanks.Saw him one time with beck a few years back.Me and my son.In like the 5th row back at house of blues.His drumming blew us away.amazing chops.........
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  #366  
Old 03-02-2010, 02:42 PM
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Swiss Matthias Swiss Matthias is online now
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

Quote:
Some great footage here, also very interesting hearing him speak afterwards:


http://flam.tv/rare-vinnie-colaiuta-in-the-studio/
Thanks for the link - Vinnie is just the man!!!
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  #367  
Old 03-09-2010, 02:08 AM
higgins higgins is offline
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

I've got a question re: Vinnie and his standing as far as past MD awards.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinnie_Colaiuta

Wikipedia's page on Vinnie cites....

Quote:
Colaiuta has won a total of 18 Drummer of the Year awards from Modern Drummer Magazine's annual reader polls. These include 10 awards in the "Best Overall" category.
While wiki content doesn't necessarily have to be true, it seems a bunch of other internet sites reference wiki's above stat, while I can't find anywhere on the MD site whether this is actually true.

For the record, I happen to be a big Vinnie fan, and was just curious how he's done in these polls over the past decades compared to his contemporaries -- has he won more MD readers poll awards than anyone else?

Is there a MD or alternate legit site (not wiki) that lists this information?

TIA.
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  #368  
Old 04-22-2010, 08:21 PM
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vinngadd vinngadd is offline
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

Hey Folks,

Does anyone have any idea what kind of snare drum Vinnie used at the 2000 MD Festival? I know it's a Gretsch, and I'm assuming that it's a 5x14 chrome over brass. Anybody out there know for sure? That snare is killing! And has the nastiest crack! I want that sound!

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!
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  #369  
Old 05-06-2010, 02:12 PM
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skreg skreg is offline
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

Here's an unreleased goodie featuring Vinnie!

Michael Landau, Vinnie Colaiuta, Steve Tavaglione, and Larry Klein

Dog Cheese

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ygSs...os=LCrdjS93eFU

I LOVE this kind of music!!!
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  #370  
Old 05-07-2010, 03:46 AM
smacks11 smacks11 is offline
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

That track is sweeet! Anyone know where to get the album???
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  #371  
Old 05-27-2010, 01:27 PM
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Thaard Thaard is offline
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

Some new videos on youtube that I haven't seen before, with Patitucci and band.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWRnm0LWLx8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWo1qzzdccA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MyP2psFKlE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz9v11Fut_Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0y-pVLKBP0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPddOnEoH4w
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  #372  
Old 05-27-2010, 11:32 PM
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Swiss Matthias Swiss Matthias is online now
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

"new" videos, haha:).
Thanks anyway, great stuff ............Vinnie's da man!!
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  #373  
Old 05-28-2010, 08:50 AM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiss Matthias View Post
"new" videos, haha:).
Thanks anyway, great stuff ............Vinnie's da man!!
New in terms of when they were uploaded :P
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  #374  
Old 05-30-2010, 09:13 PM
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Swiss Matthias Swiss Matthias is online now
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

by the way, when was Vinnie with Yamaha??
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  #375  
Old 06-01-2010, 05:18 PM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiss Matthias View Post
by the way, when was Vinnie with Yamaha??
Up until the late 90's I believe.
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  #376  
Old 06-01-2010, 09:45 PM
DrummingApril DrummingApril is offline
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

I love Vinnie Colaiuta's drumming. I have him with Sting, Herbie Hancock, and Alan Holdsworth. My dad even has him with Paul Anka. It's silly to say anyone is the best though. If you say that, you're turning music into a sport and a trade skill. It's not either of those. It is art. Musical art. Ability has no place here. Only creativity and sound. So to say someone doesn't understand Vinnie's drumming when it's not their cup of tea, is stupid. Music is not about understanding what someone is playing. If that were case drummer's like Virgil Donati, Dom Famularo, Marco Minneman, Jojo Mayer, and Thomas Lang would be at the top of the music world. They play the fastest, most complex things I have ever heard on the drumkit. But, Musicians avoid those drummers like the plague. When was the last time you heard about one of these guys playing a week at a famous club, or being on a great recording? You haven't, because music is not their priority. Drumming is. Playing 7 in one hand, 5 in the other and 32nd notes on the kick drums has no place in music. It doesn't matter.
I'm a student at Manhattan School Music. Where drummer's talk about music and people such as Adam Nussbaum, Jeff Watts, Steve Jordan, Brian Blade ,Bill Stewart, Gadd and Vinnie Colaiuta.
Still Vinnie is not the best. There is no best. If you think there is, you're not a musician and you don't get the art of music.
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  #377  
Old 06-02-2010, 05:52 AM
Ekim Ekim is offline
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

DrummingApril, that's just silly.

Would you call Mike Keneally a non-musician?

I used to think Marco was JUST a chops monster.

He's not. The dude can groove a rock tune just fine. Check out his work with Paul Gilbert on dang-near pop-tunes.

I will admit Vinnie is probably the sickest, most versatile drummer out there. To go from Zappa to Faith Hill (?????) and sound perfect in every context is amazing.

But don't go assuming things about the chops guys, cuz in at least this one instance, you're dead wrong.
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  #378  
Old 06-02-2010, 11:33 AM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrummingApril View Post
It's silly to say anyone is the best though. If you say that, you're turning music into a sport and a trade skill. It's not either of those. It is art. Musical art. Ability has no place here. Only creativity and sound.
No, ability has a place here. To be able to express yourself properly, you have to be able to do so. If you wanna make amazing music in various styles, you have to work hard on your abilities (besides having some talent, which is another topic), as Vinnie did and does. Your creativity doesn't take you anywhere if you don't know how to translate it onto the instrument.
Quote:
So to say someone doesn't understand Vinnie's drumming when it's not their cup of tea, is stupid. Music is not about understanding what someone is playing.
Quote:
If that were case drummer's like Virgil Donati, Dom Famularo, Marco Minneman, Jojo Mayer, and Thomas Lang would be at the top of the music world.
I always get irritated when people start to put a bunch of drummers all into one box. Those are 5 individual drummers!
Quote:
They play the fastest, most complex things I have ever heard on the drumkit. But, Musicians avoid those drummers like the plague. When was the last time you heard about one of these guys playing a week at a famous club, or being on a great recording? You haven't, because music is not their priority. Drumming is. Playing 7 in one hand, 5 in the other and 32nd notes on the kick drums has no place in music. It doesn't matter.
I strongly disagree. First of all, what is the top of the music world? Being known by as many people as possible? Playing at venues as big as possible? Making as much money as possible?
Second, you possibly contradict yourself: What if you just don't "understand" the drummers you mentioned?
Third, you do absolutely no justice to some of those 5 if you say music wasn't their priority. To be where they are, they have already played music for as long as your entire life probably.
Forth, why doesn't your beforementioned exercise have any place in music? Who says? Maybe in your music? And if not the exact exercise, then of course many other things that are based of 5 or 7 note groupings or both at the same time. Ask Indian musicians! Don't think music=western pop music!
Last, what's the difference between drumming and music? Who defines if "drumming" equals "music" or not?
Quote:
I'm a student at Manhattan School Music. Where drummer's talk about music and people such as Adam Nussbaum, Jeff Watts, Steve Jordan, Brian Blade ,Bill Stewart, Gadd and Vinnie Colaiuta.
Then what? You seem to have forgotten to write the main part of your sentence.
Quote:
Still Vinnie is not the best. There is no best. If you think there is, you're not a musician and you don't get the art of music.
There it is again: You say music is not about understanding what one's playing, but someone to whom Vinnie is the best doesn't get the art of music?

Important thing: Music is a language! Or better; music is a great bunch of languages! So it's certainly possible to "not understand" someone's music, because that certain language doesn't appeal to you, it doesn't touch you, maybe it doesn't even reach you.
By the way: there are some parameters which can enable us to discuss which drummers are "the best", in these parameters, or in what they do.
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  #379  
Old 06-02-2010, 11:34 AM
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Swiss Matthias Swiss Matthias is online now
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

Or, to summarize my big post...: What Ekim just said :).
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  #380  
Old 06-03-2010, 10:14 AM
Drumbob Drumbob is offline
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

I agree with April on this. Matthias, you're automatically out of the game when you say properly.I musically disagree with everything you wrote back to April. I bet Vinnie would too.

There is no "proper" in music. Are you going to tell me Steve Jordan is proper? Jack Dejohnette? Paul Motian? I can go on and on. I agree with April in the sense that you're putting all these rules on music as if it IS a sport. She hit it right on the head. Who are you to say who's expressing themselves properly? No one can say that and have a point. There are no rules in music, just like April said.

Did painter's "understand" Picasso? No. Did everyone love Picasso? NO. Was he a genius? Yes. To form an opinion on an art form, you do not have to understand what is going on. You only have to hear(or see) the outcome. In music we hear the outcome. Then decide if it strikes a chord with us, or not. If someone says they don't like Vinnie's drumming, it's a point of view that is different than yours. It's not because they don't understand something. It's almost as if you think the whole world should think like you. There are hundreds of thousands of musicians that prefer a different approach. Vinnie has one sound, and one approach. Just like other greats. Not everyone likes everyone.

I agree with you about April putting them all in one box. In reality though, these drummers are known for their physical abilities. So that does put them in the same arena. In my opinion, none of them have a particularly great feel, which is why I think they are not in music. The world of drum education is not the world of music. The same way Lewis Nash, Kenny Washington, Carl Allen and Billy Drummond are all in the same musical box of straight ahead jazz drumming. Sure they all do it slightly different, but that's what they do. The drummer's April mentioned in that box are all primarily clinicians. I understand what she's saying.

I also agree with her on best. Best applies only in a competition. Your music to language analogy is too literal. When speaking a language the idea is communication with another human being, so you have to be articulate and clean. If you're not, then you can't communicate. If this were the case in music, Elvin Jones would be musically illiterate. Steve Jordan would know only 4 words, and Jojo Mayer would have constant verbal diarhhea. Speaking an actual language and playing music are two very different things. They're only similar in the sense of conversation pertaining to jazz improvisation. But even then, you're actually creating words sometimes, and in a spoken language that would sound like gibberish. So again, it doesn't really apply.

I disagree on the point you made with regards to Indian music as well. There's a huge difference between a clinician at a drum clinic playing different meter's in each limb just for the sake of challenge and difficulty, and a musical culture that's 200 or more years old. That was just a silly comparison on your part. The rates and groupings in Indian music serve the music. They are organic, and were created for the purpose of serving the music. They do not stand alone.

April I totally agree with you. I feel that fanatical drum fans like Matthias are attempting to turn music into a physical skill with pre-set requirements for what is good. You have to have a certain amount of chops, you have to know every beat in every style, you have to play to a click, you have to, you have to, you have to...it's all BULL...The real artists in the art of music are much more open than this, and they create music. The most influential musicians of all time were all original, and did not have all of these required "skills" you put on music. They were creative and focused on music, not on who can play the smartest and fastest.

Matthias, even the way you categorize music is weird. Western pop? Most pop music in the world comes out of Brazil and Scandinavia. The biggest pop culture sensation this world has ever seen was British.
And really, a great artist can be anyone from Muddy Waters to John Zorn. 2 completely different musicians with exactly the same goal.

At the end of day, I don't care who can play the most styles, who can play the most complex and who can play the fastest. In the world of skill, that means something. In the world of art, that means nothing. Music is art.
I don't want to listen to music that I have to analyze so I know it's good. I like hearing something beautiful that touches me without having to think. I want my soul to be satisfied. When Vinnie Colaiuta plays, I think. I can also figure out what he's playing. When Elvin Jones plays, I hear colors and ocean waters. I feel a flow that reminds of waves. Elvin is not transcribable. No one knows what he's playing. Ever wonder why certain drummers have tons of clones? Because they're easy to figure out. You really don't see any Elvin Jones or Jack Dejohnette clones out there. Its impossible to copy them. But the Vinnie clones are everywhere. What does that tell you?

To you numbers on a schematic may be art. To me Van Gogh is art. Pablo Picasso is art. And drummers like Elvin Jones, Brian Blade, Levon Helm and Jack Dejohnette all possess this type artistry on the drums.

April, I'm so happy to see young music student have a real understanding of music. Best of luck with Manhattan School of music
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  #381  
Old 06-03-2010, 11:16 AM
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Swiss Matthias Swiss Matthias is online now
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumbob View Post
I agree with April on this. Matthias, you're automatically out of the game when you say properly.I musically disagree with everything you wrote back to April. I bet Vinnie would too.
Maybe you misunderstood me. To express this thought to me, you had to properly set some letters and words together in order get it across properly. Voilà. I said properly because April stated that music consists only of creativity and sound.
Quote:
There is no "proper" in music. Are you going to tell me Steve Jordan is proper? Jack Dejohnette? Paul Motian?
Yes, very much so!
Quote:
I can go on and on. I agree with April in the sense that you're putting all these rules on music as if it IS a sport.
What rules did I put to music?
Quote:
She hit it right on the head. Who are you to say who's expressing themselves properly? No one can say that and have a point. There are no rules in music, just like April said.
Well, April quite bashed some drummers, or a category of drummers she meant with it. Although she can speak for herself, why has she a point then?
Quote:
If someone says they don't like Vinnie's drumming, it's a point of view that is different than yours. It's not because they don't understand something. It's almost as if you think the whole world should think like you. There are hundreds of thousands of musicians that prefer a different approach. Vinnie has one sound, and one approach. Just like other greats. Not everyone likes everyone.
You have to stop there, you're interpreting a whole book of clichées on me!! Where did I say anything like you implied I did?
Do I really have to recap what the point was? Ok:
April says: Vinnie is not the best. If someone thinks he is, he doesn't get the art of music.
Me says: Although you (April) just said music isn't about understanding, does someone who thinks Vinnie is the best not get the art of music?
That's all I said.
Quote:
I agree with you about April putting them all in one box. In reality though, these drummers are known for their physical abilities. So that does put them in the same arena. In my opinion, none of them have a particularly great feel, which is why I think they are not in music.
There you go and categorize what music is and what music isn't, too. Doesn't that quite contradict your whole big post? By the way, I would be interested in what you particularly know of those drummer's works.
Quote:
The drummer's April mentioned in that box are all primarily clinicians. I understand what she's saying.
I understand too. But I don't agree. By the way, you know them as clinicians. Most of them were around before clinics.
Quote:
I also agree with her on best. Best applies only in a competition. Your music to language analogy is too literal. When speaking a language the idea is communication with another human being, so you have to be articulate and clean. If you're not, then you can't communicate. If this were the case in music, Elvin Jones would be musically illiterate. Steve Jordan would know only 4 words, and Jojo Mayer would have constant verbal diarhhea. Speaking an actual language and playing music are two very different things. They're only similar in the sense of conversation pertaining to jazz improvisation. But even then, you're actually creating words sometimes, and in a spoken language that would sound like gibberish. So again, it doesn't really apply.
Maybe whe interpret the analogy in different ways. Of course I don't mean it as literal. Notes ≠ letters. I mean it in a more intuitive way. If you say Steve Jordan knows only 4 words - besides not really doing him justice - you reduce what he's "saying" to his bare drum parts, too. But you have to consider the rest of the instruments that are playing with him, too, and you also have to consider his big thing, his sound choices. That's what all makes the language. Some people will dig it, some won't be touched. Hope you get what I mean now.
Quote:
I disagree on the point you made with regards to Indian music as well. There's a huge difference between a clinician at a drum clinic playing different meter's in each limb just for the sake of challenge and difficulty, and a musical culture that's 200 or more years old. That was just a silly comparison on your part.
I only reacted to April's statement "Playing 7 in one hand, 5 in the other and 32nd notes on the kick drums has no place in music." I don't like it when someone comes and says to me what music was and music wasn't. And at the same being quite as dogmatic as I'm being accused of. And so I tried to put it into perspective.
Quote:
I feel that fanatical drum fans like Matthias are attempting to turn music into a physical skill with pre-set requirements for what is good.
I get really pissed of by that **** you say there, sorry!
Quote:
.The real artists in the art of music are much more open than this, and they create music. The most influential musicians of all time were all original, and did not have all of these required "skills" you put on music. They were creative and focused on music, not on who can play the smartest and fastest.
I'm sorry, I just don't know anything to say. Either I completely failed to get my thoughts across (in a foreign language to me, anyway), or you're just not reading well, and again turn all the bad clichées on me. I am really not about what you're accusing me of to be.
Quote:
Matthias, even the way you categorize music is weird. Western pop? Most pop music in the world comes out of Brazil and Scandinavia. The biggest pop culture sensation this world has ever seen was British.
Well, April - American young music student - talked about playing in a famous club as a good indicator for making music, so I believe she is talking about popular western music. I don't categorize that, that's already been done. I didn't say western music was the largest music culture, or did I?
Scandinavia and Britain are Western in my book. I don't mean western USA, hehe.
Quote:
At the end of day, I don't care who can play the most styles, who can play the most complex and who can play the fastest. In the world of skill, that means something. In the world of art, that means nothing. Music is art.
Well, although I disagree that in the world of art it meant nothing, I'm all with you. I don't know what all the fuss is about actually, I'm just pissed of from all these accusations. And I almost can't believe you disagree with everything in my previous post.
Quote:
I don't want to listen to music that I have to analyze so I know it's good. I like hearing something beautiful that touches me without having to think. I want my soul to be satisfied.
Good for you. Me too.
Quote:
No one knows what he's (Elvin) playing.
?
Quote:
Ever wonder why certain drummers have tons of clones? Because they're easy to figure out. You really don't see any Elvin Jones or Jack Dejohnette clones out there. Its impossible to copy them. But the Vinnie clones are everywhere. What does that tell you?
You hear Elvin and Jack influenced musicians all around. You hear "clones" of Vinnie as you hear of all the influencial drummers, but noone sounds like Vinnie, noone thinks like him, and noone makes up music like he does. Because only he is Vinnie, as only Elvin was Elvin and Jack is Jack.
Quote:
To you numbers on a schematic may be art. To me Van Gogh is art. Pablo Picasso is art. And drummers like Elvin Jones, Brian Blade, Levon Helm and Jack Dejohnette all possess this type artistry on the drums.
For the record, two things: a) For a mathematician numbers on a schematic are art.
b) I love Elvin's, Brian's and Jack's playing. Don't know about Levon Helm.

And by the by: Your painting allegory isn't that adequat either. Music is momentary art. Music is heavily related to time, it functions in a time axis. So a musician has to organize the sounds he produces a certain way in time in order to i.e. make it groove. A painter can do his thing in 2 seconds or 2 centuries, whatever he pleases.
...edited my post because it was too harsh, sorry. (in case you already read it)

Last edited by Swiss Matthias; 06-03-2010 at 11:58 AM.
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  #382  
Old 06-03-2010, 11:51 AM
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Thaard Thaard is offline
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

You can´t fight here, this is the Vinnie thread!?

Seriously though, stop trying to interpret and insult each other and talk about Vinnie instead. This is the Vinnie-thread right? Not the "I KNOW MUSIC BETAR THAN YOU!!" thread?
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  #383  
Old 06-03-2010, 11:59 AM
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Swiss Matthias Swiss Matthias is online now
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaard View Post
You can´t fight here, this is the Vinnie thread!?

Seriously though, stop trying to interpret and insult each other and talk about Vinnie instead. This is the Vinnie-thread right? Not the "I KNOW MUSIC BETAR THAN YOU!!" thread?
Haha, point. :) I'm quite guilty of producing oversized posts here, which I don't like reading myself.

Sorry Vinnie...
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  #384  
Old 06-03-2010, 12:31 PM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

Vinnie's nickname in the music industry is 'The Alien'.

Does that paint a picture?

....
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  #385  
Old 06-03-2010, 02:19 PM
Boomka Boomka is offline
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

This is what Vinnie has to say on this topic:

Quote:
"First of all, you have to want to play for the song. Then you'll start seeing musical value and fulfillment in that. You won't even think,"I could have done this really cool lick there." That is defeatist, non-musical thinking...

Anytime you strike the drums, you have to be aware that you're creating a musical event. If you think of it as something more or less technical, you're thinking reductionistically.

What I see happening a lot within drumming is a microcosmic example of what's happening in society, which is sensationalism...but now, if it's not sensational, its value is diminished. That kind of mentality contributes to short attention spans...

There's nothing wrong with personal development through playing an instrument, but what happens when it's treated as a sport? If you want razzle-dazzle...if you want to beat somebody up, be a boxer. All this time I thought drumming was art.

There are a lot of guys out there with skills who have not contributed to the evolution of the instrument. It's about more than that...it's an emotive language, an aesthetic. Skill is an aspect, but it's what you do with that skill, or say with that skill, that matters."
Quote:
"You must show respect and compassion towards the other musicians, and at the same time try to guide things along. I think this is most important. Obviously, you need the capacity and the skills, but technical skill alone is not enough."
--Vinnie Colaiuta
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  #386  
Old 06-03-2010, 07:54 PM
DrummingApril DrummingApril is offline
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

Wow Bob, thank you! I'm not here to argue. Matthias is back pedaling. It's not like I think he's totally off or anything like that. I like the Vinnie article. Matthias if you read that article a bit closer you would not use phrases like 'the best'. Can't you hear what the man is saying? He's your idol, listen to him! lol
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  #387  
Old 06-03-2010, 08:49 PM
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Swiss Matthias Swiss Matthias is online now
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

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Originally Posted by DrummingApril View Post
Wow Bob, thank you! I'm not here to argue. Matthias is back pedaling. It's not like I think he's totally off or anything like that. I like the Vinnie article. Matthias if you read that article a bit closer you would not use phrases like 'the best'. Can't you hear what the man is saying? He's your idol, listen to him! lol
What does back pedaling mean?
You mean read the Vinnie-article a bit closer? I'm all with Vinnie of course! The man isn't just a musical genius, he is a very profound thinker as well, I always love to read his thoughts or listen to what he says.
Yes, I never meant to say there is one best drummer. But I stick to my opinion that there are certain parameters to measure how "good" one is. But then the question is good for what as well. Depends on what you want from a musician.
Yeah, one of my idols, I got several :). Steve Jordan and Bill Stewart being two of them too, by the way!
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  #388  
Old 06-03-2010, 08:57 PM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

By the way, if I may that bold, there is a nice double quote on the "better" topic from the Ginger Baker bashing thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattsmith
I've talked to a lot of older musicians about this better is all subjective thing, and they just look at me like I'm nuts. One of them told me How do I hire the better drummer when I can't tell what better is?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Average
LOL. Classic. Sometimes I log on here and wonder if I am living/playing in some alternate universe where there actually IS a difference between a 6 year old drummer after his first lesson and a seasoned player with 33 years of experience. Clearly, reality must be wrong.
Although one must be careful indeed with the word "better" and "best", the guys do make a good point.
Oh, and I'm generally not here to argue, either :).

Last edited by Swiss Matthias; 06-03-2010 at 10:09 PM.
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  #389  
Old 06-04-2010, 01:12 AM
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Thaard Thaard is offline
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

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Originally Posted by DrummingApril View Post
Wow Bob, thank you! I'm not here to argue. Matthias is back pedaling. It's not like I think he's totally off or anything like that. I like the Vinnie article. Matthias if you read that article a bit closer you would not use phrases like 'the best'. Can't you hear what the man is saying? He's your idol, listen to him! lol
We all know Travis Barker and Joey Jordison are the best drummers of all anyway. The way Joey blasts those double-bass pedals constantly is way more gratifying than listening to anything of Vinnie's playing. And don't get me started on Travis. The way he bashes those cymbals is just poetry man!
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  #390  
Old 06-04-2010, 01:21 AM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

Matt Smith's anecdote down their makes a good point - people at some point must be making qualitative judgments on Vinnie as a drummer; the producer/artist listens to his playing and other peoples' opinions and decides that he's the 'best' man for the job.
That doesn't contradict Vinnie's own thoughts own the issue, it's just that there's a distinction to be made between chops and artistry. It is possible to be a superior artist.
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  #391  
Old 06-04-2010, 03:12 AM
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And don't get me started on Travis. The way he bashes those cymbals is just poetry man!
You are so right! Especially when he remixed "Crank Dat Souja Boy"!!!!1!!1!!1!!!1111!!! That is pure skill. It probably took him weeks to figure out the prerecorded beat for that song.

Those two drummers aren't even worthy of setting up Vinnie's drum set.
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  #392  
Old 06-04-2010, 08:38 AM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

I actually like Travis Barkers drumming with Blink 182. He had some pretty cool ideas.
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  #393  
Old 06-04-2010, 09:17 AM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

..

Talking of cymbal bashing, Vinnie usually 'ices' his hands after a gig, because he hits his cymbals so hard.

So I guess its never the technique, its always the player
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  #394  
Old 06-04-2010, 12:07 PM
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..

Talking of cymbal bashing, Vinnie usually 'ices' his hands after a gig, because he hits his cymbals so hard.

So I guess its never the technique, its always the player
I think it´s more due to his insanely hard rimshotting. No pun intended.
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  #395  
Old 06-04-2010, 12:35 PM
aydee aydee is offline
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I think it´s more due to his insanely hard rimshotting. No pun intended.
Thaardy, he does bomb the rimshots, but this is something he has said himself. The reason is cymbals.

...
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  #396  
Old 06-04-2010, 04:18 PM
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Thaard Thaard is offline
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Originally Posted by aydee View Post
Thaardy, he does bomb the rimshots, but this is something he has said himself. The reason is cymbals.

...
If you say so. I can't remember getting any kind of pain while bashing cymbals though. Snare on the other hand.
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  #397  
Old 06-04-2010, 05:03 PM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

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If you say so. I can't remember getting any kind of pain while bashing cymbals though. Snare on the other hand.
( 4:39 onwards ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEsQ_DWhEeo

his reason is tremendous throw and power from very short distances
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  #398  
Old 06-04-2010, 10:11 PM
DrummingApril DrummingApril is offline
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

Yea, I'm not saying I don't think VinColaiuta is brilliant. He has definitely added to the history of the instrument. I just KNOW there is no best in art. Just opinions. I saw Steve Hass last night with Manhattan Transfer. Not at all a forum for displaying originality or technical skill. He did anyway. I was impressed again. After seeing him with John Scofield where he was creative, then again with this group where it was restricted, I got to see what playing in a box is like. I don't know if I could do it. But it seems like if you're going to make money, you have to play in a box sometimes. Still he had some double bass drum work going on. I wonder if Vinnie felt like he was in a box with Faith Hill or Sting. Faith Hill? Rubbish music. Sting is great though. I wonder how I will make a living a sometimes. I'm going to school for music, but I really like drummers that are artists, not so functional in the contemporary world. Even Brian Blade plays rock. I wonder.

If a drummer has to ice their hands, it means the vibration from the stick is injuring them, so they're not using moeller properly or at all. I guess Vinnie doesn't apply this technique. If you use moeller you can play very hard and loud without any impact on your hands.
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  #399  
Old 06-04-2010, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by DrummingApril View Post
If a drummer has to ice their hands, it means the vibration from the stick is injuring them, so they're not using moeller properly or at all. I guess Vinnie doesn't apply this technique. If you use moeller you can play very hard and loud without any impact on your hands.
Actually, I think it's called the free-stroke, and moeller is for triplets and fast accents? Anyway, let's steer clear from technique stuff and get back to vinnie :P

I downloaded this awesome clinic from Smuget in Oslo. It's from 1989. It's awesome! If anyone want it, I could perhaps upload it?
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  #400  
Old 06-04-2010, 11:58 PM
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Swiss Matthias Swiss Matthias is online now
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

Well I'm coming back to language and playing "properly" here: Unlike paintings, music is mostly made by several people simultaneously. So there is no absolute freedom, compromises and decisions have to be made. If you are hired by a blues guitarist, you have to play the "proper" language, which does put you in a box of course. But then I believe you have to put yourself in a certain "box" anyway if you play. You can't just always play everything that comes to mind no matter what. But that doesn't have to be a bad thing, does it?
By the way I don't mean technically correct or always on the spot in a robotic way by being "proper". I just mean fitting the circumstances.
This is the reason why I like to be in different bands or projects at the same time, i.e. a jazz band, and a rock band. So in the rock band I'd try to make my parts fit the riffs, the melodies, the songs, and make it rock. I don't have to be sad for not getting to shred or whatever, because I know I'll be in the jazz band some days later where I can display a whole other side of me. That's a cool thing. And that's a thing Vinnie does very, very classy :).
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