DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > Drummers

Drummers Topic Name = Drummer's Name. Use this forum to discuss the drummers profiled on DrummerWorld

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #841  
Old 04-08-2010, 04:15 AM
beatklops's Avatar
beatklops beatklops is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Leipzig, Germany
Posts: 13
Default Re: Neil Peart

You guys still don't get it, and thats fine with me. Because you obviously do not want to understand what i'm trying to convey. You still try to put it like i said Peart is bad or Vinnie is better - this is not what its about. I was simply responding to the guy who said that neil re-wrote the book on Polyrythms and Independence, which is absolute nonsense in my opinion. I also NEVER said, that these things are neccesary to do a good drum track/solo. But they CAN make it better. Btw Weckl is not the only Big Chops Guy who laid down simple pop tracks, and again: I never claimed that this would be a bad thing. I dont know what your problem is, really.

So finally: I THINK NEIL PEARTS TECHNICAL SKILLS GET MORE RESPECT THAN THEY SHOULD. Which says nothing about him being a good or bad drummer (or even his songwriting). But since i'm obviously in the wrong place to have an educated discussion about this subject, and am no longer willing to get words put into my mouth, i'll leave you guys to it...

"People always hear what they want to hear."
Reply With Quote
  #842  
Old 04-08-2010, 04:34 AM
Strangelove's Avatar
Strangelove Strangelove is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere west of sanity
Posts: 1,133
Default Re: Neil Peart

I thought you were leaving it to us after your first or second post. You are now up to 6, so it must be a pretty passionate topic for you. Come on - 8 total posts here and 6 are directed at Peart.

We weren't born yesterday, ace.
Reply With Quote
  #843  
Old 04-08-2010, 06:31 AM
Jeff Gordon #24
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Neil Peart

Quote:
Originally Posted by beatklops View Post
You guys still don't get it, and thats fine with me. Because you obviously do not want to understand what i'm trying to convey. You still try to put it like i said Peart is bad or Vinnie is better - this is not what its about. I was simply responding to the guy who said that neil re-wrote the book on Polyrythms and Independence, which is absolute nonsense in my opinion. I also NEVER said, that these things are neccesary to do a good drum track/solo. But they CAN make it better. Btw Weckl is not the only Big Chops Guy who laid down simple pop tracks, and again: I never claimed that this would be a bad thing. I dont know what your problem is, really.

So finally: I THINK NEIL PEARTS TECHNICAL SKILLS GET MORE RESPECT THAN THEY SHOULD. Which says nothing about him being a good or bad drummer (or even his songwriting). But since i'm obviously in the wrong place to have an educated discussion about this subject, and am no longer willing to get words put into my mouth, i'll leave you guys to it...

"People always hear what they want to hear."
Hey beatklops...you opened up a can of worms with your initial Peart -bashing post, ie...Vinnie and Dennis can play a Peart solo in their sleep. Among other rather ridiculous rants about one of the greatest and influentual rock drummers of all times. So what do you expect to get back from your fire-breathing unrespectful post(s)?

Clearly, you're in the minority like I said before. So when you make comments like you have, that are just your opinion, you have to expect not-so-favorable reactions from others that don't share this opinion.

I will give you credit though, for having the "stones" to be quite dis-respectful to a VERY accomplished drummer like Neil Peart, right outta the gate. You only had 1 or 2 posts here on DW's forum when you posted on this NP thread. WOW!

Bravery or foolishness?

I, personally, will just have to agree to totally disagree with you here, Mitchi. And please don't try to disapprove of any other legendary, influentual, and accomplished drummers here on DW. It really doesn't help in any way to criticize and disrespect. What's the point?

It only breeds contempt.
Reply With Quote
  #844  
Old 04-08-2010, 08:17 AM
LinearDrummer's Avatar
LinearDrummer LinearDrummer is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 930
Default Re: Neil Peart

Quote:
Originally Posted by yesdog View Post
You are Judging art. As one drummer said is pocasso better than monet.
Exactly!
Quote:
Originally Posted by beatklops,685427
He has good technique - at the things hes playing (wich i'll get to later). But any Drummer who practices regulary and the right way can achieve Pearts level of technique in a relatively short amount of time (I'd say about 5 years, if not less, but thats debatable).
"beatklops" what is your criteria for being the super technical drummer you've described?
__________________
My babies -
Big Yamaha - Baby Roland - Lil Rodgers
Reply With Quote
  #845  
Old 04-08-2010, 11:01 AM
MikeM's Avatar
MikeM MikeM is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,663
Default Re: Neil Peart

Round 2:
Quote:
Originally Posted by beatklops View Post
But also - and unfortunately for him, because i bet he didnt start the myth and wouldnt want himself to be considered the best or anything like that - he is one of the most overrated drummers of all time, at least in my opinion. I want to explain this by adressing some of the most popular arguments about his playing:
I think I already beat this one to death in my previous post, but just to recap, I don’t think he’s overrated except by those applying the wrong set of metrics – that’s those on both sides of this.

Quote:
His technical skills are amazing.
He has good technique - at the things hes playing (wich i'll get to later). But any Drummer who practices regulary and the right way can achieve Pearts level of technique in a relatively short amount of time (I'd say about 5 years, if not less, but thats debatable). Since he doesn't do any advanced independence or polyrythmic stuff it just boils down to pure hand and feet speed. I think his singles are pretty good, his doubles are not that fast though. His feet are ok. Keep in mind this is all IMHO. And dont give me the "Playing over 3 is hard "(regarding one of his foot ostinatos hes playing all the time, RLL) - it's just not.
Your first point is well taken. I’ve thought that myself. But I also think that Mystic Rhythms was a pretty good example of him using independence. I never thought of it as polyrhythmic stuff, though – there’s no 5 against 7 or even 3 against 4 going on there, but there is a lot of layering and things to keep track of. His four limbs are all involved in making that thing happen, and it sounds cool, which is easily the coolest thing about it. A beat like that was uncharted territory, though, and he did have to figure out how to fit and phrase all those little flourishes in there without breaking the flow, so I don’t think you can call him lazy. He did give it a lot of thought.

His single strokes and double strokes are pretty good, but nothing far beyond what you might expect. Those ostinatos are tricky and can certainly help with the independence. For me, I just don’t think they sound that cool. That’s just a personal thing I have – I didn’t like them when Bozzio started doing them either. I thought I’d rather shoot myself than spend 5 minutes on them. But more power to anyone wanting to go there.

Quote:
2. He's totally creative and comes up with Stuff no one can come up with
It’s not that he comes up with stuff that no one else CAN come up with, it’s that he comes up with stuff that no one else DOES come up with. That’s a really big and important difference.

Quote:
Well i actually think hes creative. At least he was once in his life when i came up with that solo hes been playing for a gazillion years now. And maybe at the Time this stuff was innovative. But now it isnt anymore.
You’re right about hearing it in the context of time. Having grown up in the late ‘70s and early ‘80s I was hearing Neil in his prime. I’m not nearly as big a fan of his work in more recent years, but I still don’t think he’s overrated.

Again about the solo’s. I agree that the cowbell thing is very very tired. I also grew weary of that 7/8 marimba melody like 100 years ago. I might be one of those guys that takes a popcorn break during his solos. But again, go back to All The World’s A Stage, or even Exit, Stage Left and listen to those solos from when he was young. They were like songs in their own right and were evolving even then. I think they were quite good if primarily from a compositional perspective.

Quote:
A perfect example would be the a tony royster jr. solo video…[he] plays a great solo but incorporates a lot of advanced stuff like overrideng and/or playing polyrithmic patterns.
Seriously? Tony Royster? If you’re looking to the gospel chops guys, at least pick Aaron Spears or Thomas Pridgen. But I digress, yes these guys are playing chops far beyond what NP was ever capable of playing, and that cool. However, none of them are nearly as organized and compositional as NP. Here’s where it’s important not to distinguish who’s “better” but who’s really giving it some thought with a wider view.

Problem is with most technique monsters like that is that when they decide to tone down the overplaying, they just go for the straight groove (like Weckl playing with Madonna). For them it’s one or the other. The thing about NP is that he was always able to find a middle ground that was complimentary to the music. He didn’t not fight the music by laying back; he didn’t not fight the music by becoming more integrated with it. That was the key, and it had little to do with how blazing his chops were.

Could other drummers have taken this path? Yes, if among other things, they were in bands that could accommodate that (another important consideration), but did they? With few exceptions, no, they didn’t.

Quote:
Drummers at the level of Royster (just an example, I'm not even mentioning greats like vinnie or dennis chambers) could write and perform a solo like pearts while sleeping. They just dont do it because their vocabulary is much bigger and they like to express their emotions on a much more complex level.
Again, it’s the fact that they don’t have that compositional sense that Peart has. Of course they have the physical chops to do whatever NP does, but they have to wait for NP to compose it before they can demonstrate “how easy it is”, rather than not waiting for NP and composing something equally as compelling.

Quote:
And sorry to say this, Mr.Peart just simply cant play them [polyrhythmic wanking and blistering double bass], so he doesnt even have the option, wich in itself IMO should clear out any doubts about if he's the best.
Here we go with the “best” again. Be mature enough to ignore those that say NP is the “best” and remember to ask yourself: “best” at what?

Quote:
And im not even starting about his humongous kit. I'd like to see Mr.Peart play a solo on a 3 Piece kit and see what "great phrases" he comes up with.
NP likes melodic tom parts. Can’t really fault him for that. I play 3 toms on my kit (one up two down) and get the cocked eyebrow from two-tom hipsters from time to time. You know what? Screw people that judge based on kit size. I don’t hear anyone knocking Ed Shaugnessy with his 5 up 2 down double bass, which is pretty close to what NP uses.

And as far as “great phrases” listen to the string of fills on the outtro of The Weapon or the middle section of Red Sector A (which is just very cool and even more original). Hard to play? Some of it is. But really hard to come up with. That’s just inspired stuff there, IMO. Again, easy to knock the technique involved and even easier to miss how clever it was to begin with.

It’s like The Beatles. None of those guys thought of themselves as great players. They knew that they were just good enough to execute the ideas they had, but for them the ideas were the only thing that mattered. Some people call that “dumbing down” but screw them, they don’t get that composing itself is a craft that IMO takes a lot more thought and talent than just learning to wiggle your fingers quickly.

Song writing (or drum part writing) is the hard part. Practicing rudiments and speed are easy. Like you said, anyone can develop those skill in a few years of disciplined practice, but you may never reach the ability to compose something truly original. A lot of players in my experience are so anal retentive about practicing that they can’t find it in them to get inspired to compose or just play for the fun of it.

Sad, really. That’s how we get in these maddening debates about who’s better than who.

Quote:
But i think its a slap in the face to all those guys that have invested much more time and energy in developing their craft and have deliverd so much more interesting efforts on the instrument…
I might turn that around on you and say it’s a slap in the face to every drummer who puts composition above the strict technique who’s place seems to only belong in a solo aimed at proving superiority over other drummers. It's a high-minded facade hiding the fact that you're the competitive drum jock on the playground trying to knock the fun out of everyone else's play time.

Spend a little more time thinking about what makes a part cool and how to get there, and I think you'll spend a lot less time worrying about who's "overrated", or figuring out acedemic ostinatos or polyrhythms pitting a 7 against a 13 - they just don’t sound that cool.

Last edited by MikeM; 04-08-2010 at 11:38 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #846  
Old 04-08-2010, 12:40 PM
beatklops's Avatar
beatklops beatklops is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Leipzig, Germany
Posts: 13
Default Re: Neil Peart

Thanks for your post Mike. Made me think... Bashing is an accomplished drummer (or musician) is probably never good so i guess you guys are right about the fact that coming here (of all places) and writing what i wrote serves no real purpose. So i'll try to be a bit more positive in future posts on this forum :D Although i dont really see how the number of Posts corellates with what one puts into them...

Anyhow, off to a good start i guess :-)

PS: Royster was just the Example because of that Youtube Link thing i explained in an Earlier Post. I like Spears or Pridgen (Sometimes) better...
Reply With Quote
  #847  
Old 04-08-2010, 12:50 PM
beatklops's Avatar
beatklops beatklops is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Leipzig, Germany
Posts: 13
Default Re: Neil Peart

Quote:
...above the strict technique whoís place seems to only belong in a solo aimed at proving superiority over other drummers.
A non-Peart related point: I really do think that good technique and Vocabulary on the kit can make you a better Drummer. And in my Opinion a good solo expresses Emotions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q50Scn6BSrY
This is my personal favorite drum solo performance and i think this man is not trying to prove superiority over others even if hes incorporating some of the Stuff thats been discussed here before.

Rock on

Mitchi
Reply With Quote
  #848  
Old 04-08-2010, 01:45 PM
Swiss Matthias's Avatar
Swiss Matthias Swiss Matthias is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 2,638
Default Re: Neil Peart

Great solo, thanks for the link!
Reply With Quote
  #849  
Old 04-08-2010, 07:55 PM
DrumEatDrum's Avatar
DrumEatDrum DrumEatDrum is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 7,725
Default Re: Neil Peart

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
Round 2:

Itís not that he comes up with stuff that no one else CAN come up with, itís that he comes up with stuff that no one else DOES come up with. Thatís a really big and important difference.

.................................................. ................................

I might turn that around on you and say itís a slap in the face to every drummer who puts composition above the strict technique whoís place seems to only belong in a solo aimed at proving superiority over other drummers. It's a high-minded facade hiding the fact that you're the competitive drum jock on the playground trying to knock the fun out of everyone else's play time.
MikeM is my new hero.

You nailed it, end of story.
Reply With Quote
  #850  
Old 04-08-2010, 09:03 PM
Ian Williams's Avatar
Ian Williams Ian Williams is offline
Rebel
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Venezuela.
Posts: 3,183
Default Re: Neil Peart

Excellent debrief on this subject, good job! mate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
Round 2:
I think I already beat this one to death in my previous post, but just to recap, I donít think heís overrated except by those applying the wrong set of metrics Ė thatís those on both sides of this.


Your first point is well taken. Iíve thought that myself. But I also think that Mystic Rhythms was a pretty good example of him using independence. I never thought of it as polyrhythmic stuff, though Ė thereís no 5 against 7 or even 3 against 4 going on there, but there is a lot of layering and things to keep track of. His four limbs are all involved in making that thing happen, and it sounds cool, which is easily the coolest thing about it. A beat like that was uncharted territory, though, and he did have to figure out how to fit and phrase all those little flourishes in there without breaking the flow, so I donít think you can call him lazy. He did give it a lot of thought.

His single strokes and double strokes are pretty good, but nothing far beyond what you might expect. Those ostinatos are tricky and can certainly help with the independence. For me, I just donít think they sound that cool. Thatís just a personal thing I have Ė I didnít like them when Bozzio started doing them either. I thought Iíd rather shoot myself than spend 5 minutes on them. But more power to anyone wanting to go there.


Itís not that he comes up with stuff that no one else CAN come up with, itís that he comes up with stuff that no one else DOES come up with. Thatís a really big and important difference.

Youíre right about hearing it in the context of time. Having grown up in the late Ď70s and early Ď80s I was hearing Neil in his prime. Iím not nearly as big a fan of his work in more recent years, but I still donít think heís overrated.

Again about the soloís. I agree that the cowbell thing is very very tired. I also grew weary of that 7/8 marimba melody like 100 years ago. I might be one of those guys that takes a popcorn break during his solos. But again, go back to All The Worldís A Stage, or even Exit, Stage Left and listen to those solos from when he was young. They were like songs in their own right and were evolving even then. I think they were quite good if primarily from a compositional perspective.

Seriously? Tony Royster? If youíre looking to the gospel chops guys, at least pick Aaron Spears or Thomas Pridgen. But I digress, yes these guys are playing chops far beyond what NP was ever capable of playing, and that cool. However, none of them are nearly as organized and compositional as NP. Hereís where itís important not to distinguish whoís ďbetterĒ but whoís really giving it some thought with a wider view.

Problem is with most technique monsters like that is that when they decide to tone down the overplaying, they just go for the straight groove (like Weckl playing with Madonna). For them itís one or the other. The thing about NP is that he was always able to find a middle ground that was complimentary to the music. He didnít not fight the music by laying back; he didnít not fight the music by becoming more integrated with it. That was the key, and it had little to do with how blazing his chops were.

Could other drummers have taken this path? Yes, if among other things, they were in bands that could accommodate that (another important consideration), but did they? With few exceptions, no, they didnít.

Again, itís the fact that they donít have that compositional sense that Peart has. Of course they have the physical chops to do whatever NP does, but they have to wait for NP to compose it before they can demonstrate ďhow easy it isĒ, rather than not waiting for NP and composing something equally as compelling.

Here we go with the ďbestĒ again. Be mature enough to ignore those that say NP is the ďbestĒ and remember to ask yourself: ďbestĒ at what?

NP likes melodic tom parts. Canít really fault him for that. I play 3 toms on my kit (one up two down) and get the cocked eyebrow from two-tom hipsters from time to time. You know what? Screw people that judge based on kit size. I donít hear anyone knocking Ed Shaugnessy with his 5 up 2 down double bass, which is pretty close to what NP uses.

And as far as ďgreat phrasesĒ listen to the string of fills on the outtro of The Weapon or the middle section of Red Sector A (which is just very cool and even more original). Hard to play? Some of it is. But really hard to come up with. Thatís just inspired stuff there, IMO. Again, easy to knock the technique involved and even easier to miss how clever it was to begin with.

Itís like The Beatles. None of those guys thought of themselves as great players. They knew that they were just good enough to execute the ideas they had, but for them the ideas were the only thing that mattered. Some people call that ďdumbing downĒ but screw them, they donít get that composing itself is a craft that IMO takes a lot more thought and talent than just learning to wiggle your fingers quickly.

Song writing (or drum part writing) is the hard part. Practicing rudiments and speed are easy. Like you said, anyone can develop those skill in a few years of disciplined practice, but you may never reach the ability to compose something truly original. A lot of players in my experience are so anal retentive about practicing that they canít find it in them to get inspired to compose or just play for the fun of it.

Sad, really. Thatís how we get in these maddening debates about whoís better than who.


I might turn that around on you and say itís a slap in the face to every drummer who puts composition above the strict technique whoís place seems to only belong in a solo aimed at proving superiority over other drummers. It's a high-minded facade hiding the fact that you're the competitive drum jock on the playground trying to knock the fun out of everyone else's play time.

Spend a little more time thinking about what makes a part cool and how to get there, and I think you'll spend a lot less time worrying about who's "overrated", or figuring out acedemic ostinatos or polyrhythms pitting a 7 against a 13 - they just donít sound that cool.
__________________
Thank you so much...
Reply With Quote
  #851  
Old 04-09-2010, 12:12 AM
Pocket-full-of-gold's Avatar
Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia.
Posts: 9,870
Default Re: Neil Peart

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Williams View Post
Excellent debrief on this subject, good job! mate.
Agreed....one of the best rebuttals I've come across. Remind me never to tangle with you Michael! :-)
__________________
What's the best cape for running away from a gig?
Reply With Quote
  #852  
Old 04-09-2010, 04:10 AM
DrumEatDrum's Avatar
DrumEatDrum DrumEatDrum is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 7,725
Default Re: Neil Peart

Rush has all new tour dates on their site, Rush.com
Reply With Quote
  #853  
Old 04-09-2010, 04:53 AM
Zumba_Zumba's Avatar
Zumba_Zumba Zumba_Zumba is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 169
Default Re: Neil Peart

Quote:
Originally Posted by beatklops View Post
I never said hes underrated. I mentioned him as overrated (portnoy that is). But i already said that maybe this is not a description i have the right to use in this context. So i'll ust say that Mr. Portnoy IMHO falls under exactly the same category Mr.Peart falls into, which is why its no surprise to me that he pays him tribute. Although i think Peart actually did a little more for Drumming in general.

I think you dont want to understand me yesdog, i dont say that these guys cant play. My point is about Skill and Vocabulary.

I own each and every dream theater album btw.
Do you really take Youtube comments seriously? Should I then take your poorly substantiated claims seriously? For one example, the innovation people may have been writing about does not deal with his solos. Instead, I believe they meant his drum patterns composed for Rush's songs. Songs like Scars, Territories, Tai Shan, and Xanadu have drum parts that are quite unique and provided mainstream listeners with something exciting and different. I also think you don't quite understand the Mystic Rhythms drum parts. In albums such as Power Windows, Hold Your Fire and Counterparts, there are a lot of notes triggered by pads and a left-sided pedal. There tends to be more going on there than meets the ear.

You better hope Michael Drums doesn't read your rant. He will, quite literally, have a brain aneurism.
__________________
Give me a liter of cola.
Reply With Quote
  #854  
Old 04-09-2010, 05:06 AM
Pollyanna's Avatar
Pollyanna Pollyanna is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cyberspace, Sydney connection
Posts: 10,000
Default Re: Neil Peart

Of course Neil is wildly overrated but that's just how things are. Once someone - in any field - gains a certain level of attention it snowballs and they become more famous because they are famous. Ditto Bonzo and Ringo and Gadd. Ditto Paris Hilton and Lara Bingle, for that matter.

Over 20 pages here for Neil - many times more than remarkable drummers with great technique and compositional sense like Billy Cobham, Bill Bruford, Chris Culter etc. The attention a drummer receives is only a very rough guide as to his or her prowess.

The Neils, Bonzos, Ringos and Steves of this world are fabulous in their own way, but the attention they receive would have you think they were a hundred times better than their peers. In truth they simply have some qualities that people find a little bit more appealing, or their bands are more popular.

Peart/Bruford, Bonzo/Paice, Ringo/Charlie, Gadd/Jordan - miles of difference in quality? They are all close peers, except maybe Neil and Bill, where the latter is a clearly superior prog drummer in every respect apart from showmanship IMO :) *ducks for cover*

More interesting than rating drummers is working out what the X-factor qualities are that first gained attention (before the celebrity snowball effect exaggerated their reputations).
__________________
.
Polly's rhythms
.
Reply With Quote
  #855  
Old 04-09-2010, 05:09 AM
beatklops's Avatar
beatklops beatklops is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Leipzig, Germany
Posts: 13
Default Re: Neil Peart

@zumba_zumba

i don't think you're in a position to decide wether i understand or fully comprehend the drumpart to this song. I'm well aware of whats going on there rythmically and whats being played by mr.peart.

And i dont care who's having a brain aneurism (in a sense - of course i care) - i spoke my mind and thats my right. As to my claims being unsubstantiated: even MikeM acknowledges my arguments about the technical aspects of Neils Playing...and thats all my "claims" were about.

Anyhow, Mikes Post remains very good and thoughtful and i'm not gonna whine around here again about Mr.Peart.

All the best
Reply With Quote
  #856  
Old 04-09-2010, 05:19 AM
DrumEatDrum's Avatar
DrumEatDrum DrumEatDrum is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 7,725
Default Re: Neil Peart

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
except maybe Neil and Bill, where the latter is a clearly superior prog drummer in every respect apart from showmanship IMO :) *ducks for cover*
.
Well, Neil considers Bruford one his hero's, so Neil would probably gladly tell you Bill is a better player.
Reply With Quote
  #857  
Old 04-09-2010, 02:15 PM
Zumba_Zumba's Avatar
Zumba_Zumba Zumba_Zumba is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 169
Default Re: Neil Peart

Quote:
Originally Posted by beatklops View Post
@zumba_zumba

i don't think you're in a position to decide wether i understand or fully comprehend the drumpart to this song. I'm well aware of whats going on there rythmically and whats being played by mr.peart.

And i dont care who's having a brain aneurism (in a sense - of course i care) - i spoke my mind and thats my right. As to my claims being unsubstantiated: even MikeM acknowledges my arguments about the technical aspects of Neils Playing...and thats all my "claims" were about.

Anyhow, Mikes Post remains very good and thoughtful and i'm not gonna whine around here again about Mr.Peart.

All the best
I don't think you are in a position to decide on Neil's credibility, technical aspects or otherwise. I am however in a position to respond to your post which is my right as a forum member. You seem to come across with a little arrogance which makes it hard to keep responses to you civil. So keep your cool, we are two people behind computers far away from each other having a little argument.

The brain aneurysm thing was about a die-hard forum member that usually responds to posts like yours. I'm shocked he hasn't yet. It was kind of a joke but I guess taking fire from others can make one defensive. All the best to you too.
__________________
Give me a liter of cola.
Reply With Quote
  #858  
Old 04-09-2010, 06:44 PM
MikeM's Avatar
MikeM MikeM is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,663
Default Re: Neil Peart

Quote:
Originally Posted by beatklops View Post
A non-Peart related point: I really do think that good technique and Vocabulary on the kit can make you a better Drummer. And in my Opinion a good solo expresses Emotions.
I can't disagree with that.
Quote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q50Scn6BSrY
This is my personal favorite drum solo performance and i think this man is not trying to prove superiority over others even if hes incorporating some of the Stuff thats been discussed here before.
Joel Rosenblatt is an amazing drummer for sure. I don't want to take anything away from him here, but he is playing a form where players are featured, as in step up and show us your chops, which is a little different than making your crazy playing working in a "song" context. But that's why people like that kind of music; so they can watch far-out players like that showing off everything they've got.

Anyway, Neil Peart was my favorite drummer when I first started out playing and I did think he was the "best", (so I get where new drummer get that) but he was just a gateway to a lot of other really great drummers for me. So like you, I began to question how good NP really was. His technique is nothing compared to Gadd or Greb or any number of other guys. BUT, I came back to the realization that it wasn't so much about how good his chops were, but how good his compositions were. Of course, not everyone else is as impressed with his compositional style as I am so we're free to disagree on that stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
Of course Neil is wildly overrated but that's just how things are. Once someone - in any field - gains a certain level of attention it snowballs and they become more famous because they are famous...

More interesting than rating drummers is working out what the X-factor qualities are that first gained attention (before the celebrity snowball effect exaggerated their reputations).
Hi Polly - things slowing down on the Kenny G thread, are they?

That's an interesting point - trying to figure out the X-factor. I know you're not much of a NP fan, so I'll assume your role here is pure harassment ;)

Last edited by MikeM; 04-09-2010 at 07:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #859  
Old 04-09-2010, 06:54 PM
DrumEatDrum's Avatar
DrumEatDrum DrumEatDrum is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 7,725
Default Re: Neil Peart

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zumba_Zumba View Post
You better hope Michael Drums doesn't read your rant. He will, quite literally, have a brain aneurism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zumba_Zumba View Post
I

The brain aneurysm thing was about a die-hard forum member that usually responds to posts like yours. I'm shocked he hasn't yet. .
+1. I had the same exact thought. haha. Where has he been?

He must be busy standing in line for tickets for the upcoming tour!
Reply With Quote
  #860  
Old 04-09-2010, 07:04 PM
MikeM's Avatar
MikeM MikeM is online now
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 4,663
Default Re: Neil Peart

I haven't seen Rush since '86 but seeing that they're coming here this summer, I'm thinking about going to see them. Tickets go on sale next weekend. Of course, I thought that last two (or three) times they came around and always found other things I'd rather be doing. It would be cool to see them play all of Moving Pictures! That was the first concert I ever went to (Rush Moving Pictures tour).
Reply With Quote
  #861  
Old 04-09-2010, 07:07 PM
Strangelove's Avatar
Strangelove Strangelove is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere west of sanity
Posts: 1,133
Default Re: Neil Peart

Perhaps it is my old age, but to me, solos mean very little to nothing from any musical standpoint at all. Most are not pleasant to listen to, although, like watching a very good athletic event, can be entertaining in that sense.

I'm with Mike on Neil's composition abilities, and will offer something to evaluate a great drummer with, beyond polyrythms, speed, timing, rudimentary skills, and all the other criteria we throw around. Do they actually sound good? I recently saw a guitarists poll on greatest solos. Gilmore's "Comfortably Numb" was voted first. Now I am not a great guitarist by any means, but I could play that myself if a sat down and worked at it. I thought to myself - how ridiculous (rediculouss) for that to be #1 - what about Blackmore's Highway Star, Burn, or Lazy? What about Malmsteen, Van Halen, or other fret burners? But it dawned on me too that Confortably Numb is one of the absolute coolest sounding guitar solos I have ever listened to. Who does not get captivated just listening to it? Peart is the same way with the drums. Mike you mentioned Red Sector A - the middle section I think. The part I love about that song the most is Neil's syncopated ride bell part during the chorus. Nobody else would have composed the drums that way, and I listen to that song mainly to hear that part. It's nothing that complicated, just a pleasure to the ears and it is an awesome rythm, too. The same with his intro to Subdivisions and Distant Early Warning. I just can't hear those enough. Anyway, that's my take on qualities of great drummers. Is Neil the best? Probably not. Is he one the greatest? Yes, definitely.

Anyway, Beatklops, willkommen, mein freund. Sorry we got into a big fight right at first, but we are not always this way around here. I look forward to your insight into drummers and equipment.

Last edited by Strangelove; 04-10-2010 at 06:58 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #862  
Old 04-09-2010, 07:10 PM
TFITTING942
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Neil Peart

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
I haven't seen Rush since '86 but seeing that they're coming here this summer, I'm thinking about going to see them. Tickets go on sale next weekend. Of course, I thought that last two (or three) times they came around and always found other things I'd rather be doing. It would be cool to see them play all of Moving Pictures! That was the first concert I ever went to (Rush Moving Pictures tour).
Mike, you will probably enjoy the show a lot. I saw them last year and was so glad to see the old stuff played again as well as the new. I personally only like their albums up to Subdivisions. After that they got a little week for me. I brought my brother-in law who was a non Rush fan ( not a hater but more of a Phish fan). He said it was the best live show he had ever seen and wanted to borrow some of my Rush cd's afterwards. For three senior citizens, they rock!
Reply With Quote
  #863  
Old 04-09-2010, 07:12 PM
CCdrummer CCdrummer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Alberta
Posts: 353
Default Re: Neil Peart

While I found the youtube links to Vinnie's playing to be jaw dropping to say the least, it will never speak to me or hit me emotionally in the way that Peart's playing has over the years.

I guess thats why we call it art.
Reply With Quote
  #864  
Old 04-09-2010, 07:19 PM
LinearDrummer's Avatar
LinearDrummer LinearDrummer is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 930
Default Re: Neil Peart

Quote:
Originally Posted by beatklops View Post
.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q50Scn6BSrY
This is my personal favorite drum solo performance and i think this man is not trying to prove superiority over others even if hes incorporating some of the Stuff thats been discussed here before.

Rock on

Mitchi
Thats a great clip...Joel is a great player.
He paints a picture musically his way just as Neil does one in his own way.

Thats what makes drumming so cool is that everyone has their own voice.

But I don't understand what that clip has to do with a NP thread. Are you expected Neil to play fusion chops in a rock setting?
__________________
My babies -
Big Yamaha - Baby Roland - Lil Rodgers
Reply With Quote
  #865  
Old 04-09-2010, 09:15 PM
DrumEatDrum's Avatar
DrumEatDrum DrumEatDrum is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 7,725
Default Re: Neil Peart

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strangelove View Post
Perhaps it is my old age, but to me, solos mean very little to nothing from any musical standpoint at all. Most are not pleasant to listen to, although, like watching a very good athletic event, can be entertaining in that sense.

.
I'm the same way. I'd rather here the band play another song than listen the drummer do solo.

Kind of funny, Eric Singer is on the cover of Modern Drummer, and he mentions he doesn't really like to take solos any more, but often the rest of the band wants him to so they can take a break (of course, he's a hired gun, not a band member, so if the boss says take a solo, you do what your paid to do.)
Reply With Quote
  #866  
Old 04-09-2010, 09:23 PM
Pocket-full-of-gold's Avatar
Pocket-full-of-gold Pocket-full-of-gold is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia.
Posts: 9,870
Default Re: Neil Peart

Quote:
Originally Posted by LinearDrummer View Post
Thats what makes drumming so cool is that everyone has their own voice.
Well said sir.

Indeed it would be a boring existence if we all played the same. 99.9% of the greats, wouldn't be great....they just be great copiers. We wouldn't have threads running to over 20 pages long, we wouldn't need this forum to discuss gear and how best to acheive 'your' sound....we'd all play the same gear, the same way. And above all, we wouldn't be discussing what drummers are to our particular taste. No-one HAS to like a particular drummer, but anyone who's been playing at the top level for so many years is certainly worthy of respect, even if you don't dig their particular style.
__________________
What's the best cape for running away from a gig?
Reply With Quote
  #867  
Old 04-09-2010, 09:46 PM
Zumba_Zumba's Avatar
Zumba_Zumba Zumba_Zumba is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 169
Default Re: Neil Peart

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
+1. I had the same exact thought. haha. Where has he been?

He must be busy standing in line for tickets for the upcoming tour!
That, or he hasn't come to yet from passing out after reading that post. I have a feeling we will hear from the mighty Michael Drums soon.
__________________
Give me a liter of cola.
Reply With Quote
  #868  
Old 05-16-2010, 06:22 PM
Strangelove's Avatar
Strangelove Strangelove is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere west of sanity
Posts: 1,133
Default Re: Neil Peart

BTW, here is a great cover of Red Sector A by a guy that uses totally acoustic drums:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h_Li...eature=related
Reply With Quote
  #869  
Old 06-20-2010, 04:32 PM
Jeremy Bender's Avatar
Jeremy Bender Jeremy Bender is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gulf Coast USA
Posts: 2,096
Default Re: Neil Peart

I have always wondered what the sticking is to a signature lick he plays. It's a flurry of toms and double bass sextuplets. Can anyone accurately transcribe this please?

It occurs at exactly 2:36-2:37 of this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNZru4JG_Uo
__________________
"Music is the traveler crossing our world, meeting so many people, bridging the seas"
Reply With Quote
  #870  
Old 06-20-2010, 06:56 PM
paradiddler's Avatar
paradiddler paradiddler is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: West Metro Atlanta, GA
Posts: 193
Default Re: Neil Peart

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Bender View Post
I have always wondered what the sticking is to a signature lick he plays. It's a flurry of toms and double bass sextuplets. Can anyone accurately transcribe this please?

It occurs at exactly 2:36-2:37 of this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNZru4JG_Uo
Hi Jeremy.

I'm not a transcriber per se, but I saw the lick. All it is really is a roll of two tom strikes, then two bass drum strikes, repeated six times. Four singles repeated six times, or two doubles repeated six times, whichever makes more sense to you. If you listen to "Tom Sawyer" in any of it's recordings, this is what it sounds like. Check out the lick in the Grace Under Pressure Live DVD - very pronounced there.

Hope it helps!
__________________
Omar Alvarado, The Paradiddler
Reply With Quote
  #871  
Old 06-20-2010, 09:12 PM
DrumEatDrum's Avatar
DrumEatDrum DrumEatDrum is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 7,725
Default Re: Neil Peart

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy Bender View Post
I have always wondered what the sticking is to a signature lick he plays. It's a flurry of toms and double bass sextuplets. Can anyone accurately transcribe this please?

It occurs at exactly 2:36-2:37 of this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNZru4JG_Uo
It's pretty much just R L on the hands followed by R L on the feet. Some times he'll throw a flam in place of a distinct R L to give it a little more rhythmic variation (as he does on Distant Early Warning).

There are several books that have the exact transcription for that song.
Reply With Quote
  #872  
Old 06-21-2010, 12:42 AM
CCdrummer CCdrummer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Alberta
Posts: 353
Default Re: Neil Peart

I am looking at the transcription by Bill Wheeler, and its 4 sextuplets, two on hands and then two on feet.
Reply With Quote
  #873  
Old 06-24-2010, 06:43 PM
Zumba_Zumba's Avatar
Zumba_Zumba Zumba_Zumba is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 169
Default Re: Neil Peart

The "four step roll" as it is called in parts of the world. Bonham did a three step roll quite often or would do a fast double for the fourth note. Moby Dick is a great example of the three step roll. "Exit...Stage Left" has lots of this four step roll (Xanadu, etc.)
__________________
Give me a liter of cola.
Reply With Quote
  #874  
Old 06-24-2010, 10:16 PM
Jeremy Bender's Avatar
Jeremy Bender Jeremy Bender is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gulf Coast USA
Posts: 2,096
Default Re: Neil Peart

Thanks for the help guys! It does sound very cool when executed smoothly and up to speed.

I wonder what other drummer uses this and in what style?
__________________
"Music is the traveler crossing our world, meeting so many people, bridging the seas"
Reply With Quote
  #875  
Old 06-25-2010, 01:16 AM
Zumba_Zumba's Avatar
Zumba_Zumba Zumba_Zumba is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 169
Default Re: Neil Peart

Portnoy, Jordison, Tim "Herb" Alexander, Simon Phillips, Alex Van Halen, Greg Bisonnette. To name a few. Other drummers tend to play this with a double stroke on the bass drum. It can be played either with a bass drum lead or hand lead from what I observe.
__________________
Give me a liter of cola.
Reply With Quote
  #876  
Old 11-07-2010, 12:44 PM
jamest's Avatar
jamest jamest is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 43
Default Re: Neil Peart

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strangelove View Post
BTW, here is a great cover of Red Sector A by a guy that uses totally acoustic drums:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h_Li...eature=related
Awsome vid, not a bad job at all!
__________________

"When the going gets tough, the tough get going!"

Reply With Quote
  #877  
Old 11-07-2010, 03:57 PM
scorch whammin's Avatar
scorch whammin scorch whammin is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Savannah, GA USA
Posts: 1,029
Default Re: Neil Peart

Does anyone know where you can get a drumless track for Red Sector A?
Reply With Quote
  #878  
Old 04-06-2011, 07:31 PM
simmsdn simmsdn is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North Pole, AK
Posts: 594
Default Re: Neil Peart

Just went to see the Time Machine Tour 2011 last night in Louisville at the new KFC Yum! Center.

Show was outstanding, Rush played for over 3 hours to include the entire Moving Pictures album.

Neil solo was outstanding as always. They played a lot of lesser known songs.

Encore included La Villa Stangiato. Neil was great the whole night through. I love Rush's self-depricating humor. It's nice to see some highly successful musicians who are capable of making a joke out of themselves and who obviously have a lot of fun on stage performing together. They take their music serious, not themselves.

Interesting, the only time Neil's kit turned around to the electronic side was for a portion of his solo - they focused on Rush-through-Signals and then Roll the Bones through today songs - skipped the mid-80s electronica stuff.

Was surprised to see a lot of parents with their teenagers in there! Great way to expose kids to good music.
__________________
Ludwig Drums; TaylorMade Golf Clubs
http://www.youtube.com/zombie13studio
Reply With Quote
  #879  
Old 04-15-2011, 04:26 AM
NPYYZ's Avatar
NPYYZ NPYYZ is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Portland , Maine
Posts: 25
Default Re: Neil Peart

I've been lurking around here for quite a while and just started posting a day or so ago. I'm 51. I started playing drums at age 14. in 1976 at age 16 I was in the local record shop. I saw this album with a huge double bass kit on the front, it was Rush's All The Worlds A Stage. I'd never heard of them, but because of the kit I bought the album. I got home , put the album on and just couldn't believe what I was hearing. After I finished listening I took the rest of the money I had saved up and went back to the record store and bought Fly By Night, Caress of Steel, and 2112. From that day on my approach to the drums changed. Neil Peart became my idol, my inspiration, and my teacher. I spend every free minute practicing and learning every Rush song I could get my hands on

I continued to develop my drumming skills through listening to Neils playing. He was most definitely my biggest influence. Neil Peart is far from the best drummer in the world. I could name 10 drummers in 10 seconds that are more skilled then Neil, however he is still one of my favorites of all time. Mainly because for me I heard Neil do things first, the multi tom fills, the odd time, the creativity, the precision, the skill.
I've followed Rush and Neil since then and always enjoyed the day when a new rush album would come out. I like them all in there own way.

In 2004 I put a Rush Tribute Band together for one show, It was a local show with a bunch of bands to raise money for cancer. We did an hour and a half set and it was one of the funnest shows I've ever played. Here's the kit I put together for that show.





I even had the DW Edge NP Snare, Yeah I'm a fan.
Reply With Quote
  #880  
Old 04-15-2011, 04:41 AM
sticks4drums
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Neil Peart

Nice kit man. He has been a huge influence on me also.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com