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  #1  
Old 04-16-2010, 03:01 PM
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Default Pretentious music??

"Pretentious" is a work bandied around a lot by critics. I never quite worked out what pretentious music was.

The dictionary tells me that pretentious means:
characterized by assumption of dignity or importance or

making an exaggerated outward show; ostentatious.
Thing is, there's a lot of music that has "an exaggerated outward show" that might be called a lot of things but not usually "pretentious" - fusion, gospel and metal music are the most obvious examples. Prog rock is the usual the victim.

An "assumption of dignity or importance"? You can sometimes see it in a band's demeanour ... but the music?? I mean, all the musos are doing is writing music they think will sound good and then they tweak it until everyone's happy.

So the music isn't three chords or straight fours - that just means the musicians like to carry on a bit and get bored with the usual humdrum. I can't see the pretence, myself.

Am I missing something?
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Old 04-16-2010, 03:11 PM
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Default Re: Pretentious music??

Critics, ha! A person whose job it is not to create anything on it's own, but rather to pick apart works that talented people have sacrificed for...
If someone could give me an example of truly pretentious music, then I could perhaps form an opinion. As it is, my opinion of critics isn't terribly high.
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Old 04-16-2010, 03:19 PM
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Default Re: Pretentious music??

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Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
"Pretentious" is a work bandied around a lot by critics. I never quite worked out what pretentious music was.

The dictionary tells me that pretentious means:
characterized by assumption of dignity or importance or

making an exaggerated outward show; ostentatious.
Thing is, there's a lot of music that has "an exaggerated outward show" that might be called a lot of things but not usually "pretentious" - fusion, gospel and metal music are the most obvious examples. Prog rock is the usual the victim.

An "assumption of dignity or importance"? You can sometimes see it in a band's demeanour ... but the music?? I mean, all the musos are doing is writing music they think will sound good and then they tweak it until everyone's happy.

So the music isn't three chords or straight fours - that just means the musicians like to carry on a bit and get bored with the usual humdrum. I can't see the pretence, myself.

Am I missing something?
I think when applied to music, the definition of pretentious leans more towards "assumption of importance". In other words, presenting the music in a cocky or presumptious manner with the artist believing he's/she's better than he/she actually is. Perhaps KG might fall into that catagory, whereas Elvis would not. I think it's more of a self hype observation. Something that has the outward appearance of substance, skill & gravity but underneath, lacks the sincerity & depth portrayed with such confidence on the surface.

Agree with Larry, it's all bollocks anyhow.
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Old 04-16-2010, 03:58 PM
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Default Re: Pretentious music??

Good one, Pol. I wish I could offer a more articulate opinion, but I'd say there's music that says 'listen at me, aren't I impressive', and there's music that feels and is impressive.

I think one just knows by listening and feeling.

PS- sorry, real crappy response in hindsight, but I cant think of anything else to say.
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Old 04-16-2010, 04:02 PM
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Default Re: Pretentious music??

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Something that has the outward appearance of substance, skill & gravity but underneath, lacks the sincerity & depth portrayed with such confidence on the surface.
Yeah, that's what I find confusing. How do you give an outward appearance of substance, skill and gravity while really being crap?

I guess some would say that experimental music does that since some of the practitioners come up with strangely hifalutin comments about what their beeps and buzzes mean, but really it's just musos creating odd soundscapes because they like odd soundscapes, just as Jackson Pollock likes to hurl paint at huge canvases.
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Old 04-16-2010, 04:03 PM
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Default Re: Pretentious music??

for me, pretencious is the same as take your self to serious, whatever your expression are. be it one chord or 150 strings. a poem or a bricksone in 1500 pages. But that has its place also, i like when people think they got something. Why do they have to be achame when they admit they think their genious? I think its refresshing. And sometimes hilarious.
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Old 04-16-2010, 04:19 PM
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Default Re: Pretentious music??

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Yeah, that's what I find confusing. How do you give an outward appearance of substance, skill and gravity while really being crap?
Ask Lady Gaga or KIS.
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Old 04-16-2010, 04:20 PM
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Default Re: Pretentious music??

I just realized that my screenname sounds a little pretentious, Larryace, like I'm this self important person or something. Actually I dislike that kind of perception. My company's name is Ace Electric. I just picked a quick and dirty name at the time. I had NO IDEA it was going to be a lifetime thing ha ha. In retrospect, I should have used my real name, like Jay Norem used to before he had to go underground for a while...
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Old 04-16-2010, 05:05 PM
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Default Re: Pretentious music??

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for me, pretencious is the same as take your self to serious, whatever your expression are. be it one chord or 150 strings. a poem or a bricksone in 1500 pages. But that has its place also, i like when people think they got something. Why do they have to be achame when they admit they think their genious? I think its refresshing. And sometimes hilarious.
But that's the thing, Swing (hey, that rhymes). Why did they play that one chord for a whole song? Because they felt like doing something a bit different. Why 150 strings? Same reason. 1500 pages? Because the author kept on thinking of more stuff to put in.

KIS, maybe Lady Gaga is pretentious (I don't know because I've only seen a couple of clips) but her songs and music are just modern pop from what I've gathered. I guess she likes that style and she guessed it would sell, and maybe figured that it would be a good vehicle for an "outrageous" video. But even that's all just a combo of business and fun with a bit of shit-stirring.

Critics and musos seem to look at things differently. The former worry about what it all means and what artists are about. Musos normally just worry about the music sounding good and having a vibe about it.

It's funny because I like lots of music that's accused of being pretentious but half the time I don't even know what the words are about, just that the music sounds wonderful. You know what REALLY peeves me about critics? They often hardly talk about the actual music. You find out about the band's home town, the bands that some of the members used to play in, the books they read, and maybe what some punk rocker thought of them.

I like an album review to say ... Song 1, a lively rocker, funny lyrics, straight up beat, nice guitar solo ... Song 2, the obligatory ballad, great singing and keys, Song 3 has a reggae-ish feel etc etc. That's all anyone wants to know, isn't it? What style the songs are in, the highlights, the bits that worked and the bits that didn't.

Larry, maybe you could go underground for a while too? You could sign off your posts as Ralph Jones or something similarly unassuming ... hey, no, I'm not really Larryace haha ... do I seem like the kinda guy who'd choose a dicky name like that? C'mon! Nah, just call me Ralph, man :)
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Old 04-16-2010, 06:12 PM
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Default Re: Pretentious music??

I don't really have anything to add... This just reminded me of one of my favorite album/CD liners. One of the King Crimson 25th anniversary reissues (discipline? lark tongues? i don't remember which). The background for all of the inner liner notes is a collage of old newspaper/magazine clippings containing seriously negative reviews of the album's original release. hilarious.
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Old 04-16-2010, 07:08 PM
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Default Re: Pretentious music??

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Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
"Pretentious" is a work bandied around a lot by critics. I never quite worked out what pretentious music was.

The dictionary tells me that pretentious means:
characterized by assumption of dignity or importance or

making an exaggerated outward show; ostentatious.
Thing is, there's a lot of music that has "an exaggerated outward show" that might be called a lot of things but not usually "pretentious" - fusion, gospel and metal music are the most obvious examples. Prog rock is the usual the victim.

An "assumption of dignity or importance"? You can sometimes see it in a band's demeanour ... but the music?? I mean, all the musos are doing is writing music they think will sound good and then they tweak it until everyone's happy.

So the music isn't three chords or straight fours - that just means the musicians like to carry on a bit and get bored with the usual humdrum. I can't see the pretence, myself.

Am I missing something?
I believe the word comes from "pretense" which is derived from pretend, but implies a certain false or deceptive air to cover up one's real self. OK, how about that group from the 1980s called The Pretenders? ;-} I actually have no idea what kind of music would be pretentious, but music critics worry about alot of things that musicians don't, lol.

I agree with your Lady Gaga analogy from an appearance standpoint. She is a brunette Italian American that looks like a plastic bleached blonde corruption of the chick from Pulp Fiction. Now she is as pretentious as they come! I saw a picture of her before all the bleachings and caked on makeup and she was very attractive. Now she looks fake. But of course, who hasn't gone that route in the pop music business already? Michael J, Madonna, David Bowie, Elton John, early Genesis Peter Gabriel, Boy George, God, the list just never ends, does it? All that said, I would not consider Lady Gaga's or any of the aforementioned artists' music as pretentious. It's a little above cookie cutter pop, and she does write her own stuff, as well as songs for other pop artists. I think the critics are talking about appearances and not musical styles. I have no idea what a pretentious music style would even be. But there are alot of musical performers out there that really get into a hollywood drama thing than others, Especially after music videos started.

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Old 04-17-2010, 02:23 AM
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Default Re: Pretentious music??

I have heard jazz called pretentious from people because they think it's dumb. I guess they think it doesn't sound good so the people who listen to it only listen to it because they want to put themselves on a higher level and above everyone else. I have tried arguing with them about it, but they are fools.
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Old 04-17-2010, 02:46 AM
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I have heard jazz called pretentious from people because they think it's dumb. I guess they think it doesn't sound good so the people who listen to it only listen to it because they want to put themselves on a higher level and above everyone else. I have tried arguing with them about it, but they are fools.
Funny thing, isn't it? ... "want to put themselves on a higher level and above everyone else". All they want to do is play music that gives them a buzz.

Sure, some musicians have a superiority complex because they're insecure, and for some reason musicians are more likely to have that weird sense of ego-driven status about their prowess, probably more so than gifted accountants and doctors - more kin to lawyers :)

But ultimately they are still just playing in a way that makes them happiest. What they do when not playing is not something I care about.

And yes, Doctor, artifice and fantasy is a huge part of pop.
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Old 04-17-2010, 04:07 AM
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Default Re: Pretentious music??

But really, can music be pretentious? Or is that strictly a human quality?
After all, pretentious people think they are more important than they are, right? I suppose you could write songs that overstate their own importance.

Here, I'll start.

Title:

"The most important song ever written"

This is the most important song ever written
As soon as I wrote it, I was forever smitten
And when the words of this song are heard by the human race
It will absolutely transport them to a far better place.



Does that qualify as a pretentious lyric?
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Old 04-17-2010, 02:39 PM
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Default Re: Pretentious music??

Depends on the delivery...if it's dead serious, then yes. If it's ironic, then the exact opposite...probably, unless it's being ironic in order to be very serious and then it might actually be pretentious after all.


This sounds like fun, I'll have a go.

"Giraffe"

Oh!

You are so

Tall.

Too tall for me,

Like a ladderrrrrr (FX: space echo)

But all the people, they want to see you go-o.

Save him! Save the giraffe-ee
There's no hope for him otherwise, can't you see.

You can't because you're too blind to see the giraffe-ee.

Why won't anyone see the giraffe-ee-ee-ee.
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Old 04-17-2010, 03:01 PM
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Default Re: Pretentious music??

All this pretentious stuff got me thinking.

At my next gig I'm gonna tie the sleeves of a sweater around my neck and carry a tennis racket or perhaps a golf club out on stage with me.
I'll sip champagne in between tunes from a fluted stemmed glass.
I'll even have some French cheese and crackers on a small round table next to me.

Of corse, I'll also begin to smoke a pipe and drive a Volvo SUV with a stupid bumper sticker that pertains to an environmental or educational organization.
I'll begin to speak with an accent that no one from the area that I live in speaks with. The Kennedy family comes to mind!
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Old 04-17-2010, 04:30 PM
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Default Re: Pretentious music??

Bob, I'm sure everyone will be fooled into thinking you're a high society guy :)

Larry and PQleyR, you guys are total geniuseseses! ... "As soon as I wrote it, I was forever smitten" ... "Like a ladderrrrrr (FX: space echo)" - potent stuff!

One thing I notice is that if a lyricist is keen on poetry and using typical olde worlde poetic devices they get hit with the P-word. It seems that not being straightforward and earthy is assumed to be pretentious.

A bit of cross referencing ... this conversation reminded me of an old toon I made about the kinds of artist attitude that is never referred to as pretentious ... it's in the Drumming Cartoons thread.
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Old 04-17-2010, 04:32 PM
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Default Re: Pretentious music??

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Yeah, that's what I find confusing. How do you give an outward appearance of substance, skill and gravity while really being crap?

I guess some would say that experimental music does that since some of the practitioners come up with strangely hifalutin comments about what their beeps and buzzes mean, but really it's just musos creating odd soundscapes because they like odd soundscapes, just as Jackson Pollock likes to hurl paint at huge canvases.
You get a good producer.

Couldn't you argue that most music is really pretentious and there are only the few who are really great artists? In that sense, the others are just pretending to be artists. :P

I've met many people over the years who would argue, "life is too short, why listen to anything but the greatest music?" Those people would tend to devalue anything in the popular realm of music-making.

I could give a few examples that I think are pretentious music.

Eleanor Rigby is pretending to be a classical piece of music by using a string quartet. this was the piece that redefined The Beatles as not just a pop sensation though. Was it pure marketing or artistic expression?

The lush orchestrations of Barry White and the Love Unlimited Orchestra.Kind of over done; but very well-crafted.

Anything put out by Motley Crue, which of course also has the pretentious spelling of the name. But some of that stuff is really well-produced.

Marketing artist like Metallica, Madonna or Kurt Cobain as great artists is pretentious to begin with.

What about something like 21 Century Schizoid Man.. Well, prog is the victim. But wasn't the intent of prog to be quite pretentious from the out set. The Moody Blues are the ultimate example, using the orchestra. The excesses of ELP, Yes "doing what classical music does," pretending to be like classical music.

In and of itself, there is nothing wrong with pretense in music.The example, that I gave of Kid Rock's All summer Long, is a well-crafted pop tune. Whether you like it or not, or like him as an artist. You can take apart the song and see that it is well-crafted. But to call Kid Rock a great artist or market him or Kenny G like that, that is somewhat of a marketing fraud.
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Old 04-17-2010, 06:21 PM
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Default Re: Pretentious music??

i think music itself isn't pretentious. the individual(s) who make the music or who listen to it can be, but not the tunes themselves.
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Old 04-17-2010, 07:56 PM
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Default Re: Pretentious music??

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But really, can music be pretentious? Or is that strictly a human quality?
A human quality I think. Deltadrummer brought up some interesting examples of musical pretension, but is it that or fusion, and where does one draw the line? We as humans can deliberately hide behind facades and put on pretenses, mostly in the quest to present ourselves as greater than we actually are, but always to be something we are not. I don't know that I have ever heard music that is doing the same thing. I'll think about this some more - I was thinking that some of Zappas stuff was along those lines, but changed my mind. His parodies are in the mind. The music itself was a genuine as the genre he was mocking.
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Old 04-17-2010, 09:37 PM
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Default Re: Pretentious music??

Here in Eastern Europe the word pretentious as it applies to music, simply means that it is a kind of music requiring technical prowess. There is nothing positive or negative about it. It just is what it is. This is also the first place I've heard the word without the negative connotation.

For example Stravinky's Rite of Spring is pretentious to a Romanian, as is much of the music composed by Enescu, their most beloved composer. But they also consider the stupidly bloated, intricate and hated Soviet propaganda symphonies of the 60s pretentious as well.
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Old 04-18-2010, 03:41 AM
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Here in Eastern Europe the word pretentious as it applies to music, simply means that it is a kind of music requiring technical prowess. There is nothing positive or negative about it. It just is what it is. This is also the first place I've heard the word without the negative connotation.

For example Stravinky's Rite of Spring is pretentious to a Romanian, as is much of the music composed by Enescu, their most beloved composer. But they also consider the stupidly bloated, intricate and hated Soviet propaganda symphonies of the 60s pretentious as well.
nice and well put. skl!
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Old 04-18-2010, 03:43 AM
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Couldn't you argue that most music is really pretentious and there are only the few who are really great artists? In that sense, the others are just pretending to be artists. :P

... In and of itself, there is nothing wrong with pretense in music.
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Here in Eastern Europe the word pretentious as it applies to music, simply means that it is a kind of music requiring technical prowess. There is nothing positive or negative about it. It just is what it is. This is also the first place I've heard the word without the negative connotation.
I think you guys have hit the spot that I've found perplexing. That's it ... why should alleged pretension in music be necessarily a bad thing? At best it's inspired, inspiring, entertaining and can take you off on a fantastic journey.

As I said, I like lots of music that's called pretentious. When I put myself in the artists' shoes I imagine them in a studio, beating the song into shape, which is something all musos who play arranged music do. Why not add an orchestra to make dramatic or showband music sound grandiose if you are lucky enough to be able to access the lushness and power an orchestra can provide?

If artists like to play three chords with distortion and shout crudiities or if they want to go the full monty and create a massive pseudo-orchestral piece, or if they want to adopt a quasi-alien stage look, in a way it's all the same thing - just doing stuff that gives them good feelings.

Henry Cow is my flavour of the month - just bought the box set. The music knocks me out even if some of the lyrics are dramatic with a presumption that we know our Greek mythology (uh, I'm a big fan of the original 1981 Clash of the Titans) - from Beautiful as the Moon:
Careworn and all alone - First days
Charon the unborn - Days erased
Death: Venus unfurled -
The world we lost we found - spoiled
No sun No birds No stars No form

Evened we are fallen all before time
Lief lorn we unlearn all crime
Lives - levelled as lies
A star mourns souls ungraved - ignored
Slow wheels: Mira. Algol. Maia
It's pretentious and I don't care, especially when I hear the compelling emotion Dagmar puts into it. Nor do I care that they were crazily idealistic Commies (I'm sure they meant well). There's there's Chris Cutler's pretentious-looking drumming that's hugely entertaining to watch and listen to. Bring it on, I say :)
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Old 04-18-2010, 03:30 PM
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Default Re: Pretentious music??

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in a way it's all the same thing - just doing stuff that gives them good feelings.
Aha! I think I have an answer...

Pretention is when people make music that doesn't really give them good feelings in order that other people might like it! Insincerity! That's pretention.
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Old 04-18-2010, 08:44 PM
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Aha! I think I have an answer...

Pretention is when people make music that doesn't really give them good feelings in order that other people might like it! Insincerity! That's pretention.
Hehe ... isn't that noble and selfless sacrifice?
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Old 04-18-2010, 09:59 PM
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Aha! I think I have an answer...

Pretension is when people make music that doesn't really give them good feelings in order that other people might like it! Insincerity! That's pretension.
Good one. We tend to think of it in that way, don't we? There is a notion of sincerity tied into the question.

Polly, I bet you wouldn't be surprised to find that your question could be construed as gendered. Pretense-female, objectivity - male.

Going back to Stravinsky, he saw music that was overly ornate and orchestrated as female and 'less than.' He even criticized his own teacher, Rimsky- Korsakov for relying too heavily on orchestration. Stravinsky liked the more rugged teutonic masculine writing of Bach, Beethoven and Brahms. But it is the heavily orchestrated Firebird ballet that most people remember from Stravinsky.

Zappa actually belongs to the objectivist camp. It is an interesting question to ask; but he saw his avant-garde works as the real deal and songs even as great as Yellow Snow were just stuff he had to do. That may be an extreme but certainly Valley Girl would fall in that commercializing mold.

There was a point with prog where I came about the same realization, it is the pretension that makes it fun. It was the earlier silly Crimson that I always liked more than the later stuff with Wetton. When they start to take themselves too seriously it gets lost.(That was that generation though. They were a very serious bunch.)
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Old 04-18-2010, 10:13 PM
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Default Re: Pretentious music??

"Pretentious" is a concept applied to original music. Anyone ever heard of a cover band being called pretentious?

They should. By playing other bands' music, they are pretending to be another band. That's pretentious.

Just play what's in your heart.
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Old 04-18-2010, 11:28 PM
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Default Re: Pretentious music??

although i play it, i always saw jazz as a pretentious form of music....a lot of musicians are too proud to say that they are "jazz musicians"
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Old 04-18-2010, 11:53 PM
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Default Re: Pretentious music??

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although i play it, i always saw jazz as a pretentious form of music....a lot of musicians are too proud to say that they are "jazz musicians"
Not around these parts.......always think of it as a purely honest expression of music from the heart without the pretense banner attached to it......... just me

Proud to call myself a jazz musician!
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Old 04-19-2010, 12:44 AM
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although i play it, i always saw jazz as a pretentious form of music....a lot of musicians are too proud to say that they are "jazz musicians"
The type of music isn't pretentious, It's musicians that are pretentious!
You can't blame the genre, No Matter What Music Type It Is! It happens in all genres.
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Old 04-19-2010, 12:51 AM
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Not around these parts.......always think of it as a purely honest expression of music from the heart without the pretense banner attached to it......... just me

Proud to call myself a jazz musician!
Yes, I actually did'nt say what I really meant, like always!

I meant jazz listeners who don't actually play it. I don't know why but if you play it, you seem to be humbled by it, but sitting around in jazz clubs sipping wine at 20years old or so....well a lot of those people sem like posers to me. Kind of like teenagers who try and act all chilled because hendrix did it, you know?..but then again, I'm just lumping people in with each other.

I'm just speaking from experience, i know a guitarist who wanted to hit every club for the jazz fest, i said " but you don't like jazz"....."yes i do!!"...."name me one jazz song or play me one jazz chord on you're guitar"...."haha no"

I really hate pretentious posers...even more than wiggers, they is cool!

then again a lot of music requires you to act pretentious when you are talking about it! You can't exactly say "that was a slammin' E sharp" when talking about Beethoven's moonlight sonata now can you? haha, imagine if people spoke like that about orchesteral music!
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Old 04-19-2010, 12:52 AM
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The type of music isn't pretentious, It's musicians that are pretentious!
You can't blame the genre, No Matter What Music Type It Is! It happens in all genres.
Well experience has taught me in one corner you have the "talkers" {really pretentious folks at times}..and in the other corner the actual players {getting about just playing the music honestly from the heart without pretense}.

No genre is exempt from this observation i've noted in life Bob agreed....
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Old 04-19-2010, 12:55 AM
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Yes, I actually did'nt say what I really meant, like always!

I meant jazz listeners who don't actually play it. I don't know why but if you play it, you seem to be humbled by it, but sitting around in jazz clubs sipping wine at 20years old or so....well a lot of those people sem like posers to me. Kind of like teenagers who try and act all chilled because hendrix did it, you know?..but then again, I'm just lumping people in with each other.

I'm just speaking from experience, i know a guitarist who wanted to hit every club for the jazz fest, i said " but you don't like jazz"....."yes i do!!"...."name me one jazz song or play me one jazz chord on you're guitar"...."haha no"

I really hate pretentious posers...even more than wiggers, they is cool!
Fully understood now on your POV and in full aggreement........
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Old 04-19-2010, 01:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Bosphorus View Post
Yes, I actually did'nt say what I really meant, like always!

I meant jazz listeners who don't actually play it. I don't know why but if you play it, you seem to be humbled by it, but sitting around in jazz clubs sipping wine at 20years old or so....well a lot of those people sem like posers to me. Kind of like teenagers who try and act all chilled because hendrix did it, you know?..but then again, I'm just lumping people in with each other.

I'm just speaking from experience, i know a guitarist who wanted to hit every club for the jazz fest, i said " but you don't like jazz"....."yes i do!!"...."name me one jazz song or play me one jazz chord on you're guitar"...."haha no"

I really hate pretentious posers...even more than wiggers, they is cool!

then again a lot of music requires you to act pretentious when you are talking about it! You can't exactly say "that was a slammin' E sharp" when talking about Beethoven's moonlight sonata now can you?
The man who introduced me to jazz never played a musical instrument of any kind! He simply loved jazz! He would sit in his recliner almost every night and listen while he read. He was a brilliant engineer who worked in the aviation industry. He was my best friends father. He understood the music and he explained many things about it to me.
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Old 04-19-2010, 01:24 AM
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The man who introduced me to jazz never played a musical instrument of any kind! He simply loved jazz! He would sit in his recliner almost every night and listen while he read. He was a brilliant engineer who worked in the aviation industry. He was my best friends father. He understood the music and he explained many things about it to me.
That's clearly not the kind of "listener" Bosphorus was referring to Bob. Know folks like that myself who don't play but have offered some good insights on music.

He was covering the social standing {status symbol} types that are all over the music with what they have to say about it to gain the one up over others but really don't dig the sounds in real life they're on about one bit. Now THAT's pretentious human behavior.....
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Old 04-19-2010, 01:34 AM
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That's clearly not the kind of "listener" Bosphorus was referring to Bob. Know folks like that myself who don't play but have offered some good insights on music.

He was covering the social standing types that are all over the music with what they have to say about it to gain the one up over others but really don't dig the sounds in real life they're on about one bit. Now THAT's pretentious human behavior.....
I was just making a point that all listeners aren't pretentious. This man truly understood and knew what he was talking about. He never said anything that wasn't a fact. He never criticized, He just gave insight! He would travel to New Orleans frequently with his job. He saw many of the greats play many times. He was a true gracious fan of the music. He just didn't play!
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Old 04-19-2010, 01:46 AM
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I was just making a point that all listeners aren't pretentious. This man truly understood and knew what he was talking about. He never said anything that wasn't a fact. He never criticized, He just gave insight! He would travel to New Orleans frequently with his job. He saw many of the greats play many times. He was a true gracious fan of the music. He just didn't play!
Sounds great! Like I say know many of those folks I meet each year a festival concerts and such from across the country and who come up from the other side of the border. Really focused critical listeners {non-players} who know and truly ENJOY the music in question.

The ones that irk me are the ones that go to concerts and talk the whole time and never really listen or hear a single note played and then go on to tell their friends that they saw the "right" folks to try and get the one up on the social ladder over them. Prententious?.... oh yes.
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Old 04-19-2010, 01:54 AM
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Default Re: Pretentious music??

The one thing that I have learned about jazz Stan is this. People either like it or they don't.
There is no such thing as a casual jazz listener.
I made the mistake of trying to share my love of jazz with both friends and musicians that don't get it.
They try to listen, then the get that glazed over look in their eye. Kind of like a husband on a shopping trip with his wife LOL! He his totally lost! A fish out of water!
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Old 04-19-2010, 02:00 AM
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The one thing that I have learned about jazz Stan is this. People either like it or they don't.
There is no such thing as a casual jazz listener.
I made the mistake of trying to share my love of jazz with both friends and musicians that don't get it.
They try to listen, then the get that glazed over look in their eye. Kind of like a husband on a shopping trip with his wife LOL! He his totally lost! A fish out of water!
It can happen in any form of music Bob...like people nodding off at a symphony concert but later proclaiming at a high brow cocktail party of the music in question {actually unheard at the time} being a life changing experience :}

Humans are a funny lot.....
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Old 04-19-2010, 02:08 AM
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It can happen in any form of music Bob...like people nodding off at a symphony concert but later proclaiming at a high brow cocktail party of the music in question {actually unheard at the time} being a life changing experience :}

Humans are a funny lot.....
I just watched a man on TV win $1000 because he wound an entire roll of bathroom tissue around his body without tearing it from the roll!
I'm totally bored! The world is a stupid place! If there was a great jazz concert on, no one would be watching it! It is like an episode of the Simpsons!
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