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  #161  
Old 03-25-2010, 03:39 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

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Originally Posted by Swiss Matthias View Post
I don't like to say I like this style or I hate that style. There are a few styles I don't like to listen to, but basically I love well (or very well :) ) played music, and I don't care for badly played stuff. I also like some well programmed (and thought through) music.

There are some exceptions, meaning not very brilliantly played, but nonetheless beautiful or attractive for any reason pieces of music.

If a group of classy musicians play a relatively simple piece of pop music, it will have groove, it will have subtlety, it will have dynamics, it will have feel (meaning the musicians know what they're "saying") etc. Of course the song must be good, or at least appeal to me too, but while bad musicians can ruin everything, good ones will make many things worth listening to.
Matthias, I don't like to say I like or don't like a whole style either. I never wanted to become musically close-minded like my father, and I was determined to keep up with new music and appreciate it for what it was. However, hard core versions of metal, rap and techno have defeated my ideals of hip old-fartdom. My ears outvoted my ideals.

Generally, I try not to dis any musicians or style but I've noticed that while I've remained polite and positive others have had no qualms about getting stuck into Meg (Hi JP!). So I thought I'd pass on a bit of negative straight shooting from my end :) It's not my usual style because I believe there's something out there for everybody, including the cloth-eared unwashed masses :)

And no, WS is not typical "catchy pop" - they are a one-off, there's no one like them. I'm more of an indie, prog, jazz, fusion and blues gal than a pop gal as a rule although I'm a sucker for an appealing melody and/or harmony.

I don't care how skilled musicians are (or not). I was into over-the-top virtuosity when I was young but not any more, apart from special cases like Mahavishnu, who aimed to create music that was so out there that it was transcendent and succeeded spectacularly. John McL's One Truth Band, which could be loosely thought of as Mahivishnu Lite, was one of the most glorious live acts I've ever seen. You had to be there to believe it; the album didn't capture half of it. And if you get a chance to see the remarkable Art Ensemble of Chicago, do it. I'm talking about music that takes you to another place. On the other hand, my favourite gig ever was Queen in the mid-70s.

Some music touches me for no particular reason - like the White Stripes. As Jeff said, Jack's artistic vision is great. I would never have imagined such a pure ostinato approach to drumming could be so effective, but somehow it does. I've tried to think of more "interesting" ways of drumming to Seven Nation Army but not one of the extra things I've thought of would have made the song any more effective and most likely the changes I've thought of would dilute its effect.

JT, if Meg's a puppet, bear in mind that a lot of drummers, even "good" ones, wouldn't be capable of helping Jack realise his musical ideas so well. Meg needs openness, discipline, solidity, flexibility, selflessness and the intelligence to understand his ideas to do what she does. It's harder than it looks.

As for the Ayreon track, it was very well done but I felt that, for such an ambitious work, there was nothing new and the male singer's mannered delivery was irritating. If I was going to listen to a heavy opus I'd probably go for something that took itself less seriously and had less of an AOR angle like Todd Rundgren's Singring and the Glass Guitar or Uncle Frank's Joe's Garage (was that the Central Scrutiniser I heard on Pt 3 of the Ayreon track? :)

Not knocking it. If I was on a desert island with only Ayreon that would be ok with me; it's cool music. But I'm not about to become an Ayreon fan or a metalhead because there's so much other music I'd rather listen to. Having said that, BassDriver recently posted a link to Tool's Reflection and it blew my mind. I dunno, there's no accounting for taste.
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  #162  
Old 03-25-2010, 04:26 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

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Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
JT, if Meg's a puppet, bear in mind that a lot of drummers, even "good" ones, wouldn't be capable of helping Jack realise his musical ideas so well. Meg needs openness, discipline, solidity, flexibility, selflessness and the intelligence to understand his ideas to do what she does. It's harder than it looks.

As for the Ayreon track, it was very well done but I felt that, for such an ambitious work, there was nothing new and the male singer's mannered delivery was irritating. If I was going to listen to a heavy opus I'd probably go for something that took itself less seriously and had less of an AOR angle like Todd Rundgren's Singring and the Glass Guitar or Uncle Frank's Joe's Garage (was that the Central Scrutiniser I heard on Pt 3 of the Ayreon track? :)

Not knocking it. If I was on a desert island with only Ayreon that would be ok with me; it's cool music. But I'm not about to become an Ayreon fan or a metalhead because there's so much other music I'd rather listen to. Having said that, BassDriver recently posted a link to Tool's Reflection and it blew my mind. I dunno, there's no accounting for taste.
Ok I disagree with the originality thing as he recruits guest musicians for every album and creates music that takes you to a different world well for me but that's why I asked your opinion that's cool =).

On Meg being a puppet I really honestly believe most other drummers could do what Meg does and I really think that yeah she has discipline to hold back but I also think that she doesn't need the discipline because she is so very limited technically. And I get it I really do, I love some of the songs that The White Stripes produce and I think she is perfect for the band, you introduced me to Icky Thump and I think it's really damn good. But I really think that people are trying to make her sound far better than she actually is.

So to quote you Polly we will have to agree to disagree =).

I can say one thing, she has superb balance, because I don't think I could sit on a throne that high without falling off (0:40), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4rYa...eature=related
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  #163  
Old 03-25-2010, 05:02 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

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Ok I disagree with the originality thing as he recruits guest musicians for every album and creates music that takes you to a different world well for me but that's why I asked your opinion that's cool =).

On Meg being a puppet I really honestly believe most other drummers could do what Meg does and I really think that yeah she has discipline to hold back but I also think that she doesn't need the discipline because she is so very limited technically. And I get it I really do, I love some of the songs that The White Stripes produce and I think she is perfect for the band, you introduced me to Icky Thump and I think it's really damn good. But I really think that people are trying to make her sound far better than she actually is.

So to quote you Polly we will have to agree to disagree =).

I can say one thing, she has superb balance, because I don't think I could sit on a throne that high without falling off (0:40), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4rYa...eature=related
I've heard a lotta of off-the-wall stuff, JT, and none of the musical devices in that Ayreon vid were things I haven't heard before. They were aiming high so I judge by those standards.

I don't know why so many people think that what Meg plays is all that she can play. Very few drummers get the chance to show off their whole range. Obviously she's limited and sounds clunky in some songs, but for the most part she executes far more solidly than a lot of neighbourhood drummers who, instead of noodling sloppily, could do well to learn to play ostinatos to Meg's level.

I'm sure she could add simple fills here and there if she wanted to (or was allowed to?). She rides with quarter notes whether the tempo is slow or fast. Take that link you posted ... she could play fills in that slow tune but that's not her role (but yeah, she rides high!).

I doubt many other drummers would be able to behave themselves well enough to make WS music work. After a few songs I'd be pleading "Jaaack, PLEASE can I do this fill here ... please please please". A lot of us would and that would just screw it up. Extra notes in that music would probably lead to less expressiveness. It makes sense to have a drummer who can execute what's required without getting bored and disappearing off into Noodle Land.

I don't want to make out she's a hot drummer but I like the concept - super simple, super clean, great drum kit sound. No one's ever taken rock drumming minimalism to that level and the WS show us just how deep the rabbit hole goes. I love the space she leaves in which the music can happen but I'm an 1/8th note ticker from way back and I'm not sure I could feel comfortable trying to groove with all those yawning voids.

Here's another great little WS tune: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0L7FuA8Rry8&
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  #164  
Old 03-25-2010, 05:14 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

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Originally Posted by JT1 View Post
I can say one thing, she has superb balance, because I don't think I could sit on a throne that high without falling off (0:40), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4rYa...eature=related
wow! you're not kidding! i didn't know she sat so high. she's almost standing straight up! i could never play like that either, at least not very well. i'll bet she's up like that so she can be seen by the crowd over that very high rack tom (holy tom angles!)
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  #165  
Old 03-26-2010, 03:57 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

The whole point is that Meg is perfect for that band. My bass player (also a drummer) and I talked about this yesterday- she brings an energy to WS, and she's irreplaceable.
She'll probably never be in another band, but she's the best drummer in the world.

...for The White Stripes.
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  #166  
Old 03-26-2010, 04:34 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

It takes a lot of security and confidence in one's time feel to leave space between the notes. I used to not be able to ride quarter notes, I couldn't deal with that much space, though it felt like I wasn't trying hard enough or something. Wrong approach. Luckily that all changed, and now, many times during gigs, I am not riding at all. Just kick and snare, and my right hand is just hanging there. And it works great. People look at me sometimes when I do that, and it's like they're saying to themselves.."He's not even using his main hand?!?!" Riding quarter notes (where appropriate) sounds so good to me now, because I am secure enough in my time feel that I don't feel the need to mark time every 1/10 of a second. Space in drumbeats sounds great to me now and Meg uses it to her full advantage.
So advanced, it's simple. (sort of)
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  #167  
Old 03-26-2010, 04:48 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

I know it's all matter of opinion, but I really have always disliked the White Stripes because of Meg. They started becoming popular (as in I started HAVING to hear them...) just as I was starting to play drums, and I definitely was not inspired.

I don't play metal.

Simplistic drumming is awesome and has a place in music. One of my favorite drummers is local to Savannah (where I live) and he literally plays like a CAVEMAN. He's ROCK SOLID and has inspired my playing, even after I've become somewhat competent of a drummer.

So, like some of you in this forum, I must be missing something. I just can't jump on the Meg White ROX band wagon.
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  #168  
Old 03-26-2010, 05:13 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

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It takes a lot of security and confidence in one's time feel to leave space between the notes. ... lt like I wasn't trying hard enough or something. ... Luckily that all changed, and now, many times during gigs, I am not riding at all. Just kick and snare, and my right hand is just hanging there. ... Riding quarter notes (where appropriate) sounds so good to me now, because I am secure enough in my time feel that I don't feel the need to mark time every 1/10 of a second. Space in drumbeats sounds great to me now and Meg uses it to her full advantage.
Well done, Larry! That's a good skill you've learned. Ringo was another who could leave those gaps without any riding. Listen to this bass/drum track of A Day in the Life (can't remember who originally posted it but his blood is worth bottling). An aspect of rock drumming that's not always given due attention is the ability to come back in after a stop with real impact - every time. Ringo did that and Meg is good at it too. A necessary survival trait in the WS.

I guess this must put me in the "Meg ROX" camp ... "ROX" ... ha! I feel like I just shaved decades off my life - a wonderful thing given that yesterday I "celebrated" my 100th birthday (ok, it just felt like that).

Maybe we need to create The Meg White Challenge? Create a drum track for Seven Nation Army that's more effective than the original.
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  #169  
Old 03-26-2010, 05:55 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

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Maybe we need to create The Meg White Challenge? Create a drum track for Seven Nation Army that's more effective than the original.
i think it'd be fun to have a contest to create the most over-the-top, overplayed drum track for that song. whoever comes up with the most complicated part wins!
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  #170  
Old 03-26-2010, 06:18 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

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i think it'd be fun to have a contest to create the most over-the-top, overplayed drum track for that song. whoever comes up with the most complicated part wins!
Hmm, which will it be - the metal version or the gospel rendition? How about the prog-fusion Seven Nation Army variations, riding the hats with 16th note triplets? Is there a drumless version out there?
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  #171  
Old 03-26-2010, 06:45 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

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Maybe we need to create The Meg White Challenge? Create a drum track for Seven Nation Army that's more effective than the original.
This is a GREAT idea. And I can get you a drum-less version of the song, I think. It's available on Rock Band 2, so there's got to be a way to yank the audio in practice mode.
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  #172  
Old 03-26-2010, 07:49 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

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Hmm, which will it be - the metal version or the gospel rendition? How about the prog-fusion Seven Nation Army variations, riding the hats with 16th note triplets? Is there a drumless version out there?
Hohohoh, I'm soo in! I'll check my rockband moogs.
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  #173  
Old 03-26-2010, 09:22 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

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Hmm, which will it be - the metal version or the gospel rendition? How about the prog-fusion Seven Nation Army variations, riding the hats with 16th note triplets? Is there a drumless version out there?
Best Idea I've heard in years. I'm in.
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  #174  
Old 03-26-2010, 09:39 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

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Meg White, the worlds most irritating metronome. Theres more to my hate though. When I used to play concerts and stuff with my old band, everyone wanted to try my drums, and they all wanted to play seven nation army! I had to start refusing, since my sticks and cymbals were being bashed to pieces by people who had never played the drums..
Thank you for actually speaking what you feel. Seems like everyone is worshiping White in this thread when the simple fact of the matter is, as a drummer, she sucks. I know minimalism has it's place in drumming but she's not even minimal, she's just flat out bad. Quarter notes and 8th notes just banging incessantly on 2 drums and a cymbal for an entire album, no accents, no dynamics. That is not minimalistic art, that is luck; If she didn't have Jack leading the way with his riffs, she'd certainly not be making a living playing the crap she does. She sounds like, well like you said, someone who doesn't even really know how to play the drums. I'd doubt if she could even diddle.

JT1, you put it very well. I don't think limiting herself has anything to do with it either; I think what she does is really all she can do. I like my share of WS songs, but on the same note, I can't get through an entire Stripes album front to back because she is so painful to listen to for more than a few songs.
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  #175  
Old 03-26-2010, 10:38 PM
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JT1, you put it very well. I don't think limiting herself has anything to do with it either; I think what she does is really all she can do.
you guys are probably right, but it's all by design. i read an interview with jack white someplace where he said he doesn't want her to get any better. he doesn't want her to take lessons or practice. he's deliberately trying to get a naive, ultra simple sound out of her because that's exactly what he's going for with the white stripes.
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  #176  
Old 03-27-2010, 03:08 AM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

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It's mostly pop/rock/dance on radio in Oz too I don't hear metal in Oz radio although I'm sure there's a station or two. I have noticed more metal appearing in TV ads aimed at appealing to young guys.

I'm hoping that metal doesn't get huge here as it has in Scandinavia and the US. I only like a few metal numbers, most of them by either Tool or RATM. I'm a King Crimson nut but their metal side leaves me cold, apart from LTIA. The minute there's Cookie Monsters or machine gun grooves, I'm out. I'd rather hear WS any day.

Metal ain't what it used to be. Now Black Sabbath, that was fun. But this growl growl boogidy boogidy stuff ... gimme a break! lol Where's the charm? Ozzy had it!

I can hardly make out anything that the growlers are saying and when I do it's normally just young men's angst. Wowie zowie. The weird thing is that every metalhead I meet is a fair dinkum lovely guy. I can't put the two together - these fun, intelligent, easygoing guys and this maniacally angry music. I can only guess that they're getting it out of their systems. There might be some value to musical Gestalt therapy that acts as a safety valve, but I's rather not hear it. There ya go. Some of you think WS are primitive and I think modern metal is ugly. No accounting for taste, eh?

Wow, that was a rant ... probably been reading too much Pat Methany talking about Kenny G.

Thaard, I'd love to play Seven Nation Army ... just sit there going thump thump thump with attitude for half a song. Bring it on, I say :)

EDIT: Dios, I agree with Peter E in that more headroom = more "on the button" minimalist playing. It depends on the style though. The lack of headroom in WS creates a certain feel that's appealing. It wouldn't work as well played slick and precise. Dave Grohl has done well for himself too, even though he wouldn't have anywhere near as much headroom as Peter E.
I am one of those guys! I work at trader joes making small talk with people for a living and I love it.

Off the clock.... I rather prefer the technically demanding music because I feel accomplished to learn it, to make the jagged fluid.... I view it as a very complicated kind of skill building routine. I am not really an angry guy, I am so lucky to have the life I do and I love every second of it.

I do hate Nickelback with a burning passion, and I guess some of that aggression towards the money beaters and sell outs is channeled alongside my devotion.

Check out the song on my myspace profile in my sig, "work in progress - OCTOCLOPS" thats a drum machine behind it, because the recording was done before I joined, but the stuff is absolutely insane. It starts out with a riff that is 3 bars 5, 1 bar 4, repeats it like 4 times, goes into a repeat of a 3 bar phrase that is 5-7-5, 3 bars 5, but the second bar has a 2 count fill tacked on the end of it... the rest of the set list is about as insane, alternating meter is a big thing with these guys (usually more straight forward like 7+9 which adds up to 16 counts, or 4 bars of 10/4 which adds up to 10 bars of 4 etc)

The way I play this song, is to build up and back off with each riff. First repetition, start off skeletal, last repetition have a really full beat to go into it with. The drum machine is monotonous and tasteless, because it was programmed by a guitar player, but I have a really fun time playing with dynamic and space (crowded vs minimalist) in this song. The style I use is progrock/jazz fusion groove syncopations blended with death metal blast beat intensities.

As a result, my timekeeping in odd meters is solid, I write out my parts for that project note for note and listen back to them to find out what fits the music best, my metronome ability is right where it should be, and I am technically capable of playing anything any genre I am interested in with amateur ability because I can move my hands and feet anyway I want...giving me more focus to develop feel and mastery because I can technically handle the stuff. That's why I do it, and it's never all we do, hope this wall of text gave you a little insight. Metal is the current frontier for experimental/technical music while we wait for the future wave of electronica to take root.

As for meg white, the white stripes gimmick was that they were so classically amateur that they made people a little nostalgic, these Popstitutes really shouldn't kid themselves: they couldn't write anything outside of their bands "style" to save their lives. Whereas, I as a growing drummer can handle many genres with the wide array of tools I am developing. Not tooting my horn, just saying students regularly overtake these guys with musical talent, taste, ability, and EVERYTHING else EXCEPT greater following.

McDonald's is going to make a million times more money with its crowds because its so cheap and appeals to a everyones taste, delicacies produced at the classiest of restaurants will probably not appeal to everyone because of comfort zones etc. (all the chefs who are truly passionate/learned "technical prowess" along the journey are far away from McDonald's, and 100% at these restaurants.)

I listen to Mr. Bungle, the Mars Volta, Sonic Youth, Iwrestledabearonce, etc. because I am not the type to take mass produced things the maker assumes I'll like... I will instead go for something more adventurous just for the experience, and afterwards, simple generic things are dispelled of their illusion as anything but bland and ordinary. Virtuosity in minimalism fixes this. (previous post had it dead on) I guess that's why I grew out of meg white at the age of 14, but still have many beautifully natural and simple pieces of music on my Ipod.

Mr. White can take his celebrity romances and fancy bags, and remember the next time he can't for the life of him come up with anything innovative and original, that we out here can and do everyday, and that's what keeps us out of the mainstream/creative harm's way. I'm just happy to be learning, I'll never be reduced to making jealousy remarks because someone better can point out where I can improve... I treasure those criticisms. Keep hooking suckers for money, don't expect respect for it.





I bet you guys would never guess I am trying to cut down overplaying in my material after seeing the length of this reply!! =P
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Old 03-27-2010, 03:23 AM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

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Thank you for actually speaking what you feel. Seems like everyone is worshiping White in this thread when the simple fact of the matter is, as a drummer, she sucks. I know minimalism has it's place in drumming but she's not even minimal, she's just flat out bad. Quarter notes and 8th notes just banging incessantly on 2 drums and a cymbal for an entire album, no accents, no dynamics. That is not minimalistic art, that is luck; If she didn't have Jack leading the way with his riffs, she'd certainly not be making a living playing the crap she does. She sounds like, well like you said, someone who doesn't even really know how to play the drums. I'd doubt if she could even diddle.

JT1, you put it very well. I don't think limiting herself has anything to do with it either; I think what she does is really all she can do. I like my share of WS songs, but on the same note, I can't get through an entire Stripes album front to back because she is so painful to listen to for more than a few songs.
"Worshipping"? By all means disagree, but don't misrepresent us. Bill Bruford is my fave drummer and I don't even worship him - some of his tracks are better than others. That kind of misrepresentation really peeves me. Check Dairyman's last post - it hits the button.

WS music sounds great (to many people, including drummers) and she's part of the band. She handles space amazingly well for someone so unschooled.

Most drummers at her skill level play bad-sounding fills (to show how "good" they are). They get out of time. They can't hold the tempo steady. They lose focus on what the song is about. The kick and backbeat volume is inconsistent. They forget arrangements. When they come back in after breaks they're often a bit late or early - all the standard newbie pitfalls.

So IMO it's refreshing to see a simple player stick within her ability - with zero ego or delusions of grandeur - and execute songs at a level acceptable for professional recordings. Jack White came up with a great concept and Meg fulfills her role well. When I hear her play it always makes me think that that's what I should have done when I started drumming in the 70s instead of being pseudo-flash and sloppy.

That's not worship. That's just giving credit where it's due and realising that there's more to being a musician than being fancy. I hate it when people dis players unfairly. Yes, she has super-basic technique. That's a fair comment. But that doesn't make her a bad drummer. The mistakes I listed above are what makes a bad drummer.

Like any accompanist, the whole point is not to focus on her playing. The idea of her simple lines is to push the listener's attention to the lead voice, in this case Jack's vocals and guitar. She's just there to add the vibe.

Acegeister, how about entering the Seven Nation Army competition and overlaying a 7/8 over the tune, playing over the bar line and resolving every 28 bars ... first cycle would end halfway through the riff after the first turnaround if you count from when the drums come in.

Hmm, come to think of it, that sounds like an exercise tailor-made for you, Thaard! *grin*

I can't play loud at home so I'll have to do a lame bongos or djembe rendition - or maybe brushes lol. Hope someone can find a SNA drum karaoke track soon!
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  #178  
Old 03-30-2010, 11:47 PM
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Default Re: Meg White

Seven Nation Army drumless, but also vocal-less.

http://www.music4drums.net/ubbthread....html#Post1289
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  #179  
Old 03-31-2010, 10:29 AM
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Default Re: Meg White

Could you post that in this forum?
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  #180  
Old 03-31-2010, 10:36 AM
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Default Re: Meg White

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Originally Posted by Pkaneps View Post
Seven Nation Army drumless, but also vocal-less.

http://www.music4drums.net/ubbthread....html#Post1289
Great work, PK!

Perhaps those who are interested could request here or PM you with a request since posting the track would probably be breaching something or other. I guess you know which people are keen to try it out.

Consider this a request :)
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  #181  
Old 03-31-2010, 03:47 PM
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Default Re: Meg White

Heres what I found(in attachments). Sounds really weird without the singing though. Just the same bass-riff over and over. Well, well, IŽll get cracking with the recording.
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File Type: mp3 White_stripes_-_Seven_Nation_Army_-_drumless.mp3 (4.41 MB, 2013 views)
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  #182  
Old 03-31-2010, 04:03 PM
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Default Re: Meg White

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Heres what I found(in attachments). Sounds really weird without the singing though. Just the same bass-riff over and over. Well, well, IŽll get cracking with the recording.
Thanks Thaard - got it! It would be cool playing in a duo and having your part be such an intrinsic part of what makes a song tick.
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Old 03-31-2010, 05:08 PM
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Default Re: Meg White

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Thanks Thaard - got it! It would be cool playing in a duo and having your part be such an intrinsic part of what makes a song tick.
IŽll record some ideas/demos and upload them(playing chorus and verse). I also tried to put my own vocals on it, just to try, and I sounded like a dying crow :(
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  #184  
Old 03-31-2010, 10:12 PM
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Default Re: Meg White

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Great work, PK!

Perhaps those who are interested could request here or PM you with a request since posting the track would probably be breaching something or other. I guess you know which people are keen to try it out.

Consider this a request :)
I didn't like to have to register on that other site you know...

Is the file from the other site a midi file, too?
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  #185  
Old 04-01-2010, 11:44 AM
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Default Re: Meg White

Tricky. The riff leading up to and during the last verse goes for 24 bars but the MP3 only has 22.

Yep Matthias, I'm over registering for sites myself. Just another username and password to remember. I've forgotten more than I've remembered.
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Old 04-01-2010, 02:40 PM
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Default Re: Meg White

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Tricky. The riff leading up to and during the last verse goes for 24 bars but the MP3 only has 22.

Yep Matthias, I'm over registering for sites myself. Just another username and password to remember. I've forgotten more than I've remembered.
Maybe we should make our own thread or something, and not cluttering up the Meg White thread? :P
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  #187  
Old 04-20-2010, 07:10 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

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- with zero ego or delusions of grandeur - and execute songs at a level acceptable for professional recordings. Jack White came up with a great concept and Meg fulfills her role well.
Well said (and the rest). It's amazing the snobbery of anything not complicated or "drummy" by some here.

As for Jack White sucking, last I heard he had 3 bands that have done very well, owns a recording studio, and is a pretty well known producer as well.

...just sayin'.

Hopefully some of the posters will do as well in their endeavors.
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  #188  
Old 04-20-2010, 08:18 PM
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Default Re: Meg White

I think what upsets people about Meg is that she challenges expectations. I think many people have certain standards in their head about how a pro drummer should play. Then along comes Meg who defies those standards, and the end result is a great sound and great success. That must be frustrating for some!

I see this sort of thing in the arts all the time. For example, I've been involved in video/film production for a long time. Back in the day, there was this accepted standard that if you were making a dramatic fictional narrative, you mounted your camera on a tripod and held static shots or made very smooth camera movements. If you went handheld and ended up with shaky footage, it was considered "sloppy" and "amateurish." Then somebody decided to intentionally break "the rules" and make shaky footage on purpose. The style really caught on. Now you see that kind of camera work all the time.

What you end up learning is there are no rules in art, and you realize that what works, works. Meg totally works.
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Old 04-21-2010, 05:08 PM
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Default Re: Meg White

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What you end up learning is there are no rules in art, and you realize that what works, works.

Exactly.


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  #190  
Old 04-21-2010, 05:11 PM
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Default Re: Meg White

Thanks Karl and well said, Boomstick.

What I find interesting is that Meg's playing works. In the old days I would have scoffed at her too and, really, you wouldn't think that playing so simply could possibly sound right. Yet it does because her kit sounds great. The way drums struck is important in sound production, and this is an aspect of Meg's playing that's often not acknowledged.

I'm also guessing that if she played more normally the listener might start feeling the lack of a bassist. You have to approach things differently in duos.
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Old 04-22-2010, 10:32 PM
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Default Re: Meg White

The thing that gets me is how most people always assume that 'fancier' is better.

If something works, it works. It doesn't even matter HOW a person does, or gets to, the 'works' part of it. Good technique or bad, weird angled drums or flat...

You work on things so it's easier to get whats in your head out of your hands.

That's not the point of the Stripes, so you'd not hire a Vinnie or Dennis to play it.

You'd not even bring in a Grohl to play it. It'd be too 'right'.
Sometimes you have to forget everything and just do it. "Over thinking it" is what kills most things creative. And I think a lot of people would find it a little difficult to let go and leave so much space to keep it that simple.

Taking a few words from Steve Jordan, "just because something is simple, doesn't mean it's dumb".

Meg does her thing in the Stripes and that's about the extent of it.
You don't see her playing in other groups, trying to claim some glory, she isn't going out for interviews, or having management say "if you want her on your roster, you gotta do a bunch of ads". She has a few endorsements and they do what they are supposed to do for each other. She's using gear she likes, and people see her using that gear.

I bet even Steve Gadd could walk into a Guitar Center, sit down, play one of his 'money beats' and the kids around (who wouldn't know who he is) would say "who this geezer? he sucks" and try to blow some blast beats to show off.

I'm not comparing Gadd to White, but it's the same idea. What each of them plays works for the music they are doing.
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Old 04-22-2010, 11:14 PM
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Default Re: Meg White

I for myself am not speaking about simplicity or fanciness, nor about technique, grip or drum angles.
I just am not too fond of the sound and the groove of the drums.
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  #193  
Old 04-23-2010, 01:18 PM
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Default Re: Meg White

Matthias, what's not to like about the drum sound in Icky Thump? Cymbal and snare sounds are killer.
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Old 04-24-2010, 04:18 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

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I think it's too early for me and Average to voice our opinions. ;P
It was a fairly interesting read. I think I can understand why people are pretty passionate about the issue. Meg White's playing doesn't really make me have an opinion one way or the other.

I remember when the white stripes were brand new. It was about the time the band The Strokes first hit the scene. I liked what the Strokes were doing at the time because it was so different from the Brittany-pop stuff that was dominating the airwaves and public space loudspeakers. I went to see the Strokes in Lawrence Kansas in a tiny club and they put on a hell of a show. The crowd didn't get it though. A couple of cowboys kept yelling out Free Bird and ACDC. The lead singer lipped off about Kansas being a hick place and after the show, the entire band got beat up. Apparently being from New York and having a loud mouth doesn't necessarily mean you can handle yourself in a fight. I digress.

I tried to get into the White Stripes at the time but they didn't do it for me. I didn't really even notice the drumming and I guess that was the idea.

There is this belief in the drumming community that 'success' is fame and money. Some people think that only the most accomplished drummers should be rich and famous. You'll save yourself a lot of heartache and pain by just accepting that your ability is in no way connected to fame and fortune in the music business. I know it shouldn't be that way, but it is.

Let me give you three examples of phenomenal drummers that you have never heard of, never will, and you won't give enough of a crap to go look them up.

The first is Billy Thommes. He was Johnny Lang's drummer and now plays with numerous acts. He is based out of Minneapolis. The second is Marc Dixon. He plays with an Australian blues musician named Harper, as well as a few other projects. The last is Moe Roberts. He is based out of New York and is currently touring with Shamekia Copeland. In the past 2 years of gigging, those were the three best drummers I shared the stage with. All three have virtuoso level technique, creativity, musicality and yes, feel. They are some of the best drummers currently playing and they will never be famous. Photos are below in the order they were mentioned.
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  #195  
Old 05-07-2010, 12:59 AM
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Default Re: Meg White

I've always been a fan of megs actually, i think she lays it down for jack, i wrote a blog entry on it actually heres the link

http://rock-drumming.wonderhowto.com...iated-0115647/
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  #196  
Old 05-07-2010, 12:29 PM
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Default Re: Meg White

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Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
Matthias, what's not to like about the drum sound in Icky Thump? Cymbal and snare sounds are killer.
Nice snare sound I must confess. :)
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Old 05-07-2010, 01:00 PM
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Default Re: Meg White

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Nice snare sound I must confess. :)
LOL ... after all this time :) Yes, it's a nice WHACK she gets. If I was the WS drummer and walked out of a session with a take like that I'd be a very happy girl. Love the hard rockin' vibe.

One good concession deserves another so here's mine ... I just listened to that track again and wondered how killer it would have been with Bonzo playing. It would have been, like, "lock away your children!" :)
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Old 05-07-2010, 02:00 PM
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Sorry, been away for a while...
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  #199  
Old 05-08-2010, 03:44 PM
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Default Re: Meg White

She is a female version of Phil Rudd
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Old 09-05-2010, 01:42 AM
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Default Re: Meg White

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She is a female version of Phil Rudd
except for the fact that phil rudd was a badass
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