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  #121  
Old 03-24-2010, 10:13 AM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

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JP, I think your and my opinions on this are entirely predictable :)
True, and my opinions wouldn't be that positive regarding this subject so maybe I just stay silent this time. =P If you like their music, it's ok. If Meg has inspired someone to pick up drums that's even better. =)
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  #122  
Old 03-24-2010, 10:44 AM
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True, and my opinions wouldn't be that positive regarding this subject so maybe I just stay silent this time. =P If you like their music, it's ok. If Meg has inspired someone to pick up drums that's even better. =)
Yep, I don't have the heart to go through it all again! We can agree to disagree :)

My opinions are all on the Super Simple Drumming thread so there's no need to repeat myself repeat myself repeat myself ...

Having said that, I enjoy Bill Bruford's drumming more than any other. Mad keen on Steve Gadd, Billy Cobham, Pierre Moerlen, Prairie Prince and other monster players too. When drummers are fancy and they get the balance just right, it's the coolest thing but I still enjoy the clarity of minimalism.
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  #123  
Old 03-24-2010, 10:58 AM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

I think it's not only her playing per se. I believe a lot of jealousy comes into hand regarding the fact the she is a 'mediocre' drummer and made it big, while others have put countless hours into trying to be as good as humanly possible and never managed to succeed as a professional musician.

Also, a lot of us adhere to what wee commonly see as drumming standards - having decent technique, good timing etc. Meg is sort of out of that realm.

Finally, Meg managed to do what I lot of us would love to do: make a living out of what she loves. And on the contrary of many drummers you see here and there, I have yet to see her be cocky about it in regards to her drumming skills.

Take note that I used quotation marks. I'm not trying to judge her here but I need a word to qualify her drumming skills. I'm not a bit fan of their music, but regardless of her drumming abilities Meg White does compliment well the songs I've heard. (But I still cannot stand listening to 'Seven Nation Army'! Argh! That song drives mes nuts!)

Wow, I never thought I would be talking of Meg White like this lol!
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  #124  
Old 03-24-2010, 11:04 AM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

Drum-Head, I think the term you want is "very limited" :)
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  #125  
Old 03-24-2010, 11:31 AM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

But the thing is for me that can you take credit for being a "minimalist" if the only thing you can do is to be a minimalist? Hey I can draw a stick figure on a canvas, am I now the greatest ever minimalist or naivist althought that's all I could ever draw anyways?
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  #126  
Old 03-24-2010, 12:02 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

I hear the sound of shovels, furiously digging trenches in the distance. Smoke rising from the burning of woodlands and placards being painted in their thousands.

She's a hot looking chick with great hair, makes music that's more poular that yours or mine and you wish you could let your wife loose on the Prada handbag store.
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  #127  
Old 03-24-2010, 12:11 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

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But the thing is for me that can you take credit for being a "minimalist" if the only thing you can do is to be a minimalist? Hey I can draw a stick figure on a canvas, am I now the greatest ever minimalist or naivist althought that's all I could ever draw anyways?
A limited player is a great choice to play minimalism because they won't get bored :)

JP, you could start up an art franchise with your custom stick figures! However, if you are struggling to pay the rent because they are less well-received by the public than the WS, then you might have to think about why ...

Look, I get it. I really do. I still remember playing the traps and the bitter feeling of seeing bands who were far more limited and less skilled than my groups going somewhere fast. And we were going nowhere.

Why? Because they struck a chord in audiences - often through being connected with a scene - and we failed to make those connections. We just played what we thought was pretty good music. Not enough. If you don't make those emotional connections then you'd better be very, very, very good.

I'm not bitter any more. I'm getting old and now and only playing for fun, so I don't think it terms of hierarchies. If a track appeals to me, fine. If not, that's fine too. I just find something very pleasing about WS music - it's sassy, melodic, fun and the overall band sound is great.
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  #128  
Old 03-24-2010, 12:13 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

seriously, people like meg are the ones that inspire kids to attempt to play these instruments in the first place.
there's a reason you hear so many young kids talk about her, travis barker, chad smith, pop/rock drummers, etc.

massive respect to her. i don't care if she isn't complicated, her feel makes up for that tenfold.
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  #129  
Old 03-24-2010, 12:40 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

She makes a living playing drums/music. Most people can't say that. Good for her. I don't care for her playing but don't mind their music. I'd be more interested in hearing how they made it to the top of the pop charts. I think that would be interesting. I think most people are jealous of the fact that she doesn't have to work a 9-5. Again, good for her. I support her for that.
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  #130  
Old 03-24-2010, 12:44 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

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A limited player is a great choice to play minimalism because they won't get bored :)

JP, you could start up an art franchise with your custom stick figures! However, if you are struggling to pay the rent because they are less well-received by the public than the WS, then you might have to think about why ...

Look, I get it. I really do. I still remember playing the traps and the bitter feeling of seeing bands who were far more limited and less skilled than my groups going somewhere fast. And we were going nowhere.

Why? Because they struck a chord in audiences - often through being connected with a scene - and we failed to make those connections. We just played what we thought was pretty good music. Not enough. If you don't make those emotional connections then you'd better be very, very, very good.

I'm not bitter any more. I'm getting old and now and only playing for fun, so I don't think it terms of hierarchies. If a track appeals to me, fine. If not, that's fine too. I just find something very pleasing about WS music - it's sassy, melodic, fun and the overall band sound is great.
Yeah, as I said I don't really want to get into this debate again. I just reiterated the point I have been making all along. I completely get the other side's point too. It's great we have more simple music too so that young kids can get in to music more and feel satisfaction when they can play the tunes they love with ease. But what gets under my skin are the arguments like "She can do what those with 'technical prowess' can't. She inspires people to bash on pots and pans. For that, they repay her with gossip and judgement." Technical (or feel-) gods inspire people too. And they _could_ play the same things Meg is playing and actually most of them _have to_ most of the time because they are called out to do those types of studio sessions.

As I said before, if you like the music it's ok (I don't particularly enjoy it, have tried to like it though). If she inspires, especially young girls to pick up drums it's definitely great. I just wouldn't start yet another simplicity-cult around her, there's just too many of those already, I think. I would start it around someone who has a bit more life behind him/her & has something more feelwise going than a great songwriter to back her up. =)
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  #131  
Old 03-24-2010, 12:45 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

I have expressed my opinions about Meg in threads before and won't repeat what I have previously said.

I see what you are saying Drum-head sour grapes probably is a factor but I must say I couldn't go around the world playing Meg White stuff I really couldn't I think it would kill me. Everyone says complexity in moderation which I agree with entirely but simplicity in moderation too, there is always a happy medium for all songs and i'm not entirely happy unless i'm being creative with beats. You can still be simple and creative but underplaying really doesn't cut it for me.

Oh dear Jack 'laughing all the way to the Prada handbag store' tut tut, but we don't do it for the money Jack we do it cause we love it, I would happily tour the world for free if I could play with my bands every day or near enough. If he had said laughing all of the way to the Mapex dealers to pick up a brand new Orion, then the attempt to create jealousy may well have worked =P.
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  #132  
Old 03-24-2010, 01:11 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

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As I said before, if you like the music it's ok (I don't particularly enjoy it, have tried to like it though). If she inspires, especially young girls to pick up drums it's definitely great. I just wouldn't start yet another simplicity-cult around her, there's just too many of those already, I think. I would start it around someone who has a bit more life behind him/her & has something more feelwise going than a great songwriter to back her up. =)
i don't actually listen to their music at all (i think i heard a couple of their songs when i was younger), but if you go and teach young children then its these kinds of bands/artists who get them interested in playing drums. i'm talking the general-off-the-street kid, not some 9 year old child prodigy who gets taught by great teachers.

i do agree with what you said, but - when was the last time you heard bands including players like dave weckl, steve smith etc playing on national radio? (not talking sessions here, actual bands). i'm not sure what the playlists are like in finland, but in the UK we have mainly pop/rock/dance on the national radio station.
most of the kids that i help out are into bands like the killers, foals, foo fighters, radiohead, etc.

this kind of music isn't as complicated as insert random high quality jazz/fusion band here, but it's just as relevant. infact in terms of young kids learning i think it's more relevant because it's the kind of stuff they hear in their day to day lives. once they get into drums you can then steer them in the direction of music that is different.

out of interest, do you actually think that Jack makes music with his primary influence being money? i'm sure you were being sarcastic (in retrospect). my opinion is that money makes the world go round, and without backing i will never be able to do it.
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  #133  
Old 03-24-2010, 01:14 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

Yep JT, must admit that I couldn't keep holding back to the degree that Meg does - I'd burst!

Still, my understanding is that Jack changes arrangements at gigs around without notice and Meg has to be ready for it, so staying put allows him the freedom to go for it and lets her listen out for sudden changes without the risk of a train crash.

If the drums are in the middle of a hero fill then Jack has no choice but stay at home and play the arrangement as per the record. It's not a democratic band - Meg's a stay-at-home-mum (drum) while Jack goes a'gallivanting. That's the dynamic.

When there's just two people it does allow for more flexibility than in most rock, while at the same time throwing a ton of responsibility on each player. I've seen two-man free improvs but if they make an error most people wouldn't even know, whereas with the WS an error would stick out like dog's yarbles.

No sense hiring Vinnie to play that role. Meg's ideal.
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  #134  
Old 03-24-2010, 01:24 PM
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i'm not sure what the playlists are like in finland, but in the UK we have mainly pop/rock/dance on the national radio station.
Funny that you brought that up actually. I sometimes have a slight difficulty imagining what radio stations are playing in different countries. Finland is one of those rare countries where we have quite a dominant metal scene. So we hear metal on a radio a lot (Nightwish, Him, Stratovarius etc. just to name a few finnish bands). I don't know if it's better though. Kids only want to play metal. So if you think it's bad around here on this board with all the double bass threads, you propably wouldn't enjoy yourself on the finnish boards. =P That's actually one of the reasons I like the vibe here better.

But even if it's silly to go all out with the metal at young age it'll challenge you much further than WS would. So I dunno... Eitherway it's great if it gets you to play with others. =)
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  #135  
Old 03-24-2010, 01:34 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

actually i've been playing death metal with my friends from the age of about 12 ;-) that said i don't only play double bass, everything in moderation! hehe.

yeah i figured finland would have a strong metal presence on the radio (same with norway, sweden). to be honest i only listen to this kind of music for about an hour a day, just blitz through some opeth/death/black dahlia murder for a little variation to the other stuff i play :-)

the uk radio (BBC) is probably one of the best in the world, we have a huge diversity of music played (there are shows for most types of music on during the night/morning, and the shows are available as podcasts for a week after they have been played).
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  #136  
Old 03-24-2010, 01:40 PM
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i guess i must be missing something ...
You guessed it.20202020202 <---- 20 char rule is stupid and quite annoying.
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  #137  
Old 03-24-2010, 01:44 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

Meg White, the worlds most irritating metronome. Theres more to my hate though. When I used to play concerts and stuff with my old band, everyone wanted to try my drums, and they all wanted to play seven nation army! I had to start refusing, since my sticks and cymbals were being bashed to pieces by people who had never played the drums..
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  #138  
Old 03-24-2010, 01:46 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

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out of interest, do you actually think that Jack makes music with his primary influence being money? i'm sure you were being sarcastic (in retrospect). my opinion is that money makes the world go round, and without backing i will never be able to do it.
Indeed I was being sarcastic, I wouldn't know if he does or not as I don't read up on him to know but his comment does make me wonder. I agree entirely, money does make the world go around and that is what I have my full time job for, I work, get paid, buy stuff for my kit and play gigs for nothing, that's the reality and truth of it. Obviously it is his full time job and he has to make money from it but whether he does it for the money or not is a different thing.

Also I say I would play for free but in reality I would need to be paid if it was my full time job. However if I was asked to go touring full time and they said we can't pay you but we can supply you with food, transport and accommodation, I would say sign me up doc!
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  #139  
Old 03-24-2010, 01:46 PM
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actually i've been playing death metal with my friends from the age of about 12 ;-) that said i don't only play double bass, everything in moderation! hehe.

yeah i figured finland would have a strong metal presence on the radio (same with norway, sweden). to be honest i only listen to this kind of music for about an hour a day, just blitz through some opeth/death/black dahlia murder for a little variation to the other stuff i play :-)

the uk radio (BBC) is probably one of the best in the world, we have a huge diversity of music played (there are shows for most types of music on during the night/morning, and the shows are available as podcasts for a week after they have been played).
I used to be metal head too (I just love the calculated crazy metal stuff like Meshuggah, Dillinger Escape Plan etc), but my roots are in jazz so I sort of returned home when I (re)discovered fusion (and post-rock) couple of years ago. Nowadays I usually visit only the best from the former genres I used to listen or try some new hot names my metal friends are hypeing about. =)

I still sometimes listen to the simple stuff I hear on the radio or TV just to stay connected to the current movements in popular music. But the perspective has changed. I don't listen to it to find great musicians (if I actually find one, it'll be a surprise bonus =P) but I try to listen to what the producers have been doing, what influences have they had, what new they have developed if anything and how the songs have been written and constructed to really influnce the masses on large scale. And how all these things change when time goes by. It's now much more easy to say where all those things come from when I have really listened to almost every genre there is (obviously not all, but it's not the rarest ones usually that influence the pop culture, sometimes that happens too though). But all of that doesn't really involve the drumming or the drummer. I think it's a bit silly to give huge amounts of credit to a drummer when 99% of the song is about songwriting and producing and marketting and hair and clothing. =P And band memeber's opinions don't really count since obviously they want to back each other out, even if they are ex's.
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  #140  
Old 03-24-2010, 02:08 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

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But what gets under my skin are the arguments like "She can do what those with 'technical prowess' can't. She inspires people to bash on pots and pans. For that, they repay her with gossip and judgement." Technical (or feel-) gods inspire people too. And they _could_ play the same things Meg is playing and actually most of them _have to_ most of the time because they are called out to do those types of studio sessions.
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  #141  
Old 03-24-2010, 02:13 PM
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Hmmm... minimalistic? I fondly remember reading a copy of Modern Drummer where contributing staff drummer (the great) Peter Erskine slammed Dave Grohl over a Modern Drummer interview where Dave was quoted as taking an "admitted minimalistic" approach to drumming. The comment that Erskine made has stuck with me to this day which was "in order to be considered minimalistic you must be capable of virtuosity" which to me was a bit harsh, like a slap across the face to one of the most influential drummers of the generation. Taken from one of the modern masters, if i were Dave Grohl i probably would tucked my tail between my legs and gotten myself a good drum instructor and then practiced my ass off.

As for Meg, more power to her, you GO GIRL.

Is it better to be Ringo Starr or Neil Peart??? I'd have rather been Ringo, duh???
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  #142  
Old 03-24-2010, 02:16 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

It's mostly pop/rock/dance on radio in Oz too I don't hear metal in Oz radio although I'm sure there's a station or two. I have noticed more metal appearing in TV ads aimed at appealing to young guys.

I'm hoping that metal doesn't get huge here as it has in Scandinavia and the US. I only like a few metal numbers, most of them by either Tool or RATM. I'm a King Crimson nut but their metal side leaves me cold, apart from LTIA. The minute there's Cookie Monsters or machine gun grooves, I'm out. I'd rather hear WS any day.

Metal ain't what it used to be. Now Black Sabbath, that was fun. But this growl growl boogidy boogidy stuff ... gimme a break! lol Where's the charm? Ozzy had it!

I can hardly make out anything that the growlers are saying and when I do it's normally just young men's angst. Wowie zowie. The weird thing is that every metalhead I meet is a fair dinkum lovely guy. I can't put the two together - these fun, intelligent, easygoing guys and this maniacally angry music. I can only guess that they're getting it out of their systems. There might be some value to musical Gestalt therapy that acts as a safety valve, but I's rather not hear it. There ya go. Some of you think WS are primitive and I think modern metal is ugly. No accounting for taste, eh?

Wow, that was a rant ... probably been reading too much Pat Methany talking about Kenny G.

Thaard, I'd love to play Seven Nation Army ... just sit there going thump thump thump with attitude for half a song. Bring it on, I say :)

EDIT: Dios, I agree with Peter E in that more headroom = more "on the button" minimalist playing. It depends on the style though. The lack of headroom in WS creates a certain feel that's appealing. It wouldn't work as well played slick and precise. Dave Grohl has done well for himself too, even though he wouldn't have anywhere near as much headroom as Peter E.
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  #143  
Old 03-24-2010, 02:25 PM
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I can hardly make out anything that the growlers are saying and when I do it's normally just young men's angst. Wowie zowie. The weird thing is that every metalhead I meet is a fair dinkum lovely guy. I can't put the two together - these fun, intelligent, easygoing guys and this maniacally angry music. I can only guess that they're getting it out of their systems. There might be some value to musical Gestalt therapy that acts as a safety valve, but I's rather not hear it. There ya go. Some of you think WS are primitive and I think modern metal is ugly. No accounting for taste, eh?
You know Polly, I hate to sound like a broken record but it's all matter of exposure. I remember when I was young I used to bash people for listening to "that growly stuff, I can't even hear what they are saying". But then all my friends listened to that sort of stuff so eventually I got used to it. That's why I hate top40 lists on radio and TV because they are self-fulfilling prophecies. Of course people buy them because they are all they know and are used to listen to. But it doesn't mean in the slightest that they are actually better than anything else. And I'm quite sure those lists have nothing to do with actual bought records, more like how much the music stores think they will need them in relation how big of a marketting plan the band has. =P It's all really complicated and besides the point of music imo.
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  #144  
Old 03-24-2010, 02:51 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

I don't care about minimalism, nor do I care about overcomplication. What I care about is when then parts fit together and THAT's what Meg White does perfectly. White Stripes songs would sound downright strange if she was playing anything else.

To me, Seven Nation Army proves that a song can be done perfectly with eighth notes.
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  #145  
Old 03-24-2010, 03:01 PM
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I don't care about minimalism, nor do I care about overcomplication. What I care about is when then parts fit together and THAT's what Meg White does perfectly. White Stripes songs would sound downright strange if she was playing anything else.

To me, Seven Nation Army proves that a song can be done perfectly with eighth notes.
That particular song makes me think "what a great motive, why don't they develope it further?". =P And here we go with self-fulfilling prophecies again. Of course it would sound strange now to do it differently when we have totooed the pattern to our brain via radio and TV, but that doesn't mean it absolutely _couldn't_ be done better. =P And if it's perfect, why do you ever play anything else?
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  #146  
Old 03-24-2010, 03:37 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

I think Drum-Head nailed it, in that there's some jealously going on. She's become more famous than any of us will by playing really simple stuff, and that kind of makes us feel like all that time we've spent in the practice room has been a waste.

A part of me does feel that way, and in an ideal world the best musicians would also be the most famous. But that's not the way it is, at least in the pop music world; the musicians who find the most fame are the ones who can write songs that connect with people. Just listen to Bob Dylan or Neil Young and you'll see what I mean. Most music fans aren't very impressed by technical virtuosity. However, if you can pair great musicianship with great songwriting, you'll be a superstar because you can appeal to musicians and non-musicians like (see The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, etc.).
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  #147  
Old 03-24-2010, 03:53 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

there are numerous ways of drumming to a particular song. We hear only one version in albums.
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  #148  
Old 03-24-2010, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by JT1 View Post
Also I say I would play for free but in reality I would need to be paid if it was my full time job. However if I was asked to go touring full time and they said we can't pay you but we can supply you with food, transport and accommodation, I would say sign me up doc!
oh don't get me wrong, so would i (and i have in the past). but when your a young adult that doesn't have cash cow parents and need to keep spending money on buying new equipment and fuel then you really need some kind of income (especially if you only have enough time to work a part time job because of your practice requirements).
I would play music for free, I go and do work experience at local schools for free just because its fun, but in the end that won't enable me to play in tokyo, sydney, new york, barcelona, paris, etc.

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Originally Posted by JPW View Post
I still sometimes listen to the simple stuff I hear on the radio or TV just to stay connected to the current movements in popular music. But the perspective has changed. I don't listen to it to find great musicians (if I actually find one, it'll be a surprise bonus =P) but I try to listen to what the producers have been doing, what influences have they had, what new they have developed if anything and how the songs have been written and constructed to really influnce the masses on large scale.
I agree entirely. I think we have a very similar viewpoint. For example, I listen to post rock (its one of my favourite styles of music/drumming at the moment), but I only listen to the best bands, e.g. from monument to masses, god is an astronaut, etc. I haven't got enough time to listen to a whole genre.

For example, my practice schedule so far today has been from 6am til 12pm, then 1pm 4pm.
I've covered warm ups, some rudimental work, metal/progressive/post rock/drum and bass/dubstep/hip-hop/electro/pop, and im in the middle of a few hours of afro cuban.
Then I have to spend this afternoon/evening producing and recording for my own/other peoples compositions and then finally go and have a band practice at about 8pm.

You'll notice I left out jazz, i do whole day sessions on this rather than a few hours here and there because I find I have to get into the mode to actually get anything out of it, it's the style of music I struggle most with at the moment.

In closing, I don't listen to the white stripes at all, and it really isn't what I'd normally play, but if it gets a 8 year old kid to pick up drums like I did and have a great time then I have to respect it. As much as I don't listen to them now, its bands like blink 182, the offspring, limp bizkit, korn etc that got me into music in the first place! I say music, because music is so much more than simply playing drums in my opinion.
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Old 03-24-2010, 06:12 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

But who will defend Jack White for filling the airwaves with horrible songs?
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Old 03-24-2010, 07:13 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

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For example, my practice schedule so far today has been from 6am til 12pm, then 1pm – 4pm.
You have got some nice practice hours there mate. =P You have to tell me someday how you manage to stay focused (and not give up) all that time. I have really hard time focusing more than 3 hours in a row and more than 5-6hours a day. Do you find it gets easier the more you do it? I don't know if my ability to focus has really changed that much over the years. I hope I could practice that much. I have the time but my brain fails me. =/
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Old 03-24-2010, 07:27 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

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Originally Posted by BeatlesFan View Post
2010-03-19 by Alex C. Soothsayer

In a recent interview Jack White spoke out about the criticism his ex-wfie and drummer Meg White. Jack White explained that Meg chooses a minimalistic approach to drumming to avoid over-complication, and added that she has inspired many to pick up the drums.

"Her femininity and extreme minimalism are too much to take for some metalheads and reverse-contrarian hipsters,"

"She can do what those with 'technical prowess' can't. She inspires people to bash on pots and pans. For that, they repay her with gossip and judgement."

White also added:

"In the end she's laughing all the way to the Prada handbag store, she wins every time."


Source: http://www.sputnikmusic.com/news.php?newsid=13264
Meg chooses a minimalistic approach to drumming 'cause that's all she's GOT. Like all OTHER simple styled drummers, if they HAD the "chops" they'd most likely USE 'em, same with her.

I STILL say she's not so good, simple or not.

Phil Rudd is a simple player, and he'll mop the floor with MOST drummers with the pocket full'o groove he lays down.

Meg White . . . not so much.
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Old 03-25-2010, 12:44 AM
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You have got some nice practice hours there mate. =P You have to tell me someday how you manage to stay focused (and not give up) all that time. I have really hard time focusing more than 3 hours in a row and more than 5-6hours a day. Do you find it gets easier the more you do it? I don't know if my ability to focus has really changed that much over the years. I hope I could practice that much. I have the time but my brain fails me. =/
ahh. well i don't simply play non-stop. if i spend an hour on one style for example, then i will play for about 50 minutes, and take a 10 minute break in the middle. or take a couple of 5 minute breaks. i could never play for this amount of hours non-stop all the way through. if anything it is the breaks which are the most important parts of the puzzle, because i will sit down with my pad and try to memorize what i've been doing for the past 30 minutes.

i'm not sure if it has gotten easier due to repetition (i'm sure it has though), but lately i have cut out all video games etc. so i really have nothing to distract me, other than drummerworld/myspace/facebook! haha :-)

my brain really used to fail me too so i know where you're coming from. that said i did used to watch a lot of TV etc. since i cut them out of my life my concentration has increased a lot.
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Old 03-25-2010, 01:46 AM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

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You know Polly, I hate to sound like a broken record but it's all matter of exposure.
JP, I am much older than you and no doubt have listened far more broadly than you have. So if you spent more time trying to unlock the reason why some very simple music is highly effective artistically perhaps you would understand it more? :-P

However, we have visceral responses to music that is too often underestimated. I have heard enough death metal to know that it has precious few of the qualities I seek in music. I would suggest the same with you and catchy poprock. There is a reson why I know of no middle aged women who are keen on death metal. To us it feels like an assault.

I see death metal and its derivatives as being the musical equivalent to slasher films, which I also find ugly.

But I'm not all about beauty and tra la la sweetness. I am fine with musical ugliness if I see strong elements of originality, lyrical quality, strong mood creation, interesting timbres, enjoyale grooves, dynamic variation and content/form synergies. I see few of those qualities in modern metal. Tool are the exception - great band. RATM can be enjoyable too because they groove, even if they don't have a lot of different grooves.
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Old 03-25-2010, 08:52 AM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

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Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
JP, I am much older than you and no doubt have listened far more broadly than you have. So if you spent more time trying to unlock the reason why some very simple music is highly effective artistically perhaps you would understand it more? :-P

However, we have visceral responses to music that is too often underestimated. I have heard enough death metal to know that it has precious few of the qualities I seek in music. I would suggest the same with you and catchy poprock. There is a reson why I know of no middle aged women who are keen on death metal. To us it feels like an assault.

I see death metal and its derivatives as being the musical equivalent to slasher films, which I also find ugly.

But I'm not all about beauty and tra la la sweetness. I am fine with musical ugliness if I see strong elements of originality, lyrical quality, strong mood creation, interesting timbres, enjoyale grooves, dynamic variation and content/form synergies. I see few of those qualities in modern metal. Tool are the exception - great band. RATM can be enjoyable too because they groove, even if they don't have a lot of different grooves.
I don't really have to try to get myself exposed to simple catchy pop stuff, it's everywhere. I wouldn't say death metal is the same. You'd had to give it a try every day for 30 years for it to really be on the same level than what we hear on the radio. So that's where friends come in to the picture. If you hang out all the time with metal heads you'll become one yourself too. That was my point.

But yeah, I'm not saying eveeryone has to like metal. I don't listen to it that much either these days. It has such a limited range of emotions going, just different shades of negative emotions. But there's much more to life than that. But when I'm angry some Strapping Young Lad always helps me out of it. =)
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Old 03-25-2010, 09:03 AM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

I love Jack White. He has got to be the coolest rock star out there. I love the Stripes, The Raconteurs, and The Dead Weather.

It's pretty obvious to me that that Jack made an artistic choice to go with, as he once put it "primitive, childlike drumming". His use of the words "primitive" and "childlike" denotes a certain Cezanne-esque mindset. It's not "simple" or "dumb". It's "primitive" and that is a key artistic distinction for me.

It's also pretty obvious to me that Jack is the driving musical genius behind the Stripes and that Meg happened to fit that vision.

It's all Jack, man. Meg helped him to fulfill that artistic vision but she does not deserve the same level of credit that he does for envisioning it.

Jack could have made the stripes with another limited drummer. But you have no Stripes without Jack.

But don't hate on Meg, she's cool. Not everyone wants or needs to be Tony Williams.

And she does make more money than you...
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Old 03-25-2010, 11:41 AM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

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Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
JP, I am much older than you and no doubt have listened far more broadly than you have. So if you spent more time trying to unlock the reason why some very simple music is highly effective artistically perhaps you would understand it more? :-P

However, we have visceral responses to music that is too often underestimated. I have heard enough death metal to know that it has precious few of the qualities I seek in music. I would suggest the same with you and catchy poprock. There is a reson why I know of no middle aged women who are keen on death metal. To us it feels like an assault.

I see death metal and its derivatives as being the musical equivalent to slasher films, which I also find ugly.

But I'm not all about beauty and tra la la sweetness. I am fine with musical ugliness if I see strong elements of originality, lyrical quality, strong mood creation, interesting timbres, enjoyale grooves, dynamic variation and content/form synergies. I see few of those qualities in modern metal. Tool are the exception - great band. RATM can be enjoyable too because they groove, even if they don't have a lot of different grooves.
I don't want to start a debate on heavy music as this thread is not about that at all but JPW is correct, if you spend time with metal heads, you will become one yourself. At first I started liking the riffs and music more than anything else even though I can't stand death metal most of the time because it sounds like noise. Occasionally you will get some awesome riff then the drummer comes along and spoils it playing an awful blast beat. However I love heavy music and after a period of time of being exposed to it, as much as I hated the vocalists (due to their style) it grew on me and I realised that that becomes part of the mood and atmosphere they are trying to create and a 'normal' singing voice just wouldn't cut it in that situation.

Here Polly try some Ayreon and honestly let me know your opinion, beautiful music with heavy in moderation but with nice vocals too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2Agn...om=PL&index=34

As for catchy pop songs, my status on those is usually I will hear 1 out of a dozen that I quite like, that song will probably find its way onto my phone and then within a couple of weeks another will hit me and the other one will get forgotten.

Yeah Jeff you're right we know that Meg isn't the brains behind the Stripes and Jack is pretty awesome actually in his vision and musically a quite gifted fellow especially in the latter. All he needed was a puppet whom he could tell what to do and not get any question about it. For that, Meg fits the stripes perfectly. The thing is, she is very stiff and if she just learned learned to loosen up and position her rack tom properly ;) she could improve the bands overall image too.
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Old 03-25-2010, 11:51 AM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

I don't like to say I like this style or I hate that style. There are a few styles I don't like to listen to, but basically I love well (or very well :) ) played music, and I don't care for badly played stuff. I also like some well programmed (and thought through) music.

There are some exceptions, meaning not very brilliantly played, but nonetheless beautiful or attractive for any reason pieces of music.

If a group of classy musicians play a relatively simple piece of pop music, it will have groove, it will have subtlety, it will have dynamics, it will have feel (meaning the musicians know what they're "saying") etc. Of course the song must be good, or at least appeal to me too, but while bad musicians can ruin everything, good ones will make many things worth listening to.

Last edited by Swiss Matthias; 03-25-2010 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 03-25-2010, 12:35 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

nicely put matthias! :-)
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Old 03-25-2010, 01:48 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

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Originally Posted by Jeff Almeyda View Post
I love Jack White. He has got to be the coolest rock star out there. I love the Stripes, The Raconteurs, and The Dead Weather.

It's pretty obvious to me that that Jack made an artistic choice to go with, as he once put it "primitive, childlike drumming". His use of the words "primitive" and "childlike" denotes a certain Cezanne-esque mindset. It's not "simple" or "dumb". It's "primitive" and that is a key artistic distinction for me.

It's also pretty obvious to me that Jack is the driving musical genius behind the Stripes and that Meg happened to fit that vision.

It's all Jack, man. Meg helped him to fulfill that artistic vision but she does not deserve the same level of credit that he does for envisioning it.

Jack could have made the stripes with another limited drummer. But you have no Stripes without Jack.

But don't hate on Meg, she's cool. Not everyone wants or needs to be Tony Williams.

And she does make more money than you...
Great post - right on the button. No coincidence that they named an album De Stijl.
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Old 03-25-2010, 02:31 PM
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Default Re: Jack White Defends Meg

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That particular song makes me think "what a great motive, why don't they develope it further?". =P And here we go with self-fulfilling prophecies again. Of course it would sound strange now to do it differently when we have totooed the pattern to our brain via radio and TV, but that doesn't mean it absolutely _couldn't_ be done better. =P And if it's perfect, why do you ever play anything else?
I think you're missing my point. I said A song CAN be perfect like that. Again, it's a matter of figuring out what sound a given song should have and keying the instruments toward it. Seven Nation Army works like it does because it's a thumping, almost marching feel.
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