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  #1  
Old 02-23-2010, 08:50 PM
Biscuit Biscuit is offline
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Default Heads are doing something weird.

I done a search and i couldn't find an answer to my question. Sorry if this has been asked before.

What does it mean when the oily substance between the 2 ply heads is still visible after tuneing? Is this normal? It just caught my attention today and i was wondering if this was normal. They are Evans G2 batter heads if that helps. I used Remo Pinstrips before switching and never had that problem before. Can someone please shet some light on this? Thanks in advance!!
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  #2  
Old 02-23-2010, 09:28 PM
audiotech
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Default Re: Heads are doing something weird.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biscuit View Post
I done a search and i couldn't find an answer to my question. Sorry if this has been asked before.

What does it mean when the oily substance between the 2 ply heads is still visible after tuneing? Is this normal? It just caught my attention today and i was wondering if this was normal. They are Evans G2 batter heads if that helps. I used Remo Pinstrips before switching and never had that problem before. Can someone please shet some light on this? Thanks in advance!!
There actually is no oil in an Evans G2 head. The only related oil substance would be in the Evans Hydraulic heads. What you're experiencing are "Newton Rings". The rings are normally seen in two ply clear heads. It's caused by two highly polished surfaces (the Mylar) coming together at uneven pressures or tensions.

If any one is interested in the definition of Newton Rings, I can elaborate.

Dennis
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  #3  
Old 02-23-2010, 10:13 PM
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WayneWickman WayneWickman is offline
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Default Re: Heads are doing something weird.

Damn good answer....Yes, please elaborate.
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  #4  
Old 02-23-2010, 10:34 PM
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Default Re: Heads are doing something weird.

I have always noticed the "Newton Rings" that appear in my two ply heads. I always thought that they were caused by light passing through the condensation that got between the plies. Kind of a prism, if you will. I accepted them as a natural phenomenon years ago. I think that they look cool!
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  #5  
Old 02-23-2010, 11:33 PM
audiotech
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Default Re: Heads are doing something weird.

This could get boring to a lot of people and some of the younger generation probably won't know what I'm taking about. Anyway, about forty five years ago I started in the field of photography. Back then it was the age of film and when someone wanted a print larger than the contact size of the negative, it had to be enlarged. This was done with a photographic enlarger were the negative was placed inside the enlarger in what's called a negative carrier and the distance between the negative carrier and the photographic "enlarging" paper determined the size of the "print". The black and white negative has basically two components, the emulsion side which is actually the image and dull when light is reflected off of it and the backing or base side which is a highly polished film. When this negative was inserted into the enlarger, the heat of the light bulb inside the enlarger would sometimes cause the "film" to buckle and this would cause various areas on the print to be out of focus. To alleviate this problem they invented "glass" negative carriers. With this glass insert, the carrier would sandwich the negative and keep it completely flat, thus getting rid of any kind of focus problems in the print. Beside having four more surfaces to keep clean and dust free so the imperfections would not be transmitted to the print, we now have the problem with the top sheet of glass making perfect contact with the top of the negative or base side of the film. When the pressure is not completely even across the top of the film, "Newton Rings" would appear because of the two highly polished surfaces. The only way to get rid of them was to adjust the pressure inside of the carrier or use something called "anti Newton ring glass". It was sheets of glass that were very finely etched so this effect would be eliminated.

There ya go.
Dennis
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  #6  
Old 02-23-2010, 11:53 PM
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WayneWickman WayneWickman is offline
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Default Re: Heads are doing something weird.

Thank you. Learned something new today.
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  #7  
Old 02-24-2010, 07:19 AM
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Les Ismore Les Ismore is offline
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Default Re: Heads are doing something weird.

Newton Rings... thought I saw that on a restaurant menu somewhere.

'Anti Newton ring heads', great marketing idea!

EVANS should jump on it, capitalize on all the drummers who would prefer heads without unsightly Newton Rings. A 'clear' alternative.

End the worry of Newton Rings oozing out and making a mess all over should a drumhead break/crack.
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  #8  
Old 02-24-2010, 05:46 PM
Biscuit Biscuit is offline
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Default Re: Heads are doing something weird.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiotech View Post
This could get boring to a lot of people and some of the younger generation probably won't know what I'm taking about. Anyway, about forty five years ago I started in the field of photography. Back then it was the age of film and when someone wanted a print larger than the contact size of the negative, it had to be enlarged. This was done with a photographic enlarger were the negative was placed inside the enlarger in what's called a negative carrier and the distance between the negative carrier and the photographic "enlarging" paper determined the size of the "print". The black and white negative has basically two components, the emulsion side which is actually the image and dull when light is reflected off of it and the backing or base side which is a highly polished film. When this negative was inserted into the enlarger, the heat of the light bulb inside the enlarger would sometimes cause the "film" to buckle and this would cause various areas on the print to be out of focus. To alleviate this problem they invented "glass" negative carriers. With this glass insert, the carrier would sandwich the negative and keep it completely flat, thus getting rid of any kind of focus problems in the print. Beside having four more surfaces to keep clean and dust free so the imperfections would not be transmitted to the print, we now have the problem with the top sheet of glass making perfect contact with the top of the negative or base side of the film. When the pressure is not completely even across the top of the film, "Newton Rings" would appear because of the two highly polished surfaces. The only way to get rid of them was to adjust the pressure inside of the carrier or use something called "anti Newton ring glass". It was sheets of glass that were very finely etched so this effect would be eliminated.

There ya go.
Dennis
Wow!! Thanks Audiotech!! That's something i would have NEVER thought about. I'll take my head off tonight and retune it and see what happens. Thanks again Audiotech and thanks to everyone else that replied! You guys are awsome!!
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  #9  
Old 02-24-2010, 08:45 PM
audiotech
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Default Re: Heads are doing something weird.

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Originally Posted by Biscuit View Post
Wow!! Thanks Audiotech!! That's something i would have NEVER thought about. I'll take my head off tonight and retune it and see what happens. Thanks again Audiotech and thanks to everyone else that replied! You guys are awsome!!
If your drums sound good to you, I would let them be. Newton Rings won't affect the sound of your drums, they are only an anomaly of sight, not sound when using a two ply clear head.

Dennis
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  #10  
Old 02-25-2010, 11:12 AM
thatguykalem
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Default Re: Heads are doing something weird.

Whenever I see these, it's generally around large dents (in OTHER people's kits). I generally try to avoid them. They don't really make a difference to the sound of your drum, but I just don't like dents =D
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  #11  
Old 02-26-2010, 07:14 AM
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Jessiah331 Jessiah331 is offline
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Default Re: Heads are doing something weird.

I have Remo Ebony pinstripes on my set. Brand new they showed the oily substance. It's like a purple, pink, and green mixture.


I assumed this was normal, as their is oil in between two plys?

Hmmm...
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  #12  
Old 02-26-2010, 03:20 PM
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Default Re: Heads are doing something weird.

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Originally Posted by Jessiah331 View Post
I have Remo Ebony pinstripes on my set. Brand new they showed the oily substance. It's like a purple, pink, and green mixture.


I assumed this was normal, as their is oil in between two plys?

Hmmm...
Nope, no oil in the pinstripes
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  #13  
Old 02-26-2010, 03:22 PM
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Default Re: Heads are doing something weird.

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Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post
Nope, no oil in the pinstripes
Yes oil between them to take the shock
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  #14  
Old 02-26-2010, 03:25 PM
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Default Re: Heads are doing something weird.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biscuit View Post
I done a search and i couldn't find an answer to my question. Sorry if this has been asked before.

What does it mean when the oily substance between the 2 ply heads is still visible after tuneing? Is this normal? It just caught my attention today and i was wondering if this was normal. They are Evans G2 batter heads if that helps. I used Remo Pinstrips before switching and never had that problem before. Can someone please shet some light on this? Thanks in advance!!
Dont worry its normal, it in there to take the shock of the stick
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  #15  
Old 02-26-2010, 04:18 PM
audiotech
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Default Re: Heads are doing something weird.

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Originally Posted by chrisg View Post
Dont worry its normal, it in there to take the shock of the stick
Sometimes I think I just waste my time.

Dennis
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  #16  
Old 02-26-2010, 04:40 PM
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Default Re: Heads are doing something weird.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiotech View Post
Sometimes I think I just waste my time.

Dennis
Haha! A lot of folks just click, read the OP, and post without reading any of the responses. We've all done it before. ;)
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  #17  
Old 02-26-2010, 06:05 PM
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wolfmoon wolfmoon is offline
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Default Re: Heads are doing something weird.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisg View Post
Yes oil between them to take the shock
Nope . . . read the thread. There is no oil in Evans G2's or Remo Pinstripe heads. The only head that has oil between the plies are Evans Hydraulics which was mentioned in the 2nd post.
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  #18  
Old 02-26-2010, 06:35 PM
TheArchitect
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Default Re: Heads are doing something weird.

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Yes oil between them to take the shock
WTF? Take the shock? Get a clue sir
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  #19  
Old 02-26-2010, 06:36 PM
TheArchitect
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Default Re: Heads are doing something weird.

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Originally Posted by chrisg View Post
Dont worry its normal, it in there to take the shock of the stick
You need to stop posting incorrect information. Pinstripes DO NOT have oil in them
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  #20  
Old 02-27-2010, 02:13 AM
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Default Re: Heads are doing something weird.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiotech View Post
This could get boring to a lot of people and some of the younger generation probably won't know what I'm taking about. Anyway, about forty five years ago I started in the field of photography. Back then it was the age of film and when someone wanted a print larger than the contact size of the negative, it had to be enlarged. This was done with a photographic enlarger were the negative was placed inside the enlarger in what's called a negative carrier and the distance between the negative carrier and the photographic "enlarging" paper determined the size of the "print". The black and white negative has basically two components, the emulsion side which is actually the image and dull when light is reflected off of it and the backing or base side which is a highly polished film. When this negative was inserted into the enlarger, the heat of the light bulb inside the enlarger would sometimes cause the "film" to buckle and this would cause various areas on the print to be out of focus. To alleviate this problem they invented "glass" negative carriers. With this glass insert, the carrier would sandwich the negative and keep it completely flat, thus getting rid of any kind of focus problems in the print. Beside having four more surfaces to keep clean and dust free so the imperfections would not be transmitted to the print, we now have the problem with the top sheet of glass making perfect contact with the top of the negative or base side of the film. When the pressure is not completely even across the top of the film, "Newton Rings" would appear because of the two highly polished surfaces. The only way to get rid of them was to adjust the pressure inside of the carrier or use something called "anti Newton ring glass". It was sheets of glass that were very finely etched so this effect would be eliminated.

There ya go.
Dennis
i read this post a few days ago, went down to my studio and tripped out for like an hour hitting my heads and watching all the "newton rings" swirl around. put on some floyd, turned on a couple of black lights....

sad part was i wasn't even on anything and i was all grinnin and amazed like i was...

your not unread dude, the people that did read were all plaecebo stoned watching newton rings for the past couple of days....
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  #21  
Old 02-27-2010, 02:24 AM
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Default Re: Heads are doing something weird.

Double ply with Newton Rings rule! Single ply clears drool!
I've always watched the Newton Rings on my two plies as I played.
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Last edited by bobdadruma; 02-27-2010 at 02:38 AM.
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  #22  
Old 02-27-2010, 06:30 AM
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Jessiah331 Jessiah331 is offline
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Default Re: Heads are doing something weird.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post
You need to stop posting incorrect information. Pinstripes DO NOT have oil in them
Before everyone gets their knickers in a bunch...

'some unnamed oily substance' I'm not sure what it is, but there is some form of a liquid substance in between the two plys of all 5 of my ebony's

;)
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  #23  
Old 02-27-2010, 06:53 AM
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Les Ismore Les Ismore is offline
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Default Re: Heads are doing something weird.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessiah331 View Post
Before everyone gets their knickers in a bunch...

'some unnamed oily substance' I'm not sure what it is, but there is some form of a liquid substance in between the two plys of all 5 of my ebony's

;)
I hear tell Newton Rings excrete an oily enzyme after breeding.

Last edited by Les Ismore; 07-20-2010 at 04:40 AM.
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  #24  
Old 02-27-2010, 01:24 PM
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Default Re: Heads are doing something weird.

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Originally Posted by Jessiah331 View Post
Before everyone gets their knickers in a bunch...

'some unnamed oily substance' I'm not sure what it is, but there is some form of a liquid substance in between the two plys of all 5 of my ebony's

;)
No, There is nothing in there. Welcome to the block list. Uninformed I can deal with. Unwilling to learn I cannot. Waste someone else's time.
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  #25  
Old 03-01-2010, 09:42 PM
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Default Re: Heads are doing something weird.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post
No, There is nothing in there. Welcome to the block list. Uninformed I can deal with. Unwilling to learn I cannot. Waste someone else's time.
I don't understand why some people have to act like this. I was simply stating that it seems to me (excuse me for being uninformed?) that logically if there is a green, blue, and purple color in between the two plys of heads, and it moves around when I press on it, something would be in there.

Try to grow up. It's just the internet. Flipping out on people for simply stating their opinion gets you nowhere.
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  #26  
Old 03-02-2010, 02:51 PM
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Default Re: Heads are doing something weird.

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Originally Posted by Jessiah331 View Post
I don't understand why some people have to act like this. I was simply stating that it seems to me (excuse me for being uninformed?) that logically if there is a green, blue, and purple color in between the two plys of heads, and it moves around when I press on it, something would be in there.

Try to grow up. It's just the internet. Flipping out on people for simply stating their opinion gets you nowhere.
Your blatantly spreading misinformation. That's why people "act like this" Try a 30 search and get a few facts and you would see that your logic is plainly wrong. The information is right on Remo's site. If you don't know what your talking about and can't or won't invest 30 seconds to find out then STFU.
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Old 03-02-2010, 07:31 PM
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Default Re: Heads are doing something weird.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post
Your blatantly spreading misinformation. That's why people "act like this" Try a 30 search and get a few facts and you would see that your logic is plainly wrong. The information is right on Remo's site. If you don't know what your talking about and can't or won't invest 30 seconds to find out then STFU.
One word: decaf...

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  #28  
Old 03-03-2010, 02:08 AM
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Default Re: Heads are doing something weird.

And a couple of more words: Adios, muchacho.
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  #29  
Old 03-03-2010, 07:51 AM
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Jessiah331 Jessiah331 is offline
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Default Re: Heads are doing something weird.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post
Your blatantly spreading misinformation. That's why people "act like this" Try a 30 search and get a few facts and you would see that your logic is plainly wrong. The information is right on Remo's site. If you don't know what your talking about and can't or won't invest 30 seconds to find out then STFU.
I'm sorry for simply stating what I thought was true on a forum. You didn't tell the OP to search? I'm gonna be the adult in this conversation and end it. I thought you blocked me, but you still respond to my post. I think I'll step up and do it.

Nice chatting with you.
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  #30  
Old 03-05-2010, 07:26 AM
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Default Re: Heads are doing something weird.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiotech View Post
This could get boring to a lot of people and some of the younger generation probably won't know what I'm taking about. Anyway, about forty five years ago I started in the field of photography. Back then it was the age of film and when someone wanted a print larger than the contact size of the negative, it had to be enlarged. This was done with a photographic enlarger were the negative was placed inside the enlarger in what's called a negative carrier and the distance between the negative carrier and the photographic "enlarging" paper determined the size of the "print". The black and white negative has basically two components, the emulsion side which is actually the image and dull when light is reflected off of it and the backing or base side which is a highly polished film. When this negative was inserted into the enlarger, the heat of the light bulb inside the enlarger would sometimes cause the "film" to buckle and this would cause various areas on the print to be out of focus. To alleviate this problem they invented "glass" negative carriers. With this glass insert, the carrier would sandwich the negative and keep it completely flat, thus getting rid of any kind of focus problems in the print. Beside having four more surfaces to keep clean and dust free so the imperfections would not be transmitted to the print, we now have the problem with the top sheet of glass making perfect contact with the top of the negative or base side of the film. When the pressure is not completely even across the top of the film, "Newton Rings" would appear because of the two highly polished surfaces. The only way to get rid of them was to adjust the pressure inside of the carrier or use something called "anti Newton ring glass". It was sheets of glass that were very finely etched so this effect would be eliminated.

There ya go.
Dennis
You had me until "45 years ago"......ZZZzzzzzzzz - lol!

These rings also appear in Clear Emperors which, like Pinstipes, do not have any oil between the plies. Evans was the only drumhead manufacturer to put oil between plies in the Hydraulic series, which are about the deadest sounding heads you can use. Don't believe me? Listen to the tom sounds on Aja - these are Hydraulic heads on those drums!

The reason the Pinstripes sound the way they do is the bonded inch or so where fiberglass is used, along with adhesive, to bond the heads together at the circumference of the head.

Newton's rings are tasty Les Ismore, especially wqhen they are fried. But they do make your breath stink!

Mike

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  #31  
Old 03-08-2010, 08:40 PM
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Default Re: Heads are doing something weird.

Two days ago my friends and I were at a music store and we saw a PDP kit with EC2 Coated heads on it. These heads are also two ply but not sealed like Pinstripes around the edges. However, they too had the colorful stuff going on and I had to explain to my friend that there was no oil in between these plies. See, it happens with Evans heads too.
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  #32  
Old 03-16-2010, 11:56 PM
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Default Re: Heads are doing something weird.

no. as far as i've ever heard (from remo.com or from drum forums) there is no oil between the layers of Pinstripes.

however - there is SOMETHING going on there.

i have not had the appearance of red, yellow or green liquidy substance, but as has been reported by two other posters i have a greenish layer underneath the black patent leather (that's what i call it) and a grey layer underneath that. it looks just like what happens to a Black X after a little beating. in fact, i would say that the Suede heads are the exact material as the Ebony Pinstripe material minus the patent leather.

but what is it ? what is that going on there ?

and where's my yellow and red color scheme ?
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