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  #1  
Old 02-12-2010, 06:06 PM
stabmasterarson stabmasterarson is offline
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Default 2 kick drums and small stages

Hey guys

I have a basic problem. Big kit that I like, and all the stages my band plays on are too small to fit it on. Its 2 kicks, 3 rack toms, and 2 floor toms, with hh, ride, and 6 cymbals.

I got a curved pearl icon rack that I only use 2 of the 3 sections with to hold all this stuff, but that is even too big for the stages we play on.

we play metal, and the guys in the band don't want me to go to one kick, neither do I really, I like the feeling of 2 single pedals.

I thought the rack would make my setup and teardown process easier and simpler to duplicate every show we play, but due to the different sizes of stages and different amounts of setup and teardown time, I feel like I'm reinventing the wheel every time I set up. Its really frustrating, I used to be a bass player and my setup involved getting the amp on stage and plugging it in. Now it takes me 15 minutes to set up, and if my stuff is too cramped up I start catching sticks all over my set and throwing lumber around the stage.

What are some hardware recommendations you can give me? Should I go back to stands and maybe hang the toms off of them? Is there any mini rack type things that take up little space and attach to cymbal stands maybe?

Seriously this is making gigging a huge pain in the ass and not fun, I also use triggers and have to set those up too so I want to simplify my life, shrink my kit's footprint and not have to downsize my kit. Is this impossible?
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Old 02-12-2010, 06:10 PM
sabian92 sabian92 is offline
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Default Re: 2 kick drums and small stages

Could you not use a double bass pedal? I mean if it's that much of a problem, losing a bass drum will save you a lot of stage space that you can do with.

Other than that, sit behind your kit and ask yourself this:

What can I do without?

You'd be surprised how much you can save yourself in time if you really think about it.
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  #3  
Old 02-12-2010, 06:37 PM
stabmasterarson stabmasterarson is offline
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Default Re: 2 kick drums and small stages

it's not so much the double kick drums, as the gigantic rack. On gibraltar racks, can you slide upright legs so they are not right on the end of the cross bars? Because that is my main problem, I can't find enough stage to put the feet of the rack on the stage reliably
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Old 02-12-2010, 09:25 PM
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JAKD-UP JAKD-UP is offline
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Default Re: 2 kick drums and small stages

Are you saying that your kit will not fit on a drum riser? If so this is easy...move your singer to the drum riser and you set up on the stage in front of him. It's actually a cool visual from the crowd's perspective.

But if that don't work out I would try to minimize as much as I can. Racks may seem like they are the solution but I found out they are just as much a PITA as stands. Maybe even more.
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Old 02-12-2010, 10:00 PM
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diosdude diosdude is offline
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Default Re: 2 kick drums and small stages

Dude, it's your curved ICON bars that are the problem. Pearl needs to offer some options for bar length, not just those long (46" i think they are) curved vertical bars. I had the same problem with my rack, i had 2 curved sections, one each spanning over the bass drums but the setup ended up being too damn wide, even though i had 5 rack toms across! I ended up swapping them out with the side wing bars which were the shorter straight ICON bars. Rack "footprints" are going to be much smaller than any tripod combinations, there's really no debate over that. As much as i love my Icon rack, it never leaves the studio. I've got a very compact Gibraltar rack that i personally custom cut for my gig kit, which has twin 20x18 bass drums. I made the bar lengths just long enough to accomodate all of the hardware and cut off the excess with a pipe cutter. Now, my double bass kit, which has very small drums, fits in the same area as a Bigger 6 pc kit.

here's the studio kit with the curved rack bars in front:


Here's the kit with the straight bars in the front, saving me a couple feet in width:


Here's my "gig" kit that i customized all the tube lengths for:

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Old 02-12-2010, 10:31 PM
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latzanimal latzanimal is offline
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Default Re: 2 kick drums and small stages

You need to go to a Voelker/Falicon/levelrack. The footprint for these are roughly 4' x 4' for double bass. Everything mounts to the rack, including the kicks. In fact, the kicks hang out.

I have used mine in many places that would not have been able to fit the kit with traditional stands or a traditional rack.

Here is a pic of mine:

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Old 02-12-2010, 10:41 PM
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konaboy konaboy is offline
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Default Re: 2 kick drums and small stages

So why don't the guys in the band want you going to one bass with a double pedal?

For me when it comes to my setup it's up to me not the band what I use. That would be like telling the guitar player how many cabs he should have or the type of guitar he should play.

removing one bass from the mix will free up quite a bit of stage space. and if you are cramped for space going with stands and clamps may be the better bet.
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Old 02-12-2010, 11:04 PM
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Default Re: 2 kick drums and small stages

Yep, double bass drums if you have the room and double pedals if you don't. It's just a matter of playing two pedals with some linkage.

Dennis
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Old 02-13-2010, 08:02 AM
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latzanimal latzanimal is offline
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Default Re: 2 kick drums and small stages

I'm tellin ya.. Levelrack. They are not nearly as expensive as one would think....
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  #10  
Old 02-16-2010, 07:34 AM
stabmasterarson stabmasterarson is offline
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Default Re: 2 kick drums and small stages

Jesus jumpin that levelrack must take an hour to set up. We play in shows with 4 bands and 20 minute changeovers. I can hardly setup my kit on the icon rack in that amount of time, and every time I set up, I am reinventing the wheel because things like boom arms move from the trip to the show. It saves me no time, causes me more headaches, and I'm pretty sure I can use 4 cymbal stands to hold all my cymbals and toms in the same space as the icon rack takes up right now. I have a master plan. It involves those dogbone things you can attach to boom arms and tom arms, and a lot of boom arms.
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Old 02-16-2010, 09:04 AM
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latzanimal latzanimal is offline
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Default Re: 2 kick drums and small stages

Quote:
Originally Posted by stabmasterarson View Post
Jesus jumpin that levelrack must take an hour to set up. We play in shows with 4 bands and 20 minute changeovers. I can hardly setup my kit on the icon rack in that amount of time, and every time I set up, I am reinventing the wheel because things like boom arms move from the trip to the show. It saves me no time, causes me more headaches, and I'm pretty sure I can use 4 cymbal stands to hold all my cymbals and toms in the same space as the icon rack takes up right now. I have a master plan. It involves those dogbone things you can attach to boom arms and tom arms, and a lot of boom arms.
You are not taking advantage of all of the racks capabilities. First, nothing should be moving. You obviously are not using memory locks. Memory locks are a drummers best friend no matter what size your kit is. Second, if you are playing on multiple band billings, why are you not setting up before you play, off to the side so that your kit can be moved up there quickly?

I can have my kit (shown above) setup, fully mic'd, triggers plugged in, and ready for soundcheck in 30 minutes if I hussle, 45 min taking my time. I should also tell you each drum has a microphone mounted inside and an electronic trigger on the outside, not to mention the 10 electronic pads. The kit moves on and off stage in 12 minutes tops including a 36 space (6'5") shock mounted electronic rack, and monitors.

Levelrack, I'm telling ya.....
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Old 02-16-2010, 03:53 PM
stabmasterarson stabmasterarson is offline
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Default Re: 2 kick drums and small stages

Quote:
Originally Posted by latzanimal View Post
You are not taking advantage of all of the racks capabilities. First, nothing should be moving. You obviously are not using memory locks. Memory locks are a drummers best friend no matter what size your kit is. Second, if you are playing on multiple band billings, why are you not setting up before you play, off to the side so that your kit can be moved up there quickly?

I can have my kit (shown above) setup, fully mic'd, triggers plugged in, and ready for soundcheck in 30 minutes if I hussle, 45 min taking my time. I should also tell you each drum has a microphone mounted inside and an electronic trigger on the outside, not to mention the 10 electronic pads. The kit moves on and off stage in 12 minutes tops including a 36 space (6'5") shock mounted electronic rack, and monitors.

Levelrack, I'm telling ya.....

We're talking shows with 4 metal bands with big kits, and small 100-150 capacity bars with no room to set anything up. Soundcheck? That takes 3 minutes right before we play. I play with triggers too. I use memory locks. All the rack clamps stay where I put them. I don't take every piece of hardware out of the rack clamps before I transport it because I figure that would negate any time saving benefit in using the rack at all. When the rack gets transported, boom arms swivel, tom arms swivel, etc.

I don't have a roadie unless you can count my vocalist and he is a retard. The other guys are setting their gear up so I'm always the last guy done, everyone in the club is looking at me waiting for me to finish tweaking my setup.

I honestly think I jumped the gun with the rack and I can be better served with a few stands that move individually, allowing me to fine tune my setup more easily than on a rack, in my experience.

Seriously though that level rack looks awesome. Just by the time it was set up my band would have time to play 3 songs in the dives where we play. Metal is not very well supported by venues in vancouver.
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Old 02-17-2010, 07:59 PM
614Drums 614Drums is offline
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Default Re: 2 kick drums and small stages

Quote:
Originally Posted by stabmasterarson View Post
We're talking shows with 4 metal bands with big kits, and small 100-150 capacity bars with no room to set anything up. Soundcheck? That takes 3 minutes right before we play. I play with triggers too. I use memory locks. All the rack clamps stay where I put them. I don't take every piece of hardware out of the rack clamps before I transport it because I figure that would negate any time saving benefit in using the rack at all. When the rack gets transported, boom arms swivel, tom arms swivel, etc.

I don't have a roadie unless you can count my vocalist and he is a retard. The other guys are setting their gear up so I'm always the last guy done, everyone in the club is looking at me waiting for me to finish tweaking my setup.

I honestly think I jumped the gun with the rack and I can be better served with a few stands that move individually, allowing me to fine tune my setup more easily than on a rack, in my experience.

Seriously though that level rack looks awesome. Just by the time it was set up my band would have time to play 3 songs in the dives where we play. Metal is not very well supported by venues in vancouver.
This is going to sound odd, but it helps. Get some tape and mark of a small space (about the average size of the bar you play) Take your drums down to the same level they're set up at before you get on stage, and just practice setting it up. See what's easier and what takes too long. Also someone posted that they cut down their rack with a pipe-cutter. I would suggest doing this. Cut off the excess bs on you rack.
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  #14  
Old 02-19-2010, 05:14 AM
stabmasterarson stabmasterarson is offline
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Default Re: 2 kick drums and small stages

sold it today for 400 bux. Bought 2 boom stands, 2 grabber clamps and one of those gibraltar cymbal stacker setups. Now my kit goes up a bit faster, and takes up less space. Win!


Plus I got the boom stands and stuff for free and made 100 bucks on the deal
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