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  #41  
Old 01-24-2010, 02:46 AM
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Default Re: James Cameron's Avatar

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Originally Posted by freebirdgdw View Post
I have many views on this film and they may not all go down well haha!

Firstly I was very critical of this film before I saw it and although my friend said it will be one of the greatest films ever, i disagreed. However I'm not one of these people that refuse to see a film because of hype or other peoples opinions etc or to try and be different and rebel. I try to see as many films as possible to fully understand and appreciate the world of film. So i went with him to see it on the opening day (at an iMax screen in 3D to maximise the experience) and I can honestly say it blew me away. I thought it was amazing and is definitely one of the best films I've ever seen.

The 3D and special effects absolutely amazed me. I'm more than willing to sit back and fully appreciate something as beautiful and astounding as Avatar. You couldn't of had graphics like tis 10 years ago. Once again people who are willing to miss out on such a land mark in special effects because they heard the story line wasn't up to Shakespeare's level are what I'd call 'idiots'.

As for the script/story line, it's not the best ever or the most original but what is. There's a theory that all films can be stripped down to about 5 or 6 different simple story lines. Take The Matrix for example, The protagonists world is not what it seems and is turned upside down, so he joins a rebellion to beat the system. What's new about that. What makes The Matrix special is the details; bullet time, fight scenes, characters etc. Same for Avatar, the difference is in the details. (I have nothing against The Matrix btw, it's one of my favorite films but I just used it as an example).

I'm very passionate about film and study it at uni as well as going to cinema at least once a week, having a large DVD collection and buying/reading movie magazines. I'm not saying this makes me an expert on the matter by any means but I'm just pointing out that I have made my opinions of this film with reference to many factors.

Another criticisms of the film I've heard are 'it's too long', 'I got bored' or 'it's too far fetched'. These people are also idiots who get more excited about whatever crap rom-com Adam Sandler will be in next. I am not even going to go into this matter!

My opinions may ruffle a few feathers haha but it's what i think and you're entitled to you're opinions too even if you're wrong :P



This is the only film he has made since Titanic, which lets be honest isn't an awful movie. There are much, much worse movies being released all the time, and if you happened to catch one of these, you wouldn't look up the director to especially avoid their future releases normally.

No doubt his old work is amazing too though
Having not seen the movie, I won't judge it, but it sounds to me that you like movies that are more like video games. I will not see an animated movie. Just not my taste. I have nothing against 3D as I have seen a bunch that were good, but I would like to see an adventure movie or drama with real scenery, real people, etc. Anything Alfred Hitchcock come to mind. Let's keep the video games for the xBox and start making real movies again with REAL cinematography. Computers have taken over enough of our lives, he said typing on one, and would just like to see a real movie again without all of the computerization.
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  #42  
Old 01-24-2010, 03:46 AM
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Default Re: James Cameron's Avatar

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Having not seen the movie, I won't judge it, but it sounds to me that you like movies that are more like video games. I will not see an animated movie. Just not my taste. I have nothing against 3D as I have seen a bunch that were good, but I would like to see an adventure movie or drama with real scenery, real people, etc. Anything Alfred Hitchcock come to mind. Let's keep the video games for the xBox and start making real movies again with REAL cinematography. Computers have taken over enough of our lives, he said typing on one, and would just like to see a real movie again without all of the computerization.
I'm not all about graphics, but it is a big aspect of modern cinema. I'm simply stating that this is a big landmark in terms of graphics and cinema for that matter. If there was a film out with what was believed to the best script so far or the best acting so far, people would go and see it. I'm not saying special effects are as important but I just needed a comparison. PLus this isn't like watching animation. It's that good it looks REAL, it looks like there are actual blue people on the screen, not animated ones.

If it's really not for you I'd recommend 'The Road'. Depressing as hell but all about the actors performance.

My point with this movie (Avatar) is that is a real Star Wars moment (of my generation) and I just want everyone to be a part of it.
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  #43  
Old 01-24-2010, 03:53 AM
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Default Re: James Cameron's Avatar

Understood. I was watching a clip on the Golden Globe Awards show where one character was riding some beast and and it just looked like a video game. I appreciate your excellent review and for a heads up on The Road.
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  #44  
Old 01-24-2010, 03:53 AM
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What amazed me about Avatar was not the 3D, which I took for granted pretty quickly, but its beauty - the scenery, the animals, the Na'vi. My eyes couldn't get enough of it.
Exactly. It looks and feels amazingly real, but like something new, that we've never seen before. There were parts of it that brought actual tears to my eyes through sheer beauty. Breathtaking.

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Hah, I didnt even know he made Avatar after Titanic. Well, I'm more or less avoiding big blockbuster movies since I saw that god-awful Pearl Harbour movie som years ago. Now I mostly watch Ingmar Bergman, David Lynch and those sort of deeper movies. Last year I tried to watch as many noir movies as possible, but there wasnt that many of them that were any interesting. Sometimes though, It's cool with easy to like movies, but then I pop in some zombie-movies or ace venture. Sort of a guilty pleasure..
haha yeah Pearl Harbor literally was a disaster. I too like independent film though and love the small screen. I've been doing a lot about recently on a module at uni. A great English director I love is Shane Meadows. You should check him out.
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  #45  
Old 01-24-2010, 05:32 AM
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Default Re: James Cameron's Avatar

GD, Brokeback Mountain was another movie with superb scripting, plotting and acting with breathtaking cinematography - and also as depressing as hell :)

For gritty depressiveness with depth, just about any French or German movie will do the trick ...
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  #46  
Old 01-24-2010, 06:36 AM
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Default Re: James Cameron's Avatar

I, a love the french.
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  #47  
Old 01-25-2010, 08:00 AM
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Default Re: James Cameron's Avatar

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My point with this movie (Avatar) is that is a real Star Wars moment (of my generation) and I just want everyone to be a part of it.
Well I've seen both but I'll be honest and fess up that my old age puts me in the Star Wars generation.Having lived through both though, I'd like to put forth that Star Wars was a much greater leap forward than Avatar and more of a landmark movie. It's just better on almost all levels.

Special effects - Judging each movie according to when they were made, Star Wars has superior and more realistic efx and didn't have to use CGI, 3D or Imax to achieve them.

Characters - The Star Wars characters are hands down more original, believable and likeable. Much easier to connect with than the wooden cookie cutter characters of Avatar. Plus Avatar doesn't have a villian anywhere near as good as Darth Vader.

Plot - Both had a general kind of good vs evil plot that we all pretty much know what will happen. I'll give a draw on this one. Although Star Wars seemed to hint at a much bigger story than what we were seeing at the time. (Who knew?)

Writing - Again Star Wars gets the nod here. Much better dialog. This is one of the things that seperates the Original Star Wars that I love so much from the Horrid newer Prequels.

Cultural Impact - Avatar has been popular for sure, but with today's short attention spans I don't think it will make the same impact that Star Wars did.

But hey, if you like Avatar then go with it. I've seen worse movies. I just think the hype machine behind Avatar has made it a bit overrated.

Star Wars is/was better.
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  #48  
Old 01-25-2010, 08:33 AM
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Default Re: James Cameron's Avatar

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Writing - Again Star Wars gets the nod here. Much better dialog. This is one of the things that seperates the Original Star Wars that I love so much from the Horrid newer Prequels.
Yes, Avatar at least never foisted dialogue quite as pitiful as that love scene between Padma and Annikin in Attack of the Clones:
Annikin: "You're so... beautiful"
Padme: "It's only because I'm so in love"
Annikin: "No, heh... no it's because I'm so in love with you"
That was pretty special lol. Before writing that George Lucas really needed to go easy on the sci-fi and Mrs Magic Inflatable and find himself a real woman so he'd know what people in love are really like.
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  #49  
Old 01-25-2010, 04:08 PM
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The visuals were very nice. Overall, one of the best movies to come out of Hollywood in years. I was worried that there was no original material left in the movieworld and we were relegated to re-makes for the rest of our lives. As to all the whining from people who don't like the plot - don't go see it if it bothers you that much. I personally think the Star Wars/Bat Man/Indian Jones' plots were all ridiculous too, but the movies were all entertaining nontheless. I mean, how many different takes can you do on the old overplayed "good vs evil" morality play? Yet people still eat that stuff up.

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  #50  
Old 01-26-2010, 05:08 AM
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Default Re: James Cameron's Avatar

Saw it again in the Imax in 3D today, and again it literally brought tears to my eyes, even my girlfriend who isn't a film fan filled up a couple of times at the visuals!

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Well I've seen both but I'll be honest and fess up that my old age puts me in the Star Wars generation.Having lived through both though, I'd like to put forth that Star Wars was a much greater leap forward than Avatar and more of a landmark movie. It's just better on almost all levels.

Special effects - Judging each movie according to when they were made, Star Wars has superior and more realistic efx and didn't have to use CGI, 3D or Imax to achieve them.

Characters - The Star Wars characters are hands down more original, believable and likeable. Much easier to connect with than the wooden cookie cutter characters of Avatar. Plus Avatar doesn't have a villian anywhere near as good as Darth Vader.

Plot - Both had a general kind of good vs evil plot that we all pretty much know what will happen. I'll give a draw on this one. Although Star Wars seemed to hint at a much bigger story than what we were seeing at the time. (Who knew?)

Writing - Again Star Wars gets the nod here. Much better dialog. This is one of the things that seperates the Original Star Wars that I love so much from the Horrid newer Prequels.

Cultural Impact - Avatar has been popular for sure, but with today's short attention spans I don't think it will make the same impact that Star Wars did.

But hey, if you like Avatar then go with it. I've seen worse movies. I just think the hype machine behind Avatar has made it a bit overrated.

Star Wars is/was better.
I know it was a big claim saying it was a Star Wars moment, and I didn't mean to say it's as good as the old Star Wars Trilogy I just meant it was a similar moment as in it represents a step forward in film and Cinema at its time of release.

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It was a great movie but at the beginning, remember how they said the aliens had skin as strong as bullet proof glass and bones like cement (Paraphrasing, I just remember they said they were very hard to kill). But in the big fight scene at the end they would get shot once and drop. Just something that made me think.
They don't say anything about strong skin, only bones like carbon fibre, so bullets can still easily penetrate their skin to kill them.
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Old 01-28-2010, 10:05 PM
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Default Re: James Cameron's Avatar

yeah, this movie sucks. I can't believe there are people who actually went to see this just for the visuals
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Old 01-28-2010, 10:44 PM
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Default Re: James Cameron's Avatar

Look at the pretty colours.
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  #53  
Old 01-29-2010, 12:29 AM
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yeah, this movie sucks. I can't believe there are people who actually went to see this just for the visuals
It's hard to believe there are people out there who enjoy beautiful design work or music with nothing more than great sounds and grooves.
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  #54  
Old 01-29-2010, 01:14 AM
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Default Re: James Cameron's Avatar

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It's hard to believe there are people out there who enjoy beautiful design work or music with nothing more than great sounds and grooves.
hahaha too right Polly!!! =]
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Old 01-29-2010, 03:52 AM
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It's hard to believe there are people out there who enjoy beautiful design work
well I personally think that there's more to a movie than just pretty colors
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  #56  
Old 01-29-2010, 03:54 AM
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there's more to a movie than just pretty colors
I've got a feeling we could just keep going in circles with this but there so much more to it than that. That being said these 'pretty colours' made me, my girlfriend, my best friend and several others I know cry because they are that beautiful.
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Old 01-29-2010, 05:35 AM
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I've got a feeling we could just keep going in circles with this but there so much more to it than that. That being said these 'pretty colours' made me, my girlfriend, my best friend and several others I know cry because they are that beautiful.
you're taking this movie way too seriously dude

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  #58  
Old 01-29-2010, 07:57 AM
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well I personally think that there's more to a movie than just pretty colors
Sure. Whatever works for you.
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Old 01-30-2010, 01:59 AM
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Default Re: James Cameron's Avatar

well a wudna be weepin, but the morals of the story are in the right place.
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Old 01-31-2010, 05:09 PM
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http://www.realitysandwich.com/avatar_parable_ascension

http://www.realitysandwich.com/avata..._higher_selves
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Old 01-31-2010, 05:57 PM
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wow.. someone needs to tell these people.... "its just a film FFS"

It's always funny when people go finding meaning and depth that was never intended to be there in the first place. If the director didnt intend it... then its not there. No point pretending you see something else in it, as you'd just be projecting your own beliefs onto the film.
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Old 02-01-2010, 05:47 PM
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Without reading any other posts:

This movie sucked. They managed to spend $500,000,000 on another star wars film.

Plot: Predictable, Childish, Boring, lacking of anything truly out of the box.
Action Sequences: Cool, but nothing new there.
Visuals: Stunning, Granted. Get over it, that's not what makes a movie
Acting: Sub Par. I can't appreciate CGI acting like that, it just kinda turned me off.

As a special effects piece, yea, great. I feel like I wasted $13 at the theater. $5 movie night would have been more appropriate. I feel very alone in this sentiment, my friends think I'm just being rude but the truth is the movie really disappointed me.

I spent almost 3 hours of my life watching an adult version of "Fern Gully."

I really wanted this to be a great movie, but this will not be one I put in my collection. Beautiful movie, but beautiful is all it is. You can't love a person just for how they look.
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Old 02-01-2010, 05:56 PM
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is that is a real Star Wars moment (of my generation) and I just want everyone to be a part of it.
Disagree. They used ads to push it that why but if it was a modern day star wars then I feel like it was a copy, not a re-invention. We need our own story. I feel that if this is the "star wars" of our generation then our cinema might have shot it's self in the head.
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Old 02-01-2010, 06:02 PM
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Let's keep the video games for the xBox and start making real movies again with REAL cinematography.
I agree, I feel separated from this film because it's so very far from real to me.

FreeBirdGDW: I don't mean to sound critical but saying it looks real is giving it far too much credit. I found myself more impressed with the imagery in "Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within." I have the same views on the acting, but I was much more impressed by the story, and the visual effects in that film seemed like much more of a leap, especially for the time.
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Old 02-01-2010, 07:59 PM
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I really wanted this to be a great movie, but this will not be one I put in my collection. Beautiful movie, but beautiful is all it is. You can't love a person just for how they look.
You've hit upon an endless frustration I have with James Cameron's movies. The thing is, Cameron is a master at directing highly ambitious movies that are huge in scope and monumentally challenging on a technical level. This is something that probably few people are capable of, and I have a tremendous amount of respect for his work on that level. However, as a screenwriter, I think Cameron is mediocre at best, and this is where his movies routinely fall short for me. This is not to say he doesn't think of good stories. He does. But developing story concepts and the actual nuts and bolts of writing a good screenplay are two different things. The latter takes a more exceptional talent for writing which I don't think he possesses. I think a guy like Cameron is probably convinced he can do it all, and who would argue with him, given his success? Consequently, he has been the sole writer on his more recent movies. Big mistake, imo. If he would only delegate the screenwriting duties to more talented writers, I think his movies would truly be masterpieces.
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Old 02-02-2010, 01:12 AM
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Default Re: James Cameron's Avatar

I'm going to take a back seat with this thread because I've got my views and opinions and so do others so I'm just going to leave it be :)
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Old 02-02-2010, 02:14 AM
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Default Re: James Cameron's Avatar

Sometimes I enjoy trashy stuff if it has a certain appeal and sometimes I enjoy very heady stuff.

Being able to enjoy movies (or music or art etc) on a visceral level does not preclude the ability to appreciate and enjoy works with more depth.
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Old 02-02-2010, 07:58 AM
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Hasn't this movie become the highest income movie of all time? Why are we even arguing about it?

Just a thought.
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Old 02-02-2010, 04:43 PM
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Hasn't this movie become the highest income movie of all time?
No. Not in inflation adjusted dollars. GWTW is still #1 and Star Wars #2. Avatar is moving up the list though.

And now that the Academy has expanded the best picture nominees to something like 80 different movies, it got a best picture nomination.
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Old 02-02-2010, 05:25 PM
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No. Not in inflation adjusted dollars. GWTW is still #1 and Star Wars #2. Avatar is moving up the list though.

And now that the Academy has expanded the best picture nominees to something like 80 different movies, it got a best picture nomination.
It's the highest grossing movie at the box office. second is Titanic, another Cameron movie.

http://www.imdb.com/boxoffice/alltim...ion=world-wide

I don't know about when it comes to general income including merchandise, DVDs etc though. I doubt much is ever going to beat Star Wars.
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Old 02-03-2010, 05:25 PM
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Sometimes I enjoy trashy stuff if it has a certain appeal and sometimes I enjoy very heady stuff.

Being able to enjoy movies (or music or art etc) on a visceral level does not preclude the ability to appreciate and enjoy works with more depth.
I didn't mean to spin it that way, Polly. I just feel this movie didn't accomplish what I had hoped.
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Old 02-03-2010, 07:02 PM
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It's the highest grossing movie at the box office. second is Titanic, another Cameron movie.

http://www.imdb.com/boxoffice/alltim...ion=world-wide

I don't know about when it comes to general income including merchandise, DVDs etc though. I doubt much is ever going to beat Star Wars.
That list is total gross, but of course if a ticket now costs $10-14 as opposed to $2 when Star Wars was out (I think) of course it will make money faster. You have to adjust for inflation.

Here's the list of inflation adjusted movie grosses (domestic)

http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm

It should really be tallied by number of tickets sold, kind of like gold and platinum records are based on numbers sold, not total dollar amounts.
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Old 02-04-2010, 04:22 AM
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That list is total gross, but of course if a ticket now costs $10-14 as opposed to $2 when Star Wars was out (I think) of course it will make money faster. You have to adjust for inflation.

Here's the list of inflation adjusted movie grosses (domestic)

http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm

It should really be tallied by number of tickets sold, kind of like gold and platinum records are based on numbers sold, not total dollar amounts.
Yeah that would be a better way of totaling film sales actually. I never thought of that. In ten years time when it cost 1000 to go to the cinema it'll go up in no time :P
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Old 02-05-2010, 07:27 AM
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Pavlos Pavlos is offline
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Default Re: James Cameron's Avatar

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Yeah that would be a better way of totaling film sales actually. I never thought of that. In ten years time when it cost 1000 to go to the cinema it'll go up in no time :P
I think this is another trick by the movie industry. They'll always have a new movie every few years to say is the Highest Gross ever. Just like now they've expanded the Best Picture nominee list to 10 from 5, so they can plaster it on more DVDs later as an Oscar nominee.

Avatar is moving up the inflation adjusted list though. I think it's at #21 all time.

GWTW still at number one is amazing.
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Old 02-05-2010, 10:49 AM
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Pollyanna Pollyanna is offline
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I didn't mean to spin it that way, Polly. I just feel this movie didn't accomplish what I had hoped.
Cheers Ian. I agree that if James C had put as much work into the script as he did into the visuals and sound Avatar would have been unbelievable, but we might have waited 10 more years for it. I guess the next step is to wait until someone with a great script uses the technology to take it to the next level.
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Old 02-05-2010, 06:57 PM
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Default Re: James Cameron's Avatar

Okay so, I loved this movie. And for the people saying "oh its just fern gully or Pocahontas!" well as someone whose been following the making of this movie for years, I figure you should know that thats exactly what Cameron wanted! He even SAID he wanted to create an epic science fiction spin off of Pocahontas.
And to those who are comparing it to star wars; STOP. Because avatar doesnt deserve to be compared to a movie as bad as star wars. Star wars was 110% nothing but visuals for its time. Do you ever wonder why only ONE actor from the star wars movies ever really went on to real success? its because the acting was awful, the writing was horrendous, and the characters were flat and boring.
Avatar's appeal isn't entirely just that it looks pretty either. However it was made to USE visuals to tell its story. 85% of the movie is told through what you see, and in turn what you feel as compared to what you're seeing. Sure the acting is somewhat lacking, but only in the spoken aspect. The Navi are actually just real people with sensors on their faces and bodies, so that every last little motion or facial twitch is picked up. The visuals are only so amazing, BECAUSE the acting was so good.
And I'm sorry, but you can only fool so many people into loving an overall sub-par movie. You cant get to be #1 of all time with sub-par. You just cant do it. I mean, not only did this movie earn more in the box office than any other before, but it also revolutionized the way movies will be made. I mean it grossed over a billion dollars, and the chinese even RENAMED the Southern Sky Column mountains to the "avatar-hallelujah mountains" just because it was THAT well received. Face it, you can whine, and complain, and hate the movie all you want. But you're the minority. A tiny minority. And with both the Golden Globe and Academy boards saying the opposite of what you're saying, chances are you're not right.
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Old 02-05-2010, 07:06 PM
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Pavlos Pavlos is offline
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Default Re: James Cameron's Avatar

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Because avatar doesnt deserve to be compared to a movie as bad as star wars. Star wars was 110% nothing but visuals for its time. Do you ever wonder why only ONE actor from the star wars movies ever really went on to real success? its because the acting was awful, the writing was horrendous, and the characters were flat and boring.
lol. That's funny since the exact opposite is true. The writing for the original 3 Star Wars was vastly superior to Avatar. Plus Star Wars had established stars like Alec Guiness and Peter Cushing as well as future megastar Harrison Ford. More than just one actor.

Star Wars worked on multiple levels. Avatar only offers visuals which many like and some don't.

Does Avatar have even one line of dialogue that is as memorable or ingrained into our culture as "May the force be with you?"

No

Plus Star Wars had way better music. John Williams rocks!
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Old 02-05-2010, 07:19 PM
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First off, avatar's most powerful line was meant to be "I see you."

And sorry, but the writing and acting in star wars was just crap. Go watch "a starwars xmas special" which was made right after the first movie with all the originial cast. GREAT ACTING RIGHT THERE. Happy life day.
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Old 02-05-2010, 07:37 PM
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Happy life day.
And may the force be with you Skywalker. : )
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Old 02-05-2010, 11:15 PM
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Strangelove Strangelove is offline
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Default Re: James Cameron's Avatar

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Face it, you can whine, and complain, and hate the movie all you want. But you're the minority. A tiny minority.
Point well made. I totally agree.
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