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  #1  
Old 01-22-2010, 08:23 PM
TNA TNA is offline
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Default Breaking Cymbals

I have been playing for about 5 years and have broken 2 cymbals, a medium PST5 crash, and a thin PST5 crash. I had the cymbals for about 2 years each before cracking and I thought that was normal. When I went to buy a new crash the guy at the store told me they shouldn't be breaking that often, and how he has had cymbals for 20 years. I've also read on here about people who have never cracked a cymbal. I think I have good technique, and I'm not one to really smash my cymbals when I hit. So is it natural for cymbals to break? Do I actually have bad technique I'm not aware of? Or are some people just lucky for having cymbals last 20 years?
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Old 01-22-2010, 08:43 PM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

well ive been playing for about 5 years and discovered alst week i had cracked both my crashes forst cymbals ive ever broken and they are far older than 5 years so i must have a fairly decnet technique. could be bad luck but tbh i doubt tht
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Old 01-22-2010, 08:49 PM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

No, it's not normal for cymbals to break, especially only after two years. In my almost 50 years behind kits I've never broken a cymbal, in fact I'm still using some of my dad's Zildjian cymbals he bought in the late 40's. Although technique plays a very important part in the longevity of cymbals, it's also how they are mounted and tilted on their stands.

Dennis
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Old 01-22-2010, 10:28 PM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

it depends on how hard you hit and the cymbal as well. i had a zildjian 16" fast crash, and i've broken it 3 times. i have insurance so it doesn't really matter, but yea. i've broken an a custom 18" crash as well. and these were all under a year old. i had bad technique starting out, but now i've improved it and plus i just hit hard which is why it happens.
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Old 01-22-2010, 10:41 PM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

So if it's bad technique, then how should I be hitting cymbals? As far as I know from watching other drummers I have "good" technique.
Quote:
No, it's not normal for cymbals to break, especially only after two years. In my almost 50 years behind kits I've never broken a cymbal, in fact I'm still using some of my dad's Zildjian cymbals he bought in the late 40's. Although technique plays a very important part in the longevity of cymbals, it's also how they are mounted and tilted on their stands.
Could it be the quality of cymbals, PST5's are near the bottom end of the Paiste line. And I'm pretty sure they are mounted correctly, just sleeves and felts, not too tight.
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Old 01-22-2010, 11:02 PM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

Well, Gavin Harrison said he breaks at least a couple of cymbals per tour when asked about this subject. And he doesn't really have bad technique...he plays quite hard live though, so maybe that's the reason. I've broken entry level cymbals when I started, but I used to only have one crash, not a single broken cymbal since I have two crashes and several splashes.


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Old 01-22-2010, 11:10 PM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

Im from the school that says if you are breaking pies, you are doing something wrong.
I am one of those that has never broken a cymbal in almost 40 years. I mount my cymbals almost flat. I strike with glancing blows. I don't use top felts. I play K Custom Hybrid crashes now. I have played many different crashes over the many years.
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Old 01-22-2010, 11:18 PM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

I kinda disagree with the diehard non-cymbal breakers here. I too own old cymbals that have never cracked. I've only ever cracked two cymbals in my lifetime of drumming. One of them was a Sabian HHX Evolution. They are pretty thin and saw a lot of live play.

So 2 out of over a dozen I've owned doesn't really point out bad technique. Metal isn't indestructible. Anything under stress can break, buildings, car parts, bridges, etc...cymbals included.
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Old 01-22-2010, 11:32 PM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

This topic keeps coming up and is always lively!

To my mind, there is no "normal" or "should/shouldn't" regarding this. It just depends on how you like to play. If you like playing like Dave Grohl, expect to replace cymbals and plan for it.

If you're a lighter player, you may never break a cymbal and that's fine; good for you. Most cymbals are designed for sound and playability and have a breaking point. Other cymbals are marketed for heavy hitters, but usually don't play or sound all that great. In the end, all of them have a breaking point.

Gavin Harrison? I'm not surprised at all. Thomas Pridgen I'll bet money he goes through them, and he's a fantastic drummer. Elvin Jones broke cymbals, too, and I doubt anyone's going to launch into a lecture about his poor technique. I believe Bermuda breaks his share while out on tour, as well.

I'll come clean here: I've been playing for 30 years and have probably broken a couple dozen cymbals. The list includes two top hi hats, three rides (two of them Paiste Signatures, and a stubbornly uncrashable Zildjian Medium Ride), and all the rest were crashes - mostly thin or medium thins.

I don't care what any drummer on here, or anywhere else, says about my technique on this. You can dig in your heels all you want and say that cymbals aren't designed to break and only bad technique will cause breakage. Cymbals are designed to be played - that's it. However you like to play and whatever fallout comes from that... it is what it is. I doubt that Zildjian, Sabian, or Paiste minds at all everytime I come looking to buy a new cymbal!

BTW: I'm not interested in vintage cymbals precisely because I'll probably break them eventually and that seems like a shame.
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Old 01-22-2010, 11:42 PM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

I've not broken one cymbal yet in my 3,5 years of drumming (that's really short compared to all your 20+ years of drumming), but I've noticed my 10" Stagg splash is starting to crack on the edge. I've paid 15,- for it, second hand, so that's not to big of a problem. I think mounting the cymbals has everything to do with how fast they break though.
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Old 01-23-2010, 12:27 AM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

When I used to gig 2-3 times a week, I used to crack top hihats and crashes about 2-3 per year. Now that I don't gig, I have not cracked a single cymbal yet.
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Old 01-23-2010, 12:49 AM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strangelove View Post
When I used to gig 2-3 times a week, I used to crack top hihats and crashes about 2-3 per year. Now that I don't gig, I have not cracked a single cymbal yet.
That's about the rate they go for me, too. I guess I should say that I've never broken one just practicing at home, and it's been almost two years since my last one cracked but the band I'm playing with now isn't quite as bombastic as most of the bands before it.

So I guess I should add, too, that beyond technique and mounting and all that, the musical situation one plays in largely dictates how the playing needs to be. A jazz drummers highly refined silky smooth touch will not be appreciated in a surly punk rock band where high-explosive energy levels are the only thing that matters. Patrons of rock clubs want to see the drummer sweat, if not full-on puke, after cracking a pie or two.
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Old 01-23-2010, 01:39 AM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
Im from the school that says if you are breaking pies, you are doing something wrong.
I am one of those that has never broken a cymbal in almost 40 years. I mount my cymbals almost flat. I strike with glancing blows. I don't use top felts. I play K Custom Hybrid crashes now. I have played many different crashes over the many years.
Hi Bobdadruma,
Can I borrow some of your experience? I haven't broken a cymbal yet but there is time. Is there a reason why you don't use top felts? I mount my cymbals at around 15deg towards me. Is that too much, too little?

Ta very much
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Old 01-23-2010, 01:48 AM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

If I may...
Quote:
Originally Posted by DestinationDrumming View Post
Is there a reason why you don't use top felts?
I don't use any top felts, either. I see that most people do (pros and non-pros alike) and have never understood it. What does a top felt protect against? Wingnuts are too high up to be of concern. If anything, top felts inhibit the motion of the cymbal, which might be desirable for a ride or a china, but crashes?
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Old 01-23-2010, 01:58 AM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

Quote:
Originally Posted by DestinationDrumming View Post
Hi Bobdadruma,
Can I borrow some of your experience? I haven't broken a cymbal yet but there is time. Is there a reason why you don't use top felts? I mount my cymbals at around 15deg towards me. Is that too much, too little?

Ta very much
15 degrees isn't that much. 10 to 15 degrees, That is about where I place mine. I stopped using top felts many years ago. I like to let the cymbal rock and swing as I hit it. If I am going to hit it several times in succession, I simply have learned to time my strikes with the swing of the pie. I will interrupt the swing if I have to and keep the cymbal down for a while as I hit it also. I feel that cymbals sound better this way. I like to watch them rock freely after I hit them.
A top felt only chokes them in my opinion. The cymbal will slant a few degrees on its own without a top felt, so why use one.
Top felts were just another thing for me to drop on the floor and search for when I was setting up and breaking down my kit! LOL
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Old 01-23-2010, 02:09 AM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
So I guess I should add, too, that beyond technique and mounting and all that, the musical situation one plays in largely dictates how the playing needs to be. A jazz drummers highly refined silky smooth touch will not be appreciated in a surly punk rock band where high-explosive energy levels are the only thing that matters. Patrons of rock clubs want to see the drummer sweat, if not full-on puke, after cracking a pie or two.
I could not agree more. And when caught up in a live situation, all we as drummers are thinking about is cutting through the music. We don't even think about how abusive we are with our pies. In many rock situations, that means having to project through walls of amplified guitars and keyboards. Whereas, in acoustic jazz, crashing with your stick tips can often suffice. It all depends on what type of music you are playing.

As to those wanting to know proper cymbal mounting and angle procedures, check this out:

http://www.paiste.com/e/support_usag...php?menuid=318
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Old 01-23-2010, 02:24 AM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

Thanks Strangelove, Good link.
Glancing blows, That's the secret! Make the pies spin when you play them. Mine spin like tops as I play. They slowly rotate round and round.
Do you hard hitters know that a cymbal will only produce a certain amount of sound before it distorts and begins to lose volume?
There is a point where a cymbal cannot vibrate any more. Every cymbal has this characteristic. It has a limit to its frequency. It is based on the make up and design of the cymbal.
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Last edited by bobdadruma; 01-23-2010 at 02:50 AM.
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Old 01-23-2010, 02:51 AM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

Glancing blows are a great way to go if you can pull it off. The problem is being consistent with it. It's all too easy to stray from the ideal striking angle if there are quick or busy crash cymbal parts, or if the cymbals are already swinging when hit.

The other thing is aesthetics. I saw Dave Weckl a few weeks back playing with Mike Stern. There were a couple big rock endings where Dave was going for the big wash on his crashes and then - bang! into that last ending smackola. Only, that's not what it looked like. It looked like Dave was a little limp in the wrist and holding too much back when coming down on that final hit. He looked like he was worried about his delicate HHXs. Nothing "rock" about that. I remember thinking, "Come on Dave, you get 'em for free, give us a pile-driving rock ending!"
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Old 01-23-2010, 03:01 AM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
This topic keeps coming up and is always lively!

To my mind, there is no "normal" or "should/shouldn't" regarding this. It just depends on how you like to play. If you like playing like Dave Grohl, expect to replace cymbals and plan for it.

If you're a lighter player, you may never break a cymbal and that's fine; good for you. Most cymbals are designed for sound and playability and have a breaking point. Other cymbals are marketed for heavy hitters, but usually don't play or sound all that great. In the end, all of them have a breaking point.

Gavin Harrison? I'm not surprised at all. Thomas Pridgen I'll bet money he goes through them, and he's a fantastic drummer. Elvin Jones broke cymbals, too, and I doubt anyone's going to launch into a lecture about his poor technique. I believe Bermuda breaks his share while out on tour, as well.

I'll come clean here: I've been playing for 30 years and have probably broken a couple dozen cymbals. The list includes two top hi hats, three rides (two of them Paiste Signatures, and a stubbornly uncrashable Zildjian Medium Ride), and all the rest were crashes - mostly thin or medium thins.

I don't care what any drummer on here, or anywhere else, says about my technique on this. You can dig in your heels all you want and say that cymbals aren't designed to break and only bad technique will cause breakage. Cymbals are designed to be played - that's it. However you like to play and whatever fallout comes from that... it is what it is. I doubt that Zildjian, Sabian, or Paiste minds at all everytime I come looking to buy a new cymbal!

BTW: I'm not interested in vintage cymbals precisely because I'll probably break them eventually and that seems like a shame.
Well said!!!

In his latest book, Neil Peart discusses going though numerous cymbals on tour, and he's studied with the best. But not ever one does a 3 hour show with the intensity Rush does every night.

If you play jazz or light rock, or don't gig much no you may never break a cymbal. If you play hard rock or metal, and/or tour often, well, then it might be a different story even with good technique.

Simply saying technique is not the whole story. Volume of the band, the musical situation, intensity of gig and frequency of playing are all going to be part of the equation.




I
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Old 01-23-2010, 03:18 AM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post

Simply saying technique is not the whole story. Volume of the band, the musical situation, intensity of gig and frequency of playing are all going to be part of the equation.
Thank you!

I also suspect vibration patterns being upset has alot to do with cracks. Not letting a cymbal "vibrate out" before crashing it again probably doesn't help matters, but hey, sometimes accents have to go where accents have to go. Again, it's the music, not the technique, although having a Peart or Bozzio cymbal setup probably would help that situation.
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Old 01-23-2010, 03:42 AM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

Im glad that this discussion didn't turn into a fist to cuff.
That has happened many times before while this subject was being tossed about.

I guess that there will be drummers that crack cymbals along with drummers that don't.
I am glad that I don't break them because at over $300 a pop I couldn't afford it.
It is good to let people know that there are ways to minimize the possibility of breaking cymbals.
Im sure that the drummers that break cymbals from time to time will appreciate the advice that was given.

Perhaps a few pies will be saved or prolonged to become vintage.
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Old 01-23-2010, 03:48 AM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

Oddly enough, besides my cheapo starter cymbals, the only crashes I've ever broken are medium and rock crashes. My medium thins and thins have all survived 20 something years.

I posted this on the last huge breaking cymbals thread. Cymbals are thin metal. Every time they're hit sufficiently hard, they flex and warp for a second and then snap back into shape. However, metal can flex only so many times before it fatigues and breaks. Play around with a paper clip and you'll see what I mean.

And it's not only thin cymbals either. Neil Peart is choking a 16" Paragon crash in this picture - an arguably medium to thick crash - and look at it flex.
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Old 01-23-2010, 03:59 AM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

Alparrott, It is amazing how much cymbals do flex.
Here is a pic of one of my crashes flexing as I struck it.
I wasn't even hitting it hard.
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Old 01-23-2010, 05:35 AM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

At one time when I was new to drumming, I was watching drum solos and saw a china cymbal. I thought it was an upside down crash, so I turned my beat up Pearl CX 300 crash that i bought used upside down... that didn't survive very long... I usually dont count that as breaking a cymbal because I had been drumming for about a week and it was a Pearl cymbal.

Anyway, back on topic, other than that cymbal the only other cymbal I have broken was a Sabian B8 14" thin crash, which really stood no chance against punk drumming.

If you play rock/punk, your probably going to break a lower line cymbal. Once you get pro level cymbals they'll last much longer because 1. They flex more 2. You'll care more about technique because you won't want to replace them
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Old 01-23-2010, 06:09 AM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdadruma View Post
Im glad that this discussion didn't turn into a fist to cuff.
That has happened many times before while this subject was being tossed about.

I guess that there will be drummers that crack cymbals along with drummers that don't.
I am glad that I don't break them because at over $300 a pop I couldn't afford it.
It is good to let people know that there are ways to minimize the possibility of breaking cymbals.
Im sure that the drummers that break cymbals from time to time will appreciate the advice that was given.

Perhaps a few pies will be saved or prolonged to become vintage.
Another way I feel about this is, the less cymbals you break, the more you're able to add to your collection for different tones, sounds and voices instead of replacing what you already have due to cracking. Buying cymbals for me is a very laborious job, one that I don't take lightly. The people at the Five Star shop where I make most of my purchases, just smile and shake their heads when they see me coming through the door with my cymbal bag. I actually lost count on the number of cymbals I own, I know it's over fifty. Most of my crash cymbals I buy are in one inch intervals to one another, this makes double crashing a breeze with basically the same musical blend or tones in case I do need the extra volume instead of stressing just one. I do use felts, top and bottom along with good sleeves to protect the mounting hole of the cymbals. Not often, but once in a while I might strike some of my cymbals from underneath, maybe coming off a floor tom roll or fill, so yea, I use wing nuts on my mounts. I usually keep about a half inch of air between the top of my cymbals and the top felt to let them breathe. Glancing blows is really the ticket for a more extended life for you cymbals. If you're not taught that way from the beginning, sometimes crashing down through is a very difficult habit to break.

Just things I thought I would add, since I didn't realise this topic would get as far as it did.

Dennis
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Old 01-23-2010, 06:39 AM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

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Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
If I may...I don't use any top felts, either. I see that most people do (pros and non-pros alike) and have never understood it. What does a top felt protect against?
It protects the cymbal from swinging too freely and putting sudden torque on the bell hole. If your cymbal swings freely and a lot, then your cymbal can/will develop bell hole cracks.
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Old 01-23-2010, 08:01 AM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

Thanks for all the answers, I am especially interested in the glancing blows technique that some of you mentioned. Now that I think about it I always hit my cymbals head on, and actually work to get them to not spin when I hit them.

I was watching a video of Josh Freese and saw that he hits his cymbals with a lot of stick, and comes almost straight down when striking. I hit on top of my cymbals but don't really come straight down, and use mostly the tip when striking. It would make sense that using more stick when striking would help the cymbal because there is more area to distribute the stress produced from the hit?

As for the top felts discussion, on crashes I agree they are really not needed. But I do use them to choke my ride and china, and prevent swinging.
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Old 01-23-2010, 08:20 AM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzDerT1FgkU

This video shows Lars Ulrich in slow motion. Now, he used Z Custom Zildjians (Manhole Covers) at the time. Look at that flex!
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Old 01-23-2010, 03:58 PM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSCRAPRE View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzDerT1FgkU

This video shows Lars Ulrich in slow motion. Now, he used Z Custom Zildjians (Manhole Covers) at the time. Look at that flex!
Lars does not appear to be hitting with great force in the vid. He is playing moderate.
Can you imagine what happens when a full force blow is struck head on!
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Old 01-24-2010, 11:31 PM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

Here's a great vid too see how cymbals vibrate when they're struck:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8Gxu...eature=related (The interesting part starts at 4:10.)

After seeing that vid, I'm definitely not surprised that cymbals break. Personally I've only cracked one medium cymbal before but that was within a year, so it was considered a production failure, so I could get a new one for free :D.

Alparrott mentioned that he has only broken his medium cymbals so far instead of his thin ones, but prehaps that's logical. It sounds pretty acceptable that thin cymbals have more flexibility so their breaking point is higher, right? I'm just guessing at this though.

@ TNA,
Glancing blow are blows that are struck in the direction away from the bell, so you're hitting it sideways basically. So spinning cymbals are a sign of hitting them like that. I wouldn't bother trying to stop them spinning, you won't succeed anyway :P
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Old 01-27-2010, 07:24 AM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

I think with cymbal breakage there is some randomness,less expensive b 8 alloy pies are worked alot rougher, more pounds per sq inch and faster hammering,I have played some stiff cast cymbals,but the budget b 8 's are always a lot stiffer feeling to me,even the thins,maybe that is why they crack more.I have heard that with cast cymbals each new batch reacts and works differently,so I think some just are more predisposed to cracking than others.I have seen drummers that hit lighter than I do and glance,but break cymbals,I have seen drummers that play harder than I do that say they have never broken one.I have only broken 1,it was a Z new beat top hat,I have played sabian, bos, zil saluda and ufip new and used.I have heard some people say the only cymbals they have broken are paiste's though.I have played one cymbal out,zil 20 thin crash I bought new in 1977,in 2004 it started loosing response,then high end,now it serves time as a pretty decent ride cymbal on my 12 year old neices kit. I think we are all different as drummers because of style ,approach and physicality,and I think some of us are just going to break more cymbals even if we have good technique.and set them up properly.,
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  #32  
Old 01-28-2010, 12:48 AM
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Strangelove Strangelove is offline
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

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Originally Posted by eamesuser View Post
I think with cymbal breakage there is some randomness,less expensive b 8 alloy pies are worked alot rougher, more pounds per sq inch and faster hammering,I have played some stiff cast cymbals,but the budget b 8 's are always a lot stiffer feeling to me,even the thins,maybe that is why they crack more.I have heard that with cast cymbals each new batch reacts and works differently,so I think some just are more predisposed to cracking than others.
It's not the alloy. In my career, I have broken nothing but B20 pies, but I am not going to assume that it was because B20 is more brittle than B8 as an alloy (which it actually is, but that does not mean it is more prone to breakage). Besides, all cymbals are cast, nothing is stamped like popular urban myths would like us to believe. The B8's are just cast in sheets, instead of individually.

I personally believe it has more to do with the fact that cymbals are all heat tempered, and vary in gauge because oif all the hammering and lathing. That unevenness creates weak spots that fail with the more extreme (ab)use we put upon them.
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Old 02-09-2010, 03:02 AM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

I was recently reading a book that was discussing Samurai technique. That the western idea of "follow though" was not utilized. A Katana is capable of slicing down though a person's skull but if the swordsman thinks in terms of striking though the top of the skull and following though into the body of the victim, the sword can get stuck. So the Samurai think in terms of a target point and a quick return. This allows them to move on to the next thing they have to do with the sword.

I think there are some parallels in drumming. Most folks are familiar with pulling the stick back off the drum head to get good tone. I think the folks who don't break cymbals have found that target point that creates the desired crash and then they get the stick out of there instead of smashing though that point. Like letting the drumhead ring, they can get volume without as much effort because of letting the cymbal ring. And as some others have posted, anything beyond that isn't going to get more volume. More cymbal is needed.
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Old 02-09-2010, 03:43 AM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

That is a very good analogy Aeolian. One should always be moving towards the next target. As soon as the stick touches the pie, The deal is done, its all over, the cymbal does the rest on its own. Following through won't help!
I release my grip and I let the stick bounce as soon as I sense contact and Im on to the next strike wherever that may be.
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Old 02-09-2010, 03:55 AM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

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Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
BTW: I'm not interested in vintage cymbals precisely because I'll probably break them eventually and that seems like a shame.
LOL that's a good one. +1
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Old 02-09-2010, 04:05 AM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

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The other thing is aesthetics. I saw Dave Weckl a few weeks back playing with Mike Stern. There were a couple big rock endings where Dave was going for the big wash on his crashes and then - bang! into that last ending smackola. Only, that's not what it looked like. It looked like Dave was a little limp in the wrist and holding too much back when coming down on that final hit. He looked like he was worried about his delicate HHXs. Nothing "rock" about that. I remember thinking, "Come on Dave, you get 'em for free, give us a pile-driving rock ending!"
I get it, but how did it sound? I bet it sounded just as good a a Mike Tyson smack would have.
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Old 02-09-2010, 04:12 AM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

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Originally Posted by Fox622003 View Post
Well, Gavin Harrison said he breaks at least a couple of cymbals per tour when asked about this subject. And he doesn't really have bad technique...he plays quite hard live though, so maybe that's the reason. I've broken entry level cymbals when I started, but I used to only have one crash, not a single broken cymbal since I have two crashes and several splashes.
His technique sounds (and looks) good, but it's pretty unforgiving. He gets pretty bad blisters, he breaks a lot of sticks, his heads need replacing after a couple of shows and he breaks cymbals. All in all, I think teachers like Freddy Gruber and Dom Famularo would have a lot to work on with him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strangelove
It's not the alloy. In my career, I have broken nothing but B20 pies, but I am not going to assume that it was because B20 is more brittle than B8 as an alloy (which it actually is, but that does not mean it is more prone to breakage). Besides, all cymbals are cast, nothing is stamped like popular urban myths would like us to believe. The B8's are just cast in sheets, instead of individually.
How much experience have you had with entry-level B8 cymbals? eamesuser is not the only one who thinks they are stiffer than higher level cymbals, and not because of the alloy (link). That stiffness could be a factor in them breaking easier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNA
I was watching a video of Josh Freese and saw that he hits his cymbals with a lot of stick, and comes almost straight down when striking. I hit on top of my cymbals but don't really come straight down, and use mostly the tip when striking. It would make sense that using more stick when striking would help the cymbal because there is more area to distribute the stress produced from the hit?
That's a very bad idea. Josh Freese obviously doesn't care how many cymbal he breaks.
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Old 02-09-2010, 04:35 AM
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

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Originally Posted by muckypops View Post
I get it, but how did it sound? I bet it sounded just as good a a Mike Tyson smack would have.
Of course it did, it's DAVE! I just wish I'd've closed my eyes first - then I could've imagined pots blowing up on both sides of the stage, a few stick twirls, and shards of cymbal flying off in all directions!
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Old 02-09-2010, 05:51 AM
Adam8 Adam8 is offline
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

Here's my broken cymbal inventory: 2 18" Z Custom Medium crashes, 2 19" A Custom Projection crashes, 2 20" A Medium crashes, 18" A Crash Ride, 18" A Medium crash, 20" Paragon Crash, 20" Oriental Classic China, 8" A splash, 10" A splash - I've never broken any hats or rides.
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Old 02-09-2010, 06:08 AM
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Strangelove Strangelove is offline
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Default Re: Breaking Cymbals

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Originally Posted by Fiery View Post
How much experience have you had with entry-level B8 cymbals? eamesuser is not the only one who thinks they are stiffer than higher level cymbals, and not because of the alloy (link). That stiffness could be a factor in them breaking easier.

Well, if it is not the alloy, then we both agree and that was my original point. I tried to search that thread you linked for discussion of B8 versus B20 and the only thing I saw was about inverting cymbals. Did I miss it? In everything I have read, and my understanding of metals, too, is that copper is softer than tin. I would assume then, that B8 is softer than B20 because of alloy makeup alone. I also think that's the point he's making in inverting cymbals. If automated hammering, shaping, or lathing techniques cause more brittleness, then that point should be brought up, but it should not be pinpointed on alloys as such.
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