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  #1  
Old 01-24-2010, 05:26 AM
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Default What do you make of this quote?

"We live in an age of music for people who don't like music. The record industry discovered some time ago that there aren't that many people who actually like music. For a lot of people, music's annoying, or at the very least they don't need it. They discovered if they could sell music to a lot of those people, they could sell a lot more records."

T Bone Burnett
IMO there could be a germ of truth in this cynical comment.

But music has always been an intrinsic part of human life and society. What happened? Have people found something else that fulfills music's previous transcendent function in our lives? Has society become anti-transcendence? Something else?
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Old 01-24-2010, 05:45 AM
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Default Re: What do you make of this quote?

Or it might be that We have turned ourselves, into a savage consumer society. My thoughts...leaving aside the essence of life.
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Old 01-24-2010, 06:10 AM
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Default Re: What do you make of this quote?

I think people have always liked music since there are artifacts dating way back. Todays music I feel is not as sophisticated as it once was. Hence classical music written for 40 instruments. But to say people don't like music and yet,"if they could sell music to a lot of those people, they could sell a lot more records," to me makes no sense. If they don't like it why do they buy it?
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Old 01-24-2010, 06:19 AM
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Default Re: What do you make of this quote?

I think it's maybe not so much that people "don't like music" but rather people "don't know what they like"... and they'll buy it anyway...
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Old 01-24-2010, 06:35 AM
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Default Re: What do you make of this quote?

TiTs........................................
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Old 01-24-2010, 06:39 AM
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Default Re: What do you make of this quote?

My opinion is that T Bone Burnett is right on the money. Whatever it is that people like about CDs or bands or songs or live performances, it sure as hell isn't the music.

BUT. I'm not at all sure that it hasn't always been that way.
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Old 01-24-2010, 07:03 AM
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Default Re: What do you make of this quote?

Quote:
Originally Posted by con struct View Post
My opinion is that T Bone Burnett is right on the money. Whatever it is that people like about CDs or bands or songs or live performances, it sure as hell isn't the music.

BUT. I'm not at all sure that it hasn't always been that way.
So why do they buy it? A fashion accessory? Status symbol? An identity marker? I don't think there's much doubt that music has become just one more positional goods, along with houses, cars, clothes, plasma TVs etc. It happens to most other types of consumer goods (as per Ian's comment) so why wouldn't music be commodified?

Do you want to seem sophisticated at your dinner parties? How about some smooth MOR jazz/funk? Do you want to seem cool with your friends? Rap or metal, depending on the scene. Up-to-date? The latest Big Thing. Serious and sophisticated? One of the classical masters should do the trick.

But then again, why not? Music isn't necessarily sacred, although it can be. Perhaps commodification is not the worst thing and can lead to genuine appreciation when a person suddenly stops hearing the musical wallpaper and actually listens to it? Just thinking aloud ...

One thing I do know is that for a very long time musicians have been treated as lowly serfs unworthy of respect by venue owners - unless they make it big, in which case they become cartoonised and that two-dimensional image idolised.


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Old 01-24-2010, 08:26 AM
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Default Re: What do you make of this quote?

People still like music. They just may not want to pay for it.
I worked in record/CD/DVD/video stores for over 10 years. Bring an infant into a record shop, and you tend to have a happy/dancing/singing baby in a short time.
But this ain't the "summer of love" anymore. Used to be, a six pack of beer, a good steak, and the newest "music score of the week", was what many people did with some of that hard earned paycheck. There wasn't that much competition for the entertainment dollar.
Enter the video game. Atari, Xbox, PlayStation. All competition for that "entertainment" dollar. Gotta have a Wii. Everyone needs a Guitar Hero too. Better upgrade to HD. Blue Ray. CRT television, gotta have LED flatscreen at least, but to be cool you really need plasma.
They've sold over 220 million iPods, but that don't mean anyone's buying music.
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:00 AM
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Default Re: What do you make of this quote?

Well now days the big concerts are full of vocal backing tracks, lip syncing, and elaborate pyrotechnical and lighting displays. Take a band like motley crue who i happen to love. I've seen them 5 times since 2005 and to be honest with you each time it gets worse and worse. It's just not about the music anymore with them. Look at their stage show, the prerecorded background vocals, and Tommy Lee's "Huge massive drum kit" that's triggered and processed to death. They are all obviously in it for the money IMO. They are just one example i can think of off the top of my head.
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:26 AM
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Default Re: What do you make of this quote?

Quote:
Originally Posted by harryconway View Post
People still like music. They just may not want to pay for it.
There wasn't that much competition for the entertainment dollar.
Enter the video game. Atari, Xbox, PlayStation. All competition for that "entertainment" dollar. Gotta have a Wii. Everyone needs a Guitar Hero too. Better upgrade to HD. Blue Ray. CRT television, gotta have LED flatscreen at least, but to be cool you really need plasma.
They've sold over 220 million iPods, but that don't mean anyone's buying music.
I think that says alot about the way people act these days.. Some need the best and newest, some cant live without video games or computers, others just want to show people what they have and how nice it is. They may have been brought up on a different value system, and its kind of a shame. I happen to RELY on music every day just to get through the day, and always appreciate having that as an option. Music can easily change one's life, but if all you know is video games and FM radio... you can so easily miss out on what was right there all along. I ramble here...

Commercial radio doesnt help much either. How much great music do you know of that will never be played on the big FM stations? Even satellite radio has gotten worse(imo) and thats why I cancelled it.

Alot of us here, and I assume every other musician has been lucky enough to not be one of those people that "doesnt like music"... I know I could never live without it! So I ve always tried to "push" or "recommend" lesser known acts to friends or family... or whoever will listen. If they like it, good- I ll make a cd of different stuff and hope they buy more. If not- oh well, someone else will.
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Old 01-24-2010, 12:28 PM
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Default Re: What do you make of this quote?

[quote=Pollyanna;656275][INDENTThey discovered if they could sell music to a lot of those people, they could sell a lot more records."

I laughed when I read this sentence by itself. It seems almost comical when you get to what it really IS saying. I mean, its the most basic math... that part was funny.

But when you think about "what" they will do to make the people that dont like music-simply "start" liking music, and more, start "paying" for it...thats not really too funny.

Passing trends have always effected music and music sales.For example- A certain fad goes over a certain group of people(lets saaaayy- Boy bands and teenage girls). So the powers that be see whats happening and obviously they want to capitalize on it however they can. They did, and alot of people made a TON of money(thats what they were looking for, right?). But after all the overkill and carbon copies of boy bands you had a saturation effect,leading to a self destruction of that whole scene(maybe even contributing to having people that dont like music)... after all, a 13 yr old kid will be 18 soon enough and then what?

On the other hand, you have different genres of music that can either stick or fall apart. Rock, soul, jazz, funk, blues, country, hip hop, electronica, etc,etc.... these are the obvious ones that have been tweaked and blended to make newer genres, with those being altered even more. Listeners can easily lose interest when they dont really know what they like and cant put it into a category. I see some "genres" today that make absolutely no sense and could merely be just a word or two coined by some P.R. guy looking to claim that their new band has created a "whole new style of music!" Ok..but chances are its been done before.

I recently heard Linkin Park stating that their new album is so different its actually "a new genre of music", and I cant wait to hear this new category added to the list of about 600.
"scream-core? post-emo? rap-hop?

No wonder some people dont like music, much less pay for it! They probably gave up when they walked into a store, checked the rock section for Kid Rock and never found him- not knowing its categorized in the "rap-rock with a southern twang to it" section...Or whenever they turn on the radio and hear the same songs repeated on 4 hour cycles!!! That right there can make music annoying.. LOL but I must digress...

I should say, that we as musicians are the 'makers of music' and while we all have our own personal tastes, we just enjoy listening to whats there and can take something from it in a personal way then reflect it onto others, hoping they get something from it also.. It can be inspiration, sadness, anger, bliss, or motivation, but if its lost on someone completely, they may have to see it from another angle. An angle that can make no sense to us...

Either way I have trouble believeing that "people dont like music".... If they did, I d feel bad but I ll still try to find a way to get to em....(I lost track of the original post again, sorry)...
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Old 01-24-2010, 02:29 PM
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Default Re: What do you make of this quote?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
[indent]"We live in an age of music for people who don't like music. The record industry discovered some time ago that there aren't that many people who actually like music. For a lot of people, music's annoying, or at the very least they don't need it. They discovered if they could sell music to a lot of those people, they could sell a lot more records."
I dont think I've ever met anyone that doesn't like music. I have met people that don't particularly understand it but listen, smile and move to it..sometimes not so well. And I have met people that do get it, and are very picky to the point of snobbish. And I have met people that are somewhere in the vast in between.
In 55 years I honestly don't remember meeting anyone that does not like music. I suppose I just didn't know maybe...
Music is what separates us from the critters...oh and using tools...and recreational sex..
OK for the MOST part anyway.
All the modern marketing and trends and other related CRAP, I DO find annoying. I'm a throwback hunter gatherer low brow simple man that likes to make loud noises. And I have no problem with that. Thinking too much hurts my brain, but I'm stuck here. So I bang the drums, get in the woods, get on the water...whatever it takes.
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Old 01-24-2010, 03:16 PM
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Default Re: What do you make of this quote?

Most muso's still don't get what's happened in recent years. Put simply, the live gig used to be primarily a marketing tool to sell recordings, now it's the other way around. Very very few artists make money from recordings now, the live tour is the money spinner.
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Old 01-24-2010, 03:52 PM
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Default Re: What do you make of this quote?

Well I now know after Googling his name who T Bone is but I never heard of him prior to this thread. That may have something to do with his comment, possibly he did not get a piece of the Nickelback/Staind/lincoln park big money that alot of people consider crap music.


I doubt humans have ever agreed on what music they like. Some people just like music to have a good time , dance and chat with friends, others like to feel some other emotion like sadness, blues, or anger some like the lyrics more, some like the musicianship more. Who is to say who is right and who is wrong?

Hell I like all different kinds of music for different reasons it just depends on my mood. I own CD's from Zeppelin, and the Beatles, to The Bee gee's, Black label society, Commodores, Godsmack, and yes Nickelback too. So what?

Music will evolve and not everyone will like it, I agree the aught's (00's) have been rough but I am not sure if it's because of my age or it is just really that bad. I like to think it's my age (42).


Maybe Grunge was the last great recognizable Genre, Maybe emo or screamo will evolve into something huge, hell maybe Jazz will evolve into something that rivals rock and roll and hip hop as far as sales and popularity goes who knows, just be glad we have the great music that has already been created (whatever that is to you) and enjoy it.
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Old 01-24-2010, 06:25 PM
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Default Re: What do you make of this quote?

That quote was just one mans opinion, a man who sounded like he was in a cynical mood when he stated it. I don't give it much creedence.
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Old 01-24-2010, 06:27 PM
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Default Re: What do you make of this quote?

Nah nah this guys all wrong. People love music, humans love music, music is a part of human life, its inescapable. It's just that the role of music has changed drastically. Music is less of an art statement now as it is a personality one, meaning people don't like music for what it is, they like it for what the performers make it. You see lady Gaga go crazy on stage and people love it. Music doesn't have any substance anymore, though performances do. All that dancing, lighting, hot women, hot men, it didn't use to be like that. All people care about now is a song to which you can dance, who cares if they're using the same 3 or 4 chords and whatnot; it generates revenue because people want to go see the concerts, because after all, performances is what makes the money now.

All of this is an affect of how people aren't buying CDs anymore, which is a result of the ridiculous amounts of technology there is that allows people to listen to music without spending money. Musicians can't sell themselves based off of the fact that they play great music, they need a great act.

At least that's what I think.
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Old 01-24-2010, 07:41 PM
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Default Re: What do you make of this quote?

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Originally Posted by TheGroceryman View Post
Nah nah this guys all wrong. People love music, humans love music, music is a part of human life, its inescapable. It's just that the role of music has changed drastically. Music is less of an art statement now as it is a personality one, meaning people don't like music for what it is, they like it for what the performers make it. You see lady Gaga go crazy on stage and people love it. Music doesn't have any substance anymore, though performances do. All that dancing, lighting, hot women, hot men, it didn't use to be like that. All people care about now is a song to which you can dance, who cares if they're using the same 3 or 4 chords and whatnot; it generates revenue because people want to go see the concerts, because after all, performances is what makes the money now.

All of this is an affect of how people aren't buying CDs anymore, which is a result of the ridiculous amounts of technology there is that allows people to listen to music without spending money. Musicians can't sell themselves based off of the fact that they play great music, they need a great act.

At least that's what I think.
And you think very clearly IMO

Here is another quote I find provokative:
Consumers have musical choice? What musical choice? In or society we choose only from what we are given to choose from, and that choice is determined by 5 major media corporations who control the exposure outlets that consumers depend on for their entertainment.
Christopher Knab, FourFront Media and Music

Last edited by Pollyanna; 01-24-2010 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 01-24-2010, 08:46 PM
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Default Re: What do you make of this quote?

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
That quote was just one mans opinion, a man who sounded like he was in a cynical mood when he stated it. I don't give it much creedence.
I was going to say that as well, although I know that some musicians/non-musicians will find a truth in there that fits their situation.

Musicians saying that labels (or radio) actually control what people like, is giving those entities a lot of credit, and is an argument often used by 'artists' to rationalize a failed career. No, I'm not referring to T-Bone, who's done just fine in spite of most commercial outlets not catering to him. But it's no surprise that the musicians who deride radio and labels, are the ones who can't get airplay or record deals (or whose deal went sour.)

If T-Bone is suggesting that non-musicians genuinely don't know what they like - or they dislike music altogether - that says a lot more about people than labels or radio.

Bermuda
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Old 01-24-2010, 08:54 PM
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Default Re: What do you make of this quote?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
Here is another quote I find provokative:
Consumers have musical choice? What musical choice? In or society we choose only from what we are given to choose from, and that choice is determined by 5 major media corporations who control the exposure outlets that consumers depend on for their entertainment.
Christopher Knab, FourFront Media and Music
As I recall, FourFront is not one of those major media corporations, and I haven't heard of them. I wonder what choices they offer the public?

So I Googled them, and it's no choices. Christopher Knab is a consultant trying to sell his services/books to people trying to deal with 'the business', by fostering a hostility towards the powers that be.

I'm not saying the labels are perfect, or that some hostility might not be well-deserved, but I'm also cautious about opinions from anyone with an agenda.

Bermuda
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Old 01-25-2010, 01:29 AM
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Default Re: What do you make of this quote?

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As I recall, FourFront is not one of those major media corporations, and I haven't heard of them. I wonder what choices they offer the public?

So I Googled them, and it's no choices. Christopher Knab is a consultant trying to sell his services/books to people trying to deal with 'the business', by fostering a hostility towards the powers that be.

I'm not saying the labels are perfect, or that some hostility might not be well-deserved, but I'm also cautious about opinions from anyone with an agenda.

Bermuda
Fair point but, as with all communications media there's a feedback loop. The print media always claims (suriously) they are not shaping opinion but only reflecting it and I think there's the same thing going on in the music biz. I don't see either situation as sinister because that's just how things work.

More than anything, I am disturbed by my spelling of "provocative"!
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Old 01-25-2010, 02:11 AM
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Default Re: What do you make of this quote?

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The print media always claims (suriously) they are not shaping opinion but only reflecting it and I think there's the same thing going on in the music biz...
More than anything, I am disturbed by my spelling of "provocative"!
No worse than your spelling of seriously!

The media only shapes opinions for those not strong enough to have their own. Sure they offer perspectives, often biased, but people need to assess all the information they can get and make their own minds up. Same goes for music and labels/radio. People are free to explore whatever music they want, and it's never been easier (or less-expensive) than in the Internet age. If they fail to do that, it's their fault, not the music industry's.

Hmm, that does sort of bring it around to T-Bone's statement after all...

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Old 01-25-2010, 03:03 AM
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Default Re: What do you make of this quote?

Music is an appliance, like a microwave oven. It's basically just noise that people find pleasing to have going on in the background of their lives, sort of like a soundtrack.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that. That's what it is, it's what people want and like and relate to. How that affects musicians is something else altogether.

I read a review of Lady Gaga's recent run of shows in the New York Times and she definitely hires musicians to play the music that accompanies her show.

But I have a real problem with the idea that anyone who bought tickets to see Lady Gaga perform on stage did so because of the music those musicians were playing.
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Old 01-25-2010, 03:25 AM
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Default Re: What do you make of this quote?

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No worse than your spelling of seriously!
lol - a rather SPURIOUS typo ... that's why I've only ever had one secretarial job. Seriously :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
The media only shapes opinions for those not strong enough to have their own. Sure they offer perspectives, often biased, but people need to assess all the information they can get and make their own minds up. Same goes for music and labels/radio. People are free to explore whatever music they want, and it's never been easier (or less-expensive) than in the Internet age. If they fail to do that, it's their fault, not the music industry's.
I'm hearing you. In other words, they're bringing across the luke warms - the swinging voters. And they would be the fastest-growing segment of the musical marketplace since are increasingly time poor and don't have the time to spend hours with their heads buried between the speakers, emotions riding every nuance. More's the pity.

Guess I'm just an old fogey pining for the glory days ... and even getting too senile to type properly lol

Last edited by Pollyanna; 01-25-2010 at 03:26 AM. Reason: More typos, as usual
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Old 01-25-2010, 03:32 AM
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Default Re: What do you make of this quote?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pollyanna View Post
And you think very clearly IMO

Here is another quote I find provokative:
Consumers have musical choice? What musical choice? In or society we choose only from what we are given to choose from, and that choice is determined by 5 major media corporations who control the exposure outlets that consumers depend on for their entertainment.
Christopher Knab, FourFront Media and Music
I guess Knab has never heard of independent labels? If you look hard enough, you will find something good. The "interweb" is flooded with all sorts of information, good and bad. DIY has always been popular prior to the internet and has exploded as technology has made making music cheaper and more accessible. Yes, there is loads of crap out there, but there are also loads of gems waiting to be discovered.

Music is a universal human language. I doubt it is every going to go away. And if people don't like the choices they are given, they will do something about it. As the old saying goes, if you want something done, do it yourself! Or something like that!

I think my prejudice of 21st century music may be based on my age. However, I still purchase loads music, mainly in vinyl format and sometimes CDs. I do not subscribe to the notion that music should be free for everyone to download. I have had arguments with a couple of friends who think all music should be free. That being said, I do frequent blogs to download stuff that is out of print or impossible to find. Plus, nothing beats the live experience. You can never download that.
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Old 02-05-2010, 03:40 PM
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Default Re: What do you make of this quote?

There are some fantastic things going on all around the globe . WOMAD among many others bring the sharing musical world closer together , it is expanding rapidly way beyond belief . We open our hearts and minds , however , within the industry there appears to be a few who seem to be a sheep short in the top paddock. Maybe they shall find them some sunny day soon .
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  #26  
Old 02-08-2010, 11:16 AM
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Default Re: What do you make of this quote?

I was about to quote almost every post because I ve read alot of interesting responses. I love everyones thoughts here... I think "we" can all agree that music is a common ground and that when some guy says " People dont like music" its just a statement from someone who has had an issue with his experiences and is looking to place the blame on anyone other than himself.

Obviously the entire world loves and and has loved music in one way or another... Fads dont last, but evolve.. Bla bla bla(another ramble deleted)... But I know that I have been somewhat biased towards what I like and what I listen to...

My job right now is being a chauffuer(?) for a very nice guy who listens to nothing but hip hop or rap or R n B.... He pays me so I let him pick the music, and thats fine. I ve heard the new Lil Wayne CD about 20 times now and I hear nothing but the music played in the background, and while I hate it I love hearing something new that I would never have heard if he had not played it...

So the one day I had to use my own car to drive my friend Kahhar to pick up his daughter in Philly I happened to have Incubus playing, it was MY vehicle so I played MY tunes LOL... I had the one song from "Morning View" playing... the one with the Asian accents and sitars(Aquaeus Transmission?) and when he heard it, he asked me...."Who is this, this is the @#$%!!!"
I said its Incubus... he said "Damn I never heard of them!".... I offered to make a cd of mixed tunes from all the Incubus albums... He is now a fan of Incubus and I have listened to and learned a few songs from Lil Wayne....Very unexpected but appreciated nonetheless.

Its crazy how you can find something that really speaks to you but has been hidden because of a lack of exposure, whether its by choice or chance, its there and waiting to be heard by anyone that will listen... If there s someone out there that hates music, they just arent listening... Sorry to them, cus' they re missin out...as I have recently learned.
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