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  #1  
Old 01-14-2010, 03:57 AM
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Default Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

I find his rythms very weak, and do not enjoy his performances, anyone else?
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Old 01-14-2010, 04:06 AM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

ditto.
I'd like to play/destroy with overzelous enthusiasm, his kit though.
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Old 01-14-2010, 04:15 AM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

Terry is one of my technical heroes, but I must admit preferring him in a band situation... Missing Persons was my favorite of his. I'm a big fan of Zappa from all eras, and I like some of Terry's work with him, but so much of Zappa's material was purely self-indulgent musician's music, and not really enjoyable to me.

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Old 01-14-2010, 05:47 AM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

Oh, yeah.
I feel that no one can doubt the man's technical expertise. I'm a "Raw Emotion" sort of guy and tend to find his type to be kinda boring. His skills are great but, i'd just like to see a fun groove once in a while, which I am sure with his level of ability, he could provide. Granted I'm no expert on his work.

That all sounded so much more cohesive in my head.
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Old 01-14-2010, 06:20 AM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

I have followed Terry's musical career since he was with Zappa. I think his best work was on Zappa's Zoot Alures. Solid drumming rather than flamboyant and technical showmanship.

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Old 01-14-2010, 06:27 AM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

He's a pro drummer and he married a Playboy bunny. If you're still hauling your own gear I suggest you need more practice and less opinions.
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Old 01-14-2010, 07:00 AM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

I saw Terry playing in 1975 on Uncle Frank's Bongo Fury tour. What did I think of it? The next day I bought Bongo Fury. Lots of amazing hero fills and I really liked to hear a big display of drumming testosterone back then.

He's a superb drummer but there's no law that says anyone has to enjoy his style. There's someone for everyone!
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Old 01-14-2010, 08:17 AM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

I think he was brilliant on all the Missing Persons stuff. I listened to those albums to death! A lot of really straight forward stuff that just rocked, but also some pretty over the top brilliant drumming, too. Especially US Drag. Amazing.

He also played on Jeff Beck's Guitar Shop, which I also listened to constantly, and saw them on tour in Yokohama, Japan. That was the first time I saw him and man, was I floored! He was hitting like Dave Grohl or Frankie Banali - pure power and authority with just stunning drum parts. He owned that arena. That performance will live with me forever and cemented in me the absolute need to combine the power with the cool.

I've heard his recent work and seen some vids of his mammoth monstrosity of a kit and it just leaves me cold. I'd rather not follow his career too closely now because I don't want to see anything that might further taint my memories of his greatness.
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Old 01-14-2010, 09:09 AM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

For crying out loud, the guy's had a 35+ year drumming career. Is it the stuff he did with Frank Zappa, what you "find weak"? Or his Missing Persons work? The UK - Danger Money album, perhaps. Or his work with Jeff Beck? Maybe the two albums he did with Tony Levin and Steve Stevens. The guy's pretty much done it all. Covered all the bases. Granted, his newest stuff.......but he paid his dues and now he gets to do what he wants to do, which pretty much looks like he answers to no one, but himself, now.
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He's a pro drummer and he married a Playboy bunny. If you're still hauling your own gear I suggest you need more practice and less opinions.
Good one.
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Old 01-14-2010, 09:38 AM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

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Originally Posted by Monica McCoy View Post
He's a pro drummer and he married a Playboy bunny. If you're still hauling your own gear I suggest you need more practice and less opinions.
So unless I'm at the same level as someone (however you calculate that), I can't have an opinion about them?

He didn't say that Terry was a bad drummer (which I believe everyone here would agree he most definitely isn't), just that he personally didn't like his playing.

Personally, I enjoy some of his work with various bands (my favourite album of his is probably Steve Vai's "Sex & Religion"), but his solo stuff is pretty uninteresting to me. Technically impressive and original, yes, but not something I find enjoyable to listen to.

Last edited by Naigewron; 01-14-2010 at 12:45 PM.
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  #11  
Old 01-14-2010, 11:52 AM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

I liked his work with Zappa, missing persons and the solo's. What I didn't like is that he didnt invite Vinnie C to the drumchannel "Best zappa drummers-episode". Maybe it has to do with the whole zappa-audition thingy.
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  #12  
Old 01-14-2010, 12:35 PM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

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Originally Posted by ANIMALBEATS View Post
I find his rythms very weak, and do not enjoy his performances, anyone else?
He's a good drummer, that's for sure.... but no, I don't enjoy his particular style.
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  #13  
Old 01-14-2010, 02:08 PM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

I like Bozzio. His more orchestrated work and monster kit pieces are less appealing to me but his playing in a band context is really good.

In the late 80's, he was out on the road with Jeff Beck. I saw him in concert on a tour where one night Beck opened for Stevie Ray Vaughn and then the next night SRV opened for Beck.

I had never heard of Terry Bozzio then. He was wild and crazy looking. He had numerous earrings, piercings and a wacked out Missing Persons style hair do.

He had chains connecting his nose ring to his earring to his nipple ring, and more than one. He played with this amazing reckless abandon and this metal was jingling and flying all over the place.

His drumming rocked and it was like he was channeling Jeff Beck's thoughts. I was a fan from then on.

Looking back it was so out of character to his look and playing now.

Bozzio is certainly not everyone's cup of tea. AnimalBeats, you might like his post Zappa stuff.
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Old 01-14-2010, 04:24 PM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

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He's a pro drummer and he married a Playboy bunny. If you're still hauling your own gear I suggest you need more practice and less opinions.
I think that is slightly unfair because you don't have to be a highly sucessful drummer to have an opinion about a drummer or his playing style. Yes, obviously having a technical understanding of the drums might help you appreciate what he's doing a bit more but i still don't think that is going to make someone like what he's actually playing from an emotional point of view.
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Old 01-14-2010, 07:04 PM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

well, i have to hold my hands up and say i've never heard any of his in band playing. But his solos i cant stand. If you have any tracks you think might change my mind please suggest them.
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Old 01-14-2010, 08:52 PM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

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Originally Posted by ANIMALBEATS View Post
I find his rythms very weak, and do not enjoy his performances, anyone else?
Please be more specific. What do you not like about his rythms? What do you think of his timing (particularly live)?

I'm not a fan of his, but the only drummers I can say that I don't really like are the wallflower 2/4 guys that just get alot of notoriety because they play for AC/DC, the Rolling Stones, etc. Terry has worked harder than most drummers at his craft.
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Old 01-14-2010, 10:00 PM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

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Originally Posted by Strangelove View Post
Please be more specific. What do you not like about his rythms? What do you think of his timing (particularly live)?

I'm not a fan of his, but the only drummers I can say that I don't really like are the wallflower 2/4 guys that just get alot of notoriety because they play for AC/DC, the Rolling Stones, etc. Terry has worked harder than most drummers at his craft.
In my mind Terry Bozzio is one of those tremendously talented players who has casted himself so deeply into a drumming niche that it has actually worked against him professionally. Zappa's band was perfect for Terry, but very few situations have been so perfect since. I thought it was interesting to see him play with Fantomas, but there really wasn't a great more that he could add to Fantomas that Dave Lombardo couldn't already cover. Nonetheless Terry Bozzio is a very talented drummer. Whether you like the music or not, very few can say they played with Zappa.

Anyway calling Phil Rudd and Charlie Watts wallflowers is just idiotic. Regardless of advanced drumset technique or ability, you're talking about 2 drummers who played so many parts so perfectly. Phill Rudd's time, consistency and precision, is on par with any of the greats, it just so happens that he plays with AC/DC. Charlie Watt's feel for the Rolling Stones's music is amazing and well crafted. His playing on the Exile on Main Street album alone is enough to put him among the greats.
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  #18  
Old 01-14-2010, 10:11 PM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

I would say that what Terry does now comes off much better live, in-person, than listening to recorded tracks or watching videos. There's just something about hearing/feeling all those acoustic drums & cymbals live that make the performances exciting. It's kind of like Kodo, the taiko drummers from Japan. I have seen them perform live three times, and I was blown away each time, but I'm not nearly as moved when listening to their CDs. Interestingly enough, Terry's current approach to drumming is very similar to taiko groups like Kodo, in that he creates musical compositions on the drums. The difference being Kodo is an ensemble performance, whereas Terry does it all by himself. If you haven't already, I would urge you to see Terry perform live before you form a final opinion about his performances. (And see Kodo too, if you get the chance.)
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Old 01-14-2010, 10:22 PM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

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Originally Posted by ANIMALBEATS View Post
well, i have to hold my hands up and say i've never heard any of his in band playing. But his solos i cant stand. If you have any tracks you think might change my mind please suggest them.
Jeff Beck's "Guitar Shop" should do the trick - the whole record demonstrates his very fluid manner and his unique constructions.

Also, "Spring Session M" by Missing Persons is great from beginning to end. There are some epic drum tracks on there. That is, if you can even find it anymore.

These two albums are pretty "standard" drumset-type stuff (for the most part): Double-bass, some rack toms and a couple floor toms. Hi hats and cymbals are mostly standard stuff, too. Except that he was pioneering the china stacks by that time, but at least he was using mostly "regulation" cymbals, too.

I can totally see your point, ANIMALBEATS, if I were new to him now, I wouldn't be floored either. Obviously, his technique is great, but he really sounds best in a good band if you ask me. I've seen him with Jeff Beck as I mentioned, but I've seen two of his clinics, as well. The first was in the early '90s when his kit was still manageable, and the second time with his big kit. I was a lot more impressed with the first clinic than the second.

To the Zappa stuff: I'm going to be a heretic here, and just say that it leaves me as cold as does Bozzio's solo stuff. I was first turned on to Bozzio, Colaiuta, and Wackerman through Zappa, but I just can't get into that kind of music anymore. But o each his own.
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Old 01-14-2010, 10:23 PM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

em, well its hard to descibe, he seems to be too deeply engrosed in his rythms, a bit too much of a precussionist for my liking, im also a fan of speed, and i dont see displaying that much.
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Old 01-14-2010, 10:49 PM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

It would be pretty fair to say that I would not be drumming anymore if it were not for Terry Bozzio.
I'm deaf in one ear, partially deaf in the other. I can not play in bands anymore. For 10 years I kept a basic set in the basement, go down and jam once or twice a month just to tell myself I still could.
I heard Terry on the big set. I wanted to do the same thing, create melodic solos. I am only playing for myself now, I could care less what people think of what I'm doing. I love it.Since seeing him 4 or 5 years ago, I have moved in a different melodic direction and now do school clinics and solo concerts.
If you don't like his playing fine,, everyone is different. I personally gag when anyone mentions that Bonham guy having anything more than average talent, but I understand if others disagree.
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Old 01-14-2010, 10:53 PM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

jimtyler have you got any bigger photos of that kit....?


And it looks dangerous to me to have cymbals above your head...if you have them.
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Old 01-14-2010, 10:54 PM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

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Originally Posted by Drums&Beer View Post

Anyway calling Phil Rudd and Charlie Watts wallflowers is just idiotic. Regardless of advanced drumset technique or ability, you're talking about 2 drummers who played so many parts so perfectly.
Well, they are wallflowers, and don't call me an idiot. I did not say they suck, like many drummers do, I am just saying I get sick of seeing average drummers exalted beyond recognition only because they play for groups that are beyond legendary status, and then seeing guys like Bozzio and Peart get roasted for being "overcomplicated".
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Old 01-14-2010, 11:00 PM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

I love Bozzio, and he's one of the few drummers I can actually watch do a drum solo anymore.

But sure, a lot of his more esoteric stuff is hard to listen to. Even as much of a fan of him as I am, I don't own his solo CD's, and I can't imagine sitting around listening to his solo's all day. And some of the more out there bands he's recorded with I can't take much of.

I had one his CD's with The Lonely Bears and it did nothing for me.
There were a few great moments on the 1st Black Light Syndrome album, but there were also a lot of songs that just sounded like mindless noodling.

Now, his (breif) time with Steve Vai was flat out amazing. I love his playing on Vai's "Sex and Religion" album. And with Jeff Beck on "Guitar Shop".

He had some great parts with Missing Persons as well. Many concepts that we've since heard played by numerous drummers on numerous records all started with ideas Terry played with Missing Person's and other bands he was prior to that time.

But whatever, there are some well known technical drummers I can't either. I wish I had a 1/4 of their technique, but musically, they leave me cold. Even as much as I listen to Rush, Dream Theater, Fates Warning, there are still other bands/artists/drummers out there that sound too much like they're reading exercises rather than playing music. But obviously, other people think otherwise.
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Old 01-15-2010, 01:08 AM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

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Originally Posted by Strangelove View Post
I am just saying I get sick of seeing average drummers exalted beyond recognition only because they play for groups that are beyond legendary status, and then seeing guys like Bozzio and Peart get roasted for being "overcomplicated".
I'm with you on this, Strangelove.

I guess I like Charlie Watts... I mean, that's a cool Gretsch and he never distracts from um, Mick? I read that he likes jazz and plays it a bit, but I've never heard any of that. Maybe it's not so much that I like Charlie Watts, but more like I don't dislike Charlie Watts.

I do like Phil Rudd's groove, but I used to hate his guts when I was a kid. I've gotten over that but I know a lot of drummers that don't sound too different from him.

Now I'm really going to start a crises on this thread - perhaps I should just start a new thread... oh well, here goes:

What's the deal with John Bonham? I've noticed on virtually all the drum forums that his throne is right next to God's. Even on cymbalholic, where the drummers are predominantly jazz, you won't hear a critical word about him.

And I'm certainly not going to start talking smack about him.

However, I never liked Led Zeppelin all that much so as much as I like Bonham, it's despite the band he played in. When I look at him in isolation, I see a guy who figured out how to make drums sound really cool by choosing large drums tuned to resonate nicely with a very classic Ludwig snare sound, but that really was Ludwig's sound (both snare & kit) as much, if not more, than it was Bonham's, IMO. Ditto for the Paiste's.

He did have an enormous groove, though, and I'm pretty sure that's the thing that his biggest fans are attracted to (plus his kit sound), but I'm not sure.

There have been other drummers that have had that heavy thing in their playing before him, but they didn't play in Led Zeppelin. Gus Johnson from Count Basie comes to mind - big fat kick with that Bonham-esque behind-the-beat punch. This was from the early '50s. Don't hear much about him.

Anyway - Sorry John, no disrespect... just wondering how you got yourself immortalized for being, okay, well above average, but without 1/2 the skill set as many more technically proficient drummers.

Back to topic: I found Spring Session M on Rhapsody and am listening to it now. I don't care what anyone says, Bozzio rules!
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Old 01-15-2010, 04:04 AM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

What's missing in this discussion about "wallflowers" is that undefinable quality in a drummer's contribution to a song: that unique musical personality that every musician has. It manifests in how they play (personality), what they play (composition), and how they sound (undefinable). Sure, there were guys out there who were more technically proficient that Charlie Watts, but we have no real basis for comparison where it matters most. That is, we don't have tracks of other drummers creating and performing those same Stones songs at the same point in time. What would those songs have sounded like with a different drummer? Different for sure. The gear would have been different, the rhythms and fills would have been different, as would the grooves. The song structures may have even changed in some cases. But would the songs have been better? Hard to imagine that. Would they have been as good? Maybe. Would they have been inferior? Possibly. Again, it's impossible to know for sure. I'd venture to guess, though, if we could hear such recordings, it may come as a surprise to some how much better they sound with Watts, and then maybe a bulb would pop on. We can talk about who is more skilled than whom, but skills are just part of the overall equation. They get noticed because they are concrete and easy to evaluate. But sometimes we forget about the more elusive qualities in drumming because they aren't so easy to put your finger on, but they are just as important, imo.

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Old 01-15-2010, 10:28 AM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

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What's missing in this discussion about "wallflowers" is that undefinable quality in a drummer's contribution to a song: that unique musical personality that every musician has. It manifests in how they play (personality), what they play (composition), and how they sound (undefinable). Sure, there were guys out there who were more technically proficient that Charlie Watts, but we have no real basis for comparison where it matters most. That is, we don't have tracks of other drummers creating and performing those same Stones songs at the same point in time. What would those songs have sounded like with a different drummer? Different for sure. The gear would have been different, the rhythms and fills would have been different, as would the grooves. The song structures may have even changed in some cases. But would the songs have been better? Hard to imagine that. Would they have been as good? Maybe. Would they have been inferior? Possibly. Again, it's impossible to know for sure. I'd venture to guess, though, if we could hear such recordings, it may come as a surprise to some how much better they sound with Watts, and then maybe a bulb would pop on. We can talk about who is more skilled than whom, but skills are just part of the overall equation. They get noticed because they are concrete and easy to evaluate. But sometimes we forget about the more elusive qualities in drumming because they aren't so easy to put your finger on, but they are just as important, imo.
Nice post, Boom. It's impossible to know.

It's easier to look at what drummers play and how they play it, less straightforward to look at how the ideas behind what a drummer plays - the why. I'm with The Merovingian in this debate..
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Old 01-15-2010, 04:58 PM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

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I'm with you on this, Strangelove.

I guess I like Charlie Watts... I mean, that's a cool Gretsch and he never distracts from um, Mick? I read that he likes jazz and plays it a bit, but I've never heard any of that. Maybe it's not so much that I like Charlie Watts, but more like I don't dislike Charlie Watts.

I do like Phil Rudd's groove, but I used to hate his guts when I was a kid. I've gotten over that but I know a lot of drummers that don't sound too different from him.

Now I'm really going to start a crises on this thread - perhaps I should just start a new thread... oh well, here goes:

What's the deal with John Bonham? I've noticed on virtually all the drum forums that his throne is right next to God's. Even on cymbalholic, where the drummers are predominantly jazz, you won't hear a critical word about him.

And I'm certainly not going to start talking smack about him.

However, I never liked Led Zeppelin all that much so as much as I like Bonham, it's despite the band he played in. When I look at him in isolation, I see a guy who figured out how to make drums sound really cool by choosing large drums tuned to resonate nicely with a very classic Ludwig snare sound, but that really was Ludwig's sound (both snare & kit) as much, if not more, than it was Bonham's, IMO. Ditto for the Paiste's.

He did have an enormous groove, though, and I'm pretty sure that's the thing that his biggest fans are attracted to (plus his kit sound), but I'm not sure.

There have been other drummers that have had that heavy thing in their playing before him, but they didn't play in Led Zeppelin. Gus Johnson from Count Basie comes to mind - big fat kick with that Bonham-esque behind-the-beat punch. This was from the early '50s. Don't hear much about him.

Anyway - Sorry John, no disrespect... just wondering how you got yourself immortalized for being, okay, well above average, but without 1/2 the skill set as many more technically proficient drummers.

Back to topic: I found Spring Session M on Rhapsody and am listening to it now. I don't care what anyone says, Bozzio rules!
To be honest, I am a Gretsch fan, myself, and enjoy listening to Watts - always have. But when I see threads lionizing the guy as one of the greatest, I cannot believe my eyes. I don't think Charlie himself would ever even classify himself as one of the greats. Neither would Phil Collins, Don Henley, Phil Rudd, etc. They all were famous drummers from legendary rock groups, but legendary great drummers, they are not.

Bonham, he is lionized in the same way, but I believe a cut above those other guys in talent abilities. I doubt Watts or Rudd could even attempt "Good Times, Bad Times" in the manner John played it. But there are alot of drummers more accomplished than Bonham, too.
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Old 01-15-2010, 06:12 PM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

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I liked his work with Zappa, missing persons and the solo's. What I didn't like is that he didnt invite Vinnie C to the drumchannel "Best zappa drummers-episode". Maybe it has to do with the whole zappa-audition thingy.
Word is ....he DID invite him...but Vinnie did not participate.

I really have liked almost all of Bozzio's stuff...His Zappa material,UK, Missing Persons, Jeff Beck ( felt he was lost in a sea of guitars with Vai-sorry-even thought I like Vai )his solo drumming takes awhile to digest or get into ....but for me at least once I felt like I *got* what he is doing -I enjoyed it that much more from a listener's perspective.Plus my discovery years and years ago of his stuff led to the other Zappa drummers for me. Hey at least he is not all head-pitting gospel chops fills...now THAT is something I grow tired of pretty quick.
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Old 01-15-2010, 06:26 PM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

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I would say that what Terry does now comes off much better live, in-person, than listening to recorded tracks or watching videos. There's just something about hearing/feeling all those acoustic drums & cymbals live that make the performances exciting. It's kind of like Kodo, the taiko drummers from Japan. I have seen them perform live three times, and I was blown away each time, but I'm not nearly as moved when listening to their CDs. Interestingly enough, Terry's current approach to drumming is very similar to taiko groups like Kodo, in that he creates musical compositions on the drums. The difference being Kodo is an ensemble performance, whereas Terry does it all by himself. If you haven't already, I would urge you to see Terry perform live before you form a final opinion about his performances. (And see Kodo too, if you get the chance.)
Agree...the first perfromance I saw in person was with MP...he had the electronic kit he desinged himself back then.... absolutely crazy wild man playing...some skinny dude with orange hair and a Purple suit going ballistic. Up to that point Neil Peart I had though was"the best"....his fast double bass work on the Shark pedals floored me. From then on I really got into his past work with Zappa and ( all the other Zappa drummers) and into jazz and so on and so on....I've always followed what he has been doing ever since and do think his "drumset as an orchestra" stuff is great.

I know what others are saying about Charlie Watts etc...it's true sometimes I think the whole band thing overshadows the actual playing...not putting down those guys at all....but even though I realize it is all about balance and taste I STILL get infuriated when people worship the idol of simplicity and slag on people who have decided to go a different perhaps more techinal route. It's silly. There is room for everything and not everyone wants to only be a support player in pop music.
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Old 01-15-2010, 07:32 PM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

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There is room for everything and not everyone wants to only be a support player in pop music.
Agreed!
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Old 01-15-2010, 08:04 PM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

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What's the deal with John Bonham? I've noticed on virtually all the drum forums that his throne is right next to God's. Even on cymbalholic, where the drummers are predominantly jazz, you won't hear a critical word about him.
Yeah, Bonzomoon will come out like an attack dog if you had posted this over there, lol. That forum does seem to have it's surprisingly large share of zepheads. My personal opinion on the worship of John Bonham is that his death immortalized him, similar to Jim Morrison and Janis Joplin. I know back in the 1970's none of the drummers I knew worshipped Bonham the way they do now, and I admit, with the digitalization of zeps recordings now, I can appreciate alot of intricacies that I can hear from him now that I could not back then, particularly those 16th bass drum triplets that he could pull off with one pedal.
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Old 01-15-2010, 08:18 PM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

Playboy bunnies and their silicone type are a dime a dozen. I wouldn't use that as a criteria. And many of the greats from days gone hauled their own gear, so I think that entire line of thinking is moot.
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Old 01-16-2010, 12:02 AM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

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Playboy bunnies and their silicone type are a dime a dozen. I wouldn't use that as a criteria. And many of the greats from days gone hauled their own gear, so I think that entire line of thinking is mute.
Yes, I felt the comment was moot and probably should have been mute :)


As for the latest comments .... I don't see a whole lot of people making out that Charlie Watts is one of "the greats". What I do see is a lot of "I love Charlie's playing and his approach". You see the occasional post calling him or Ringo or Phil or Meg "The Greatest" (or whatever) but that's just web talk - people often use "the greatest" in lieu of "my favourite". They know that Terry B and the many virtuosic drummers out there run rings around those players technically, but obviously the star players' drumming doesn't touch them the way their faves do.

Guys - is your partner the prettiest, smartest, leggiest, richest, most charming, astute, successful, kind, friendly, ethical woman in the world (oh, and has the most perfectly formed breasts and a sex goddess)? My guess is not, but she is still your favourite woman. Same deal.

Druid, I don't see anyone worshipping "the idol of simplicity" either. I'd say virtuosity is idolised more than simplicity on this forum and others. Some people rebel against that and appreciate humility more than flash and ostentatiousness. Probably looking more for tastiness than excitement. It depends on what floats your boat. Also, some drummers are more into music as a whole than drums in particular and just like to be part of the music-making process, even if the role is a relatively minor one. I disagree with dissing dynamic and exciting musicianship, though. There's a lot of musical flavours out there to enjoy.

Still, one of the most common mistakes young drummers make is overplaying - putting their own playing ahead of the music and going for the exciting hero stuff even if it's sloppy and sounds like a lot of clutter. Often they won't acknowledge how challenging it can be to execute lines with a lot of space crisply and with groove. When you play a lot of notes it can provide cover for sloppy timing. Many of us have been there done that.

So old people often tell young 'uns about the mistakes they made in their youth in the hope that the next generation can avoid those blind alleys. Of course it's pointless because the young 'uns usually just tell us to get [expletived] and do it twice as much :)

Boomstick, your comment about Terry B coming across better live is spot on IMO. I was a long way back in a big hall and Terry was just a teenager at the time, and I was still blown away. If anyone has the chance to see him play live, I suggest you don't worry about his recordings and go see him. He's a huge talent and he conveys an insane level of excitement live.

Last edited by Pollyanna; 01-16-2010 at 01:10 AM.
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Old 01-16-2010, 12:31 AM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

eh............is this terry?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gzt6PwuQABk

Because here i think he plays with power and speed.

But here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqLss...eature=related

i just cant get away with it, i suppose its his musicality that i dont have the time for

here too, i just cant listen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3jAK...eature=related
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Old 01-16-2010, 12:51 AM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

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Nice post, Boom. It's impossible to know.

It's easier to look at what drummers play and how they play it, less straightforward to look at how the ideas behind what a drummer plays - the why. I'm with The Merovingian in this debate..
Hey, don't get me started on the Matrix or I'll be here all night. That was a great scene, by the way. That actor played it perfectly.
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Old 01-16-2010, 12:56 AM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

This thread got me thinking a lot about the role of the kit drummer in popular music today.

The kit drummer is generally not a solo performer. Very few people would buy a CD or watch a show of just one drummer playing for an hour or two. We are really dependent on other instruments being played along with us. So, as I see it, our role must be evaluated primarily on how it fits into a band context. The kit drummer provides one component of a whole (the song), and how that component supports and enhances the overall song is of primary importance.

Now, I believe this presents somewhat of a conundrum for drummers like Bozzio whose abilities begin to exceed the limits of what works in a band context. Here's a guy whose abilities are pretty extraordinary, so much so that I think a band context can actually be constraining for him.

Take the first Missing Persons album, "Spring Session M." If you listen to the songs that were intended to be singles like "Destination Unknown," "Words," and "Walking in LA," you will notice the drumming is pretty simple and straightforward. Bozzio understood that such an approach was necessary for audience friendly/radio friendly tracks. But he's a guy that's not content to limit himself to that realm. So, other tracks on the album feature much more prominent drum parts with more complex rhythms and monstrous fills. Since I am a drummer, I love listening to them. But at the same time, I wonder at what point they become less a song and more of a showcase for Bozzio's drumming abilities.

Such an approach works better in a less conventional band, progressive or whatever one might call it. It's generally not my thing, but I do think it's admirable. It likely won't have as broad of an appeal a the simpler, pop sound, so I think such musicians are generally pursuing their art first and their commercial ambitions second. Bozzio has explored such genres with Zappa etc. But I think even those bands may have been somewhat constraining for him at times. I think his abilities and ambitions as a drummer eventually exceeded what was possible in a band context.

So, he decided to become a solo act, composing and performing entire "songs" on a drum kit, albeit a very large one. In doing so, he is really taking the drum kit into new and uncharted waters, pushing the limits of what's possible with a drum kit. I give him a huge amount of credit for this. He could have nearly any band gig he wants, but he chose to follow is own artistic path, even though it may have been less lucrative for him money-wise. He certainly had more commercial success with Missing Persons, for example.

But now, taking this back full circle, what about the drummer who enjoys a more radio-friendly, pop style of music? This is the kind of music I like, and it's the kind of music I want to play. But there's not much room for drumming virtuosity in this format. However, this does not mean I'm content with learning some basic abilities and putting on the cruise control. I still practice with enthusiasm, always wanting to improve my playing, even if it is fairly simple.

Well, I don't know if I've come to any real conclusions here. These are just some thoughts I had. But I do agree that the whole simple vs. complex argument is kind of pointless. I can probably draw inspiration from any pro-level drummer, even if their overall style isn't my cup of tea. Diversity in music is a good thing. What could be more boring than everyone doing the exact same thing?
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Old 01-16-2010, 01:02 AM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

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Hey, don't get me started on the Matrix or I'll be here all night. That was a great scene, by the way. That actor played it perfectly.
Yeah, loved that scene ... "and zis is how you come to me, wizhout why, wizhout power" :)

Damn, noticed another typing mistake, it was supposed to read: "It's easier to look at what drummers play and how they play it, less straightforward to look at ideas behind what a drummer plays - the why". I need an editor!

I always thought this was a great Terry performance http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF_Nmkjmt_k - scorching and theatrical. And with a VERY young looking pre-Crimson Adrian Belew upfront.

Last edited by Pollyanna; 01-16-2010 at 01:15 AM.
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  #39  
Old 01-16-2010, 01:21 AM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

Good post boomstick.

I agree that playing in bands might be too limiting for someone like Bozzio. I remember reading that Bozzio was a little reluctant to play with Jeff Beck and set some musical conditions for doing it - like no call-and-response type jammy stuff.

Just to contrast that idea with one equally valid, I also remember reading where Stuart Copeland refused to do anything that might resemble a drum solo. He thought they were completely pointless and tacky.

There's two very influential, virtuoso, and creative drummers, from the same era, with very different views on the role of drums within (or without) a musical context.
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Old 01-16-2010, 01:23 AM
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Default Re: Sorry guys i dislike terry bozzio.

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Damn, noticed another typing mistake, it was supposed to read: "It's easier to look at what drummers play and how they play it, less straightforward to look at ideas behind what a drummer plays - the why". I need an editor!
Ah, yes, that's much clearer now. I like it! Sums up my point perfectly.
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