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  #1  
Old 10-20-2009, 07:15 PM
slimjw slimjw is offline
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Default Snare stand recommendation to hold tom with 26 inch kick

Can anyone who uses a 26 inch kick recommend a specific snare stand for the rack tom? Been looking at some stands in local shops, but it seems like a lot of them are too short to accommodate the height of the 26x14 BD. What are you guys using to hold your small tom?

10x14 Tom, FYI...
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  #2  
Old 10-20-2009, 07:40 PM
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Default Re: Snare stand recommendation to hold tom with 26 inch kick

If the snare stands are too short, you could get a "concert" snare stand.

I'm REALLY NOT a fan of mounting toms on snare stands, and would recommend a RIMS-style mount or, for a tom that size, maybe even just make it into a floor tom by giving it legs. When you put it in the snare stand, it chokes the resonance of the drum considerably. If you muffle the carp out of your drum so that it sounds like cardboard anyways, it doesn't matter, I guess. If not, though, go with a mounting system, and always mount it over one of the legs so the stand doesn't tip over...
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  #3  
Old 10-20-2009, 10:17 PM
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Default Re: Snare stand recommendation to hold tom with 26 inch kick

Depends on how high you want your tom, but I have used several to hold my rack tom (on a 26).
Pretty much any make you want that doesn't have the "low" basket for snare drums if your tom sits more towards the top of the shell.

Pearl's S-2000 stand goes pretty high, it has an adjustable basket, and the grips on the basket have some give (because they have 'cut outs') and don't choke the tom at all.

DW stands go pretty high, Ludwig's regular basket Modular will work, the Gibraltar 9600 stand will work....
I use the DW flat base stand for my 8x12 right now (on my gig kit), and it's very sturdy even under hard playing. That one will go pretty high if you are into a vintage look (or are just OVER heavy hardware now like me).

The Pearl stand is super nice actually, and it goes high. It's ultra adjustable and the setting stays put after you tighten it and it doesn't need much to secure the wing nuts (which feel comfortable too). It's not that expensive either for how beefy it is....it ain't gonna break.

Good luck.
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Old 11-02-2009, 04:19 PM
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Default Re: Snare stand recommendation to hold tom with 26 inch kick

Quote:
Originally Posted by caddywumpus View Post
If the snare stands are too short, you could get a "concert" snare stand.

I'm REALLY NOT a fan of mounting toms on snare stands, and would recommend a RIMS-style mount or, for a tom that size, maybe even just make it into a floor tom by giving it legs. When you put it in the snare stand, it chokes the resonance of the drum considerably. If you muffle the carp out of your drum so that it sounds like cardboard anyways, it doesn't matter, I guess. If not, though, go with a mounting system, and always mount it over one of the legs so the stand doesn't tip over...
I understand that a lot of people claim that snare stand mounting "chokes" toms... but I guess I fail to see much difference between holding a tom with rubber grommets by it's top rim and sitting it in a basket with rubber gaskets touching it's bottom rim. I think the rims mounting system is overrated and IMO causes more headaches than it solves - I hate head changes on drums with rims mounts... they are generally wobbly and unstable... and I have never heard any appreciable change in tone or sustain from them... especially for live playing. I have also had bent rims and tons of tuning issues when using rims equipped drums... especially on larger heavier toms.

The key with putting toms - or even your snare on a snare stand - is not to over tighten the basket. You want the drum to sit in the basket not be held in a death grip.

And BTW... I like my toms wide open with no dampening / muffling.

Given that many pro players sit toms in snare stands... I say go for it and I'll echo the above poster... I use a DW stand for my 12 inch toms and they adjust pretty high.
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Old 11-02-2009, 05:51 PM
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Default Re: Snare stand recommendation to hold tom with 26 inch kick

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Originally Posted by sqadan View Post
I understand that a lot of people claim that snare stand mounting "chokes" toms... but I guess I fail to see much difference between holding a tom with rubber grommets by it's top rim and sitting it in a basket with rubber gaskets touching it's bottom rim.
When held from the top, it's "suspending" the tom, and possibly pulling up on the top rim, like if you held a tom with your fingers by its top rim. In a snare stand, you're putting the entire weight of the drum on the bottom rim, which definitely affects the tuning of the resonant head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sqadan View Post
I think the rims mounting system is overrated and IMO causes more headaches than it solves -
Carrying an extra snare stand to a gig is much more of a headache, IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sqadan View Post
I hate head changes on drums with rims mounts...
Yep, the one drawback is the head changes, but you only need to do that every few months anyways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sqadan View Post
they are generally wobbly and unstable...
It depends on the angle you mount them at. If you mount them flat (like you'd have to do with a snare stand, so as not to have to clamp down on the tom), there's virtually no wobble. Also, I like the "give" and wobble of the tom, even though I don't play them at an angle that allows it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sqadan View Post
and I have never heard any appreciable change in tone or sustain from them... especially for live playing.
There is a WORLD of difference between a shell-mounted tom and a RIMS-mounted tom. There are 2 worlds of difference between a snare stand-mounted tom and a RIMS-mounted tom. It doesn't make much difference if you tune your drums in the choking range, though.

Depending on where you play live, sometimes playing on cardboard would give you just as good of a sound as playing a drum. Close-miking just hears the sound of the top head, basically. You might as well play on a Pearl Rhythm Traveler...it will sound virtually the same as a DW kit with the same heads through the PA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sqadan View Post
I have also had bent rims and tons of tuning issues when using rims equipped drums... especially on larger heavier toms.
For the larger and heavier drums, I usually use the floor tom legs that come with them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sqadan View Post
The key with putting toms - or even your snare on a snare stand - is not to over tighten the basket. You want the drum to sit in the basket not be held in a death grip.
...unless you want your toms at an angle. Yeah, over-tightening a basket has yet ANOTHER degree of a dampening effect after snare stand-mounting and shell-mounting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sqadan View Post
And BTW... I like my toms wide open with no dampening / muffling.
With a RIMS mount, you can play them even more wide open. Playing a tom in a snare stand (unless it's tuned up into the stratosphere) is just another factor that determines how much/little sustain/resonance a tom has. It has more of a dampening effect than moongel or duct taping tissue paper to the batter head, in my experience. You can always take away sustain by treating your drum heads, but you can never add sustain. If you like the sound of your tom in a snare stand, then that's awesome and you should absolutely do it...some of us just like more sustain then that option has to offer.
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  #6  
Old 11-02-2009, 06:38 PM
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Default Re: Snare stand recommendation to hold tom with 26 inch kick

Caddywumpus... I see your points - I'm just saying that in my experience - I've always been able to get a nice open ringing sound from my snare stand mounted toms... But everything is relative - so I suppose rims mounting might add more resonance.

But I take issue with the idea that it will always make your toms sound like "cardboard" That's your opinion I guess... I know my drums don't sound like cardboard. And I don't tune my drums in the "choked" range. I generally tune them in the lower range of the drum with both heads tuned to the same pitch. Everything sounds pretty round and warm with plenty of sustain. Maybe my ears are broken... I've been at this for over 20 years in the studio and on stage though - so I doubt it.

Again - everybody hears these things differently to some degree... but rims mounts have not been around forever, and drummers got by without them for years. I've owned kits with and without - and my best sounding kit, my 68 Ludwig Downbeats have a rail consolette and shell mounted tom mount.

I know you have lot's of posts on this board - and I generally respect my "elders" But I do think that with this kind of thing there is a lot of brow beating and "well if you want your drums to sound like crap" stuff that goes on even though most of this stuff is subjective.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 11-02-2009, 07:37 PM
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Default Re: Snare stand recommendation to hold tom with 26 inch kick

Personally, and this is coming from a tom on snare stand guy, I wouldn't run the 14" tom on a snare stand especially with a 26 bass drum. You'll have some serious positioning issues i.e. the tom being further to left than the snare. Doing a steady roll from the snare to the floor toms may become a bit more cumbersome.
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Old 11-02-2009, 07:38 PM
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Default Re: Snare stand recommendation to hold tom with 26 inch kick

Hmm...I didn't say that mounting your tom on a snare stand would make your toms sound like cardboard. I was just saying that usually drums don't sound like drums in a loud live concert situation, usually. There's usually a "ticky" attack, perhaps followed by a tone, but not often, as it has a hard time cutting through the distorted amps turned up to 11 (but cranked to 13 through the mains). I don't play these kinds of gigs anymore, though...not enough pay. :)

Yeah, I have a 1970 Downbeat as my gigging kit. I wasn't getting much sound out of my 12" tom. I tried mounting it to the bass drum, on a snare stand, even on a RIMS mount...not much singing happening, although the RIMS mount had the most for sure. Then, I took off the tom-mounting bracket: Aaaahhhhhh! THERE'S the sound of the drum!--In this case, I'm a fan of RIMS, but mostly because it allows you to take that bulky hardware that's choking the drum shell's resonance at it's most resonant point.

I know that drummers got by without RIMS for years, but the "accepted" tuning back then was much higher than it is nowadays. I like the RIMS mounts because they allow a drum to sing at JAW tuning and all the way up through their range (something that typically doesn't happen when mounted with tom-affixed clamp or clip mounts). It gives me more options live as well as in the studio. I actually prefer the DW STM mounts, as they don't interfere with tuning or head changes at all, but they haven't invented those for vintage Ludwigs yet. :(

Post counts don't matter to me, and it sounds like you have more years' experience playing than me, anyways (I've been playing for 13 years, professionally as my sole source of income for the last 3). One of the things that makes this forum great is that everyone can express their opinions and there's a sense of mutual respect. If you feel as though I was attacking you at all, I apologize, as that wasn't my intention. I just sometimes like to break things down point by point. If we have differing opinions, that's totally cool. I even said that if you get the sound you want out of your tom when it's on a snare stand, then that's great and you should keep doing that.

I've just been overly meticulous with my experimentation with drumming technology over the last few years, figuring out exactly HOW those things impact the sound. I think that if RIMS mounts didn't actually work, they wouldn't still be around. I've certainly proved, at least to myself, that they DO, and that they have the desired effect on the sound of my drums which helps me sound the way that I want to.
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  #9  
Old 11-02-2009, 08:24 PM
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Default Re: Snare stand recommendation to hold tom with 26 inch kick

Sorry if I sounded irritated Caddywumpus...

I'm just used to the "I know better than you" attitude on some of these boards and I guess I mis-read your intentions.

I have no issue at all with rims when other people use them - I think everybody should use what they like. I just have a dis-like for them for my own applications. Honestly, I really prefer the old school mount on the bass drum mount on the shell type mounting over everything... but with sometimes fragile older hardware, this does not always work out. I guess I'm just set in my ways to a degree... I'm all for getting the most out of your drums - I just define that differently than some folks I guess.
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Old 11-02-2009, 11:54 PM
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Default Re: Snare stand recommendation to hold tom with 26 inch kick

Quote:
Originally Posted by slimjw View Post
Can anyone who uses a 26 inch kick recommend a specific snare stand for the rack tom? Been looking at some stands in local shops, but it seems like a lot of them are too short to accommodate the height of the 26x14 BD. What are you guys using to hold your small tom?

10x14 Tom, FYI...
Over the years, I've gathered quite a few "parts and pieces". I swap out tripods all the time. If a snare stand bottom is too short, then I find a cymbal stand (or double tom stand) tripod that will work. Your 2 most common pipe sizes incountered will probably be 7/8 and 1 inch. Your local drum shop might have an "orphan hardware box". Great place to loot just the right sized unit you need.
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:12 AM
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Default Re: Snare stand recommendation to hold tom with 26 inch kick

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Originally Posted by KarlCrafton View Post
Pearl's S-2000 stand goes pretty high, it has an adjustable basket, and the grips on the basket have some give (because they have 'cut outs') and don't choke the tom at all.

The Pearl stand is super nice actually, and it goes high. It's ultra adjustable and the setting stays put after you tighten it and it doesn't need much to secure the wing nuts (which feel comfortable too). It's not that expensive either for how beefy it is....it ain't gonna break.

Good luck.
Can only speak for Pearl hardware as that's all I use, but just to add to this post, the S2000, S1000 and S900 will all extend reasonably high. The 1000 and 2000 models have the added benefit of using 'suspension grips' on the basket claws. Susposedly meant to reduce the amount of pressure on the drum rim.

If this fails, enquire about the concert snare models. I think they are available across all three series mentioned. The product code has an 'L' following the number to indictate a LONG stand. ie. S2000L, S1000L etc. These will extend higher than you'll ever need.....unless you are 9 feet tall.
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:46 AM
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Default Re: Snare stand recommendation to hold tom with 26 inch kick

I must be seeing things but in that photo looks as if that tom is being held by a tom mount and sitting on a stand?? I'm old but the eyes are still fairly good. Am I wrong?
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:52 AM
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Default Re: Snare stand recommendation to hold tom with 26 inch kick

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I must be seeing things but in that photo looks as if that tom is being held by a tom mount and sitting on a stand?? I'm old but the eyes are still fairly good. Am I wrong?
No GD, you are quite correct.

I think he did this early on with the natural maple kit and then again in the late 70's with the stainless steel kit. To my knowledge Bonzo never used just the snare stand on its own. He had it there for extra support..........I guess if anyone needed extra tom support, it would be the 'thunder of drums' that was JHB.
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Old 11-03-2009, 07:11 AM
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Default Re: Snare stand recommendation to hold tom with 26 inch kick

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Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
I must be seeing things but in that photo looks as if that tom is being held by a tom mount and sitting on a stand?? I'm old but the eyes are still fairly good. Am I wrong?
And the tom mount is a Rogers Swivomatic, not a Luddy. Quite a common modification "back in the day", the Swivo was stronger than the Luddy Rail Consolette, so a lot of cats hung Rogers hardware on Ludwig kits. Bonham, however, went with an "oversized" 14" rack. 99.9% of all drummers were using 12 and 13 inch racks. And to boot, John liked to play his kit with his hands. So, with the combination of "big drum" and "hand drumming", even the Swivo was overloaded. So out came the snare stand.
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Old 11-04-2009, 07:23 AM
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Default Re: Snare stand recommendation to hold tom with 26 inch kick

I am personally waiting on the snare stand with the counter-weight. No pun intended.


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Old 11-09-2009, 10:38 PM
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Default Re: Snare stand recommendation to hold tom with 26 inch kick

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Originally Posted by Skitch View Post
I am personally waiting on the snare stand with the counter-weight. No pun intended.
There is a counter weight by DW that is pretty big (the open area the tube fits in).
That weight should fit over the 'knurled' extender that DW uses on their stand.
It should probably work for you on that huge & heavy snare you must have!

slimjw:

Pocket-full-of-gold is right, the Peal snare stands (S-1000 & S-2000) should go high enough to get the bottom rim over the second lug on a 26 for sure.
Maybe even close to the top if extended fully (reasonable amount of tube left so it doesn't tip).
I'd check, but that stand isn't on my home kit.

The Suspension grips never seemed to choke any of the resonance from my toms at all.

That's the main reason I bought the stand in the first place, and there's no real difference in sound between that Pearl stand and the RIMS mount I have for those toms either (all well tuned BTW :-) ) as far as my ears can tell. They aren't gripped super tight, just enough where the tom is secure when you pick it up and it won't just come right off the stand.
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Old 11-12-2009, 04:12 PM
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Default Re: Snare stand recommendation to hold tom with 26 inch kick

I use this one for my 14x14 tom
http://www.tamadrum.co.jp/product/ha...ar=2009&area=2
My kick is a 26" also. I think as long as you don't tight the stand around the drum then it doesn't kill the sound. Least to me it doesn't. I like this stnad alot though. It can go really low or really high. I also use one of these for my 14x8 snare.
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Old 11-13-2009, 09:57 PM
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Default Re: Snare stand recommendation to hold tom with 26 inch kick

That Tama stand is pretty cool.
The swiveling basket is neat. I like to off-set basket arms for the strainer/butt too.
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