What would you pay?? - Page 2

Paul Quin · #41 04-30-2009, 08:09 PM

Oh - and to return this thread to its actual topic: I find it dissapointing that so many people who spend so much time here value the service provided so poorly. I agree that if this was a pay-forum, that many would go somewhere else where it was free but considering how great this place is - and how respectful (most) people are - shouldn't we all be prepared to pay for what we get? While this is clearly a labor of love for Bernhard and for Thomas and Jason, why shouldn't they earn money for doing so? How many of us would be prepared to give so freely of our time and effort only for others to take advantage of our generosity.

Comments about not being able to afford to pay only really reveal a bias toward other priorities. Surely a fee of $10 per month for the benefits provided by this site is nothing. If everybody wanted to learn badly enough they would pay. Unfortunately, there seems to be a culturaly ingrained sense of entitlement to places such as this. How sad is that.

Paul

Mediocrefunkybeat · #42 04-30-2009, 08:39 PM

Lewis, do you not realise that you've just proved Gruntersdad's point by posting back in that manner? He's a member that I have great respect for and is a genuinely kind and generous man who actually shows a level of intelligence. Face it, you're an angry kid. If you'd met me a few years ago I was much the same so for your sake I hope you grow out of it. You also know that swearing is against the rules on this forum and for a perfectly legitimate reason.

If you get banned because of what you just said, then I would support the moderators. You've just broken at least forum rules (that you agreed to) when you posted that remark at Gruntersdad; who is actually trying to do you a favour.

joshisaces · #43 04-30-2009, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 805Drummer

You know, no offense to anyone, but even though you said some stuff that is obviously against the rules and will get you banned, I must agree with some of your post...I feel for you. When I first came here, I was scolded by a lot of the older members as well.

Exactly, when we first start skimming through the forums and get advice from someone like aydee, Gruntersdad, etc. (members with a lot of experience) we don't know them and smart off to them, but as we get to know them more, we respect them even if we still do know very little about them. We come to recognize that they really are helpful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Quin

Oh - and to return this thread to its actual topic:

I NEVER use this (whatever it is) when typing, but....... LOL!

805Drummer · #44 04-30-2009, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Quin

Oh - and to return this thread to its actual topic: I find it dissapointing that so many people who spend so much time here value the service provided so poorly. I agree that if this was a pay-forum, that many would go somewhere else where it was free but considering how great this place is - and how respectful (most) people are - shouldn't we all be prepared to pay for what we get? While this is clearly a labor of love for Bernhard and for Thomas and Jason, why shouldn't they earn money for doing so? How many of us would be prepared to give so freely of our time and effort only for others to take advantage of our generosity.

Comments about not being able to afford to pay only really reveal a bias toward other priorities. Surely a fee of $10 per month for the benefits provided by this site is nothing. If everybody wanted to learn badly enough they would pay. Unfortunately, there seems to be a culturaly ingrained sense of entitlement to places such as this. How sad is that.

Paul

You know, I have to say, I disagree with you.

First off--I might be mistaken--but isn't Bernhard making money off Drummerworld? I would assume he is, because with using the ads to pay for bandwidth, you don't just break even.

And you say that if everybody wants to learn badly enough, they would pay...well, that's not true. It's the people who drive this forum forward--purely the content. The moderation is a nice extra, but the people don't have to use Drummerworld. If, hypothetically, one day every active member here decided to leave Drummerworld and start a new site, it wouldn't be much different.

And while it's true that we have a culturally engrained sense of entitlement--that's true, but it's not the only reason why we wouldn't be willing to pay for the site. Because there ARE other priorities, such as food, clothing, and shelter.

DogBreath · #45 04-30-2009, 11:35 PM

Posts deleted, and one sad little teenaged potty mouth banned. I'm sure he'll go somewhere else and complain about how he was banned for "nothing." Even in a thread that is attempting to thank us for what we do, some silly boy has to show his backside. Off now, lad. Run and play.

I know that I'm only saying what most of you know, but neither Jason nor I have taken a single penny for the years that we have put up with such nonsense, and the money that Bernhard gets for the ads on the site doesn't come close to covering what he has paid out of his own pocket. Dozens upon dozens of pro and semi-pro drummers telling the world that DrummerWorld is the best at what we do, and a few silly sods crying that they actually have to act like grown adults if they're going to hang out here. I can't think of a better way to look like the south end of a north-facing donkey.

drummerchick435 · #46 05-01-2009, 01:13 AM

I'd pay $10-$20. I LOVE DW! I would hate to see it go! I consider a lot of people here good friends.

drumhead61 · #47 05-02-2009, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drummerchick435

I'd pay $10-$20. I LOVE DW! I would hate to see it go! I consider a lot of people here good friends.

Here's the thing folks...if you WOULD pay have you made a contribution? I am not saying I am a regular contributor to the till, but I am willing to put my money where my mouth is and pay and for those that cannot or will not I would still pay just so that they can be here as well; DW IMO is too valuable to squirrel away to only those that can pay there is no other resource out there near the value as this!

And for our moderators....RIGHT ON TO EACH OF THEM!!!! I would expect that if I broke the rules I would either be warned or booted and not fault them at all...that is why I try to keep my nose out of the occasional poo that may come along!

To our gracious HOSTS: CHEERS!!!!

JIM

trysthedrummer · #48 05-02-2009, 11:57 AM

I definitely agree with you drumhead61, this place is too valuable, one of the best drum forums out there with lots of pro and semi-pro drummers as users. Sorry, THE best forum without a doubt.

I would happily pay anything upto £20 for the ammount of expertise lurking around here. We're all a big happy family!

BENANEB · #49 06-30-2009, 06:20 AM

the more and more i think about it, i think i would pay for this forum. its a great site, and i think i take it for granted sometimes.

Ironcobra · #50 06-30-2009, 06:25 AM

I don't think I would pay right now because I don't use the site very much. If it was late 2008 I would probably fork out $30 a year.

Ian Williams · #51 07-01-2009, 03:25 AM

I would invite more people to join the DrummerWorld Community. As matter of fact, I do it actually and passing the word around.

DrummerDrummer · #52 07-03-2009, 12:15 AM

First of all, I love DrummerWorld and have been a user for years, and a forum lurker for a long time as well. I love this site and think it's great that Bernhard has worked so hard in providing us with quality exclusive information on our favorite drummers.

That said, I know that this is a business for Bernhard. If there was no money to be made, he wouldn't be doing it. If the site was costing him more money than what was coming in every month then he wouldn't keep it running, or he would find other ways to monetize it.

The business model of Drummerworld is to create a high quality site that gets loads of targeted traffic, then sell advertising to profit. The users of Drummerworld are actually the customers, since without users, no one would want to buy any advertising.

I read a lot of posts from members saying that Bernhard is just doing this on his own time, out of the kindness of his heart. I don't know the exact reasons why he is doing this, but just looking and analyzing the site, I think it is to make money. Just count the ads on every page and you can clearly see that he is pushing to get clicks.

There are also members pushing other members to donate to the site to 'help out'. I think it's great if you would like to help Drummerworld out by donating, but your donation isn't necessarily needed to keep the site running.

I have been doing internet marketing for some time now, and I know what a site like this costs, and what it would bring in on a monthly basis in ad revenue. Without knowing exact numbers I can only guess. I would guess that this site brings in $10,000 - $15,000 per month in advertising revenue. To run the site would cost at the most $5000. If Bernhard is paying more than that then he should look for a different server company or alternative video hosting solutions.

There is also the option of streaming all his videos on Youtube channel for viewers to watch as that is 100% free, plus he would get new users who browse Youtube, find his videos, and come to his site.

Right now Drummerworld is an amazing site which would lose most of its members if the content was limited to a monthly/annually payment or a login. I myself wouldn't pay anything to use this site, just like I won't pay to use Facebook, Myspace, or Youtube. Those sites started as free resources with the business model to sell advertising to make a profit, which they are doing.

Like I said earlier, I have been a user for some time now and enjoy the site. None of my comments were made to offend anyone. I just wanted to finally join in on the discussion. Thanks.

drumhead61 · #53 07-03-2009, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrummerDrummer

First of all, I love DrummerWorld and have been a user for years, and a forum lurker for a long time as well. I love this site and think it's great that Bernhard has worked so hard in providing us with quality exclusive information on our favorite drummers.

That said, I know that this is a business for Bernhard. If there was no money to be made, he wouldn't be doing it. If the site was costing him more money than what was coming in every month then he wouldn't keep it running, or he would find other ways to monetize it.

The business model of Drummerworld is to create a high quality site that gets loads of targeted traffic, then sell advertising to profit. The users of Drummerworld are actually the customers, since without users, no one would want to buy any advertising.

I read a lot of posts from members saying that Bernhard is just doing this on his own time, out of the kindness of his heart. I don't know the exact reasons why he is doing this, but just looking and analyzing the site, I think it is to make money. Just count the ads on every page and you can clearly see that he is pushing to get clicks.

There are also members pushing other members to donate to the site to 'help out'. I think it's great if you would like to help Drummerworld out by donating, but your donation isn't necessarily needed to keep the site running.

I have been doing internet marketing for some time now, and I know what a site like this costs, and what it would bring in on a monthly basis in ad revenue. Without knowing exact numbers I can only guess. I would guess that this site brings in $10,000 - $15,000 per month in advertising revenue. To run the site would cost at the most $5000. If Bernhard is paying more than that then he should look for a different server company or alternative video hosting solutions.

There is also the option of streaming all his videos on Youtube channel for viewers to watch as that is 100% free, plus he would get new users who browse Youtube, find his videos, and come to his site.

Right now Drummerworld is an amazing site which would lose most of its members if the content was limited to a monthly/annually payment or a login. I myself wouldn't pay anything to use this site, just like I won't pay to use Facebook, Myspace, or Youtube. Those sites started as free resources with the business model to sell advertising to make a profit, which they are doing.

Like I said earlier, I have been a user for some time now and enjoy the site. None of my comments were made to offend anyone. I just wanted to finally join in on the discussion. Thanks.

Welcome after years of Lurking you have officially come into the pool! I do not find your post offensive in any way it is what we all know is going on...you just have a more informed scoop coming from the internet marketing side and that is great!

eddiehimself · #54 07-03-2009, 07:12 PM

I would have to agree with DrummerDrummer in this case. Advertising gives forums their revenues, that's how they work. So far i have never stumbled across a forum that requires it's members to pay and i think there's a good reason for that which is that forums no matter how good they are, simply aren't pay sites. Just like you don't have to pay to use facebook or MSN even. If you want to help out DW then just click on one of the advertising links every time you come on the computer. That's how this site works.

bobdadruma · #55 07-05-2009, 11:03 PM

If DW began to charge its members for access, DW would no longer be a "Public Site". That would change everything! It would become a private "Good Ole Boys Club" so to speak. I think that in the long run that would be a mistake! DW is the way that it is because it attracts people to it by its unique make up of guests,viewers, and members. I like the fact that it has rules that are strictly enforced and moderated. (Even though we all push the limits of these rules sometimes! Myself included! LOL!) If this was a pay site and a member who had made large contributions began to break the rules, would there be a leniency towards his/her behavior because of large contributions that he/she had made to the site? I'm sure that this would become a factor or at least a topic of discussion either by members or staff when it became necessary to dicepline or banish someone for breaking the rules. I think that DW should stay just the way that it is for as long as it can. Making DW a pay site would only degrade it in the long term.

Bernhard · #56 07-06-2009, 02:56 PM

Thanks for all of your suggestions and advise...

First of All:

DRUMMERWORLD WEBSITE AND DRUMMERWORLD FORUM WILL STAY FREE OF CHARGE.

This was never put in question here from my side!

I came to the conclusion, that webcontent must be financed by advertising. Charging for Forums or Webcontent is probably a wrong concept and a sign of a general misunderstanding of what's going on here on the web now and in the near future.

So this:
There seems to be a confusion in terms between the Drummerworld Website and Drummerworld Forum.

The Drummerworld Forum is very active, but generates only 1.8% of the whole traffic volume of Drummerworld - which is 25 terabytes a month actually.

DrummerDrummer wrote:
I know that this is a business for Bernhard. If there was no money to be made, he wouldn't be doing it

Well this hurts, because it's completely wrong. When i started Drummerworld ten years ago nobody could know, that it gets to the No.1 place and stays there now for ten years. It started as a joke - got serious - and after have finished my 35 year business life as broker i sold all my business to good hands and do this Drummerworld thing just for fun as a hobby.

Of course now there are possibilities to earn money with Google ads and also Banner Ads in direct sale. But these numbers are not increasing and compared to my former activities: this is a very small business!!!

All in all: Running two servers in N.Y. - 25 terabites of traffic a month and keep it smooth running all the time (..watch the speed) is not so cheap as one might think.

When i do calculations now - and not counting my own manpower time - then the difference between invested money and cash back would give a real nice estate with swimming pool in Spain and some very nice luxury cars. So lucky me i need no more as i already have....

Streaming the Videos with YouTube would for sure be a very cheap and easy solution, but A NO GO for a serious website to keep independence like Drummerworld. By the way: Many of very exclusive clips would be removed from YouTube immediatly.

"I don't think I would pay right now because I don't use the site very much"
- This is friend IronCobra - 2157 Posts!!!

I would invite more people to join the DrummerWorld Community. As matter of fact, I do it actually and passing the word around.
- Thanks Ian, but please not, we don't look for more traffic or members....even when we are the only website in the world saying this: I really mean it!!!!

The Forum is moderated by Dog and Nutha: Thanks a lot guys!!!

The Website is done by myself alone. The only motivation was my love for drums and the wish to show the masters of this wonderful instrument to younger drummers to give motivation to them too. A nice sideeffect for me is of course the chance to meet so many great people all over the world with my travels.
Hopefully we can stay with it for some more time. When medical heart problems come up again or motivation leaves:
Gone for ever as everything just one click away....

Bernhard

trout · #57 07-06-2009, 04:16 PM

So many people don't understand about news on the web. Here in Australia, all the major newspapers jumped in and said: "OK - the web! Let's put our news online!" Then later, they found out that they were giving away what they had previously sold - for free. So the good writers get the sack; everything is hack pieces - now, now,now. No real depth to the sories and is that a surprise?

Would I pay for Drummerworld? Well yes - if the price was right - I would. I pay for iTunes. Everybody said that Jobs was crazy - but he put a reasonable price on a valuable resource and people pay it. And Apple do it to sell iPods - not music.

Thanks Bernhard. I love what you have done and I would like to see it continue.

Ian Williams · #58 07-07-2009, 06:19 AM

Thanks for your input Bernhard. Very meaningful and profound words, regarding the essence of drums. I will stick to your request and I wish You peace, prosperity and health.

All The Best,

DogBreath · #59 07-07-2009, 09:03 AM

I guess no matter how many times we say it, uninformed people like DrummerDrummer will continue to have the wrong idea. So be it.

The main DrummerWorld site and the forum are labors of love. Period. Bernhard set them up that way, as a gift to educate and inspire, and Jason and I knew the score when we signed on to assist. It is currently the longest running gig that I have ever had, and I wouldn't trade my non-existent paycheck for anything. Bernhard is a true friend and a gentleman, and it is an honor to be on his team.

bobdadruma · #60 07-08-2009, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DogBreath

I guess no matter how many times we say it, uninformed people like DrummerDrummer will continue to have the wrong idea. So be it.

The main DrummerWorld site and the forum are labors of love. Period. Bernhard set them up that way, as a gift to educate and inspire, and Jason and I knew the score when we signed on to assist. It is currently the longest running gig that I have ever had, and I wouldn't trade my non-existent paycheck for anything. Bernhard is a true friend and a gentleman, and it is an honor to be on his team.

When I first stumbled upon DRUMMERWORLD, My first impression was exactly this. DW is Bernhard's labor of love! I realized that DW was a special place on the web that was not driven by profit goals. The fact that DW is like it is, Is the very thing that makes DW so great!
Bernhard is our friend! Bernhard is not a businessman who is trying to make money from a website. I don't know how or where some members got that idea, Or any other impression! I have never felt that way! DW is for us! And solely for us! I know in my heart that that's the way that Bernhard wants it to be.
We have also seen this very same sediment expressed from Bernhard many times. Both Dogbreath and Jason do a fine job of administrating Bernhards goals!

Ian Williams · #61 07-08-2009, 03:13 AM

Something that I really admire from people, it is their commitment - devotion - what they believe in and You have got that: Bernhard / DogBreath / Jason.

specgrade · #62 10-23-2009, 12:47 AM

"I would invite more people to join the DrummerWorld Community. As matter of fact, I do it actually and passing the word around.
- Thanks Ian, but please not, we don't look for more traffic or members....even when we are the only website in the world saying this: I really mean it!!!!"

Being a new member, I'm really not sure how to take this. If you don't want anymore new members just close down the registration part and carry on with who you have already. You can delete my account and I'll move on. No prob Bob.

As I see it, if I were out of work, DW would be last place I would be. I'd be looking for a job.

Would I pay to play? Maybe....

Um okay I just noticed how old this thread is....oh well.

thtst · #63 10-23-2009, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD

I know it isn't much but I would pay 25.00 or 30.00 USD a year to help along the way. So participate if you wish. I'm just curious. Thanks.

IMHO if there is a free alternative (usually ad driven for revenue) the pay for site is doomed or at least will suffer a major downturn in users, thus lowering their revenue and as such being less attractive for advertisers due to less unique visitors.

JMHO, DYOD.

Cedwico · #64 11-08-2009, 01:31 AM

If my mum would give me the money, then sure I would. If I was older and in work then I would also!

RhythmDrums · #65 11-08-2009, 11:29 AM

I would maybe pay 20$ max a year because of all the things i learn on this forum, but i dont think it would be good for the forum. I think alot of people would go to other free drum forums since there are quiet a few.

Vipercussionist · #66 11-08-2009, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD

I was reading a few days ago that several free websites were thinking of starting to charge fees for registered users. There are a bunch that have been doing it for a while now. Some of these are for server space for such things as photos, document backup etc. With that in mind and absolutely no prodding from Bernhard, Jason, or Thomas I was wondering what YOU, the members, would be willing to pay to be a member of this site. I realize that many of you are young, students, etc., and you may answer if you wish or choose to opt of of this question as you see fit. I'm just looking for an idea. I know it isn't much but I would pay 25.00 or 30.00 USD a year to help along the way. So participate if you wish. I'm just curious. Thanks.

No, I wouldn't pay to use a forum. Bart Elliot charges for his site now and I simply won't bother with it anymore.
I don't mind paying if there's a way to DONATE, but for it to be MANDATORY, I don't like that scenario.

sabian92 · #67 11-11-2009, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chazz

I already have, there is the donation button on the "DrummerWorld main page",
which I thought everyone here would have already done?

Best,
Chazz

Why would you think that? Like another member said, not everybody is exactly made of money. I don't have a house/family etc, but I'm a struggling unemployed student and that's probably worse. I saved for years for my kit now, I can't afford to drop £25 on donating to a website I can use for free (not that I'm cheap or anything, I have keep a serious eye on my finances).

Sirwill · #68 11-14-2009, 02:15 AM

I feel that one of the greatest things about the Internet is finding a great site. Its even better when its within your interest. If you look at the best sites ever created they are all free. I hope that in time the Internet does not become like TV and radio were the listener/supporter is interrupted with commercials. If you need revenue get a sponsor.

donv · #69 11-14-2009, 07:17 AM

I didn't know until yesterday that you could donate to DW when I first saw this thread. I hadn't ever even read anything in DrummerWorld Site News so I hadn't seen this before either.

Anyway I wrote to Bernhard with this idea today--I haven't heard back from him yet. After reading what all so many people here had to offer to Leo in Cuba, it seemed that a lot of us have a lot stuff sitting around that isn't being used. How would everyone feel about auctioning some of our stuff off here? The buyer could pay Bernhard directly through the donate button, and when payment is verified we could ship the item to the buyer. That way the buyer is getting something more then site participation, and the sellers would be doing something more the participating to support Bernhard and DW.

If anyone is interested, I'll start with a like new 12" Paiste Alpha Power Splash. It's in excellent condition. The terms of how long something would be up for auction will have to be determined by consensus, and I suppose international bids would be unreasonable, but I think it's an auction is good option to help support Bernhard where everyone makes out.

What do you think?