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  #1  
Old 10-07-2009, 07:21 AM
Concrete Pete Concrete Pete is offline
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Default Gibraltar double Bass Pedal upgrade

Hey Crew,

Thought I'd share this, as it was a big improvement for my Gibraltar double bass pedal--

I noticed a kinda "sloppy" flop at the union where the two pedals control the beater rods, (where the two twin bearings meet at the 4-screw clamp) thought it was due to age (of the pedal-not ME!) and took it all apart. What was happening was that I'd step on the right pedal, and it would draw the left beater in towards the right one, and vice-versa. Hmm...

After complete disassembly of the whole unit, I discovered that the bearings in the right pedal frame (the one that clamps on the bass drum) had a weird thing going on--- the pivot bearings were good, but the outer part of the arm had BUSHINGS instead of BEARINGS on the spring cam sides-- LOTS of freeplay. I took out the bushings and bearings, installed the "nippled/cone" type of bearings on the inside, and put the regular bearing on the outside, just before the spring cams. Found out that the allen wrenches needed to loosen the keepers were METRIC!?!?! (go figure-- it's made in USA, as far as I know)

The result is so phenominal that I can't even remotely describe the increased fluidity, the WAY faster action, and how much more solid the responsiveness and pedal speed is. I used Harley-Davidson 90wt gear lube when packing the bearings, and I think I might be on my way to catching up to getting nearer to doing a George Kollias 180 BPM after a long time using this new set-up.

So, now my horizontal rods have DOUBLE bearings each side-- do the newer pedals already have those, or do they do the bearing/bushing thing, too? I'm real curious.

Rock forever,
C. P.

Last edited by Concrete Pete; 10-07-2009 at 07:38 AM.
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  #2  
Old 10-08-2009, 02:38 PM
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Fiery Fiery is offline
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Default Re: Gibraltar double Bass Pedal upgrade

Some pictures please. It's hard to tell what the pedal looks like and what you've done from text alone.
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  #3  
Old 10-08-2009, 07:02 PM
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dairyairman dairyairman is offline
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Default Re: Gibraltar double Bass Pedal upgrade

that's a good question. i'm not sure how to tell what type of bearings my pedals have. i know the best pedals have sealed bearings everywhere, like at the hinge where the pedal board connects to the base plate, and where the spring connects to the level arm. having precision, sealed bearings makes a big difference.
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  #4  
Old 10-12-2009, 05:56 AM
Concrete Pete Concrete Pete is offline
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Default Re: Gibraltar double Bass Pedal upgrade--PICS

Hey Crew,

I took a few pics tonight, and it'll hopefully help explain what I did improvements-wise.

Here ya go-

Pic #1--The point of the knife blade is at the center of where the bearing was on the inside (left) and the bushing was on the right.

Pic #2--Same sitch, except the bearing was on the right side of the pivot point, and the bushing was on the left. (outside)

Pic # 3--My finger pointing to where I THOUGHT the sloppy action was coming from--wher the dual (factory) side-by-side bearings meet between the two drive shafts.

Pic #4--The cheezy "bushings" (more like spacer collars) that were placed where the new bearings were added.

Pic #5--The slave pedal outer bearing/bushing race (or journal) where I did NOT have to do anything to better the action and response-- they were tight and had no play.

Hope this helps out others, as the second set of bearings are the difference between night and day for me!

Cheers,
C. P.
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  #5  
Old 10-23-2009, 02:17 PM
drumhammerer drumhammerer is offline
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Default Re: Gibraltar double Bass Pedal upgrade

those are some old pedals! Are you an engineer or something? I would've just bought another pedal instead of messing with the innards like that. I never even knew there were different types of bearings in these things.

BTW all of Gibraltar's hardware is made in Taiwan, hence the metric screws. I've got the latest version of this double pedal with the weird looking slotted foot boards.
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  #6  
Old 10-24-2009, 07:17 PM
Concrete Pete Concrete Pete is offline
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Default Re: Gibraltar double Bass Pedal upgrade

Hey DH,

Yeah they are kinda old!
I think someone here pointed out they're from the 80's or 90's. I gotta tell ya though, they are rock-steady solid, and have very, VERY fast action now.

I tend to like old stuff--guess I'm a nostalgia freak!
Heck, some of the best stuff I have is from the past--Both my Harley's are "Classic" years, one is a 1969, and the other a 1972--my FIRST Hawg with an ELECTRIC STARTER! (woohoo)

As a matter of fact, I was an engineer- ("A" license) but I have a "B" license now. (General Contractor) I make way better money with the B license.

I think I suffer from "Tim Taylor/Tool Time" syndrome, as I constantly look for ways to improve on original designs on just about everything, even down to gunsmithing.

Cheers,
C. P.
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  #7  
Old 10-25-2009, 07:11 AM
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BassDriver BassDriver is offline
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Default Re: Gibraltar double Bass Pedal upgrade

Quote:
I took out the bushings and bearings, installed the "nippled/cone" type of bearings on the inside, and put the regular bearing on the outside, just before the spring cams. Found out that the allen wrenches needed to loosen the keepers were METRIC!?!?! (go figure-- it's made in USA, as far as I know)
Question: How did you get the nippled/cone bearings?

Three things I've noticed about my pedals lag (it is an Iron Cobra Jnr.).
  1. My left pedal also has bushings (packed with grease of course) on either end of the driveshaft connections (i.e. double friction causes left pedal lag) (need your help with this issue).
  2. The driveshaft for left pedal has faulty universal joints (I can research a solution).
  3. My right pedal also has bushings (means it has still has more smoothness than the left).

How would I get nippled/cone bearings and fix these things?
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Last edited by BassDriver; 10-25-2009 at 07:12 AM. Reason: spelling error
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  #8  
Old 10-25-2009, 11:36 AM
Concrete Pete Concrete Pete is offline
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Default Re: Gibraltar double Bass Pedal upgrade

Hey BD,

I took the Nippled bearings out of either a spare Sonor or possibly a spare Legion pedal I stripped parts off of for salvage. Yeah, legion is crap quailty, but the bearings were USA made.

Lose the exterior bushings and toss them. Buy replacement bearings and pack them in with Lithium (or better) grease. Even if the new outer bearings stick out of the U-frame a bit, no problem, as long as there's a set screw or something to secure them.

I doubt the u-joints are "bad". Unless they clunk and rattle, or the action between the joints travels significantly than the shaft(s) pick up the movement. If they are trash, replacement parts are probably available. And if not, scavenging a used one might come cheap.

Hope this helps you out. If not, feel free to ask--if I can't help, there's a lot of VERY knowledgeable, experienced people here.

Cheers,
Pete
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  #9  
Old 10-25-2009, 12:24 PM
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BassDriver BassDriver is offline
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Default Re: Gibraltar double Bass Pedal upgrade

Quote:
Hope this helps you out. If not, feel free to ask--if I can't help, there's a lot of VERY knowledgeable, experienced people here.
A part of repairing the pedal is knowing what the problem is, I found the real problem.

Since I checked the bearings after oiling them I noticed they had a very smooth un-interrupted motion (with-out the drive-shaft attached), attach the driveshaft and at the peak of the beaters swing the drive-shaft and cam will jolt (as if someone tapped the uni-joint).

When my left pedal springs back up and springs back past it's set point (the point where the beater is still) there is a jolt felt through the cam and footboard, in order to strike again the beater has to go past this point and this is lagging my strike and "swinging" my ryhthym (like playing swing jazz ride pattern). Actually the driveshaft will twist (not in the way designed but because the un-adjustable pin axles are too loose).

Another test is pushing the beater still against the bass head and actually being able to move the cam back and forth (with quite some rattling movement).

I'm sure pulling apart another pedal for its smooth bearings is useless and insignificant with my already crap pedal, considering the Tama Cobra Jnr. is roughly 200 AUD.

So my solution is getting an Axis UDS (universal drive shaft, designed for other pedals) to replace the current one, I have seen this done on youtube (with a real Iron Cobra) and the decription described it as making it "90 percent better", that's good enough for me (plus the joint pin axles are adjustable in tight-ness).

Right pedal is quite fine, beater attached to the cam on the axle which is moved by the foot on footboard, works well because of its simplicity.

For the remaining error after fixing the drive-shaft problem, all slave pedals are like that (they always carry more weight, an extended axle is a weight), nothing I can do about that, I guess one learns from combating adversity before moving onto the good pro series pedals.

...but, still a great pedal improvement idea by you.
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Last edited by BassDriver; 10-25-2009 at 12:24 PM. Reason: spelling error
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  #10  
Old 10-26-2009, 01:25 PM
drumhammerer drumhammerer is offline
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Default Re: Gibraltar double Bass Pedal upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by Concrete Pete View Post
Hey DH,

Yeah they are kinda old!
I think someone here pointed out they're from the 80's or 90's. I gotta tell ya though, they are rock-steady solid, and have very, VERY fast action now.

I tend to like old stuff--guess I'm a nostalgia freak!
Heck, some of the best stuff I have is from the past--Both my Harley's are "Classic" years, one is a 1969, and the other a 1972--my FIRST Hawg with an ELECTRIC STARTER! (woohoo)

As a matter of fact, I was an engineer- ("A" license) but I have a "B" license now. (General Contractor) I make way better money with the B license.

I think I suffer from "Tim Taylor/Tool Time" syndrome, as I constantly look for ways to improve on original designs on just about everything, even down to gunsmithing.

Cheers,
C. P.
Don't get me wrong, I love vintage drums. I have 2 Ludwig kits, and they're both from the 70's, and sound great. With some older pedals and hardware however, you may have alot of wear to the point that they're irrepairable. Specifically with things like the pot metal wearing out on the connections, or screws stripping in the housings. But, if you've got something older that you can keep running efficiently, or have the skills to make it better, then more power to ya.
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