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  #1  
Old 09-12-2009, 05:07 AM
teamstevo teamstevo is offline
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Default heads for concert toms

I have 5 rack toms that are concert toms with no resonate heads. I was wondering what people recommend for these kind of toms.
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  #2  
Old 09-14-2009, 02:21 AM
teamstevo teamstevo is offline
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Default Re: heads for concert toms

nobody has any old school ludwig concert toms? I bought them and they had remo pinstripes on there, but they are all torn so I was wondering if anybody has tried anything else.
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  #3  
Old 09-14-2009, 04:37 AM
wy yung wy yung is offline
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Default Re: heads for concert toms

This is a silly question and is why nobody but I bothered with it. Any head will do. It depends what you want. Try black dots.
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  #4  
Old 09-14-2009, 07:49 AM
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Default Re: heads for concert toms

It's a matter of personal taste. I don't like dead-sounding toms so I'd get clear single-plys, to resonate as much as possible. Your preferred sound may differ, & so then would your choice.
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  #5  
Old 09-14-2009, 03:32 PM
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bermuda bermuda is offline
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Default Re: heads for concert toms

The purpose of concert toms in pop/rock is to provide an intimate sound with attack. No sweet tones and decay here, that's for double-headed toms.

Different heads will yield different results, and it's strictly a matter of preference. It's best to start with batters that you already like on your regular toms, and the open bottom on the concert toms will give you a drier, louder version of what you already like.

For wood drums:

If mic'd, for punch, try a 2-ply head. For more attack & 'stick' try a single ply clear head (if you're not a hard hitter.) Either way, I suggest damping each tom for the classic sound of the '70s, the era in which concert toms rose and fell in popularity.

If you're not mic'd, I'd go with a single-ply head, no damping. To someone sitting several feet from the kit, the toms will sound sufficiently dry, but if they're damped, they'll sound way too dead.

For stainless:

Since those are really bangy shells to begin with, I'd opt for a mellower head. Evans Hydraulics tame those nicely, whereas a 1-ply clear head would be too bangy.


For fiberglass (a la Stingray and older Pearl toms):

Those are more like boat fiberglass... a 2-ply will work well on those.

For acrylic and fiberglass (a la Impact & Tempus):

They're more resonant and closer to wood (see above.)

Good luck!

Bermuda
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  #6  
Old 09-15-2009, 03:40 AM
teamstevo teamstevo is offline
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Default Re: heads for concert toms

thanks I appreciate the feedback Bermuda.
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  #7  
Old 09-15-2009, 07:48 AM
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Default Re: heads for concert toms

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Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
The purpose of concert toms in pop/rock is to provide an intimate sound with attack. No sweet tones and decay here, that's for double-headed toms.
Intimate? OK? Right on about the lack of decay and overtones.


Quote:
Different heads will yield different results, and it's strictly a matter of preference. It's best to start with batters that you already like on your regular toms, and the open bottom on the concert toms will give you a drier, louder version of what you already like.
Yes, louder - we don't realize how much the bottom head mutes a drum. It acts as a trap to stop the air flowing out of the drum.

Quote:

For wood drums:

If mic'd, for punch, try a 2-ply head. For more attack & 'stick' try a single ply clear head (if you're not a hard hitter.) Either way, I suggest damping each tom for the classic sound of the '70s, the era in which concert toms rose and fell in popularity.

If you're not mic'd, I'd go with a single-ply head, no damping. To someone sitting several feet from the kit, the toms will sound sufficiently dry, but if they're damped, they'll sound way too dead.

For stainless:

Since those are really bangy shells to begin with, I'd opt for a mellower head. Evans Hydraulics tame those nicely, whereas a 1-ply clear head would be too bangy.


For fiberglass (a la Stingray and older Pearl toms):

Those are more like boat fiberglass... a 2-ply will work well on those.

For acrylic and fiberglass (a la Impact & Tempus):

They're more resonant and closer to wood (see above.)

Good luck!

Bermuda
Your knowledge astounds me, Bermuda! My reply was going to be, "Well, the black dot heads were really designed for these type of drums, so you may want to start there." I had forgot about all of the different shell types those drums were made of.

Just for reference, you may want to take a listen to Billy Joel's Glass Houses record. I believe Liberty DeVito used these (Tama wood shell) concert toms on that album. I think he preferred having the mics on top of the toms (as opposed to one inside of each drum) and may have used some muffling.

Just the disussion takes me back to the days of high school where one of my fellow drummers had a Pearl set with concert toms, the BIG ones.



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  #8  
Old 09-15-2009, 08:45 AM
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Default Re: heads for concert toms

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Originally Posted by Skitch View Post
Intimate? OK? ..
Your knowledge astounds me, Bermuda! My reply was going to be, "Well, the black dot heads were really designed for these type of drums, so you may want to start there."
By intimate, I mean right up front and very present. Putting the mics right up into the bottom of the drum was a favorite technique in the studio at the height of their popularity... no room sound or 'air' allowed.

Ironically, it's the black/silver dot heads that accentuated the attack even more on single-headed drums. Where a ring or moongel at the edge of a head reduces the highs, a patch in the middle reduces the fundamental note and heightens the attack. The dot heads inherently seemed louder, and on concert toms, could get pretty bang-y at times. They're probably the last heads I'd choose for a drum that tends to have that effect even when using plain heads. But that's the sound commonly associated with concert toms back in the day.

Head technology has changed a lot in 35+ years, and concert toms can now sound pretty cool with modern heads.

Bermuda
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  #9  
Old 09-16-2009, 07:39 AM
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Default Re: heads for concert toms

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Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
By intimate, I mean right up front and very present. Putting the mics right up into the bottom of the drum was a favorite technique in the studio at the height of their popularity... no room sound or 'air' allowed.
I wasn't sure what you meant by intimate.

Quote:
Ironically, it's the black/silver dot heads that accentuated the attack even more on single-headed drums. Where a ring or moongel at the edge of a head reduces the highs, a patch in the middle reduces the fundamental note and heightens the attack. The dot heads inherently seemed louder, and on concert toms, could get pretty bang-y at times. They're probably the last heads I'd choose for a drum that tends to have that effect even when using plain heads. But that's the sound commonly associated with concert toms back in the day.

Head technology has changed a lot in 35+ years, and concert toms can now sound pretty cool with modern heads.

Bermuda
I remember seeing all of the catalogs (I still have a few) with the concert toms in them. The black dots were always on those in the Tama and Yamaha catalogs.



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  #10  
Old 09-16-2009, 05:11 PM
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Default Re: heads for concert toms

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Originally Posted by Skitch View Post
I remember seeing all of the catalogs (I still have a few) with the concert toms in them. The black dots were always on those in the Tama and Yamaha catalogs.
And that classic set-up is responsible for the typical concert tom sound that most drummers still cringe at! It's Evans's and Remo's improved heads - and the introduction of Aquarian 20 years ago - that make concert toms (and stainless and acrylic drums) viable today, sounding better than they ever could in their orginal heyday.

I'm looking forward to a set of concert toms soon! :)

Bermuda
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  #11  
Old 09-17-2009, 05:25 AM
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Default Re: heads for concert toms

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
And that classic set-up is responsible for the typical concert tom sound that most drummers still cringe at! It's Evans's and Remo's improved heads - and the introduction of Aquarian 20 years ago - that make concert toms (and stainless and acrylic drums) viable today, sounding better than they ever could in their orginal heyday.

I'm looking forward to a set of concert toms soon! :)

Bermuda
Really?


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  #12  
Old 09-17-2009, 08:11 AM
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Default Re: heads for concert toms

Really!


202020really!!
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  #13  
Old 09-19-2009, 09:04 PM
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intheruff intheruff is offline
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Default Re: heads for concert toms

"Head technology has changed a lot in 35+ years, and concert toms can now sound pretty cool with modern heads"

SO SO TRUE! The drums I use for gigs are 1981 Tama Imperial Stars... concert shells of course. Up until a few years ago I used Remo pin stripes. Before that Black Dots were the head of choice. Now I'm using Evan hydraulics (black) and it seems there just ain't no comparison. The heads almost never need tuning and they produce a nice attack yet sound full, deep and thumpy. There's even a slight decay of the note more notable with shells configured for a resonant head. When it's necessary to mic the toms I commonly use two overhead condensers (easier and less time then micing each drum) that easily pick up the solid deep tones those concert shells are capable of.
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  #14  
Old 09-19-2009, 11:06 PM
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Default Re: heads for concert toms

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Originally Posted by intheruff View Post
Now I'm using Evan hydraulics (black) and it seems there just ain't no comparison. The heads almost never need tuning and they produce a nice attack yet sound full, deep and thumpy.
It's worth noting that the new Hydraulics have more life than the old ones we grew up with in the '70s, they're nowhere near as dead as they used to be. I'm not sure if it's less oil or maybe thinner plies, but it's been a change for the better.

Bermuda
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  #15  
Old 09-22-2009, 07:45 AM
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Default Re: heads for concert toms

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
It's worth noting that the new Hydraulics have more life than the old ones we grew up with in the '70s, they're nowhere near as dead as they used to be. I'm not sure if it's less oil or maybe thinner plies, but it's been a change for the better.

Bermuda
I think is the lack of that white ceramic collar. I used these on my Ludwigs for a while! Took a lot of effort to get the old ones off the drum! This was one of the great improvements that Bob Gatzen made in the Evans line and helped them make a comeback in the early 1990s.

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