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  #1  
Old 08-28-2009, 06:47 PM
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Default Coated reso heads?

I had the crazy idea of using 1ply coated batter heads as resonant heads. I mean, as far as Evans go, the G1 Clear Batter, G1 Coated Batter and G1 Clear Resonant are all single ply 10mm heads. So it wouldn't be that bad... right?
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  #2  
Old 08-28-2009, 07:01 PM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

It'll give you a slightly warmer sound. I'm using coated Ambs (same mil as the G1s) and am digging the sound. What are you using for batters? Have you considered the Genera Reso heads, they're both (G1 and Genera) 10 Mil.
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  #3  
Old 08-28-2009, 07:26 PM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

At the moment, I just have pinstripe heads. I'm getting a new set soon, but it might be a 6 piece Mapex Saturn or Pro M set (!), which is alot to buy two sets of heads for. I was just seeing if there was a way to have coated and pinstripe while skipping the "buy clear reso heads" step. Would save me a good $60ish.
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Old 08-28-2009, 08:29 PM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

Yeah, that may be an interesting sound. Defined stick attack with a solid sustain that carries some warmth. Damn it, now I want to go out and get new heads.

I'm using coated heads all around, but a the initial sound you can get out clear heads has had me tempted for a long time now. Problem is, I can't not use brushes when I play (love the swooshing sounds). If you do go with the coated resos, put up a sound file or vid or something, I wouldn't mind hearing that at all.
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  #5  
Old 08-28-2009, 08:48 PM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

Why not give it a try? If you don't like it you can get clear resos down the road. Might be a tad too dark/warm with pins, but you lose nothing by trying.

Bonham used to use coated Emperors on top and coated Ambassadors on the bottom, so you're in good company. Many jazzers have liked coated reso heads, too.
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  #6  
Old 08-28-2009, 09:11 PM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

I think it would complement the walnut/maple shell of a Saturn set quite nicely, personally. Alright, I'll give it a plunge. I'll put up a video of the difference in sounds too, but it'll be a while.

EDIT: Rather, I would think a warmer, deeper sustain would complete the tone the Saturns produce. And I found a similar topic already on these boards *oops* But in them I found this link: http://www.tothestage.com/MediaDetai...en&MediaId=774

Last edited by Moldy; 08-28-2009 at 09:50 PM.
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  #7  
Old 08-29-2009, 03:35 AM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

Benny Greb recently has been using Coated Emperors over Coated Ambassadors on his toms.

Here is something I typed up on an other forum about when I had to tech Benny's Force 3007 kit at his clinic here back in July. It was a FUN experience working side-by-side with Benny getting the kit setup and tuned to his liking.

Quote:
For the guys that wanted tips on Benny's sound...

He tunes up higher than you might think...MUCH higher. In a lot of his videos his drums sound very warm, resonant, deep, etc... Its because of the Coated Emperor over Coated Ambassador combination. The lack of bright overtones that can cause some boingy tones can are canceled out by the Coated Ambassadors as resonant heads.

Tuning the kit with Benny taught me something. He doesn't fuss like crazy about his tuning like we all talk about here. He gets a nice tight feel on the Coated Emperors for rebound, pitched to a medium-tight, then goes slightly higher up on the resonant heads. Not so close in pitch that would cause phase cancellation, but enough to create a decent pitch bend and resonance.

He doesn't worry about intervals between the top or bottom or between drum to drum.

Because he uses 10, 14, 16, he naturally gets great tonal separation. The 10 and 14 usually always end up sounding like a perfect octave apart. The 16 usually ends up a 3rd or 4th apart. Again, he doesn't worry about them, but this information was simply my observation.

I can't really give you tuning technique pointers or tips on how he did it. Like I said before...He doesn't fuss about it at all. The only thing he was really particular about was the snare. He took a 13x7 Special Edition which use Force 3007 shells. He tuned the snare side up, loosened the snares until almost rattle point, took the batter quite far down and used some tape on the batter. He gets a nice full bodied pop this way.

The setup on the snares were Coated Ambassadors over Ambassador Snare Sides.
Quote:
It isn't as dry as you might think. Benny Greb uses Coated Emperors over Coated Ambassadors with a killer full sound.

His last clinic here I had to put on his required heads on a Force 3007 kit. I tuned it up along side with Benny and the sound was killer. I actually just recently played that kit for a show because I couldn't get access to my Yamaha MCAN.

It is super full, warm, more resonant that most would think and the attack is wonderful.
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  #8  
Old 08-29-2009, 08:25 PM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PureRockFury View Post
Benny Greb recently has been using Coated Emperors over Coated Ambassadors on his toms.

Here is something I typed up on an other forum about when I had to tech Benny's Force 3007 kit at his clinic here back in July. It was a FUN experience working side-by-side with Benny getting the kit setup and tuned to his liking.
I have a Force 3007 kit and this just made me completely rethink what I might get as heads.

I was originally going to get Coated over clear Ambassadors but now I'm not so sure......
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  #9  
Old 09-03-2009, 10:42 PM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

Sorry for the double post but does anyone have any sound clips of coated vs. clear resonant heads?

I just got a bigger paycheck than I normally do and I'm thinking I'll try and put it to good use and replace the stock heads on my new kit before something else arises and I'm forced to spend it in a place I probably don't want to. :P
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  #10  
Old 09-04-2009, 03:28 AM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

Huh, I'll have to try that out. With G2s over G1s, though. Thanks RockFury.
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  #11  
Old 09-04-2009, 04:12 AM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

My question is if I do the coated over coated heads then should I do the 2-ply or 1-ply heads as batters?

Hmm...
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  #12  
Old 09-04-2009, 04:44 PM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos_Inferno View Post
My question is if I do the coated over coated heads then should I do the 2-ply or 1-ply heads as batters?

Hmm...
In most cases you don't want to use 2-plies as resos unless you want to kill the sound of the drum.
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  #13  
Old 09-05-2009, 02:24 AM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

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Originally Posted by drumtechdad View Post
In most cases you don't want to use 2-plies as resos unless you want to kill the sound of the drum.
Oh I know I meant that if I use coated ambassadors as resos, would I put Emperors or Ambassadors as my batter head?

I'm thinking Ambassadors.
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  #14  
Old 09-05-2009, 03:22 PM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos_Inferno View Post
Oh I know I meant that if I use coated ambassadors as resos, would I put Emperors or Ambassadors as my batter head?

I'm thinking Ambassadors.
Why not try one of each on the same drum, say, a 12" tom? It's impossible to predict which you'll like.
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  #15  
Old 09-05-2009, 07:42 PM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drumtechdad View Post
Why not try one of each on the same drum, say, a 12" tom? It's impossible to predict which you'll like.
Even from hearing sound samples and playing on Ebony Ambassadors like the kit has at our school (I played with 2-ply heads on my last two re-skins) I'm nearly certain I'll go with Ambassadors and like them better.

I just feel like I've always been confused in the past as to the terms referring to the sound of a drum and its head combination, dark/bright, warmer etc. I'm pretty sure how I describe the sound I like now is warmer and brighter.... definitely less attack. I've loved Ambassadors every time I've played with them, and I'm almost certainly going with those.

I don't have any decent music stores that keep anything in stock like drum heads nearby... I do almost all of my shopping for things online except for maybe drumsticks. Ordering a set of heads for one drum would be almost too time consuming.

I'll be happy with Ambassadors over Ambassadors for sure, I'm just killing myself over the coated or clear reso decision.
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  #16  
Old 09-05-2009, 07:56 PM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

Nothing wrong at all using coated single ply heads as reso's, it will warm the drum up some. 2 ply reso's? never experimented with them but I use the G plus clear single ply 12 mill head and it makes for a slightly longer sustain, which I prefer over clear G1's or clear Ambassadors.
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  #17  
Old 09-07-2009, 01:10 AM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

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Originally Posted by larryace View Post
Nothing wrong at all using coated single ply heads as reso's, it will warm the drum up some. 2 ply reso's? never experimented with them but I use the G plus clear single ply 12 mill head and it makes for a slightly longer sustain, which I prefer over clear G1's or clear Ambassadors.
Would using a coated G Plus as a reso increase the sustain because of the thicker head and despite the fact the coating is frosty (I think) would it keep the drum warmer than if I had used clear resos?
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  #18  
Old 09-08-2009, 02:47 PM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos_Inferno View Post
Would using a coated G Plus as a reso increase the sustain because of the thicker head and despite the fact the coating is frosty (I think) would it keep the drum warmer than if I had used clear resos?
The G-plus definitely will increase sustain compared with 10mil resos--I do it myself on some drums. First though, try tuning both heads to the same pitch (if you don't already), that how you get the most sustain.

To my ear the Evans frosty coating just can't suck enough. At least as resos you wouldn't get that ultra-plasticky attack you get from using them as batters. But I don't find them to make the sound warmer compared to clears, just deader.
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  #19  
Old 09-08-2009, 09:21 PM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by drumtechdad View Post
The G-plus definitely will increase sustain compared with 10mil resos--I do it myself on some drums. First though, try tuning both heads to the same pitch (if you don't already), that how you get the most sustain.

To my ear the Evans frosty coating just can't suck enough. At least as resos you wouldn't get that ultra-plasticky attack you get from using them as batters. But I don't find them to make the sound warmer compared to clears, just deader.
I had coated EC2s on my last kit, and I agree with you about the coating.... Some people swear by the warmer sound of the coated ones even in comparison to the clear though.

I suppose it wouldn't hurt to have the coating on the bottom whether it warms the sound or not if it increases the sustain. I just have a new set of Sonor Force 3007s I haven't changed the stock heads off of yet and I'm looking for a good head combo. Actually even the stock heads sound pretty good to me.... But I want to pull out the potential of these babies. I love em.

So I'm thinking..... Coated Ambassadors over coated G Pluses, coated Powerstroke 3 and probably the ported resonant PS3 for the bass drum. Sounds like a winner to me.
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  #20  
Old 09-09-2009, 04:16 PM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

Hi All!
I've got a Sonor 3007 kit with clear EC2s batter and stock resos. Don't really
care for the sound. I have an Emad on the kick for batter. Love that. Warm and boomy.
My kit is a fusion. 10,12,14 and 20 kick. Also looking for a good head combo?
Anyone? I like a nice warm sound. My toms all sound flat and dead
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  #21  
Old 09-09-2009, 04:31 PM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos_Inferno View Post
Some people swear by the warmer sound of the coated ones even in comparison to the clear though.

I suppose it wouldn't hurt to have the coating on the bottom whether it warms the sound or not if it increases the sustain.
But . . . the frosty coating doesn't warm the sound to my ear. Just makes it deader. The usual white coatings do warm the sound up.
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  #22  
Old 09-09-2009, 04:44 PM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

I tried coated resos on toms and didn't hear much difference. That's probably because the coating is on the other side of the head where the sound waves - generated inside the shell - don't make direct contact with the coating. To affect the sound, the coating should be on the bottom of the reso head.

I do hear a difference with thin or thick resos but coating has no discernible impact on sustain.
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  #23  
Old 09-09-2009, 08:34 PM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

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Originally Posted by MadJazz View Post
I tried coated resos on toms and didn't hear much difference. That's probably because the coating is on the other side of the head where the sound waves - generated inside the shell - don't make direct contact with the coating. To affect the sound, the coating should be on the bottom of the reso head.

I do hear a difference with thin or thick resos but coating has no discernible impact on sustain.
I may not have any experience with trying this, but to me that sounds like you're implying I could put my hand on the resonant head from the outside and it should have no effect on the sustain....
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  #24  
Old 09-09-2009, 08:36 PM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

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Originally Posted by drumtechdad View Post
But . . . the frosty coating doesn't warm the sound to my ear. Just makes it deader. The usual white coatings do warm the sound up.
Alright, so now I'm down to

Coated Ambassadors over Clear G Pluses

OR

Coated Ambassadors over Coated Ambassadors.

I'm probably just gonna leave it almost entirely up to you guys. What's your take on it? I'll be happy with either sound.... What do most of you prefer?
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  #25  
Old 09-09-2009, 08:49 PM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

How about: get one clear G-plus and two coated ambassadors for just one drum, try them out and decide for yourself?
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  #26  
Old 09-09-2009, 09:15 PM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

I know you suggested that before but I don't really have the spare cash (yeah seriously I know, for a couple extra drum heads I might not use.... 16 years old + minimum wage blows lol) or a means of being able to get my hands on them in a timely manner. Having to order online just to wait and see if I like a combo and then having to order again shortly after once I decide probably would be more worth just going with my gut than the extra money/time.

Sounds stupid, I know. I've done my homework, played with different kits and different head combos before and I've narrowed it down to this much. I think I'm just going to double up on the Coated Ambassadors and stop changing my mind and wanting to experiment so much lol.
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  #27  
Old 09-09-2009, 11:08 PM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos_Inferno View Post
I know you suggested that before but I don't really have the spare cash (yeah seriously I know, for a couple extra drum heads I might not use.... 16 years old + minimum wage blows lol) or a means of being able to get my hands on them in a timely manner. Having to order online just to wait and see if I like a combo and then having to order again shortly after once I decide probably would be more worth just going with my gut than the extra money/time.

Sounds stupid, I know. I've done my homework, played with different kits and different head combos before and I've narrowed it down to this much. I think I'm just going to double up on the Coated Ambassadors and stop changing my mind and wanting to experiment so much lol.
Take your time man, experimenting costs money. And you're 16, so you've got a lot of years ahead of you to figure out and dial in your sound.
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  #28  
Old 09-09-2009, 11:57 PM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos_Inferno View Post
I may not have any experience with trying this, but to me that sounds like you're implying I could put my hand on the resonant head from the outside and it should have no effect on the sustain....
Don't believe it until you try it. The difference is so minimal it can be neglected. If not, you'd see a lot more coated resos.
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  #29  
Old 09-10-2009, 12:35 AM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

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Originally Posted by MadJazz View Post
Don't believe it until you try it. The difference is so minimal it can be neglected. If not, you'd see a lot more coated resos.
No harm in trying, right?

I've never heard too many popular recordings favoring a really warm tone drum with little attack without a triggered or electronic pad making the noise.... So just because you don't see it everywhere doesn't mean it's not true.
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  #30  
Old 09-11-2009, 01:08 AM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

Go with the Coated Ambassadors all around. It worked for decades with Buddy Rich and Louie Bellson on Slingerland, Rogers, Ludwig, and Remo kits. While Evans makes a high quality drumhead, I'd suggest Remos for that open, warm sound. In my experience Evans heads lose tone before physically wearing out and Remos physically wear out before losing tone. I've got Coated G1s on my Gretsch kit that could still pass for new on looks alone, but sound like paper after being on there for a year. The only coated heads that will noticeably restrict sustain are Aquarians which possess a very thick coating and are not too pleasant on the resonant side.
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  #31  
Old 09-11-2009, 04:39 AM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SBrochin View Post
Hi All!
I've got a Sonor 3007 kit with clear EC2s batter and stock resos. Don't really
care for the sound. I have an Emad on the kick for batter. Love that. Warm and boomy.
My kit is a fusion. 10,12,14 and 20 kick. Also looking for a good head combo?
Anyone? I like a nice warm sound. My toms all sound flat and dead
First of all, get some livelier heads for batter. EC2 is about as dead as you can go without using Hydraulics. I'd try some standard G2 or Emperors, coated preferably. Then, if you find them better than the EC2's, you can start experimenting with different reso's.
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  #32  
Old 09-11-2009, 07:21 PM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos_Inferno View Post

I'll be happy with Ambassadors over Ambassadors for sure, I'm just killing myself over the coated or clear reso decision.
If I were you, I would buy the coated ambassadors for both batter and reso heads: That way, if you don't like the sound, you could buy clear ambassadors for the resos, and save the extra coated ambassadors for your next batter head change...
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  #33  
Old 09-11-2009, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by caddywumpus View Post
If I were you, I would buy the coated ambassadors for both batter and reso heads: That way, if you don't like the sound, you could buy clear ambassadors for the resos, and save the extra coated ambassadors for your next batter head change...
How in the heck did I not think of this? lol

This is definitely the way to go then. Wow, I feel stupid for not thinking of it that way....
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  #34  
Old 09-11-2009, 09:05 PM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moldy View Post
I had the crazy idea of using 1ply coated batter heads as resonant heads. I mean, as far as Evans go, the G1 Clear Batter, G1 Coated Batter and G1 Clear Resonant are all single ply 10mm heads. So it wouldn't be that bad... right?

The sound difference is virtually undetectable. I've done quick changes of same-coated/clear on the same drum and didn't hear a big noticeable difference, batter or reso.
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  #35  
Old 09-17-2009, 05:37 AM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

Way back in 1970 or '71 or so I bought a couple of brand new Slingerland tom toms from a music store (he had to order them for me). They came with coated heads on top and bottom. I don't remember if they were Diplomat like or Ambassador like, one of the two.
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  #36  
Old 09-17-2009, 07:26 PM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

Well, it's not true that coating makes *no* difference in the sound produced. I mean, the coating, when adhered to the head, becomes one with the plastic, just like anything else that gets glued on. So when the head vibrates for a coated head, it's plastic plus whatever the coating is (more plastic?). Now whether that's a HUGE difference, or even a noticeable difference is up to interpretation.

I wanted to try some coated G1s for my batter heads anyway, and since I also have G2s and Pinstripes lying around... I'll try it out and get back to you guys (when I'm done building my drums).
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  #37  
Old 09-18-2009, 12:19 AM
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Default Re: Coated reso heads?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moldy View Post
Well, it's not true that coating makes *no* difference in the sound produced. I mean, the coating, when adhered to the head, becomes one with the plastic, just like anything else that gets glued on. So when the head vibrates for a coated head, it's plastic plus whatever the coating is (more plastic?). Now whether that's a HUGE difference, or even a noticeable difference is up to interpretation.

I wanted to try some coated G1s for my batter heads anyway, and since I also have G2s and Pinstripes lying around... I'll try it out and get back to you guys (when I'm done building my drums).

If you've got well used clears on your toms and change to new coated, you'll hear the difference. Once the coated's get played/stretched, the difference becomes less apparent.

You could easily blindfold test someone with coated and clear on the same drum, using the right tuning, they wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
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