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  #1  
Old 09-09-2009, 03:34 AM
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Default British Invasion 2.0

Well, tomorrow, The Beatles invade the US for the second time. Rockband, entire catalog remastered, CD's offered with T-Shirts. Here is Best Buys partial offering. And it may be announced, if a slip of the tongue, by Yoko Ono pans out that, iTunes will soon have the entire catalog available.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....questid=137718

what are your thoughts.
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Old 09-09-2009, 12:52 PM
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Default Re: British Invasion 2.0

My thoughts? Ignoring the commercialism - The Beatles material really needed a proper CD remaster. The '87 masters weren't really up to the job (although they're perfectly acceptable). What's funny is that this would've only have come about because of George and Giles Martin and the 'Love' soundtrack. Before they did the work on that, there was only one set of masters (!!!) and they had to back up the ENTIRE back catalogue onto modern formats. I believe that included most of the studio chatter as well.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar0...es/beatles.htm
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Old 09-09-2009, 06:36 PM
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Default Re: British Invasion 2.0

I'm actually rather excited about all the hype, because even though I'm too much of a teenager to be fully caught up in the nostalgia, I own a select few Beatles albums on an old crappy digital format, so the (probable) availability on iTunes will allow me to discover some of these songs for the first time.
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Old 09-10-2009, 12:17 AM
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Default Re: British Invasion 2.0

I just think it's such a coincidence that the remasters and the rockband game came out at the same time...
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Old 09-10-2009, 12:54 AM
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Default Re: British Invasion 2.0

It was no coincidence.
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Old 09-10-2009, 01:37 AM
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Default Re: British Invasion 2.0

While the band was amazing and so was their success, I must admit I find it sad that modern youg rock bands must still compete with this nostalgic, half a century old product.

Rock is a slow moving beast where nothing really changes. The result is what is now happening. Senior citizens and the dead getting revenue (again) that would be better off pushing the music forward.

Every time I see the Beatles or Led Zep mentioned on a web site I die just a little.
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Old 09-10-2009, 01:47 AM
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Default Re: British Invasion 2.0

I understand what you mean to some degree, but if you realize how much those two bands contributed to music and the aspirations of future musicians, I think it's great that the interest is still there, or there for a new generation. My son who is forty, is buying the stereo box set, and his only interest in the Beatles until now was a copy of their 1's I gave to him. I think it is amazing that he wants their complete catalog. It also proves that good music will stand the test of time. And just maybe it says something about the garbage, my opinion, that is out there now. They spent a lot of time putting their sound together and their producer was the best around at the time. I realize that musical taste is subjective but their record sales over the past 40 years just reinforces their popularity and the great music they produced.
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Old 09-10-2009, 01:53 AM
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Default Re: British Invasion 2.0

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I understand what you mean to some degree, but if you realize how much those two bands contributed to music and the aspirations of future musicians, I think it's great that the interest is still there, or there for a new generation. My son who is forty, is buying the stereo box set, and his only interest in the Beatles until now was a copy of their 1's I gave to him. I think it is amazing that he wants their complete catalog. It also proves that good music will stand the test of time. And just maybe it says something about the garbage, my opinion, that is out there now. They spent a lot of time putting their sound together and their producer was the best around at the time. I realize that musical taste is subjective but their record sales over the past 40 years just reinforces their popularity and the great music they produced.
Yeah mate I know, it's just so old......

I have no problem with that. I mean I've read Tolstoy and Seneca. Listened to Louis Armstrong and Artie Shaw. But none of those artsts are in actual competition with the artists of today. All it shows to me is the incredibly limited scope rock music has been allowed to reach in the mainstream. There have been inroads, e.g. in the 70's with prog', but that was hauled back into place and made to conform. Rock music ultimately, at least to my mind, is the nulification of individuality. Nothing more than "product".

I play it though and appreciate it for what it is.

Still, I think it a tragedy.
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Old 09-10-2009, 02:21 AM
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Default Re: British Invasion 2.0

Fair point, Wy Hung. Thanks to the increased control of record companies, rock has been moving in ever decreasing circles for a while now. Moving very slowly.

What The Beatles offer that many modern bands doesn't is outstanding melodies presented with imagination. Newer bands have the slickness, the energy, the power and the attitude but in most instances are not as strong as The Beatles in the other areas.

There's also the retro hype thing as well. When you have such a cult of personality in the media, celebrity trumps all. I expect that the quality writers whose manuscripts are ignored by publishing companies that fall over themselves to sign celebrity menoirs feel much the same as you do.
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Old 09-10-2009, 05:39 AM
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Default Re: British Invasion 2.0

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Yeah mate I know, it's just so old......

I have no problem with that. I mean I've read Tolstoy and Seneca. Listened to Louis Armstrong and Artie Shaw. But none of those artsts are in actual competition with the artists of today. All it shows to me is the incredibly limited scope rock music has been allowed to reach in the mainstream. There have been inroads, e.g. in the 70's with prog', but that was hauled back into place and made to conform. Rock music ultimately, at least to my mind, is the nulification of individuality. Nothing more than "product".

I play it though and appreciate it for what it is.

Still, I think it a tragedy.
Are they not in competition with artists of today? The competition is for the dollar spend of the consumer, and it is in this space the commercialism of the record industries reign supreme.
But that is not to say that a band or artist of any form doesnt have an outlet. These days, anyone with video camera and a computer has the same access to an audience as the commercial entities. No company will take a chance on a product unless there is a quid pro quo.
Eventually, what will happen is that "Rock" will be subsumed in the "Pop" genre, and another subculture will eventuate, and the cycle will continue.
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Old 09-10-2009, 07:06 AM
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Default Re: British Invasion 2.0

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Eventually, what will happen is that "Rock" will be subsumed in the "Pop" genre, and another subculture will eventuate, and the cycle will continue.

I agree. This is what I find a bit sad. That music today so closely resembles music of 40 years ago I feel is regressive. It is the same story with jazz. People want to move it forward but so many want to hold it back. The Ken Burns doco is a case in point.

Oh well.
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Old 09-10-2009, 02:08 PM
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Default Re: British Invasion 2.0

Wy, I agree. I die a little whenever I see certain names arising (very often on this forum). That said, The Beatles to me are an exception. There's an attitude there and a spirit of experimentation that inspires me more than the music itself. If you view The Beatles as a experience of innovation (and other bands of that era, early Pink Floyd as well) and what they represented in terms of ideas rather than necessarily music, bands must compete with that.

Music itself is, as you say, very regressive. It irritates me as well - massively. But if we take enough of the spirit rather than the music verbatim, that will change.
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Old 09-10-2009, 05:05 PM
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Default Re: British Invasion 2.0

Is this really regressive or just a temporary change in the popularity of a few groups??
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Old 09-10-2009, 05:06 PM
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Default Re: British Invasion 2.0

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It was no coincidence.
I know I should of gone :P I was trying to be sarcastic.
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:19 PM
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Default Re: British Invasion 2.0

Cool 8>)................
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:34 PM
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Default Re: British Invasion 2.0

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Is this really regressive or just a temporary change in the popularity of a few groups??
When bands start imitating bands like, say, Led Zeppelin (Wolfmother, for instance) it is regressive. But nobody has really tried to copy The Beatles and certainly their attitude should perpetuate.
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Old 09-11-2009, 12:07 AM
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Default Re: British Invasion 2.0

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Cool 8>)................
lol good smiley! try this one out for size... ~8^)

sorry for being off topic.
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Old 09-11-2009, 12:30 AM
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Default Re: British Invasion 2.0

Well I guess my only suggestion would be, if you are having trouble competing with a band that is 40 years old, then maybe it is your music. Bye, Bye Miss American Pie...the day the music died. I guess it didn't die after all. the blues have been around forever and hasn't changed. Maybe real rock and roll hasn't changed either. Paul said they quit playing live because they couldn't hear themselves play due to all of the screaming. But when they did play, there were no light shows, fireworks, blood spitting etc. Just good music that still lives, and like I said before, it just might be a message to the rest of the music world. If you want to compete, put out a good product. The genre, The Oldies, will always be The Oldies, and there are still radio stations that play this music exclusively. I don't call it regression, I call it nostalgia. Just like those good old three ply Ludwigs. Who would want those regressive drums?? A new method of drum building must be better!!
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Old 09-11-2009, 01:38 AM
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Default Re: British Invasion 2.0

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When bands start imitating bands like, say, Led Zeppelin (Wolfmother, for instance) it is regressive. But nobody has really tried to copy The Beatles and certainly their attitude should perpetuate.

Oasis, anybody? Plus many others. Geez, I played with a few! :-)

Having lived through it once, and then again on a few occasions, perhaps I am just sick of it.

Geriatric rock stars, who would ever have imagined it? ;-)

Imagine?
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Old 09-11-2009, 02:36 AM
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Default Re: British Invasion 2.0

Interesting article.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/the-be...0910-fjce.html

Why should children care about a group their grandparents danced to 40 years ago? There is an abiding suspicion that the continued obsession with the Beatles is driven by media nostalgia. Has the band's primacy become a self-perpetuating myth?
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:14 AM
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Default Re: British Invasion 2.0

"In just seven years, the Beatles went from a rock-and-roll dance band to psychedelic visionaries to mature singer-songwriters, from musical adolescents to adult artists. And it is a journey listeners can still take with them. Indeed, this is not just a musical game, it is a mystical quest."

"Their longevity may suit our nostalgia but it works only because the songs have become the folk music of our times, so brilliant and wide-ranging that they exert a powerful grip on the imagination, whatever your age."

From the above mentioned article....I couldn't have said it better.
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:19 AM
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Default Re: British Invasion 2.0

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"In just seven years, the Beatles went from a rock-and-roll dance band to psychedelic visionaries to mature singer-songwriters, from musical adolescents to adult artists. And it is a journey listeners can still take with them. Indeed, this is not just a musical game, it is a mystical quest."

"Their longevity may suit our nostalgia but it works only because the songs have become the folk music of our times, so brilliant and wide-ranging that they exert a powerful grip on the imagination, whatever your age."

From the above mentioned article....I couldn't have said it better.

There's no doubt they were great. I wont argue that.

But for me, I've heard those sessions before. It is a very personal thing for me I guess. I move through music quickly and have no feeling of nostalgia. In fact I actively avoid it. I may own an album from the past to use for teaching, for example, Kind of blue, but I wont listen to it at home. Just as I wont read War and Peace again. I can't read the same book over and over. Nor the same sessions. What is new to discover??? Life's too short.

But that is just me. I don't force it upon others.
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:26 AM
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Default Re: British Invasion 2.0

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There's no doubt they were great. I wont argue that.

But for me, I've heard those sessions before. It is a very personal thing for me I guess. I move through music quickly and have no feeling of nostalgia. In fact I actively avoid it. I may own an album from the past to use for teaching, for example, Kind of blue, but I wont listen to it at home. Just as I wont read War and Peace again. I can't read the same book over and over. Nor the same sessions. What is new to discover??? Life's too short.

But that is just me. I don't force it upon others.
To learn a craft, you learn from the bottom up. The Beatles (as does 'Kind of Blue') represent - to me - a basis upon which to learn. In their case, an attitude or a method of endeavour. Replaying their music (musically influenced bands) are irrelevant - just like replaying 'Kind of Blue' would be, but to understand what you can do, you need to see what has been done. There's no emotional involvement of 'nostalgia' at play and I'm far from saying 'replicate'. I'm saying take concept and learn - but not take music and learn.

What's new to discover? Well, clearly there is something. Otherwise we would all know by now that trying to copy music of past eras is pointless and stagnatory. Taking aesthetic positions? Not so.

And I'll take Oasis as an example, you're right. For the record, I hate Oasis. I'm glad to see them splitting.
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:30 AM
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Default Re: British Invasion 2.0

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To learn a craft, you learn from the bottom up. The Beatles (as does 'Kind of Blue') represent - to me - a basis upon which to learn. In their case, an attitude or a method of endeavour. Replaying their music (musically influenced bands) are irrelevant - just like replaying 'Kind of Blue' would be, but to understand what you can do, you need to see what has been done. There's no emotional involvement of 'nostalgia' at play and I'm far from saying 'replicate'. I'm saying take concept and learn - but not take music and learn.

What's new to discover? Well, clearly there is something. Otherwise we would all know by now that trying to copy music of past eras is pointless and stagnatory. Taking aesthetic positions? Not so.
I know, but I'm 45 and have listened again and again. I have made the search from people such as Baby Dodds through Gene to Buddy and Papa Jo to Kenny and Philly and Elvin to Joe to Tony and Jack to Rasheed and Billy and Al to Harvey and Mike to Rick and Steve and Jeff to Chester to JR to Ndugu to Dennis and Vinnie to Keith and Benny.

That knowledge is there already. I use it with my students. But for listening, I want to go this way ----->
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:53 AM
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I know, but I'm 45 and have listened again and again. I have made the search from people such as Baby Dodds through Gene to Buddy and Papa Jo to Kenny and Philly and Elvin to Joe to Tony and Jack to Rasheed and Billy and Al to Harvey and Mike to Rick and Steve and Jeff to Chester to JR to Ndugu to Dennis and Vinnie to Keith and Benny.

That knowledge is there already. I use it with my students. But for listening, I want to go this way ----->
I agree with that sentiment, believe me. Sometimes though, I just enjoy listening to the music again.
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:56 AM
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Default Re: British Invasion 2.0

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I agree with that sentiment, believe me. Sometimes though, I just enjoy listening to the music again.

Nothing wrong with that. :-)


I'm about to set up a Premier kit! Have not done that in years. Will think of Keith! ;-)
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:59 AM
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Default Re: British Invasion 2.0

Please don't think about Keith too much. Brains might implode...
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Old 09-11-2009, 09:18 PM
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Default Re: British Invasion 2.0

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While the band was amazing and so was their success, I must admit I find it sad that modern youg rock bands must still compete with this nostalgic, half a century old product.

Rock is a slow moving beast where nothing really changes. The result is what is now happening. Senior citizens and the dead getting revenue (again) that would be better off pushing the music forward.

Every time I see the Beatles or Led Zep mentioned on a web site I die just a little.
I agree. Obsession with the past retards musical evolution. The Beatles were a very influential group in Western pop music and even influenced music in other cultures. They are worth veneration and study, but it's gotten a bit ridiculous. I recall reading a wealthy investor who has purchased part of the Beatles catalog and other famous goups says he doesn't like invention or trying new creative things. I wish I could find that article. Rock could be getting like jazz - unable to really reconcile its future with past successes that are becoming traumatic.

Beatles music is like Christmas music, played everywhere constantly, except it's year-round. Whenever I hear The Beatles or Led Zeppelin playing in a coffee shop (which is very very often) I cringe in embarrassment. Can't they come up with something that hasn't been heard 50 million times?

I am very careful to avoid listening to The Beatles, Led Zeppelin and other overplayed groups lest they influence me too much. I am interested in music that has not yet been created.
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Old 09-11-2009, 09:53 PM
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Default Re: British Invasion 2.0

I think different genre's of music are destined not to evolve, rather artists evolve through them. Each genre has it's moment then moves in & out of popularity but generally follows the generation that spawned it. Most new genre's are born as a result of rebelion against the popular genre of the day. Occasionally there's a bit of anti establishment political influence just to push it along. There should be no surprise in this evolution. New genre's are developed by the youths of the day who typically fight against the dominant music medium as it represents what is acceptable in the very society they criticize. Every few years, that generation is replaced by the next who see them as the establishment, & so on. It could be argued that it is fixation on past genre's that acts as the catylist for the birth of something new. Each new genre denying, but ultimately submitting to, influence from those that have gone before. I'm off to play some rock music!
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Old 09-11-2009, 10:11 PM
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Default Re: British Invasion 2.0

Another reason I believe for this re-release, is the technology. There will be more talk soon as the Apple label, allows Apple the computer, to put the entire catalog on iTunes. And in 5 years, or ten years when the newest format comes out, I'll call it MP 5, the entire catalog will be made available once again. Or the newest toy like Rock Band, you will see the Beatles yet again. I for one, who has all of their works on CD and some vinyl, will not be purchasing any of the new stuff because I own all I need.
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