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  #1  
Old 03-24-2008, 07:27 PM
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Default as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

hello drummerworld community..

as i take my daily shower i sit in my room with my awsome stero putting in tapes that are probably as old as my parents, if not a little younger.

what i do notice is tape rot, tape warp, and total breakdown of the tapes.

and its sad.. as many more formats of music become avaliable that it leaves the tape, cd, and vinyl in the dust...

now people are saying.. Dom why dont you just get your favorite tunes on your mp3 player?

well i do. but sometimes you just need a good tape with the bass boost on to make your day..

so really guys im asking. has this nhappened to you? how many people still litsen to music on these kinds of formats? and what can i do to preserve the tapes that arent damaged yet..

Thanks!

Dom
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Old 03-24-2008, 07:56 PM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

its funny, these days when i buy music its on vinyl. i've stopped buying cds altogether and i'm pretty much a downloading pirate. but if i do decide to drop money on recorded music, i prefer a good ol' LP. and this summer i'm totally bringing back my yellow sony sport walkman.

home taping is killing music!!
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Old 03-24-2008, 08:08 PM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

I've made an effort to either convert all of my music to a digital format or at least replace it with a new purchase or download after finding the same thing that you have, but I am left with a few vinyl albums that are essentially irreplaceable. At least the vinyl holds up better.
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Old 03-24-2008, 08:10 PM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

Vinyl will make a return! Just watch and see!
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Old 03-24-2008, 08:12 PM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

What is a tape? What is vinvyl? What the heck is a CD?

Questions I'm prepared to answer when my son grows up...

I know audiophiles will always keep these technologies alive, or at least two of the three. But personally, I find the digital format so much more convenient. I can't imagine working out with a CD player strapped to me, much less the old yellow walkmans. I remember mowing lawns and listening to both, but now I can practically keep my mp3 player stashed in my mouth if I had to. The digital technology is just so much more advanced in terms of portability.

I know the sound is supposed to be sub-par, but I honestly just grew up at the tail end of the vinyl age. My family had a lot of albums, still do actually. My sister ended up with the whole pioneer system and about a dozen crates of albums. I remember learning to play drums to a compilation record of 50's music and another motown record in my basement. I definitely appreciate the romance of that medium, but I don't see it making a real comeback in terms of the marketplace as a whole.

This is hilarious and illustrates my point Panasonic Introduces Portable 500-Disc Changer To Compete Against iPod
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Old 03-24-2008, 08:26 PM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

link didn't quite get coded right for me so here it is in raw form:
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/56006

i can see it now, though, "Back when I was young, we had to wait 1 minute for the song to download, on a 3.2 ghz dual core computer, with a 19" LCD monitor, and I survived; now I don't want to hear your griping about not being able to get the whole discography in 1/10th of a second!"
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Old 03-24-2008, 09:19 PM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

To me, tape has always been just the portable, cheaper, more convienent way to have music "on the go". Hard to put a turntable in a car, or take it to the beach. I never liked listening to tapes at home. Tape hiss, always having to RW/FF to get to the song you want to hear. With the LP, simple drop the needle in the groove. Tapes started to dissapear in the 80's, so 30 years to make an exit. They had more than they're 15 minutes Andy Warhol promised. The music industry is run by the manufactures and distributors. And those people want to deal with 1 or 2 formats. Not 4, 5, or 6. I have a couple hundred LP's, down from 2K. Now I have around 2K CD's. Downloading is killing off the music industry, at least the retail end of it. 100's of record shops have closed in the LA area. To be replaced by none. Your chances of finding something (obscure) on eBay are better than hitting the stores, and it comes to you. The Ipod makes the car CD changer obsolete, so another portable music format is being replaced now. Change is the only constant.
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Old 03-24-2008, 09:23 PM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

i love my mp3 player to death.. and if you convert your music at the right quality youll be alright

its just ashame you know?


up untill recently i found all of these vinyls from so long ago..

Led Zeppelin 1

Ted Nugent

Pink Floyd

WoodStock etc etc etc

and i want to hear how it would sound on a vinyl. i heard its supposed to sound pretty neat

dark side of the moon, dazed and confused. it probably was a different experince in the 70's when people turned down the lights and threw a record on.. man

see what i miss out on?
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  #9  
Old 03-24-2008, 09:24 PM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk9290 View Post
link didn't quite get coded right for me so here it is in raw form:
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/56006

i can see it now, though, "Back when I was 15, we had to wait 1 minute for the song to download, on a 3.2 ghz dual core computer, with a 19" LCD monitor, and I survived; now I don't want to hear your griping about not being able to get the whole discography in 1/10th of a second!"
haha i still dont have that! my family just upgraded into the 1+ghz and the computer im on has 512 ram with a pentium 4

but hey im not complaning.. takes me 30 sec to download a song..

3.2 ghz with like 2gb ram.. maybe 10? haha

not to get off topic
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Old 03-24-2008, 10:07 PM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

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Originally Posted by KLittle123 View Post
Vinyl will make a return! Just watch and see!
i have seen some modern bands selling 6" vinly, (with the 2 sides as well) i think that they are trying to be cool because it is mainly indie bands
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  #11  
Old 03-24-2008, 10:07 PM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

Cassettes were particularly susceptible to 'melting' & rot, but they can often be brought back to life with baking, long enough to re-record into your favorite digital format (mine is still standard CD, 16/44.1)

Baking tapes isn't as mysterious or difficult as it may seem, and it can be done cheaply and quickly.

Get a Mr. Coffee Food Dehydrator at your local thrift shop for about $5. Any dehyadrator with a fan will do. It should have all the trays inside, and a lid.

Take the tapes out of their cases and place them on the uppermost tray. Run the dehydrator for 30 minutes. And that's it! Reels can be handled the same way. But only use the top tray, don't attempt to load the entire dehydrator.

You may then transfer the tape with little or no problem, playing it 2 or 3 times if necessary. I've fixed and rescued many hopeless tapes in the past, and this cheap, fast method absolutely works. Considering a toaster over or other extreme heat devices is asking for trouble and melted tape and plastic reels/cases.

Also, it's a good idea to make a few copies of the material. CDs/DVDs are cheap enough, make two and be safe.

Good luck,

Bermuda
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  #12  
Old 03-25-2008, 12:00 AM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

I understand your pain, i've got packs and packs of live oldskool dance sets that are literally impossible to get hold of now and will never be remastered. Your best bet is to get as reliable a double tape deck as you can and make copies, then do as you will with the copy.

As a format, cassette tapes are nothing other than a nuisance, but at least gave the opportunity to dub copies as well as the legendary mixtape. Sound quality was next to awful. Vinyl, on the other hand, imo outclasses digital, when a good pressing is played on a premium setup. The bass frequencies vinyl can deliver are unique.
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Old 03-25-2008, 12:13 AM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

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Originally Posted by jonescrusher View Post
I understand your pain, i've got packs and packs of live oldskool dance sets that are literally impossible to get hold of now and will never be remastered. Your best bet is to get as reliable a double tape deck as you can and make copies, then do as you will with the copy.

As a format, cassette tapes are nothing other than a nuisance, but at least gave the opportunity to dub copies as well as the legendary mixtape. Sound quality was next to awful. Vinyl, on the other hand, imo outclasses digital, when a good pressing is played on a premium setup. The bass frequencies vinyl can deliver are unique.
I like cassette tapes and listen to them several times a week. Some genres, like '80s Butt Rock, must have the greasy haze of cassette tape to sound right. However, tapes degrade fairly quickly and I have begun dubbing them to CDs.
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Old 03-25-2008, 12:25 AM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

Dusty? cough cough. For my 16th birthday, 1964, my mom bought me a Magnavox, transistor radio. AM only, no FM. This little beast was 30.00. Lots of cash back in the day. I was as they say, First on my block, to own one. I took that thing everywhere. Even got caught in 10th grade band with it on my music stand at low, but not low enough, volume back in the percussion section. Had to give it to the teacher but got it back at the end of class. So being the wise, ha ha , kid I took a book and hollowed out the inside to fit the radio in to it.... got caught with that too. Ah yes Technology. I loved albums. There was something about the size of the cover and the liner notes that were just cool. But now, its my iTunes, computer, GarageBand, etc. And I don't want to go back.
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Old 03-25-2008, 12:33 AM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

I loves Vinyls. I love listening to my dad's old vinyls. Listening to a vinyl just holds something that a CD or Mp3 dont.
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Old 03-25-2008, 01:57 AM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

I'm still a sucker for CDs (I'm so old school, I know) in this day and age. I love having something to hold in my hands and a booklet to flip through, but I'm actually forcing myself to convert to digital more and more. I think the audio quality is just as good (if you know what you're doing), which is what matters, and it's just so much cheaper that I can't justify buying CDs exclusively anymore, especially when there are no good music shops around here and Best Buy doesn't have the selection of non-mainstream music that makes up my tastes - meaning I have to pay shipping on CDs as well. Now I only buy my CDs for all the music from my favorite bands.
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Old 03-25-2008, 02:12 AM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
Dusty? cough cough. For my 16th birthday, 1964, my mom bought me a Magnavox, transistor radio. AM only, no FM. This little beast was 30.00. Lots of cash back in the day. I was as they say, First on my block, to own one. I took that thing everywhere. Even got caught in 10th grade band with it on my music stand at low, but not low enough, volume back in the percussion section. Had to give it to the teacher but got it back at the end of class. So being the wise, ha ha , kid I took a book and hollowed out the inside to fit the radio in to it.... got caught with that too. Ah yes Technology. I loved albums. There was something about the size of the cover and the liner notes that were just cool. But now, its my iTunes, computer, GarageBand, etc. And I don't want to go back.
well theres nothing better to do back in the percussion section...


anyway
I could put some music on an iPod and choose the song then I'm content. But if 10 minutes later i hear the song on the radio I get a great feeling because its random chance that the song I love is now playing and out of all those songs that one that I love is chosen

Idk its some weird feeling i get when a great song comes on the radio.
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Old 03-25-2008, 08:19 AM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

Bass boost! YEAH!

The thirty minutes of hiss at the end of the album was the best non-addicting sleep aid, ever. Until the tape flips again and the music blares freaking you out.

I still have a bunch of old tapes. Most of them are recordings of myself, and a lot of stuff from my current band (from when we were in high school). It is disappointing to find a tape you loved is warped. I have yet to convert all my old home recordings to digital format. I need to borrow a good tape deck from someone. The boom box I have won't cut it.
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  #19  
Old 03-26-2008, 11:06 AM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

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Originally Posted by lewisn27 View Post
i have seen some modern bands selling 6" vinly, (with the 2 sides as well) i think that they are trying to be cool because it is mainly indie bands
kind of. it's not so much as a "let's be cool" thing more than it just is a cool thing. vinyl is not pirate-able for the most part - i did see an article about making some kind of silicone copy - but it looked like a bad and poor quality way to make a copy. vinyl keeps music as art rather than 1's and 0's on your harddrive just waiting to be sent off to various file uploading sites or p2p networks (i.e. soulseek). vinyl also produces a better quality sound. cd's are obsolete imo. my band plans on releasing a 7" in the next year which i'm sure would be available on itunes digitally. but cd's are boring, they don't have large cover art or 180 grams of high quality tunes. vinyl is the way to go, more specifically vinyl w/digital downloads included. because although i do LOVE my vinyl, i like to listen to music in my car other than the radio.

tapes are not coming to a close either. my friend's band is releasing 5 songs on cassette for the belgian label they are signed too.


Vinyl is DEFINITELY back though. with vengeance.
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Old 08-30-2009, 04:02 PM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

Man this thread brings back wonderful memories.The thing I miss most about LP's was the album cover artwork. Albums by the band Yes with Roger Dean paintings of other-worldly landscapes. He also did the Asia albums. Who could forget the painting on King Crimson's debut album, or the freakish looking Brain Salad Surgery ?

Back then you just didn't get music, you got a 12" piece of art !
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Old 08-30-2009, 05:08 PM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

I agree, tapes and long plays are so unique and original as an piece of art. I still have and keep my collection.
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Old 08-30-2009, 07:00 PM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

I actually bought a vinyl copy of a 2008 album last year (when it had just came out). I ripped it onto the PC but i think i must have made a bit of a # of it because it sounds a bit weird now. Or maybe it's just the album itself is too overcompressed lol because that's what it sounds like, that horrible sort of wavy sound you get when someone has shoved the audio through peak limiter on full at the mastering stage.
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Old 08-30-2009, 07:01 PM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

I bought an Omar Rodriquez-Lopez EP on transparent vinyl about a month ago. I found a record store in London that specialises in avant-garde and has a selection of new vinyl downstairs. Most impressive. No format is dead.
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Old 08-30-2009, 07:09 PM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

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Originally Posted by Mediocrefunkybeat View Post
No format is dead.
If that is the case, i challenge you to find a wax disc with a recording on it that i can play on my pornograph!
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Old 08-30-2009, 07:23 PM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

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If that is the case, i challenge you to find a wax disc with a recording on it that i can play on my pornograph!
There are ways and means.
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Old 08-30-2009, 07:27 PM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

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There are ways and means.
actually i'm sure you're right- the recording machines do still exist and they're not really that hard to record onto.
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Old 08-30-2009, 09:01 PM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

Most of my cassettes became worn and stretched out long ago, so I tossed them all.
It hurt a little bit, but their was no point in keeping them, they were all too far gone.

I still have a few select vinyl records, which are more kept because they're rare (like an original printing of Tommy with the 3 fold out cover) or autographed.

I have a large CD collection.

I've tried moving to the digital age. I finally got an ipod because there are almost no CD stores anymore, and I hate paying $10 extra in import fees for a disc from Europe when the download price is the same as a domestic release.

But I'm starting to hate downloading albums, because I don't have the liner notes. If I want to look up which studio, the albums was recorded in, or who played drums on the track, if they used a guest musician, who wrote what, none of that exists in a download. Not to mention no art work. It feels very incomplete just having the mp3.

But I admit loading a bunch of CDs onto my ipod is a nifty way to take a bunch of music in the car.
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Old 08-30-2009, 11:41 PM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

I went round to my friends the other day and spotted a pile of records in the corner of his room. So I ask...
'What are they?'
'Oh they're my Dads old records. He gave them to add to my collection.
'Cool. What have you got?'
'Just some old rock and metal'
I start looking and pull out original copies of Led Zeppelin 1, 2 ,3 and 4!!!
'Oh my god these are amazing!!! Why didn't you say?!?! Can I listen to them? Please, please, please!'
'Erm yea if want. I'm not really into them... I know, do you want to listen to my mint condition copy of "The Fall", they're well good'
'...no I don't want to listen to your copy of "the fall". Tit'

listening to them was magical. It made me feel like I was listening to them more than on my iPod or my CDs. I can't explain it. I felt like I was in the 70's listening to them live. Just amazing!

He also had original copies of Black Sabbath records, Motorhead, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Jethro Tull. The list goes on, there were loads!
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Old 08-31-2009, 12:14 AM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

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Originally Posted by freebirdgdw View Post
I went round to my friends the other day and spotted a pile of records in the corner of his room. So I ask...
'What are they?'
'Oh they're my Dads old records. He gave them to add to my collection.
'Cool. What have you got?'
'Just some old rock and metal'
I start looking and pull out original copies of Led Zeppelin 1, 2 ,3 and 4!!!
'Oh my god these are amazing!!! Why didn't you say?!?! Can I listen to them? Please, please, please!'
'Erm yea if want. I'm not really into them... I know, do you want to listen to my mint condition of "The Fall", they're well good'
'...no I don't want to listen to your copy of "the fall". Tit'

listening to them was magical. It made me feel like I was listening to them more than on my iPod or my CDs. I can't explain it. I felt like I was in the 70's listening to them live. Just amazing!

He also had original copies of Black Sabbath records, Motorhead, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Jethro Tull. The list goes on, there were loads!
That's pretty amazing. Records tend to sound a bit nicer because the imperfections and inaccuricies of the waveform pressed into the vinyl takes a bit of the 'edge' or the very high treble off the sound which makes it sound less harsh but still managing to retain the 'presence' that many modern producers pile on the treble to create. Or at least that's what i reckon anyway, but i'm no audio engineer so what do i know eh?
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Old 08-31-2009, 12:16 AM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

Well, i love the "digital" age...it takes up so much less physical space, and i just love that. a lot less clutter. I couldn't stand having to put this big record in some bigger record player and have to do all these other things just to listen to some music.

but what do i know, im only 18.
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Old 08-31-2009, 10:44 PM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

Of all the music medias I have seen in my life, digital has been best to the ears, but from a durability standpoint, CDs and DVDs have been the most awful. Vinly albums, 8 Tracks, and cassettes never used to crap out after a week due to scratches.
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Old 09-04-2009, 01:47 AM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

I love my cassette taped and I still listen to them. Some genres, like '80s butt rock, were optimized for tape and are best heard through the greasy haze of the cassette.

When all my tapes degrade I will be very sorry. I still cling to my last few hundred, including home mixes, copied albums and store-bought.
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Old 09-06-2009, 11:22 PM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

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Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
Cassettes were particularly susceptible to 'melting' & rot, but they can often be brought back to life with baking, long enough to re-record into your favorite digital format (mine is still standard CD, 16/44.1)
(some text deleted for brevity!)
Baking tapes isn't as mysterious or difficult as it may seem, and it can be done cheaply and quickly.
Bermuda
WOW! Thanks for that info, Bermuda. I had always heard of the process, but assumed I had to go to a pro to get it done. This is really going to help me out, as I've got a couple of rare (to me anyway) cassette recordings of bands in was in back in the day that are all oozy & sticky and unplayable. I need to digitize them before they are too far gone.

I'm off to Salvation Army to get my Mr. Coffee Food Dehydrator!!!
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  #34  
Old 09-07-2009, 12:26 AM
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freebirdgdw freebirdgdw is offline
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

I remember being at secondary school and me and friends weekly swapping tape mixtapes of our favorite track, or tracks off the radio, or new songs we had. Those were the days...

...wait! I'm 20. This was only about 7-8 years ago :P
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Old 09-07-2009, 04:12 PM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

In the early years of the digital format (early 80s) before I got into my current career, I used to manage two video stores for an absentee owner. We were a Pioneer dealer and sold LaserDiscs. Some of you may remember this format.

Of course cassettes were still immensely popular and access to digital recordings was still expensive and you couldn't "burn" anything unless you ran a digital media pressing plant.

LaserDiscs were 12" just like a vinyl LP and audio/videophiles lined up like Trekkies at a convention to buy these discs as they were released. We did a lot of business.

The first discs were in a format called CAV (constant angular velocity) and you got 30 minutes per 12" side of music and video. Pioneer and Sony released hundreds of discs in this format and then after a year or two they came out with CLV (constant linear velocity) and you could get an hour on each 12" side. They even made an 8" disc that was marketed to 30 somethings with money that was reminiscent of how vinyl used to come in 45s (rpm) and people bought those too.

Eventually, I don't remember what year, 86 or 87 they came out with CDVs (compact disc videos). This was a 5" disc that had one audio video on it and usually 4 or 5 audio recordings in the new .wav format. If you had paid extra for your 12" LaserDisc player it might have had a 5" tray and if not you could buy an adaptor. Yikes.

I still have some of these discs and the 5" ones will still play.

At this point, I think it was Phillips and Matsuschita launched the CD format and the CD player was born. Entry level ones sold for like $800. Double yikes.

My best friend had an amazing record collection with many many master recordings on vinyl. He had the whole suspended from the ceiling turntable with all of his speakers on "tip toes" and absolutely hated the CD format. His claim was that was more information on the vinyl pressings and the CD format contained less and therefore was inferior in quality. This was most likely true because sampling rates were not as high as they are today and A/D to D/A conversion was not as sophisticated as today.

Just like reel to reel, 8 track and cassette tapes would degrade over time there was also a phenomenon at the time known as "Laser Rot". CD and DVD (CVD, LD, etc..) technology had it's problems with the reflective coating that contained the "pits" that all this digital information was on would start to degrade. Some believed it due to oxidation that couldn't be prevented regardless of the sealed clear plastic. Others thought that the silvery material was unstable. I used to know people that could swear they could see this degradation on a disc. I wonder.

After musicians, artists and the music industry had flipped out over cassette recording ability and its accessibility to the masses, they all embraced this new digital technology because manufacturers did not look like they were going to ever release a digital compact disc recorder. Everybody knows how that turned out.

I have to admit that I like my audio and video in the form of ones and zeros. I have dozens of old reel to reel inch, 45s, LPs, cassettes and LaserDiscs that I have kept as keepsakes. Cassettes tapes bring back my fondest memories of music on the go and roadtrips. I loved LPs and the importance of album cover art second to the recording of an album. Bands would obsess over their cover art. It was a great time.

My stupid little LG cellphone has an 8 gig micro SD card in it. I wonder how many warehouses full of wax cylinder recordings can fit on that thing.
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  #36  
Old 09-07-2009, 08:56 PM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

WOW Bermuda, I never knew that you could rescue tapes like that! I have priceless cassette tapes of me from 1971 playing with my long lost friends in my first basement band....I'm afraid to play it anymore. I have recordings of my sons voice when he was like 3...Thanks so much
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Old 09-15-2009, 08:21 PM
justjim justjim is offline
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

Quote:
Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
Ah yes Technology. I loved albums. There was something about the size of the cover and the liner notes that were just coo
I'm with ya there - somewhere is storage I still have a few real classical albums, but I don't have a 78 record player anymore :(
I can still play 33-1/3 LPs on my current turntable, but you don't have that big book-bound volume of a real album to sit on your lap

then again, you don't have to get up change the LP


certainly don't miss R2R magtape

compact cassette always seemed like a compromise to me, but they were portable - i guess it was cost, but I often lamented why they didn't put a tape brake on compact cassette a'la videotape cassette [putting part of the transport IN the individual medium units always seemed a bit of a blunt brute force solution to me anyway]
I doubt anyone really misses spooling out 20+ feet of magtape loking for the other end of the twist.

I'm pretty happy with the new digital stuff.
One nice thing about the digital for me : when compact cassette was ruling the roost, much of the stuff I wanted to listen to was lower-margin stuff so it got put on lower-quality cassettes :(
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  #38  
Old 09-16-2009, 06:16 AM
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Default Re: as the decade comes to a close. so do tapes

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryace View Post
WOW Bermuda, I never knew that you could rescue tapes like that! I have priceless cassette tapes of me from 1971 playing with my long lost friends in my first basement band....I'm afraid to play it anymore. I have recordings of my sons voice when he was like 3...Thanks so much
Cassette tapes get no respect, but many of us have cherished recordings on them. They were the first medium that allowed anyone to record, copy and make their own compilations. I was reading that in some countries, they were used to help overthrow governments because people could pass messages along on them (kind of like Twitter today).
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