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  #1  
Old 07-23-2009, 07:48 PM
mattvdh mattvdh is offline
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Default Amplifying your Trigger sounds...

Hi I use an electronic bass drum for my kick and I normally plug in to a PA...my issue is that I can't get it loud enough on ANY PA without the trigger clipping. I plug in via DI/hi z...

I'm thinking of buying a bass amp or keyboard amp as my monitor and I'm hoping it'll reduce clipping when used on the PA because the signal source should be stronger...is that true?

what kind of amp do you recommend, or is there something I can do to pump up the signal so my PA doesn't clip? I've tried those roland monitors, but they don't go too loud...looking for something with more balls/power.
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  #2  
Old 07-23-2009, 07:58 PM
mattvdh mattvdh is offline
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Default Re: Amplifying your Trigger sounds...

this looks pretty sick... anybody tried this? http://www.roland.com/products/en/TDA-700/index.html
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  #3  
Old 07-25-2009, 06:07 PM
mattvdh mattvdh is offline
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Default Re: Amplifying your Trigger sounds...

not too many metal drummers on this site eh....
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  #4  
Old 07-27-2009, 07:02 PM
Numberonefan Numberonefan is offline
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Default Re: Amplifying your Trigger sounds...

Sounds like you need a 10db pad. Obviously you donít have one in the mixer or I assume you would be using it. Higher end boards will have this on each channel. You can pick up an inline pad (attenuator) buy many manufacturers. The sure one is nice as itís switchable from 10, 15 to 20 db for stupid hot signals.

The other option is if you are taking it in the mic input on the channel strip use the line in instead. This will reduce the level as it expects a higher level signal.
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  #5  
Old 07-28-2009, 04:59 PM
mattvdh mattvdh is offline
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Default Re: Amplifying your Trigger sounds...

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Originally Posted by Numberonefan View Post
Sounds like you need a 10db pad. Obviously you donít have one in the mixer or I assume you would be using it. Higher end boards will have this on each channel. You can pick up an inline pad (attenuator) buy many manufacturers. The sure one is nice as itís switchable from 10, 15 to 20 db for stupid hot signals.

The other option is if you are taking it in the mic input on the channel strip use the line in instead. This will reduce the level as it expects a higher level signal.
ok cool I'll look in to that 10db pad. do you use triggers?
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  #6  
Old 07-28-2009, 05:07 PM
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thelimpingtoad thelimpingtoad is offline
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Default Re: Amplifying your Trigger sounds...

I have a roland keyboard amp that i use to amplify my synthesizer... its nice, has a 15" sub and 2" horn... the thing also has like 3 other inputs and can handle stereo so its perfect. Recently we ran both my synth and the keyboard into the keyboard amp then passed it back out to the pa system. This worked really well in our live sound.
Take a look at some roland amps that are specifically built for keyboards... this gives you the best range for your synth...
I bought my roland kc-500 back in 1999 and it is still working wonders today.
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Old 07-28-2009, 10:44 PM
mattvdh mattvdh is offline
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Default Re: Amplifying your Trigger sounds...

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Originally Posted by thelimpingtoad View Post
I have a roland keyboard amp that i use to amplify my synthesizer... its nice, has a 15" sub and 2" horn... the thing also has like 3 other inputs and can handle stereo so its perfect. Recently we ran both my synth and the keyboard into the keyboard amp then passed it back out to the pa system. This worked really well in our live sound.
Take a look at some roland amps that are specifically built for keyboards... this gives you the best range for your synth...
I bought my roland kc-500 back in 1999 and it is still working wonders today.

cool i'll look in to that...thanks
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  #8  
Old 07-28-2009, 11:38 PM
Mediocrefunkybeat
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Default Re: Amplifying your Trigger sounds...

If you're using a DI then the signal should be hot enough. Are you sure that you haven't got the pad engaged? You ought to liase with the engineer to see what kind of signal you're getting from the trigger. Personally I've never had any problems using MIDI - based systems live because I make sure that I'm using the line output from my module, which is perfectly hot enough without a DI. What have you got in your signal chain?

Thinking outside the box, are you using any kind of long, unbalanced cables?

It might also have something to do with the high impedence of your DI. Which module are you using and what is the exact model of DI? I'll have a check for you if you post those details.
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Old 07-29-2009, 01:35 AM
mattvdh mattvdh is offline
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Default Re: Amplifying your Trigger sounds...

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Originally Posted by Mediocrefunkybeat View Post
If you're using a DI then the signal should be hot enough. Are you sure that you haven't got the pad engaged? You ought to liase with the engineer to see what kind of signal you're getting from the trigger. Personally I've never had any problems using MIDI - based systems live because I make sure that I'm using the line output from my module, which is perfectly hot enough without a DI. What have you got in your signal chain?

Thinking outside the box, are you using any kind of long, unbalanced cables?

It might also have something to do with the high impedence of your DI. Which module are you using and what is the exact model of DI? I'll have a check for you if you post those details.

I'm using a planet waves guitar cable and some no name 4" cable...that may be part of the problem but I've tried all kinds of cords so I doubt that seriously the issue. but I'll look in to that 10db pad and some speaker cables. and I always run the cable from the mono line out, output..never midi.

I normally jam with a 1000w yorkville pa and the vocals can go extremely loud but the triggers clips just before the sweet spot in volume, and every amp I've ever tried clips as well...and when I was playing a gig a few weeks ago I noticed that the speakers were lighting up so they were clipping as well when my kick/trigger was set off... and that was a massive PA...way beyond 2000w's...and I always plugin to a DI box at gigs or directly into a line in /hiz.

I think I may need to buy that roland amp for a good stage monitor and stronger or more balanced line out...

so you've never had any problems with clipping? what type of module do you use? I'd like to get a alesis dm5 pretty soon...those are bad ass.
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  #10  
Old 07-29-2009, 01:59 AM
Mediocrefunkybeat
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Default Re: Amplifying your Trigger sounds...

It sounds like your DI is the problem. Try one with a lower impedence or a lower impedence input on the desk. You don't need all that for a trigger - I use high impedence inputs for my guitars, but a trigger is working at a much higher level than that. Or just get rid of the DI. I'm not convinced you need it.

I use an old Yamaha DTXpress II module and I never had any problems with it. I could, in theory, also use it to control a laptop and I plan on doing that in the near future for some nerdy fun.
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  #11  
Old 07-29-2009, 01:54 PM
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thelimpingtoad thelimpingtoad is offline
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Default Re: Amplifying your Trigger sounds...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattvdh View Post
I think I may need to buy that roland amp for a good stage monitor and stronger or more balanced line out...

so you've never had any problems with clipping? what type of module do you use? I'd like to get a alesis dm5 pretty soon...those are bad ass.

No problems with clipping or anything like that. Its an alesis dmpro. The amp has a balanced line out which is run into the pa and sent to the mains/monitors. We've only done this once but I have used that amp for the drum synth for a long time. I even used to use it with a mixing board running into it and it worked great for a simple pa system.

We were having a problem that the keyboard and drum synth we use weren't coming through the pa very well so this was the solution.

Just so I'm clear on your problem, is it that the pads are not triggering very hot on your synth or is it a problem with the line out from your synth? What types of pads do you use?
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  #12  
Old 08-05-2009, 01:34 AM
mattvdh mattvdh is offline
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Default Re: Amplifying your Trigger sounds...

to clarify, I'm going from my electronic bass drum to the td3 module to the line out, and then line in to the PA.

I pump my volumes on the module and sensitivity to the max and the volume on the channel on the pa to the max.. just before the sweet spot it starts to show yellow on the clip light. and I've messed around with the volume levels and sensitivity on the td3... that's not the issue, it sounds best at around 90% volume and sensitivity.

I think the problem is that I should be using a powered amp like a keyboard or that roland amp I posted earlier instead of going directly in to the PA. It seem like the obvious solution, but I don't recall any pro drummers using a powered amp for there triggers live... maybe my td3 isn't as loud as alesis dm5's or ddrum? I've used all kinds of PA's in my time and they all clip...like the sound doesn't break up but the clip light is lighting up and I'm sure it's pushing the speakers too hard.

thanks for the replys!
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  #13  
Old 08-05-2009, 04:36 AM
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thelimpingtoad thelimpingtoad is offline
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Default Re: Amplifying your Trigger sounds...

yeah that sounds like the solution. we were having problems with my drum synth and the keyboard cutting through the levels on the PA... i'm no sound technician so i don't know if this is the appropriate solution, but running through the keyboard amp into the pa worked well for us.
Good luck getting it figured out.
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  #14  
Old 08-05-2009, 05:05 PM
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drumr0 drumr0 is offline
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Default Re: Amplifying your Trigger sounds...

Just wondering if you have tried different bass drum sounds coming out of your module. If you have that "super low boomin" sound it would probably clip a PA before a "standard maple kick" sound would clip it. You mention "not too many metal drummers on this site" so maybe you are going after a "clicky" sound. If that is the case, then what I mentioned is not the issue.
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  #15  
Old 08-08-2009, 04:01 PM
mattvdh mattvdh is offline
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Default Re: Amplifying your Trigger sounds...

Quote:
Originally Posted by drumr0 View Post
Just wondering if you have tried different bass drum sounds coming out of your module. If you have that "super low boomin" sound it would probably clip a PA before a "standard maple kick" sound would clip it. You mention "not too many metal drummers on this site" so maybe you are going after a "clicky" sound. If that is the case, then what I mentioned is not the issue.


ya man I've tried them all... you're right though, some sounds have a much deeper low end and clip easier than other sounds.
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  #16  
Old 08-17-2009, 08:39 AM
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Skitch Skitch is offline
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Default Re: Amplifying your Trigger sounds...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattvdh View Post
ya man I've tried them all... you're right though, some sounds have a much deeper low end and clip easier than other sounds.
You may have to back off the signal you are sending. I don't know much about the TD3 but I have quite a bit of experience with the TD7, TD10, D4 and DM5. I have never had this problem.


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