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  #1  
Old 04-09-2009, 04:54 AM
godsmurfrmc godsmurfrmc is offline
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Default Umm...What happenend to Pinstripes??

Im a beginner drummer, just stated having lessons and my kit cost me 200. its very basic but ive been upgrading my cymbals, snares and heads since. The first set of heads i purchased were Remo Ambassador coated for the batter head of my 12" 13" and 16" toms. to be honest i didnt really know what i was doing. I play mainly rock music and a bit of metal (not recording or anything) and i realised that the heads i bought arent really suited to my music.....or are they?

I need some advice to be hones. my toms sound quite cool and loud and are very resonant but they sound a bit funny with my music, they sound a bit jazzy. I do not want to make this mistake again as i do not have the money to throw around. I was looking on the internet for optimum heads and i previously heard that pinstripes were good for rock music with a more bassy sound. but i was simply scanning the internet to confirm my thoughts about pinstripes and it seems that now every1 ive talked to are saying the pinstripes are not very good and i should try emperors and evans heads and all sorts. id rather stick with remo heads for now but will someone just help me out. what are the best heads for my style of plating? i play rock music and i am looking for lower pitched sounds with less overtones. Should i just get a Pinstripe pack?
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Old 04-09-2009, 05:07 AM
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Default Re: Umm...What happenend to Pinstripes??

Usually most but not all hard rock/metal drummers would use Remo Emperors
on top and the remo ambassadors on the bottom. However there are some who
play rock with Ambassors on top & bottom. The emperors are thicker and less resonant
than the ambassadors. You could make it work by retuning & a little muffling.
Pinstripes are dead sounding & thick. Also remember Clear heads will give you more
attack sounding vs coated will a little warmer sounding.
I recommed DON't buy a pack = you might hate them. just get 1 of each, say
1 13" emp & 1 14" pin & give it a try for a week & you will know.

Best
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  #3  
Old 04-09-2009, 05:12 AM
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Default Re: Umm...What happenend to Pinstripes??

Remo Emperors are well suited for rock or metal. Clear will be a little more open than coated but from what you want, I'd say go with coated Emperors on the tom tops and clear Ambassadors on the bottoms. Pinstripes will have a lower or somewhat muffled sound compared to the Emperors. If you like a low sound, Pinstripes may be better for you. Keep one thing in mind. Pinstripes will not sound as loud as the Emperors. If that isn't an issue for you, give em a try.
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Old 04-09-2009, 05:15 AM
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Default Re: Umm...What happenend to Pinstripes??

The problem with Pinstripes is not the sound, it's the consistency from head to head.

With any 2-ply head, Emperors included, there is an opportunity for the 2 plies to not lay together properly, and they tune at different rates and inhibit the head's vibration. that is, there's a good chance that you'll get a head that sounds (unintentionally) dead. It's a quality control issue with Remo. I imagine that Aquarian and Evans encounter some of the same issues getting two plies to lay completely flat against each other, but the heads with problems get pulled before they can get to the stores.

I recommend the Evans EC2 Clear, which compares with the Pinstripe (and happens to be my favorite tom head... and also happens to be Evans' best-seller.)

But if you absolutely want Remo Pinbstripes, you should test each head to make sure it's not a dog, and obviously this means going into a store, not ordering online. The "tap test" is done by holding the head with 2 fingers, hanging vertically next to your ear, and with the other hand, lightly tap the head. If there's a bit of a tone, you've got a good head. If it's completely flappy and dead, try another.

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Old 04-09-2009, 05:18 AM
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Default Re: Umm...What happenend to Pinstripes??

I was going to mention this but it usually starts a pooh storm.
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Old 04-09-2009, 05:20 AM
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Default Re: Umm...What happenend to Pinstripes??

Are the ec2's better than coated/clear ambassadors? Is one head better suited to my drums than the other.. tama starclassic performer.
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Old 04-09-2009, 05:23 AM
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Default Re: Umm...What happenend to Pinstripes??

The EC 2 is a 2 ply head. The Ambassador is a single ply... comparable to a G 1.
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Old 04-09-2009, 05:27 AM
godsmurfrmc godsmurfrmc is offline
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Default Re: Umm...What happenend to Pinstripes??

Cheers for the advice guys. Im still not sure though. Im pretty sure i would be happy with a set of pinstripes since ive convinced myself that my toms couldnt get any worse than they are at the moment. the problem is that ive tuned my toms to death and ive tried loads of muffling but my high tom sounds too high, the med tom sounds too low and resonates waaaay too much somehow.

Oh and by the way. my resonant heads are still the stock ones that came with the shitty drum set and it's about 5 months old now. Do they need replacing? could they be the reason for my bad sounds? And if they do need replacing, since i have hardly any cash at the moment when i get a new set of batter heads can i use those coated ambassadors (good condition) to replace my stock reso heads?
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  #9  
Old 04-09-2009, 05:49 AM
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Default Re: Umm...What happenend to Pinstripes??

Yes, change the bottoms. It will make a big difference. Tuning takes time to learn. We all have different ways of doing it. Look here http://www.youtube.com/user/bobgatzen for some good advice. Look at his video archive. He has several on there dedicated to tuning. I reccomend this over the so called "drum tuning bible"
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Old 04-09-2009, 05:56 AM
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Default Re: Umm...What happenend to Pinstripes??

Quote:
Originally Posted by godsmurfrmc View Post
Im pretty sure i would be happy with a set of pinstripes.

Oh and by the way. my resonant heads are still the stock ones that came with the shitty drum set and it's about 5 months old now. Do they need replacing?
If you get good Pinstripes, yes, you'll be happy with them. Those were my favorite heads for years, and I hand-picked each one. Only later did I realize the irony in having to sort good heads from bad... that's supposed to be Remo's job!

It couldn't hurt to replace the bottom heads, just to be sure they're new, and you're giving the batters every chance to sound their best. I like the Evans Resonants, and for Remo, a clear Diplomat works well with a Pinstripe.

BTW, for the best attack, you'll want the clear Pinstripes, not coated. Same goes for the Evans EC2 heads - the clear is better (IMO.)

Bermuda
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Old 04-09-2009, 05:58 AM
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Default Re: Umm...What happenend to Pinstripes??

Perhaps Coated Emps over Clear Emps a deeper sound
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  #12  
Old 04-09-2009, 06:15 AM
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Default Re: Umm...What happenend to Pinstripes??

Maybe on big drums say.. 16 & 18 floor toms. A 2 ply on the bottoms would decrease the volume a great deal... I would think.
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Old 04-09-2009, 06:22 AM
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Default Re: Umm...What happenend to Pinstripes??

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post

I recommend the Evans EC2 Clear, which compares with the Pinstripe (and happens to be my favorite tom head... and also happens to be Evans' best-seller.)

Bermuda
I agree with bermuda here.

Have had EC2 Clears on my kit for over a year playing Metal sets. No dents on them, a few scratches and they still have great sustain. I played Remo clear Emperors for years but switched to G2 clears. For me, the Evans heads last longer between head changes. I am very impressed with the EC2 clears, they have been on my kit longer than other heads I have used in the past.
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Old 04-09-2009, 06:33 AM
godsmurfrmc godsmurfrmc is offline
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Default Re: Umm...What happenend to Pinstripes??

Thanks alot everyone. I quite like the sound of the evans ec2. i looked around and noone had anything bad to say about them and i watched a few vids on youtube and they looked great. I do not know much about the G2 head though, it sounds rather similar to the Ec2. Could someone explain the difference between them and which one is more suited for me? again im looking for a more of a "thud" sound but a little bit of resonance too (eg. from what ive heard the pinstripes are TOO thuddy)
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  #15  
Old 04-09-2009, 06:51 AM
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Default Re: Umm...What happenend to Pinstripes??

You would be better off with the EC 2 if you choose Evans. The G 2 is basically their version of the Remo Emperor. The G 2 will be wide open with some overtones. The EC 2 will also sound open but without the ringy overtones. I like both. My son had coated EC 2's on his set and they sounded great. I don't think they sounded dead at all. They had a nice open round sound to them.
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Old 04-09-2009, 06:58 AM
godsmurfrmc godsmurfrmc is offline
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Default Re: Umm...What happenend to Pinstripes??

Cool.So i think Evans Ec2 Clears will have to be the way to go.

One more thing. Obviously i will have to get my stock reso heads replaced, but i dont have enough money to get a new set of resonant heads right now (16 years old in school). So you think my current batter heads (Remo Ambassadors coated), which are in good condition, will do a better job as replacement reso's once i get my batter heads? Aparrently ambassadors are good for resonant head but these are coated and have been used so im not sure what effect this might have
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  #17  
Old 04-09-2009, 08:42 AM
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Default Re: Umm...What happenend to Pinstripes??

Quote:
Originally Posted by godsmurfrmc View Post
Cool.So i think Evans Ec2 Clears will have to be the way to go.

One more thing. Obviously i will have to get my stock reso heads replaced, but i dont have enough money to get a new set of resonant heads right now (16 years old in school). So you think my current batter heads (Remo Ambassadors coated), which are in good condition, will do a better job as replacement reso's once i get my batter heads? Aparrently ambassadors are good for resonant head but these are coated and have been used so im not sure what effect this might have
Yeah, sure. Clear EC2's are a good choice.I guess there would be no harm in trying out your coated Ambassadors on the bottoms. The coated heads on the bottoms will warm up the sound meaning they won't sustain as much as clear heads. That's what I hear anyway. I have never used coated heads on the bottoms. I personally would use what's there and just wait and save up then get new bottoms.
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Old 04-09-2009, 03:11 PM
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Default Re: Umm...What happenend to Pinstripes??

Definitely replace the stock resos when you can afford to, particularly if they're the stock heads that came with the kit. Stock heads on cheap kits typically suck, so you may find you're a better tuner than you think!

Otherwise, good advice here. You might try getting a pinstripe and an EC2 for just one drum, say the 12". Try them out one after the other and you'll get a pretty good idea of what a set of them would sound like without spending a lot of money on a full set of heads you may not end up liking.

FYI: despite what given artists may endorse, or use live, there are many, many recordings made (in every genre you could name) with coated Ambassadors. They're a studio favorite. They do require good tuning--they're not as forgiving of mediocre tuning as the more muffled heads.

Meanwhile, here's a batch of Gatzen videos that are quite good for new tuners:

Tuning toms

Tuning snares

Tuning bass drums

Why resos are important (with sound examples)

Reducing snare buzz, Part I and Part II
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Old 04-09-2009, 03:57 PM
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Default Re: Umm...What happenend to Pinstripes??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nodiggie View Post
I agree with bermuda here.

Have had EC2 Clears on my kit for over a year playing Metal sets. No dents on them, a few scratches and they still have great sustain. I played Remo clear Emperors for years but switched to G2 clears. For me, the Evans heads last longer between head changes. I am very impressed with the EC2 clears, they have been on my kit longer than other heads I have used in the past.
I'm sure thats all true, but i'm not sure using longevity as the primary yardstick for heads is the best approach.

To the OP, different shells react differently to different heads. As example, my M Birch kits sings for days with ambassadors. My Maple PDP's on the other hand aren't terrible with Ambassadors but through trial and error I have found they seem to prefer a clear 2 ply head. The PDP shells seem to excel at heavier deeper tones vs the lighter more open tones the other kit produces.

I would go with Clear Emps on the batter and CLear Ambs on the reso side. You can always use rings/Moon Gel/bit of tape to modify the sound if more muffling is desired.
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Old 04-09-2009, 04:00 PM
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Default Re: Umm...What happenend to Pinstripes??

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Originally Posted by wolfmoon View Post
You would be better off with the EC 2 if you choose Evans. The G 2 is basically their version of the Remo Emperor. The G 2 will be wide open with some overtones. The EC 2 will also sound open but without the ringy overtones. I like both. My son had coated EC 2's on his set and they sounded great. I don't think they sounded dead at all. They had a nice open round sound to them.
That just confusing to me. those "ringy overtones" as you call them are what make a head "open sounding" to me. It just shows how people define their terms differently. I would call EC2's dead sounding. They lasted about 10 min on my kit
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Old 04-09-2009, 06:40 PM
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Default Re: Umm...What happenend to Pinstripes??

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Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post
That just confusing to me. those "ringy overtones" as you call them are what make a head "open sounding" to me. It just shows how people define their terms differently. I would call EC2's dead sounding. They lasted about 10 min on my kit
Yes, overtones make a head sound open. As far as the EC2's go, it all depends on ones tuning abililites and even more so on the type of drums they are being used on.
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Old 04-09-2009, 07:08 PM
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Default Re: Umm...What happenend to Pinstripes??

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post
I'm sure thats all true, but i'm not sure using longevity as the primary yardstick for heads is the best approach.

To the OP, different shells react differently to different heads. As example, my M Birch kits sings for days with ambassadors. My Maple PDP's on the other hand aren't terrible with Ambassadors but through trial and error I have found they seem to prefer a clear 2 ply head. The PDP shells seem to excel at heavier deeper tones vs the lighter more open tones the other kit produces.

I would go with Clear Emps on the batter and CLear Ambs on the reso side. You can always use rings/Moon Gel/bit of tape to modify the sound if more muffling is desired.
I've noticed this, too. On my Unix bubinga kit, certain heads that sound great on other kits I've had, don't sound as good...and vice-versa.

The clear emps over clear ambs is a *great* combo...there's something magic about clear emperors. They seem to produce a super-deep, fat tone. I'm going to replace my clear amb. batters w/ those, once they've lived a full life.
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Old 04-09-2009, 07:13 PM
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Default Re: Umm...What happenend to Pinstripes??

Clear Emperors became a favorite of mine after using Pinstripes for years and years. I got a set of them when the store didn't have all of the Pins in my sizes. After I got the emps and put them on, I was sorry I didn't try them sooner. They growl on my 10, 12 & 14 toms. They had a nice biting snap (which some don't like) followed by a nice sustain.
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Old 04-10-2009, 12:21 AM
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Default Re: Umm...What happenend to Pinstripes??

Quote:
Originally Posted by zambizzi View Post
I've noticed this, too. On my Unix bubinga kit, certain heads that sound great on other kits I've had, don't sound as good...and vice-versa.

The clear emps over clear ambs is a *great* combo...there's something magic about clear emperors. They seem to produce a super-deep, fat tone. I'm going to replace my clear amb. batters w/ those, once they've lived a full life.
Clear Emp. over clear Amb., that's what I'm running on my Rogers XP-8's right now. Great combo.............on a high end kit like the Unix...I bet they do sound good.
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Old 04-10-2009, 01:18 AM
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Default Re: Umm...What happenend to Pinstripes??

Quote:
Originally Posted by godsmurfrmc View Post
Im a beginner drummer, just stated having lessons and my kit cost me 200. its very basic but ive been upgrading my cymbals, snares and heads since. The first set of heads i purchased were Remo Ambassador coated for the batter head of my 12" 13" and 16" toms. to be honest i didnt really know what i was doing. I play mainly rock music and a bit of metal (not recording or anything) and i realised that the heads i bought arent really suited to my music.....or are they?

Should i just get a Pinstripe pack?
I find all heads are usefull, it depends upon the tuning. It sounds to me like pinnies would suit you fine. They are long wearing, have metal hoops that don't bend and affect tuning (unlike the aforementioned Evans) and will last you a long time. I believe pinnies will last a LOT longer than any Evans head. I use them from time to time on the kick.

I see many people posting regarding some sort of quality control issue at Remo. I cannot speak for them but as for me, in 3 decades of playing Remo heads I have never once had a problem. And believe me, I have many drums to head, including all kinds of hand drums. I use Remos on congas, bata, bongos, tambourines etc etc. I have never had a problem.
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Old 04-10-2009, 05:02 PM
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Default Re: Umm...What happenend to Pinstripes??

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Originally Posted by wolfmoon View Post
The G 2 will be wide open with some overtones. The EC 2 will also sound open but without the ringy overtones. I like both.
The better one learns to tune, the more those "ringy overtones" become a "lively drum sound." A poorly-tuned drum has obnoxious overtones--a well-tuned drum has nice-sounding overtones.

Also: it makes a difference if you play out miked or unmiked. For a miked situation you can use as muffled heads as you want. But if you play out unmiked, you need some ring and sustain for the drums to be heard. True of snares, bass drums, and toms.
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Old 04-10-2009, 06:33 PM
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Default Re: Umm...What happenend to Pinstripes??

It also matters what music he wants to play. How often do you hear rock and heavy metal with jazz toms? I understand where you "open toned guys" are coming from, but if he likes a more controlled sound, let him play with a controlled sound, there's nothing wrong with that. It's not like lower end drums have a great ability to have good overtones anyway.
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Old 04-10-2009, 07:25 PM
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Default Re: Umm...What happenend to Pinstripes??

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Originally Posted by metallica246810 View Post
It also matters what music he wants to play. How often do you hear rock and heavy metal with jazz toms? I understand where you "open toned guys" are coming from, but if he likes a more controlled sound, let him play with a controlled sound, there's nothing wrong with that. It's not like lower end drums have a great ability to have good overtones anyway.
How often do your actually hear their toms period? They pretty much sample replace the entire kit anyway in that genre
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Old 04-12-2009, 11:40 PM
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Default Re: Umm...What happenend to Pinstripes??

Personally I think Pinstripe heads always sound like plastic. If you want a thicker, deader sound then something like Emperors is fine. G2s are brighter than Emperors but have the same thick sound. I like the response and variety of sound that a single ply can give, but that's just me. Don't forget Remo CS heads either! Single ply heads with a dot in the middle for a focused sound. Evans EC1s would be similar, but more muffled. The funny thing about muffled heads is that people tend to buy them who like to play loud. Sort of ironic isn't it? Muffled heads only yield one or two sounds from a drum and typically only a few dynamic levels (loud, thud, and plastic thud). I would suggest an open head and using Moon Gels or something for situations where you want a drier sound but still get that body from the drum. Remember muffled drums sound terrible from the audience compared to a 'sweet controlled sound' behind the kit they seem to give. The exception are miced/triggered drums of the modern era. However, if you want a full drum sound that can be heard, ESPECIALLY in loud music, go for an open head, whether that is single or double ply. I'd suggest Remo Ambassador (classic tone) Remo Emperor (deep classic) Evans G2 (brighter thick) Evans GPlus (warm medium) Evans G1 (open modernish) Aquarian Classic (warmer medium) Remo CS (like an Ambassador with a more dead center)
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Old 04-15-2009, 06:16 AM
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Default Re: Umm...What happenend to Pinstripes??

Quote:
Originally Posted by godsmurfrmc View Post
Im a beginner drummer, just stated having lessons and my kit cost me 200. its very basic but ive been upgrading my cymbals, snares and heads since. The first set of heads i purchased were Remo Ambassador coated for the batter head of my 12" 13" and 16" toms. to be honest i didnt really know what i was doing. I play mainly rock music and a bit of metal (not recording or anything) and i realised that the heads i bought arent really suited to my music.....or are they?

I need some advice to be hones. my toms sound quite cool and loud and are very resonant but they sound a bit funny with my music, they sound a bit jazzy. I do not want to make this mistake again as i do not have the money to throw around. I was looking on the internet for optimum heads and i previously heard that pinstripes were good for rock music with a more bassy sound. but i was simply scanning the internet to confirm my thoughts about pinstripes and it seems that now every1 ive talked to are saying the pinstripes are not very good and i should try emperors and evans heads and all sorts. id rather stick with remo heads for now but will someone just help me out. what are the best heads for my style of plating? i play rock music and i am looking for lower pitched sounds with less overtones. Should i just get a Pinstripe pack?
You're getting some good advice here and I am going to add my own.

Yes, Pinstripes sound plasticy from behind the drums. However, out front and/or miked up they actually do sound good and you will understand why some people prefer them. They will control the sound and muffle the drum (this will mean the drums won't be as loud as say with an Ambassador). Killing the overtones means killing the volume the drum will produce.

As for my preferences, I use clear Ambassadors on both sides. However, that being said, I play all different types of shows and have some time under my belt. There was a time that I wouldn’t give an Ambassador a second glance. The Pinstripe was designed for a lower tuning, even lower than the Emperor, which is also a good choice. What it all boils down to is sound and durability. What sound do you want out of the drum? How much are you playing? This is important as well because if you are playing four hours every night, then an Ambassador is going to wear out quicker than an Emperor or a Pinstripe. Also, many of us drummers have a tendency to find one thing and stick with it begrudgingly, regardless of what the musical situation calls for (the world won’t end at 10”, 12” 14”) and while anything can be made to work, there are tools which work better because they were designed to. Think of it as the difference between a socket wrench and an open end wrench. They each have their forte’s. For instance, Bermuda and I have talked before about the sound of the toms on Bryan Adam’s “Cuts like a Knife” track; one of the best toms sounds ever recorded. How did they get that sound? There was, according to Bermuda, a lot more at work than just the heads.

According to your post, you are looking for a lower, Rock sound with less overtones. One of the posts (or more) advise against buying a pre-pack. How about an A-B test clear Emperor vs a Clear Pinstripe on the 12” tom?

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  #31  
Old 04-15-2009, 07:26 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
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Posts: 762
Default Re: Umm...What happenend to Pinstripes??

Here is a Remo Pinstripe VS Remo Emperor video done with an internal mic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiqbYB61ClE
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