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  #721  
Old 03-26-2009, 09:45 PM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

Quote:
Originally Posted by trkdrmr View Post
I just got up after 12 hours in a sleep-debt coma. I cannot ATM recall the rush lyrics referring to (paraphrasing because I can't even get this part right):

"The weight of darkness pushing down on me"

Describing a motorcycle ride.
Hi trk.

Don't remember where that line's from, but I swear it sounds like an anagram of a line somewhere in "Double Agent".
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  #722  
Old 03-26-2009, 10:01 PM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

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Hi trk.

Don't remember where that line's from, but I swear it sounds like an anagram of a line somewhere in "Double Agent".
YEP!
"On the edge of sleep, I was drifting for half the night
Anxious and restless, pressed down by the darkness
Bound up and wound up so tight'

So tight...

'So many decisions, a million revisions
Caught between darkness and light...'"

Thanks for the neurostimulus.
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  #723  
Old 03-26-2009, 10:10 PM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

Yeah, i was always taken by mr Peart's lyrical prowess. It reads like true poetry, most often in iambic pentameter. If Mr Peart lost his limbs in an accident, he'd still be an accomplished poet.

Oh yeah, we're on DW, he's a darn good drummer too. =P
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  #724  
Old 03-26-2009, 10:16 PM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

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Originally Posted by diosdude View Post
Yeah, i was always taken by mr Peart's lyrical prowess. It reads like true poetry, most often in iambic pentameter. If Mr Peart lost his limbs in an accident, he'd still be an accomplished poet.

Oh yeah, we're on DW, he's a darn good drummer too. =P
He plays the drums too??? Wow! for over 30 years? He should be inducted into the rock and roll hall of fame!
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  #725  
Old 03-26-2009, 11:08 PM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

Guys, guys, guys...


If you haven't realized his genius after all he's done...


just stay in your cave. :-|


Yea...I know you guys are in jest. ;-)


Uhh...I hope. :-|


:-)
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  #726  
Old 03-26-2009, 11:20 PM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

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Originally Posted by michael drums View Post
Guys, guys, guys...


If you haven't realized his genius after all he's done...


just stay in your cave. :-|


Yea...I know you guys are in jest. ;-)


Uhh...I hope. :-|


:-)
It was an ironic statement.
Yep... the R&R hall of fame has made itself an in-joke. Rush should have been in there 10 years ago. With the album and concert sales they have as well as following, there is absolutely no excuse besides someone inside the organization has issues.

Neil Peart not in the R&R hall of fame is like not putting Wayne Gretzky in the hockey hall of fame because someone doesn't like it that he left the oilers. The reason Rush isn't in the R&R hall of fame has to do with internal poltics, nothing else supports an omission.
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  #727  
Old 03-27-2009, 02:26 AM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

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Originally Posted by trkdrmr View Post
It was an ironic statement.
Yep... the R&R hall of fame has made itself an in-joke. Rush should have been in there 10 years ago. With the album and concert sales they have as well as following, there is absolutely no excuse besides someone inside the organization has issues.

Neil Peart not in the R&R hall of fame is like not putting Wayne Gretzky in the hockey hall of fame because someone doesn't like it that he left the oilers. The reason Rush isn't in the R&R hall of fame has to do with internal poltics, nothing else supports an omission.
The rock n roll hall of fame is a joke.

The museum is $20 to get in, but they don't have much more than the average Hard Rock café.

Selections make little sense, with so many rock bands left out, yet Madonna gets in. *shakeshead*
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  #728  
Old 03-27-2009, 02:33 AM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

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Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum View Post
The rock n roll hall of fame is a joke.

The museum is $20 to get in, but they don't have much more than the average Hard Rock café.

Selections make little sense, with so many rock bands left out, yet Madonna gets in. *shakeshead*
Really? that sucks. That sounds like nothing more than the interactive R&R museum in Seattle. That costs about the same, and 90% of it is PC terminals so you are basically surfing a database.
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  #729  
Old 03-27-2009, 03:43 AM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

Oh Yes!

You guys are correct, Sirs. It's a travesty that Rush hasn't been elected into the H of F. :-(

Which just goes to show, that it is a disheveled organization that is made up of pompous, stuck-up, unappreciative individuals that have no business deciding who does or does not deserve to be members of itself.

Jealousy, IMO, is a huge part of it. :-(


Ughh...
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  #730  
Old 03-27-2009, 04:09 AM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

But then again, jealousy is so much of everything, isn't it Michael?
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  #731  
Old 03-27-2009, 04:57 AM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

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Jealousy, IMO, is a huge part of it. :-(
Not sure about jealousy. I have a feeling it's for the same reasons rolling stone doesn't do much for progressive rock and took about 30 years to interview Rush. It's a combination of curmudgeon and perception of pop hipness.

Britney Spears will be in there before Rush is just due to album sales to "tweens." She doesn't even appear on my radar as a singer, much less a HOF caliber talent.
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  #732  
Old 03-27-2009, 09:25 AM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

Ok all.

Number 3 on the countdown towards Neil Peart's best solo has been posted at TheParadiddler.com!

Neil Peart's Solos Ranked - Number 3

The countdown's almost over, but there's still much to say! What say you?
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  #733  
Old 03-28-2009, 02:24 AM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

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Originally Posted by trkdrmr View Post
Britney Spears will be in there before Rush is just due to album sales to "tweens." She doesn't even appear on my radar as a singer, much less a HOF caliber talent.
But those Britney "tweens" would probably think the same thing if Geddy were in and she wasn't...

See how that works...
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  #734  
Old 03-28-2009, 02:26 AM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

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Originally Posted by michael drums View Post
Oh Yes!

Jealousy, IMO, is a huge part of it. :-(


Ughh...
Thats a rediculous statement...
At some point you will realize not everyone is obligated to like Rush....
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  #735  
Old 03-28-2009, 09:20 AM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

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Originally Posted by LinearDrummer View Post
Thats a rediculous statement...
At some point you will realize not everyone is obligated to like Rush....
No they're not, and I understand when people don't like them. It's their personal taste. Nothing wrong with that. But to not induct the rock band that comes in at #4 all time for consecutive gold or platinum records is a joke. (Beatles, Rolling Stones and Aerosmith are 1,2, and 3).

How the Rock & Roll hall of lame can overlook their contributions to rock is beyond me. Madonna being inducted before Rush should tell most people what the R&RHoF is all about.
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  #736  
Old 03-28-2009, 11:11 PM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

I am not really a Neil Peart fan, but this has much to do with the fact that I am not really a Rush fan. If they had a good singer and a keyboard player, they could be a lot better, and more varied. But then again, they wouldn't be who they are. Millions of folks are happy who they are.

Peart's style is a bit too mechanical for my tastes, and being a jazz nut, I love improvisation, rather than the airtight, rote style Rush plays. I also think he overplays a bit, but that is a VERY subjective evaluation.

That said, I have great respect for Peart because:

A. He is the most influential drummer of his generation (my generation is the era before Peart. Carl Palmer was my hero, the Peart of his era. Yet Palmer also has limitations).

B. He is greatly regarded, not only by fanboys, but by established professionals. Do you think all those great drummers would have contributed on Burning for Buddy if they considered him a fraud?

C. As an admirer of technical proficiency, I get great joy listening to Peart's sticking.

D. His passion. He absolutely LIVES for his craft.

E. My heart also goes out to him for his unspeakable tragedy.

Keith Moon once famously responded to a question by a journalist regarding who the best drummer is by saying, "Who's the best? I have no idea. What is a style?"

Indeed. Is Peart better (or worse) than Gadd, Coliauta, Weckl, Palmer, etc?

NO! They, and MANY others, are ALL titans of the skins. If Neil is your favorite drummer, be proud of that! He is as worthy a choice as anyone, and more worthy than most.

As for his lyrics, I could really care less. I was into Ayn Rand in high school, but outgrew her when I went to college and later entered the workforce. Perhaps the way he plays drums is reflective of Rand's Objectivism philosophy. It is hard to argue with, but Objectivism is soulless. Like Rush, all meticulous precision. After the plug is pulled, we all are worm food. No God. No soul.

As an aside, the quote "It's not the destination, but the journey" has been used by Harley-Davidson for decades, probably before Neil was born. As an avid motorcyclist, he fully understands the allure of the open road, and after logging 55,000 on his bike after the deaths, he lived the life of the road.
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  #737  
Old 03-29-2009, 12:38 AM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

GavGator,

You bring up interesting points and I enjoyed reading your post. Why do you think Carl Palmer was the Peart of his era? I am not that familiar with Carl's playing other than radio hits. I ask this because I could sort of hear similarities in both players too.

I think the Burning for Buddy was more "money talks" because Modern Drummer wrote something like "only Peart had the financial ability to pull of such a project" out of any other drummer. Must be cool to be so rich from playing drums you could hire many of the best out there to play on your project. What do any of you think?
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  #738  
Old 03-29-2009, 03:50 PM
CavGator CavGator is offline
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Default Re: Neil Peart

Well, in the beginning, there was Gene, Louie and, of course Buddy. These were the drummers that made the drums the showcase of the band.

Carl Palmer was, with Mitch Mitchell, the first of the wave of technical drummers that came to rock in the late sixties and early seventies, emulating the style of the big band drummers. The paradigm of the era for the young drummers was the power drummer, be it Peter (Ginger) Baker, Moonie, Bonham and many others. All three were incredibly powerful drummers, but none had the speed and finesse of Mitchell and Palmer. So many young drummers (I among them), while appreciative of the power guys (I memorized every Zep drum track and even tried to play Who songs like Moon), was dazzled by Palmer, whose virtuosity was not grounded in a blues-based foundation (even Mitchell was blues and bebop based), but rather, with the complex classically-based structures of Bartok, Prokofiev, Janacek, and many other 19th and 20th century composers.

It was something completely different, something Keith Emerson and Greg Lake wanted as part of their sound, a radical departure from the blues-based direction of rock. Mitch Mitchell auditioned for what would become ELP, but neither party was comfortable with the chemistry. Jimi Hendrix was even interested in joining (he was knocked out by ELP at the Isle of Wight festival), but died before the first rehearsals were scheduled. God only knows what HELP would have produced!

If you ever were a band geek and was exposed to a wide range of classical music, as I was in my formative years, you could not HELP but be knocked out by the speed, dexterity and style of Carl Palmer. Most rock fans had Bonham as their paragon, but at least in my part of the world, most drummers idealized Palmer, Mitchell, Cobham, Danny Seraphine and others whose chops and speed were extraordinary. Some say flashy, pretentious and self-indulgent, but then again, many said that about Buddy as well. There is a place for all styles; it only depends on what one prefers.

Fast forward to the late 1970s. Progressive rock's peak has crested, to be replaced by punk and arena rock. Out of Canada comes this power trio that featured a drummer that, like Palmer, Bruford and others several years earlier, was not content to simply keep 4/4 time as loud as possible. Once Rush refined their sound to appeal to a larger audience than the metal crowd, everyone started to sit up and take notice of a talent the metal heads knew all along.

Even today, while many thousands of drummers still prefer the frontal assaults of power drummers like Travis Barker and Tommy Lee (among many other great power drummers), thousands of others prefer the dexterity and virtuosity of Neil Peart, the man who carried the torch from Mitchell, Palmer and other virtuosos before him. Because of Peart, there are many drummers out there who gladly pick up where Peart left off, and a new generation will follow them.

The radio hits of ELP is not really a true measure of Palmer's talent. Download The Barbarian, Tarkus, and Pictures at an Exhibition, and you will hear an amazing demonstration of power, speed and endurance. Palmer was never a groove master, and often varied in his timekeeping (one of the charms, actually, as it allowed the music to breathe). Then again, I can imagine ANY drummer, be it Gadd, Vinnie or whomever, would struggle keeping good meter going 200 BPM or faster in 5/4 time, having to keep up with arguably the greatest rock keyboardist of all time, someone who liked to play even faster in concert to show off HIS chops. On Keith Emerson's recent solo album, he covered The Barbarian with Greg Bissonette, an amazingly talented drummer. As great as Greg is, it does not have the energy and power Palmer had on the original version. Check it out.

Last edited by CavGator; 03-29-2009 at 08:48 PM.
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  #739  
Old 03-29-2009, 08:37 PM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

I have to say, that was a treat to read. Thanks for the references to check out too. I know radio hits are really never indicative of a drummer's true ability. They play the original cut of "Closer to the Heart" every day on this "rock" station and it drives me nuts.

I will check out Palmer's material. I usually suggest Neil's songs: Tai shan, Territories, Vital signs, Cygnus X-1, Hemispheres, Time Stand Still, The Weapon, The Enemy Within and Scars to really get a sense of Neil's rhythms that he is capable of putting to music and play live in front of thousands.
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  #740  
Old 03-29-2009, 09:04 PM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

I don't want this to turn into a CP thread, there is one already but I will say I discovered Palmer's work before Pearts by a few years.

I was always impressed by the speed, power and precision he had. Not to mention the sound of his snare and drum kit. His kit was used for more than just thudding on. He had to influence Peart in many ways.

"Ani music" included a classical bit as an homage to Palmer, it's the creator's favorite band and drummer. He wanted to consciously avoid mimicking Palmer in the piece. He explains it in the dvd commentary.

Finally, I thought Carl was tasteful and I enjoyed his work with ASIA.

I am saying all of this because he did all of it long before the internet, and I can see for those that grew up with him that there is a tendency to go overboard with praising Peart and say "Carl who?" Knowing Palmer's contributions adds a historical perspective to "reign in" the modern perspective.
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  #741  
Old 03-30-2009, 03:17 AM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

Neil Finally makes it into a movie, in person (not animated). In the new Paul Rudd "bromance" "I love you man" one of the characters has a cool man-cave.

Inside, is 3 posters of Rush, and a clear Ludwig vistalite kit which gets a number of close ups. Rush music is used through the movie culminating in the guys attending a Rush concert. This movie definitely pays a lot of Homage to Rush and Neil.

Last edited by trkdrmr; 03-30-2009 at 08:12 AM.
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  #742  
Old 04-03-2009, 03:38 AM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

I'm totally digging the tone of Neil Peart's kit from Grace Under Pressure to Hold your Fire.

Especially the hi-hat and the ride. So smooth, so crisp! Who manufactured those amazing cymbals?



Anyway, I like Rush for the blonde guy, not Neil Peart. I like Peart for the tone and the beats. Seriously, the strong, simple beats on Power Windows and Hold Your Fire are awesome.
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  #743  
Old 04-03-2009, 03:54 AM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

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Originally Posted by Anne Beeche View Post
I'm totally digging the tone of Neil Peart's kit from Grace Under Pressure to Hold your Fire.

Especially the hi-hat and the ride. So smooth, so crisp! Who manufactured those amazing cymbals?



Anyway, I like Rush for the blonde guy, not Neil Peart. I like Peart for the tone and the beats. Seriously, the strong, simple beats on Power Windows and Hold Your Fire are awesome.
He used Zildjian A's back in the day. I think he used the 22" A ping ride.

The blonde guy is Alex Lifeson
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  #744  
Old 04-03-2009, 05:28 PM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

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Thats a rediculous statement...
At some point you will realize not everyone is obligated to like Rush....
Not rediculous at all, LD. :-|

And I never said that everyone is "obligated" to like Rush. It's just not reality to believe that everyone is gonna like 'em. I know that.

But I'm just referring to the, so-called, know-it-alls, at the R&RHoF. Who can't appreciate the contributions of a HUGELY supportive fan-based progressive rock band that's continued their musical quest for 35+ years now. And have established a VERY vast discography and a considerable videography, as well.

I just don't get what they DON'T get! :-|

Last edited by michael drums; 04-03-2009 at 11:33 PM.
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  #745  
Old 04-03-2009, 05:29 PM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

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Originally Posted by trkdrmr View Post
Neil Finally makes it into a movie, in person (not animated). In the new Paul Rudd "bromance" "I love you man" one of the characters has a cool man-cave.

Inside, is 3 posters of Rush, and a clear Ludwig vistalite kit which gets a number of close ups. Rush music is used through the movie culminating in the guys attending a Rush concert. This movie definitely pays a lot of Homage to Rush and Neil.
And, OH, isn't it about time, folks?! ;-)
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  #746  
Old 04-03-2009, 05:57 PM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

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And, OH, isn't it about time, folks?! ;-)
I think those guys are big Rush fans. There was a lot of that in Freaks and Geeks. Great show that was cancelled much too soon and done by alot of the same guys who are making so many hot movies today. The character played by Jason Segal has a Neil obsession and it's freakin hilarious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taB3U0b9zdA

It's only one season, but it was a great show that wasn't given much of a chance and never found much of an audience, I think due to a bad time slot. I don't even remember it being on, but got the DVDs from a friend and couldn't stop watching.
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  #747  
Old 04-03-2009, 10:36 PM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

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He used Zildjian A's back in the day. I think he used the 22" A ping ride.

The blonde guy is Alex Lifeson
Aha! I figured. Shame he moved away from Zildjian. His tone's not ugly, but it doesn't impress me anymore. I like that tambourine trigger, though. I want to invent an acoustic version sometime in the future. (I'm not into sampler equipment.)

Yep, I'm well aware who the blonde guy is. I have a raging celebrity crush on him. Seriously, if I were his age I'd hit that.

Oh, and supposedly Neil doesn't like publicity. Maybe that's why he's never made many pop culture appearances.
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  #748  
Old 04-03-2009, 11:48 PM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

Actually...

in reality, the "main" reason Rush hasn't been elected into the R&RHoF is because of their refusal to conform to the powers that be and become "radio friendly" with their music.

In other words, Rush will NEVER become a "Top 40" band. And that's what the "powers that be", at the HOF look for in a band. This, by the way, is what's "rediculous". And a very shallow way of determining a HOF worthy band or act. But I've known this for a number of years now. I believe it was first mentioned by Alex Lifeson in an interview 'bout 10 years ago or so. And it certainly makes sense.

Rush has ALWAYS been about their fans. Not the music industry moguls that influence the HOF.

And that's a shame. :-(
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  #749  
Old 04-04-2009, 03:20 AM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

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Originally Posted by Anne Beeche View Post
Aha! I figured. Shame he moved away from Zildjian. His tone's not ugly, but it doesn't impress me anymore. I like that tambourine trigger, though. I want to invent an acoustic version sometime in the future. (I'm not into sampler equipment.)

Yep, I'm well aware who the blonde guy is. I have a raging celebrity crush on him. Seriously, if I were his age I'd hit that.

Oh, and supposedly Neil doesn't like publicity. Maybe that's why he's never made many pop culture appearances.
The tambourine can be attached to a floor bracket that is played by a BD pedal. LP makes one Gajate Bracket I think. I have one and use it for that very reason (I play the tribal waltz part in my solo too). 35 bucks or so.

The RRHOF is getting slammed pretty hard here. I will say that Rush should be in there. But I have been there a couple of times. The section with Jimi Hendrix's childhood artwork and lyrics is mind blowing. The mini theatre also played never-before-seen footage of Jimi in concert. It was so incredibly powerful. I could only imagine what that was like in the first five rows in concert.

The section that had memorabilia from blues greats choked me up a bit. This is where it all started. These poor men had only their clothes on their backs, a guitar, an amp and a single suit case. They travelled town to town looking to play. The RRHOF may be far from perfect, but then again, when being judged by people that belong to a discussion forum, what is?
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  #750  
Old 04-04-2009, 10:24 AM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

Hello again!

Number two on the countdown towards Neil Peart's best solo has been posted at TheParadiddler.com. Here's the article:

Neil Peart's Solos Ranked - #2

Well, we now know which one is #1, but enjoy this one in the meantime! Comment away!
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  #751  
Old 04-04-2009, 03:54 PM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

Yes paradiddler, that was my first Rush concert. That video has been in bootleg circulation for almost 10 years. Like I posted earlier, Primus opened for them and the entire night was incredible.

Neil was very aggressive that night. They opened with Dreamline and the entire show just cranked forward. I was able to see his footwork and saw the foot trigger tambourine use during Nobody's Hero. When he unveiled the 3/4 waltz tribal pattern, it blew my mind. The palace was going nuts. I don't think a mass audience has ever seen that type of stuff before.

I have to say, the best solo I ever saw from him was during TFE at an ampitheatre down the road called Pine Knob (Now called Energy Povider for Neighborhood Homes Music Theatre). During the Momo dance party and then scars part, the entire crowd clapped along (all standing). When he was done, the crowd cheered for, I kid you not, 5 or so minutes. It was quite simply the greatest solo and show of homage to a long standing drum legend. Geddy and Alex came out clapping too and Geddy asked the crowd "how about that drummer guy?"

Wish that was on video.
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  #752  
Old 04-04-2009, 07:09 PM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

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Yes paradiddler, that was my first Rush concert. That video has been in bootleg circulation for almost 10 years. Like I posted earlier, Primus opened for them and the entire night was incredible.

Neil was very aggressive that night. They opened with Dreamline and the entire show just cranked forward. I was able to see his footwork and saw the foot trigger tambourine use during Nobody's Hero. When he unveiled the 3/4 waltz tribal pattern, it blew my mind. The palace was going nuts. I don't think a mass audience has ever seen that type of stuff before.

I have to say, the best solo I ever saw from him was during TFE at an ampitheatre down the road called Pine Knob (Now called Energy Povider for Neighborhood Homes Music Theatre). During the Momo dance party and then scars part, the entire crowd clapped along (all standing). When he was done, the crowd cheered for, I kid you not, 5 or so minutes. It was quite simply the greatest solo and show of homage to a long standing drum legend. Geddy and Alex came out clapping too and Geddy asked the crowd "how about that drummer guy?"

Wish that was on video.
Hi Zumba.

Great stuff from you! See, that's what irks me about the Different Stages solo. It just seems like he was off that night, and from what you're telling me, during the same tour he had one of his best performances! Maybe that one should have been included on Different Stages instead. You read my review of that performance yet?

Anyways, thanks for reading!
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  #753  
Old 04-05-2009, 12:49 AM
CavGator CavGator is offline
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Default Re: Neil Peart

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Originally Posted by Zumba_Zumba View Post
The tambourine can be attached to a floor bracket that is played by a BD pedal. LP makes one Gajate Bracket I think. I have one and use it for that very reason (I play the tribal waltz part in my solo too). 35 bucks or so.

The RRHOF is getting slammed pretty hard here. I will say that Rush should be in there. But I have been there a couple of times. The section with Jimi Hendrix's childhood artwork and lyrics is mind blowing. The mini theatre also played never-before-seen footage of Jimi in concert. It was so incredibly powerful. I could only imagine what that was like in the first five rows in concert.

The section that had memorabilia from blues greats choked me up a bit. This is where it all started. These poor men had only their clothes on their backs, a guitar, an amp and a single suit case. They travelled town to town looking to play. The RRHOF may be far from perfect, but then again, when being judged by people that belong to a discussion forum, what is?
Zumba, the problem many of us prog rock lovers have against the R&R HoF is that they have a HUGE problem with us and our preferred genre. Rush is nothing more than the latest example of intentional exclusion. Dream Theater will be the next pariah.

According to Bill Bruford in his autobiography (who is better suited to comment on this than him?), the Powers That Be (Christgau, Marsh, Wenner and those influenced by Lester Bangs) convict progressive rock on three counts:

1. Generally, their lyrics are not political. Indeed, many do not HAVE lyrics (hence their hatred of jazz fusion);

2. They overemphasize what they consider high culture (classical music), rather than jazz, R&B and blues. In their eyes, proggers are attempting to "educate" the unwashed masses with higher quality music, which would make them elitists, and;

3. They were extremely successful commercially, in spite of the scathing reviews.

If a musician is considered a technical virtuoso, well trained and versed in the theory of music (can sight read, etc), they will be looked askance by those who measure a musician's credibility by:

a. Growing up on the wrong side of the tracks, thereby establishing street credibility;

b. Being angry and rebellious, thereby reflecting the desired political positions;

c. Working their way up the music ladder not through the church or university (formal training), but instead, through the garage (preferably after quitting high school), to the club scene, to the grind of the road, to major stardom. And then again, even reaching major stardom can be a burden. The Arbitors of Greatness tend to prefer the Iggy Pop/Ramones/Patti Smith model of commercial poverty, in favor of "artistic purity," as they would define it.

These frustrated musicians who became hack writers for the likes of Rolling Stone and Creem couldn't cut it with the axe, keyboard, kit, horn or mike, so they appoint themselves as the Gatekeepers of the Sanctuary, and will jealously guard their preferences. This is why artists are being inducted 2-3 times, and bands that couldn't open for the prog giants of yesterday and today are being inducted. They attempt to dismiss progressive rock as a pop fad, akin to the likes of the Spice Girls and Britney Spears.

This will change sooner or later. Yes, ELP, Genesis, King Crimson, Jethro Tull and Rush will eventually get in, I think, but if they don't let your heart not suffer. It will be a badge of honor NOT to get in if they retain their ridiculous criteria.

Remember, they waited until he died to finally induct Frank Zappa, probably the most influential musician, bandleader and arranger of the last 50 years. There are your standards.
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Old 04-05-2009, 01:56 AM
michael drums
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Default Re: Neil Peart

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The tambourine can be attached to a floor bracket that is played by a BD pedal. LP makes one Gajate Bracket I think. I have one and use it for that very reason (I play the tribal waltz part in my solo too). 35 bucks or so.

The RRHOF is getting slammed pretty hard here. I will say that Rush should be in there. But I have been there a couple of times. The section with Jimi Hendrix's childhood artwork and lyrics is mind blowing. The mini theatre also played never-before-seen footage of Jimi in concert. It was so incredibly powerful. I could only imagine what that was like in the first five rows in concert.

The section that had memorabilia from blues greats choked me up a bit. This is where it all started. These poor men had only their clothes on their backs, a guitar, an amp and a single suit case. They travelled town to town looking to play. The RRHOF may be far from perfect, but then again, when being judged by people that belong to a discussion forum, what is?
Well, ZZ...

I call it like I see it. Whether it's on a discussion forum, in a newspaper, or in a magazine, I exercise my freedom of speech and WILL judge the criteria for election of the R&RHoF. If it's wrong...well, I'll say so.

I'm not saying that they don't have credible examples of who they HAVE elected, 'cause we all know that they are filled with many many worthy rock bands and acts that certainly deserve their place.

But to leave out a band like Rush, after what they've accomplished, well...I cry foul. And Rush isn't the only one either, as has been mentioned above. There are others that deserve it just as much.

Oops!

See...I get a little off topic , too. :-|

Sorry 'bout that. Hope we can get back to the specific topic...The Professor! ;-)
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  #755  
Old 04-05-2009, 02:13 AM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

This Hall of Fame discussion is interesting, but in all due respect seems beyond any prescribed formula or conspiracy based agenda.

One poster has stated that having hits was a requirement, whereas I can't recall the Sex Pistols or Miles Davis ever getting close, past SP's #93 US Billboard showing with Pretty Vacant, and Miles's Kind of Blue taking 40 years to go platinum.

Bruford cites their hatred for jazz fusion, but Miles, who spent the lion's share of his career as a mainstream jazz musician, got in not for things like Birth of the Cool or ESP, but for ground breaking jazz fusion like Bitches Brew, Jack Johnson and On the Corner.

Bruford also cites the necessity for anger and rebellion, yet the deserving Jethro Tull is not in, and covered the rebellion angle pretty well. Remenber the lyrics Jesus saves but he better save himself? That was probably very serious stuff in 1971.

Besides, even if there has been bias /that will most likely soon be rectified/, isn't it going to make more sense for ELP to get in first, since they were sort of the beginnings of that genre, the innovators if you will?

Interesting sidebar: Zappa made the Down Beat Jazz Hall of Fame a full decade before the Rock HOF got around to it.

In my opinion, I don't see bias against Rush as much as I see a random and haphazard voting criterion, that blows around in the wind, with no special purpose one way or the other. I also understand that's no way to run a railroad.
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  #756  
Old 04-05-2009, 04:37 AM
CavGator CavGator is offline
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Default Re: Neil Peart

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Bruford cites their hatred for jazz fusion, but Miles, who spent the lion's share of his career as a mainstream jazz musician, got in not for things like Birth of the Cool or ESP, but for ground breaking jazz fusion like Bitches Brew, Jack Johnson and On the Corner.
I think Miles got in because of his pioneering efforts in the 1950s, as well as his influence. It was elected in SPITE of Bitches Brew and his foray into jazz fusion.

Quote:
Bruford also cites the necessity for anger and rebellion, yet the deserving Jethro Tull is not in, and covered the rebellion angle pretty well. Remenber the lyrics Jesus saves but he better save himself? That was probably very serious stuff in 1971.
Actually, it was rather tame, compared to the hypercharged political lyrics of the day. Iconoclastic lyrics were rather passe. Indeed, if you read Jimmy Guterman's scathing 50 Worst Albums in Rock, he cites Aqualung as among the worst BECAUSE of what he perceived as infantile rants on religion, and Guterman is very, very much in the Bangs/Marsh/Christgau mold.

Quote:
Besides, even if there has been bias /that will most likely soon be rectified/, isn't it going to make more sense for ELP to get in first, since they were sort of the beginnings of that genre, the innovators if you will?
When pigs fly.

Quote:
Interesting sidebar: Zappa made the Down Beat Jazz Hall of Fame a full decade before the Rock HOF got around to it.
There is a reason for that.

Quote:
In my opinion, I don't see bias against Rush as much as I see a random and haphazard voting criterion, that blows around in the wind, with no special purpose one way or the other. I also understand that's no way to run a railroad.
As far as progressive rock is concerned, the giants of the genre have LONG passed the 25-year barrier for their debut album, and only Pink Floyd (not really considered progressive rock, with their blues-based, plodding rhythm) is in. None of the others get as much as a sniff. In their day, however, they were as big as the Stones, Zeppelin, the Who and Elton John, by largely the SAME audience, as evidence by their platinum sales and stadium sellouts. The audience was not a mindless teeny bopper crowd. This drove the Powers That Be crazy!

IMO, Rush is painted with the same brush: In their eyes, Rush is hyper-talented, self-indulgent, malice free, and worst of all, very successful. I think their chance of induction is somewhat enhanced by the relative newness of the band (compared to the earlier giants of the genre).

Who knows, if Peart simply was content to keep the beat, rather than be melodic and creative, they might have gotten in by now. But then again, they wouldn't be Rush, either, would they?

I have no doubt that Geddy, Alex and Neil are crying about being snubbed -- all the way to the bank. They are no passing fad. They earned their money doing what they believed was right.
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Old 04-05-2009, 07:25 AM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

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I think Miles got in because of his pioneering efforts in the 1950s, as well as his influence. It was elected in SPITE of Bitches Brew and his foray into jazz fusion..
It's a rock and roll hall of fame. Kind of Blue and Milestones doesn't make that happen. And if anyone still believed such a contention, all they had to do was view the Miles award ceremony where nothing but 70s styled fusion was played with a dash of Marcus Miller thrown in, while Herbie Hancock was there not to reintroduce the 2nd classic quintet, but to show his Miles related fusion influences. No, Miles Davis got into the rock and roll hall of fame because some of those 70s bands were among the most creative and influential rock configurations of their time. I am also aware that most don't get how Louie Armstrong qualified either, when his widespread popularization of Western African syncopation is the primary reason why rock vocalists /and everyone else from the past 100 years/ sings the way they do. His umbrella was too large to ignore.

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Originally Posted by CavGator View Post
Actually, it was rather tame, compared to the hypercharged political lyrics of the day. Iconoclastic lyrics were rather passe. Indeed, if you read Jimmy Guterman's scathing 50 Worst Albums in Rock, he cites Aqualung as among the worst BECAUSE of what he perceived as infantile rants on religion, and Guterman is very, very much in the Bangs/Marsh/Christgau mold...
You're obviously not from the American South, where even so called infantile religious lyrics are as confrontational as they come. Southerners have seen widespread political upheavel time and time again, but messing with the religious end can get you in a whale of hurt. Uneven urban critics like Guterman most certainly don't understand things like that. Besides, as many people over the years, have been laughing at Jimmy Guterman's overreaching assesments as have admired them. He's not exactly a poster child for the last word, that's for sure. Moreover, I would doubt that his vote influences no one else, that is if he still even has one.

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Originally Posted by CavGator View Post
When pigs fly...
If anything has been proven by this dialouge it is to prove that no one truly understands what those people are thinking. And yes, that works towards the detriment of Peart and company.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CavGator View Post
There is a reason for that..
Re: Zappa...Yeah I know. I am aware of few jazz musicians who don't at least have the complete Lather sessions.

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Originally Posted by CavGator View Post
As far as progressive rock is concerned, the giants of the genre have LONG passed the 25-year barrier for their debut album, and only Pink Floyd (not really considered progressive rock, with their blues-based, plodding rhythm) is in. None of the others get as much as a sniff. In their day, however, they were as big as the Stones, Zeppelin, the Who and Elton John, by largely the SAME audience, as evidence by their platinum sales and stadium sellouts. The audience was not a mindless teeny bopper crowd. This drove the Powers That Be crazy!

IMO, Rush is painted with the same brush: In their eyes, Rush is hyper-talented, self-indulgent, malice free, and worst of all, very successful. I think their chance of induction is somewhat enhanced by the relative newness of the band (compared to the earlier giants of the genre).

Who knows, if Peart simply was content to keep the beat, rather than be melodic and creative, they might have gotten in by now. But then again, they wouldn't be Rush, either, would they?

I have no doubt that Geddy, Alex and Neil are crying about being snubbed -- all the way to the bank. They are no passing fad. They earned their money doing what they believed was right.
Your assesments about the popularity of early prog rock seem to be dead on true, but I still don't observe the agendas some of the rest of you do. I would suspect in the next 2-3 years, there will be a kind of prog. rock induction scenario that will include ELP, Tull and Yes at the same ceremony. Another couple of years will follow, then you will see Rush.

And if pigs do fly, then hey, it's rock and roll.
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  #758  
Old 04-05-2009, 09:26 AM
KlarkKent KlarkKent is offline
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Default Re: Neil Peart

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This Hall of Fame discussion is interesting, but in all due respect seems beyond any prescribed formula or conspiracy based agenda.

One poster has stated that having hits was a requirement, whereas I can't recall the Sex Pistols or Miles Davis ever getting close, past SP's #93 US Billboard showing with Pretty Vacant, and Miles's Kind of Blue taking 40 years to go platinum.
Actually, the Sex Pistols did have a major hit in "God Save the Queen" in May 1977, a single which sparked a lot of upheaval and social irritation. They released this song during Queen Elizabeth's Jubilee celebrations--something which the patriotic public took enormous offensive at--almost like giving the Royal Family a big, fat, blatant "V" sign. The song made it to number one on the New Musical Express charts in the UK, but the song was slighted at #2 on the official BBC UK Singles Chart. In fact, I think some printings of the BBC chart listings back then left the slot blank as a way to censor the band.

If you want to talk about blistering lyrics, then I agree with CavGator about his "tame" comment. Mattsmith makes a good point about the American South and religion, however; I lived there for a time and some people in the North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia corridor possess a religious attitude that dates back to the 1950s. Extremely conservative and, depending on your point of view, amazingly close minded.

Punks in England, though, really ruffled feathers--and followed not too far off of 1971. A lot of the English were angered by John Lydon's (aka Johnny Rotten) satire on the Royal Family ("God save the Queen/She ain't no human being/And there's no future in England's dreaming"), and he was even jumped and knifed by some National Front lads who took a racist pro-British/pro-white view of English life and were thus angered by Rotten's attack on the icon of Englishness.

I think a lot of lyrics coming out of the punk and post-punk scene in England were a lot more severe than Jethro Tull--they sort of took the political critique in some prog rock, like Tull, and raised the volume level well past 11. Think of Marxist/Christian-inspired The Housemartins, a very popular pop band from the North of England, who, in 1986, wrote in the song "Get Up Off Our Knees":

Quote:
Famines will be famines, banquets will be banquets
Some spend winter in a palace, some spend it in blankets
Don’t wag your fingers at them and turn to walk away
Don’t shoot someone tomorrow that you can shoot today
Combine such lyrics with the ironic "Christmas Message" from the band printed in the sleeve of their London 0, Hull 4 album: "For too long the ruling class have enjoyed an extended New Years Eve Party, whilst we can only watch, faces pressed up against the glass. The Housemartins say: 'Don't try gate crashing a party full of bankers. Burn the house down!' Take Jesus - Take Marx - Take Hope."

Extremely controversial, particularly at the height of the Reagan/Thatcher era. This, of course, does not lessen or diminish the impact of Tull's lyric in 1971 (and if we want to talk 1971, then Kubrick's shocking A Clockwork Orange, which was in theatres in England then, would also be a good gauge of serious/alarming stuff), but the Pistols inspired a whole new era of charged criticism that can indeed make Jethro Tull and others look kittenishly tame.

(Another good example: Morrissey released the song "Margaret on the Guillotine" in 1987, a Smiths song that never made it to Strangeways Here We Come and so appeared on Moz's Viva Hate solo debut: a quiet melody that paints a shocking attack on Thatcher, which provoked a police raid of Morrissey's flat. Talk about art causing some serious problems and rattling the public/authorities.)

These are just some interesting examples, though sorry for the non sequitur--not exactly the topic of the thread. But Mattsmith's and CavGator's exchange on this particular issue was interesting.

Poor ol' Rush: never getting full respect. An old friend of mine used to be a roadie for Rush (in the mid-to-late 1970s) and knew the band very well. I remember him telling me stories about Neil Peart being a major bookworm, always off reading, and Peart and Alex also jamming on Zeppelin tunes for fun during rehearsals until Geddy would scold them. According to my friend, Geddy was a bit of an egomaniac--bit controlling, full of himself. Neil and Alex were the "nice ones."
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  #759  
Old 04-05-2009, 09:41 AM
KlarkKent KlarkKent is offline
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Default Re: Neil Peart

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It's a rock and roll hall of fame. Kind of Blue and Milestones doesn't make that happen.
I don't know--have you heard Miles's quintet perform "So What" in Berlin in September 1964?? Tony Williams on drums at age 17, and this version of "So What" sounds like speed metal compared to the original release on Kind of Blue. Ha!
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Old 04-05-2009, 09:56 AM
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Default Re: Neil Peart

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If anything has been proven by this dialouge it is to prove that no one truly understands what those people are thinking. And yes, that works towards the detriment of Peart and company.
I'm not going to pretend I totally know what they're thinking, but my guess is that the committee that dictates what the RRHoF does is purely motivated by doing what they think will bring money and attention to the hall, not by serving some higher purpose to honor the legacy of rock.

By staying within the commonly accepted boundaries defined by the genre of Rock & Roll they limit themselves to one segment of the buying public. But by branching out and including acts from Dance, Rap, Hip Hop, Jazz and Blues genres they will be able to suck more $$$$ from different portions of the general public that might otherwise not be interested in trekking to Cleveland to see the museum.

Of course this is now getting off topic and becoming a thread about why the R&RHoF sucks. I've been there and I found it only mildly interesting. I think pretty much everyone can agree Rush should be in their by this point in time.

Mojo Nixon's song "Rock & Roll Hall of Lame" nailed what they're all about pretty well, imo.
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