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  #41  
Old 01-19-2009, 06:11 AM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default Re: Tony Williams

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Originally Posted by Steamer View Post
I can play it and I also have it written out Abe. It's a mix of a double time feel on the ride being a combined1/8th note on 1 and the + and ah each beat on the ride played even per beat {think up tempo swing ride pattern} with the high hat on the + of each beat with back and forth patterns between the open snare {snares off} and the bass drum. Last 1/16th note of beat 1 followed by beat 2, last 1/16th note of beat 3 followed by beat 4 for the snare pattern. 1 and the + of 2, 3 and the + of 4 on the bass drum.

Put it all together and you have something Tony himself came up with it as far as I can can tell that's a cool quasi latin/swing hybrid feel thing.
Thanks Stan, I got the ride, snare and the hat on the 'and'. The bass drum work is whats different & interesting.. I think he's moving the accents around in the tune. Yes?
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  #42  
Old 01-19-2009, 06:15 AM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

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He did shove Wynton M off stage at Avery Fischer Hall, once....... : - I
And whispered a few choice words to him and shut down the band during his concert when he walked unannounced on stage here in Vancouver during Expo 86 :}
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  #43  
Old 01-19-2009, 06:22 AM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

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Originally Posted by aydee View Post
Thanks Stan, I got the ride, snare and the hat on the 'and'. The bass drum work is whats different & interesting.. I think he's moving the accents around in the tune. Yes?
Yes but the "essence" of the original feel/pattern stays intact when he breaks it up as seen and heard in the clip.

Think of the BD pattern as a half time Samba feel under what's on top of it.
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  #44  
Old 01-19-2009, 06:34 AM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

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Originally Posted by aydee View Post
Thanks Stan, I got the ride, snare and the hat on the 'and'. The bass drum work is whats different & interesting.. I think he's moving the accents around in the tune. Yes?
The way I hear it as a samba where the samba idea is kept betwen the HH, and the Ride. the surdo is on the Snare drum with the odd side of the beat as a ghost note, as a ghost note and the even side, 2 and 4 of the beat is accented. The bass drum is doing the 'and ' of three, which gives it a half time rock feel.
1..2.3..4.1..2.3..4
1.....2.....3....4
X XXX XXX XXX XX
s...sS...ss..sS..s
B.......B..B......B
...h.....h.... h....h

No? How's that for notation?

I just checked. It's in the mag.pp. 48, duh. Better to figure it out yourself though.
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Last edited by Deltadrummer; 01-19-2009 at 06:45 AM.
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  #45  
Old 01-19-2009, 06:40 AM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

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He did shove Wynton M off stage at Avery Fischer Hall, once....... : - I
Just being a visionary, There's no accounting for good taste. I am sure that had to do more with his mouth than his playing. I mean he did manage to piss off 3/4 of the jazz loving world, and totally discredited Miles later work. The other 1/4 hadn't read him. A lot of what Wynton said about culture was true though, and I repsected him for that. He just did not really get it when it came to music.
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Last edited by Deltadrummer; 01-19-2009 at 06:54 AM.
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  #46  
Old 01-19-2009, 07:03 AM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

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No?

Could be but it's the way I descibed it Ken. Let's check:

1 .... 2 ....3 ....4 ....
X xx X xx X xx X xx
.....ss ..........ss
...h ... h ... h .... h
B ......B ..B ......B

That was tough but lines up right using dots to help.
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  #47  
Old 01-19-2009, 07:06 AM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

Well, a -hole. it's also the way I described it, if you look at what I said. :)
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  #48  
Old 01-19-2009, 07:10 AM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default Re: Tony Williams

You both sound about right.I love the fills Tony plays in this tune too.. they are just so sweetly sophisticated, the taste lingers on the tongue well into the following bars...I love the one where he plays the cymbals like he hitting the drums
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  #49  
Old 01-19-2009, 07:12 AM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

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You both sound about right.I love the fills Tony plays in this tune too.. they are just so sweetly sophisticated, the taste lingers on the tongue well into the following bars...
That's the thing, ain't it? I mean you can try to imitate the groove, but the tasty fills is what really makes it happen. That's what separates the boys from the men, or the genius from guys looking at what the genius does. :)
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  #50  
Old 01-19-2009, 07:14 AM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

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Originally Posted by Deltadrummer View Post
Well, a -hole. it's also the way I described it, if you look at what I said. :)

You have some extra SD strokes in the beats of 1+3 that aren't in the pattern other than that it lines up.
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  #51  
Old 01-19-2009, 07:19 AM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

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Originally Posted by Steamer View Post
You have some extra SD strokes in the beats of 1+3 that aren't in the pattern other than that it lines up.

they're in the video. :)

The basic idea is a samba, with a jazz feel and a rock back beat. It is interesting to know that he just didn't pull the groove out of left field. It has it's roots a a varity of styles. This, after all was Tony's legacy. And even if he didn't invent fusion, he sure was better at it than most anyone else. :)
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  #52  
Old 01-19-2009, 07:23 AM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

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Originally Posted by Deltadrummer View Post
they're in the video. :)

The basic idea is a samba, with a jazz feel and a rock back beat. It is interesting to know that he just didn't pull the groove out of left field. It has it's roots a a varity of styles. This, after all was Tony's legacy. And even if he didn't invent fusion, he sure was better at it than most anyone else. :)
Nope. The main snares land on 2+4 in the feel with last 1/16th of beats 1+3 with the left hand setting them up as I notated. Know this one very well from heart.

Combining elements of regular and double time ideas in one feel makes it all "Tony".

P.S I watched the clip carefully Ken and yes he's gently ghosting more SD beats in this particular clip combined with the accented SD beats where I indicated so you are correct in this case :}
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Last edited by Steamer; 01-19-2009 at 07:44 AM. Reason: Correction for Ken
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  #53  
Old 01-19-2009, 07:35 AM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default Re: Tony Williams

Silly me. I have yet to open my a Christmas present ( Steve Smith DVD -standing on the shoulders of giants) which has a transcription of the tune, which is also performend by his band Jazz Legacy.

I'll try and put it up here, see what you two docs think....
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  #54  
Old 01-19-2009, 07:42 AM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

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Originally Posted by aydee View Post
Silly me. I have yet to open my a Christmas present ( Steve Smith DVD -standing on the shoulders of giants) which has a transcription of the tune, which is also performend by his band Jazz Legacy.

I'll try and put it up here, see what you two docs think....
It's in theTraps issue, too. But the whole idea, again is that it is not just coming up with the groove, but the myriad of ways he inflects it. It sounds to be like he is doing an Elvin here, accenting the 'a' of the ride, and changing up the bass drum accents like you mentioned, really cool stuff. and anayway, what are you going to do to it? That's really the most important part.:)
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Last edited by Deltadrummer; 01-19-2009 at 07:59 AM.
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  #55  
Old 01-19-2009, 11:52 AM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default Re: Tony Williams

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Originally Posted by Deltadrummer View Post
what are you going to do to it? That's really the most important part.:)
Well,Well,Well..............for starters, I'm messing with Dennis Chamber's Fatback groove ( not Stubblefield's ). I'm mixing in some Bhangra to it, and it sounds really interesting..I might post it up if it comes out half way decent.

Will cross the Tony bridge when I get to it.. ( got to get my singles chops up to play the opening ). Tis a long way to that river.
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  #56  
Old 01-19-2009, 06:28 PM
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Default Re: Tony Williams

I am sure you will do fine with it Abe. The question was rhetorical to some extent because that is what Tony would ask. You could come up with some skeletal conception of the groove; but that is not what he is doing. He is continually manipulating the groove and thus the time and feel. I think that is just such a great idea and for Tony this is drumming. Beats are Timekeeping, keeping time. But drumming is rhythms and in Sister Cheryl you can hear how he totally waeves and shapes the time. This is what the article was about, and I just wanted to share that because people ask the question "why is jazz so special?" Stan was saying, "these artist relating to the greater musical world around them and the tradition, of jazz and of jazz drumming." Here is an example of an artist doing just that; and we have only touched the surface of this piece I am sure.
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