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Old 11-20-2008, 08:10 AM
stabmasterarson stabmasterarson is offline
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Default How important is the right pedal?

I was wondering what you guys' opinion is on pedals. I am a beginnerish drummer who has only had one set of pedals, iron cobras. I don't know if I like them or not, I've had them for a couple of years, but only really started playing them regularly in the last 6 months in a band.

I don't want to buy new pedals if I don't have to but I also am having problems going fast for any period of time especially with my left foot... I have played with all the settings, etc, but it just feels heavy to me, too much effort to get it moving fast;.

I guess my question is, how long do you tough it out with a pedal until you pick up another one? Do you usually just play them until they feel good, or what?

I'm using 2 iron cobra rolling glide singles right now, and I'm thinking about pearl eliminators but I can't afford them right now..
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Old 11-20-2008, 08:26 PM
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Default Re: How important is the right pedal?

It's tough to say. Pedals are hard to figure out unless you have a LOT of time to sit in a drum store or a lot of money to spend trying out different models.

I started out with a TERRIBLE kick pedal- no name, no brand, no quality. The spring was so old that it barely had any tension, and at rest, the beat-up-beater was only about an inch away from the head. But hey, as a middle school/high school kid, I had no idea.

After high school, when I got back into drumming, I picked up a strap driven Yamaha pedal. Not the best looking thing, but boy, was it comfortable. I used that until just recently, when I fell into a Pearl Eliminator, which works ok... I tried going back to the Yamaha, and couldn't do it. A few months' worth of playing on the Pearl, and I had already adjusted to it.

My eventual plan is to pick up a DW 5000 series single pedal- I played on one the other night, and it was the most comfortable pedal I'd ever played. I've tried out many 5000 series pedals, but this one was just smooth as silk. It was as if all other bass drumming I'd ever done was hard work and this... this was just TOO easy...

Of course, I can't get that PARTICULAR pedal for my own, but I can at least go out and get one that's comfortable.

I guess if you don't have a lot of money, you have a couple of options- go get some drummer buddies and try out THEIR gear, or spend some quality time in a drum store trying their pedals. Luckily, your IC pedals will fetch pretty decent value in trade or sale.

OR... you can just keep working with THIS pedal and adjust your playing to it. Believe it or not, I got pretty fast with my first pedal, but I developed a nasty "stomping" technique to get volume out of it. In the end, I think you might be happier with a different pedal.
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Old 11-20-2008, 09:49 PM
stabmasterarson stabmasterarson is offline
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Default Re: How important is the right pedal?

thanks for the reply. I'm gonna try loosening off the springs a lot and tightening the batter to get that rebound, I read that's a good trick..
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Old 11-20-2008, 11:16 PM
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Default Re: How important is the right pedal?

The right pedal is very important, the left pedal is not so important unless you want to play double bass.
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Old 11-20-2008, 11:26 PM
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Default Re: How important is the right pedal?

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Originally Posted by Guz2 View Post
The right pedal is very important, the left pedal is not so important unless you want to play double bass.
Why would you HAVE a left pedal if you don't want to play double bass?

Edit: Oh. I get it. Durr.
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Old 11-20-2008, 11:29 PM
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Default Re: How important is the right pedal?

A good drummer should be able to play on any pedal really. You never know when you're going to have to play someone else's set, and who knows? Maybe they will have some crappy $50 single-chain pedal. The point being, you shouldn't rely on equipment to play well.
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Old 11-21-2008, 02:07 PM
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Default Re: How important is the right pedal?

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Originally Posted by Joe P View Post
A good drummer should be able to play on any pedal really. You never know when you're going to have to play someone else's set, and who knows? Maybe they will have some crappy $50 single-chain pedal. The point being, you shouldn't rely on equipment to play well.

While that is always a possibility, all be it not a very typical thing to happen. Having to use someone's pedals for a brief time is allot different than having one you use everyday. Having a pedal that feels comfortable to play on all the time is extremely important. If it doesn't feel comfortable or feels like it's holding you back it's going to prevent you from wanting to play and practice. It's one of the most important pieces of your kit that is used ALL the time.
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Old 11-21-2008, 10:28 PM
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Default Re: How important is the right pedal?

Iron Cobras are darn good pedals, and I would think most any drummer could play well with them once they were used to them. Unless something is broken, badly adjusted, or needs lubrication, I would say it's a matter of practice. But if you really just need something with lighter action, I've noticed that DW9000 pedals are really easy to drive. They're almost effortless. But they are pricey. Before you buy, you also might try getting Bass Drum Control by Colin Bailey and working on the exercises. Only costs 16 bucks and will improve your playing no matter what pedal you are using.

Last edited by Disco Stu; 11-21-2008 at 10:39 PM.
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Old 11-21-2008, 11:04 PM
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Default Re: How important is the right pedal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disco Stu View Post
Iron Cobras are darn good pedals, and I would think most any drummer could play well with them once they were used to them. Unless something is broken, badly adjusted, or needs lubrication, I would say it's a matter of practice. But if you really just need something with lighter action, I've noticed that DW9000 pedals are really easy to drive. They're almost effortless. But they are pricey. Before you buy, you also might try getting Bass Drum Control by Colin Bailey and working on the exercises. Only costs 16 bucks and will improve your playing no matter what pedal you are using.
While they are good pedals, quality is not the issue he's dealing with. It's a matter of feel and not every pedal works for every one. There's a ton of different models out there for that reason, just the same with sticks. Sometimes it's a matter of getting adjusted to the pedal, other times it's just not the right pedal for you. I tried IC's and didn't like the feel of them, tried the Elims, Axis and a few other and all are great pedals they just didn't work for me. I would have loved to had the opportunity to try the Flying Dragon Direct drive but no one around me carries them and I didn't want to pay shipping and possibly return shipping in the event I didn't care for it. I went with the DW9000 and have been very happy with it.

Try adjusting head tension, spring tension and footboard angle/height to see if that helps you at all.
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Old 11-21-2008, 11:35 PM
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Default Re: How important is the right pedal?

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Originally Posted by konaboy View Post
While they are good pedals, quality is not the issue he's dealing with. It's a matter of feel and not every pedal works for every one. There's a ton of different models out there for that reason, just the same with sticks. Sometimes it's a matter of getting adjusted to the pedal, other times it's just not the right pedal for you. I tried IC's and didn't like the feel of them, tried the Elims, Axis and a few other and all are great pedals they just didn't work for me. I would have loved to had the opportunity to try the Flying Dragon Direct drive but no one around me carries them and I didn't want to pay shipping and possibly return shipping in the event I didn't care for it. I went with the DW9000 and have been very happy with it.
Well, there was a time when none of those pedals existed, and great drummers managed to do very well with the old Speed King. Those drummers could probably also play really well with an IC, a 5000, an Eliminator, an Axis, etc. My point is it's the drummer first, equipment second. (Unless it's a crappy, cheapo pedal, then it's really a hindrance.) I have my preferences too, but I'm sure I could ultimately play just as well with a 5000 pedal as with my IC. At the same time, a guy like Jojo Mayer could totally school me with any pedal, even if I was using the pedal that was "right for me."

I just think it's a common thing for people to blame equipment for problems. I see it all the time with bicycles. People decide their bike doesn't work well anymore, and buy a new one. But if they had just put some air in the tires and cleaned an lubed the chain, their old bike would ride good as new. Meanwhile, Lance Armstrong could blow them away on an old Schwinn Varsity. I see it with cameras too. People get bad results in their photos like out of focus shots or bad exposures, and they think they need a new camera. But in the hands of an experienced photographer, the camera is capable of taking great photos.

So, I'm a little suspicious when a "beginnerish" drummer is not satisfied with his bass drum performance and decides the problem is with the pedal, especially a quality pedal like an Iron Cobra. So, I think it's worth exploring other options like lubing and adjusting the pedal and working on bass drum technique before buying new pedals. But if he just wants different pedals and he has the money, then that's fine too.

Last edited by Disco Stu; 11-22-2008 at 12:25 AM.
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  #11  
Old 11-22-2008, 12:17 AM
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Default Re: How important is the right pedal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe P View Post
A good drummer should be able to play on any pedal really. You never know when you're going to have to play someone else's set, and who knows? Maybe they will have some crappy $50 single-chain pedal. The point being, you shouldn't rely on equipment to play well.
I agree.
But the right pedal is important if you play it fast and often.
If you only need it for simple beats, its not as important.
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Old 11-22-2008, 09:00 PM
stabmasterarson stabmasterarson is offline
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Default Re: How important is the right pedal?

some great replies here. I've loosened off the spring tension on the pedals so they aren't so much work to push down fast and tightened up the batter to get more rebound and it seems easier to play now. I think I just have to practice a lot. I've spent close to 3k on my kit this year and don't look forward to spending another 300 for eliminators, even though they sound cool with the interchangeable cams. I'm not getting paid to play drums so I can't see myself going for trick or axis pedals.

How much are the yamaha flying dragon direct drives going for out of curiousity?
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Old 11-22-2008, 09:10 PM
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Default Re: How important is the right pedal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stabmasterarson View Post
some great replies here. I've loosened off the spring tension on the pedals so they aren't so much work to push down fast and tightened up the batter to get more rebound and it seems easier to play now. I think I just have to practice a lot. I've spent close to 3k on my kit this year and don't look forward to spending another 300 for eliminators, even though they sound cool with the interchangeable cams. I'm not getting paid to play drums so I can't see myself going for trick or axis pedals.

How much are the yamaha flying dragon direct drives going for out of curiousity?
http://www.massmusic.net/shop/?cat=1613 $144.50 at Mass Music. Was $149 at musicians friend last I checked. Due to finances I passed up a killer deal on a used one on e-bay for $70
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Old 11-27-2008, 12:23 AM
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Default Re: How important is the right pedal?

I think that having at least a decent quality pedal is very important to learning....

If you think about it, the pedal is the one part of the kit that will actually determine how good you are going to play. Playing with the hands is just direct contact between the stick and drum or cymbal. With the feet, you are relying on a piece of machinery to make that connection for you. Moral of the story is, a crappy drum kit will always sound bad but, nevertheless, you can still play well on it...

I understand that a good drummer should be able to play well on any quality of pedal, but it is going to hinder your playing if you have extra resistance there because the pedal isn't smooth for whatever reason.

With that said, I think people get a little overly concerned with how smooth a pedal needs to be. For example, I cannot get used to the extreme sensitivity of Axis longboard pedals. I am used to the lag and I rely on the extra momentum from the catapulting motion. I personally believe you can play just as fast on a Pearl Eliminator (what I play now) or a Tama Iron Cobra as an Axis. Some may disagree, but in my experience, this is the case.
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Old 11-29-2008, 09:35 AM
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Default Re: How important is the right pedal?

i dont know if this has been said already or not, because i'm too lazy to read the entire forum coz not enought time. umm but these good double pedals cost like $300-$700 right?

Why not just try and get another bass drum cheap and buy 2 gud single pedals.
I did that and i went ALOT faster and could hold the beat at a constant bpm for longer times. when you have 2 single pedals there isnt the lag of the bar the joins double pedals, hence u will go faster and be more accurate timing/beat wise.

Just my 2 cents :).
hope it helped
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Old 11-29-2008, 08:23 PM
stabmasterarson stabmasterarson is offline
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Default Re: How important is the right pedal?

I have a tama rockstar 8 piece with 2 bass drums and chain iron cobra rolling glides. I'm looking into getting power glide cams, it seems those are the most popular iron cobra pedal style
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Old 11-30-2008, 08:42 AM
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Default Re: How important is the right pedal?

Your pedals are fine. Quit fooling around with gear and settings and just practice.
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Old 11-30-2008, 10:19 AM
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Default Re: How important is the right pedal?

Or better yet spend 5mins, get everything to ur liking then practice, and then adjust again if you have to and practice some more :)
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Old 11-30-2008, 10:02 PM
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Default Re: How important is the right pedal?

dkerwood

i wouldnt recommend the 5000s my m8 and i are continually plkayign each others kits his 5000 is sluggish squeaks alot and over all is not a comfortable pedal could be bad settings but i dont think it is. i have a bigdog pro double a very good pedal smooth and is basically an ic with different footplates.

just a heads up to take into account if you decide there the ones for you
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Old 11-30-2008, 10:39 PM
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Default Re: How important is the right pedal?

sorry about that i just realised hes got a 4000 just dont get that 5000 probably a good buy
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Old 12-01-2008, 04:47 AM
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Default Re: How important is the right pedal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe P View Post
A good drummer should be able to play on any pedal really.... The point being, you shouldn't rely on equipment to play well.
I don't agree. To a certain point, yes...one should be able to "play well" to the physical dynamics of the gear. If the pedal I normally play has a tight rebound and spring tension but the kit I'm about to play has a pedal that is extremely loose, there shouldn't even be an expectation to being able to play to the same degree. I believe person that "plays well" could be and should be adaptive enough to compensate for the changes and at least make a fighting attempt keep it tasteful.

But to say that the "good" isn't dependent on the gear is silly.
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Old 12-02-2008, 05:10 AM
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Default Re: How important is the right pedal?

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Originally Posted by grooveweapon View Post
I think that having at least a decent quality pedal is very important to learning....

If you think about it, the pedal is the one part of the kit that will actually determine how good you are going to play. Playing with the hands is just direct contact between the stick and drum or cymbal. With the feet, you are relying on a piece of machinery to make that connection for you. Moral of the story is, a crappy drum kit will always sound bad but, nevertheless, you can still play well on it...

I understand that a good drummer should be able to play well on any quality of pedal, but it is going to hinder your playing if you have extra resistance there because the pedal isn't smooth for whatever reason.

With that said, I think people get a little overly concerned with how smooth a pedal needs to be. For example, I cannot get used to the extreme sensitivity of Axis longboard pedals. I am used to the lag and I rely on the extra momentum from the catapulting motion. I personally believe you can play just as fast on a Pearl Eliminator (what I play now) or a Tama Iron Cobra as an Axis. Some may disagree, but in my experience, this is the case.
Good points here, I use eliminators as well and have tried axis, tama, and DW (the 9000's) and overall the eliminators are what worked for me for the price, quality, and adjustability. I too found Cobras to be a little heavy, and I also found axis and DW (the 9000) to be way to smooth, yet still able to play decently like everyone has stated, it made things uncomfortable to me keep in mind I only tried them so I didn't get time to adjust to them. I'm not downing any other brand and I think the cobras you have now will be fine, but when the time comes and your looking for a new pedal, get to a gear store (i.e. Guitar Center) and try a few pedals out for yourself before you buy, and take into consideration all of the factors like, "is this pedal adjustable", "is it easy to replace", "can I trust it for the money", "am I paying for name or quality", "will it last for as long as I need it to", so on and so forth, but most pedals in the higher end range are usually adjustable enough to get the feel your looking for, hope this helped and good luck with your pedal man.
P.S. People mainly use the tight batter head and loose spring tension trick for hella fast double bassing or aka death metal, so if thats your thing your on the right path, but dont rely on the gear alone to make you play well, practice slow double bass and speed it up until you can play it clean so if something malfunctions within your gear it doesn't screw up your whole performance because you will still have your technique in tact. In other words don't rely on machines to master the technique, master it yourself and you will benefit from it more than just having nice gear. Good luck and sorry for the long post.
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Old 12-02-2008, 06:59 PM
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Default Re: How important is the right pedal?

Good points by all, but no one really hit on what i'm thinking. If it's speed you're after in a double bass environment, no pedal, no matter how comfortable is going to make YOU faster. YOU have to make yourself faster. Practice long and hard and practice until it HURTS (i know, that doesn't make sense to a lot of old school guys who are going to quote Chapin or Lawrence Stone or Dom Famularo or whoever who says if it hurts, stop doing it). Here's the deal: your legs are full of fast twitch muscle fibers that are not developed at all if you're a beginner or novice. The only way they will be built up is by working out until your legs are literally burning with pain. Then you go further. I'm not advocating tearing connective tissue, but you need to build up muscle and muscle memory. Cardinal rule when trying to build any speed technique: PRACTICE WITH A METRONOME. Again, practice long and hard and go beyond the burn, i'm talking at least an hour a day. When i forced myself to become a double bass drummer, i played 2-3 hours a day for 6 months to build up to Scott Travis and Vinnie Paul speed and accuracy. Start with 16th note singles at a comfortable tempo (try like an 8 bar phrase at a time, if it doesn't burn go longer) maybe about 120 bpm and then ramp up every week, soon you'll be ripping out 16th's at 200 bpm. remember, the burn is your friend. Also those iron cobras are pro level pedals, there's not much more you can do to improve on them until you're ready to step up to an axis or a Trick. For the level you're at, they're a perfect fit.
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