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  #1  
Old 08-08-2008, 07:07 AM
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crdirtRider856 crdirtRider856 is offline
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Default Help with speakers?

When I play along to music, I use a mix of headphones and speakers. But I like the speakers to be clearly audible over the natural volume of the drums. I have a 200 watt receiver which is supplied by my computer.

As of today, I have pretty much blown every set of speakers I have ran through this system. 200 watts is really not that powerful, but I guess after being played for 2-4 hours at a time, at full volume, has shown to be too much for what I have used. I have tried high-end Bose, low end MTX and too many others to recall. I always make sure that what I run can handle my receiver's output, and have asked the guys from Best Buy for help, to no luck.

So I need some help here. I always buy speakers with a return- warrantee, as I have come to expect them to blow out and be returned eventually. Should I stick with normal non-powered speakers, or should I look into some lower end, "powered" moniter or P.A. type deal?

I m not looking for crystal clear, top of the line clarity. I just want a set that will be able to handle a few hours of loud music without shutting off to "cool down" or blowing out after 2-3 months of heavy use.
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  #2  
Old 08-08-2008, 09:02 AM
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Default Re: Help with speakers?

Hmm...if you crank a home entertainment system for hours, then you probably will do some damage no matter what. Stuff breaks down eventually, and it will break down faster if used at or near its maximum potential.

You need to make sure that your watts and ohms are correctly matching up, or else you will constantly blow speakers or amplifiers. I haven't looked into receivers/speakers for a while, but I am putting together a PA right now and know about PA specs and what to do and not do.

The statement, "I always make sure that what I run can handle my receiver's output" concerns me. Are your speakers' watt ratings above the amp's output watt rating? That could very well be your problem. The amp has to drive the signal against the right amount of impedance, so as to not push too hard to get too much or not enough signal through. The speaker needs to have enough signal to not cause it to clip (from lack of signal strength), but also to not have too much to overpower it. If you have questions about impedance/ohms/watts, feel free to PM me (or post it here if you want everyone to see).

My advice would be to get a powered main speaker...with a horn and a 15" speaker. At least 250 watts, I would imagine. When you take your signal out of your computer or receiver for a powered speaker, though, make sure to take it out of the "line out" jack rather than an amplified jack.

Also, I would strongly suggest wearing hearing protection if you're not already. Sounds like your practicing could do some damage to your hearing as well...
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Old 08-08-2008, 10:47 AM
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Default Re: Help with speakers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by caddywumpus View Post
Also, I would strongly suggest wearing hearing protection if you're not already. Sounds like your practicing could do some damage to your hearing as well...
Key point. Please don't underestimate it. Ear damage will catch up to you sooner or later, if you're not careful. Ideal scenario is to mike & mix the kit into the track and run it through headphone. Investment, but worth it if you drum almost everyday.
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  #4  
Old 08-08-2008, 11:18 AM
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Default Re: Help with speakers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by crdirtRider856 View Post
When I play along to music, I use a mix of headphones and speakers. But I like the speakers to be clearly audible over the natural volume of the drums. I have a 200 watt receiver which is supplied by my computer.

As of today, I have pretty much blown every set of speakers I have ran through this system. 200 watts is really not that powerful, but I guess after being played for 2-4 hours at a time, at full volume, has shown to be too much for what I have used. I have tried high-end Bose, low end MTX and too many others to recall. I always make sure that what I run can handle my receiver's output, and have asked the guys from Best Buy for help, to no luck.

So I need some help here. I always buy speakers with a return- warrantee, as I have come to expect them to blow out and be returned eventually. Should I stick with normal non-powered speakers, or should I look into some lower end, "powered" moniter or P.A. type deal?

I m not looking for crystal clear, top of the line clarity. I just want a set that will be able to handle a few hours of loud music without shutting off to "cool down" or blowing out after 2-3 months of heavy use.
This doesn't answer your question exactly but it may help. If your kit is mic'd up you can use in ear 'earbud' type headphones and then wear workman style ear defenders over the top. You can then mix the mic'd drums and music you're jamming to in the headphones.

I've used this method for recording and it means you have much more control over the volume you are subjecting your ears to.
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  #5  
Old 08-08-2008, 04:09 PM
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Default Re: Help with speakers?

if you are playing with headphones, why do you need loud speakers? I play with headphones and mute my speakers. My neighbors don't hear anythng but my drums and I don't blow speakers. I don't understand using both.
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  #6  
Old 08-08-2008, 04:32 PM
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crdirtRider856 crdirtRider856 is offline
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Default Re: Help with speakers?

Thanks, I would love to mic my set, but right now thats not really an option. I sould my mics a few years ago and I dont have any type of board to mix them thruogh.

Caddy and Aydee- the headphones i use work great as protection, I keep the volume pretty low, and they are the big soft, over your ear type. They work like earplugs that play
music.

So I d love to hear more about this impedence, ohms, watts Caddy. I m far from a stereo geek, but I do know a little bit, and your statement surprised me. Speakers can be too powerful for a receiver?
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Old 08-08-2008, 07:00 PM
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DestinationDrumming DestinationDrumming is offline
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Default Re: Help with speakers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by crdirtRider856 View Post
As of today, I have pretty much blown every set of speakers I have ran through this system. 200 watts is really not that powerful, but I guess after being played for 2-4 hours at a time, at full volume, has shown to be too much for what I have used. I have tried high-end Bose, low end MTX and too many others to recall. I always make sure that what I run can handle my receiver's output, and have asked the guys from Best Buy for help, to no luck.

So I need some help here. I always buy speakers with a return- warrantee, as I have come to expect them to blow out and be returned eventually. Should I stick with normal non-powered speakers, or should I look into some lower end, "powered" moniter or P.A. type deal?

I m not looking for crystal clear, top of the line clarity. I just want a set that will be able to handle a few hours of loud music without shutting off to "cool down" or blowing out after 2-3 months of heavy use.
Check your wiring. High end Bose speakers have an overload protection circuit built into them. Therefore it is impossible for you to blow them. The protection circuit should also protect against wiring faults as it has a short protection built in.

What is the make and model of your amp? Post this and we can see what the output actually is and perhaps recommend some speakers.

Most speakers will cope with high power input for a few hours of loud music (assuming the rating is right) so your problem may lie somewhere else.

cheers
Kevin
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  #8  
Old 08-08-2008, 09:13 PM
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Default Re: Help with speakers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by crdirtRider856 View Post
Speakers can be too powerful for a receiver?
They can be "rated" too high for a receiver/amp. If you have a receiver pushing 200 watts (let's assume 8 ohms), and a speaker rated at 400 watts (8 ohms...the same impedance), then you will probably blow your speaker. What the speaker rating tells you is the amount of watts you should be sending to the speaker, so as to not cause clipping in the speaker (from a signal not strong enough...it therefore becomes an intermittent signal), or to overwork your amp, which can cause the signal to start distorting, or your amp to overwork itself to a nice, smokey demise. It would be like trying to power a turbine with a trickling creek.

If you're running music from your computer (or cd player or whatever...line level output to your receiver), then your speakers should be rated the same watts for ohms as your receiver's output. If you're running a PA system, then you'll need more juice from the amp than the speakers run at to guarantee you won't fall under the "clipping" level. Just don't exceed the max wattage.

Hope this helps!
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  #9  
Old 08-08-2008, 09:44 PM
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Default Re: Help with speakers?

Just got hold of a nice 2x60 Watt amp for my speakers (maximum output 30, recommended 20 at 4 Ohm). A good amp can make all the difference.
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  #10  
Old 08-10-2008, 06:53 AM
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crdirtRider856 crdirtRider856 is offline
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Default Re: Help with speakers?

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Originally Posted by Mediocrefunkybeat View Post
Just got hold of a nice 2x60 Watt amp for my speakers (maximum output 30, recommended 20 at 4 Ohm). A good amp can make all the difference.
Soooo......can I have it? I ll pay shipping. : P

Anyway...Its a Sony (following from manual)"With 8 ohm loads, both channels driven, from 20- 20,000Hz; rated 100 watts per channel minimum RMS power, with no more than 0.09% total harmonic distortion from 250 milliwatts to rated output".....???? This is a foreign language to me...

Power output=8 ohms, 1 kHz, THD-0.7% 100w+100w*1*

120v ac, 60 Hz

Frequency response=20Hz- 50kHz

MD/Tape(line out)=500mV

I feel like I m in math class. Does this help?
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Last edited by crdirtRider856; 08-10-2008 at 07:37 AM.
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Old 08-10-2008, 08:08 AM
Mediocrefunkybeat
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Default Re: Help with speakers?

100 Watts a channel is pretty damn powerful for a home Stereo amp. That's probably your problem with blowing speakers right there. Don't run it flat out on your system - check the lower load limit on your speakers (no idea) and rate your output to that. You also need to check the Impedence - if your speakers are rated to 16 Ohms, then driving them hard with that 100 Watt amp will do a lot of damage if you're not very careful.

20Hz-50K? Pretty tidy. That's what's required to run CD's (44.1 KhZ) and the distortion level is quite low. Sounds like a decent amp actually. The lineout is just a standard level output to put into another ancillary device - so if you wanted to use a submixer, that's what I'd recommend you use.

EDIT: I just want to qualify my 100 Watt = powerful message. Most home systems do not have this kind of output on their amps. Home Theatre systems I've seen up to 500 Watt, but they're integrated units with specific speakers and they also need large bass drivers (higher output required) for the subwoofers in these systems. However, the record for a home system I've come across is an old Music Teacher of mine from my old school, who had a pair of speakers (and the specific amp) that were rated at 2,000 Watts. Yeah. That was impressive when they unleashed 'Handel's Messiah' on an impressionable 15 year-old.

Last edited by Mediocrefunkybeat; 08-10-2008 at 08:19 AM.
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  #12  
Old 08-10-2008, 09:07 AM
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Default Re: Help with speakers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by crdirtRider856 View Post
...rated 100 watts per channel minimum RMS power...
Okay, here's where I get confused with all of this rating stuff. I've seen the following words used, interchanged with one another on different speakers to mean totally different things, or sometimes the same (yes, I've compiled a list);

minimum
minimum continuous
continuous
continuous pink noise
minimum continuous pink noise
minimum RMS
RMS
maximum RMS
program
maximum program
maximum
maximum continuous
maximum load

I understand that there are different ratings for different impedance levels (ohms), and there should be 3 ratings on each speaker for watts (minimum, program, maximum), but all of the different terminology that could potentially mean either the same thing or something completely different is baffling to me.

From what I can gather, it sounds as if you need 2 (home theatre) speakers that run at 100 watts each. For a home stereo system, or a PA system running recorded music (like a DJ would do), I've heard that since you're using a constant signal, you want your speakers to have a rating that is similar to your amp. If you're doing live music, the rules are different, but that doesn't pertain to this thread.

I would forego it all, though, and use a powered 2- or 3-way speaker with a 15" woofer and take the signal straight out of the computer's line out or headphone jack. That way, you know that the speaker can handle it. Also, it's been my experience that speakers used as mains for a PA system are much more durable than those used in a home theatre system.
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  #13  
Old 08-10-2008, 09:36 AM
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Default Re: Help with speakers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mediocrefunkybeat View Post
100 Watts a channel is pretty damn powerful for a home Stereo amp. That's probably your problem with blowing speakers right there. Don't run it flat out on your system - check the lower load limit on your speakers (no idea) and rate your output to that. You also need to check the Impedence - if your speakers are rated to 16 Ohms, then driving them hard with that 100 Watt amp will do a lot of damage if you're not very careful.
I fear I do not know what I have and this is why I m turning to YOU guys to help me with my "speaker-blowing" problem....(no puns needed)

So after blowing my last pair which was a set of "non-powered" 15" MTX horns,( I dont have the specific specs. I *think* they were 250w. This was about 8 months ago and I returned 'em, with no records to date.

My current speakers are a set of "old" Sanyo 12 inchers with 4 1/2" and 3 1/2"s each[non-metric{obviously})(mod.#.SS-685), with an imp of 8 ohms, They have a protecter which shuts them off after about 20 minutes of 75% full power.... Need more info? Just ask, please.: )

Gruntersdad, If I could give you a good answer,........well....uhhhhm.... then I wouldnt be asking for help with this.

Put it this way, I have learned to play with LOUD music as my background. Yes I have mild Tinnitus(SP?) And This is why I now play with the headphones, I typically record myself with some sort of camcorder, to gauge my judgement/progress and basically see/hear what I can improve upon. As loud as my system can be, is still not as loud as any "live" situation. I guess its just a bit of a "habitual" process... Not to mention, I want everyone within a square mile of my home to enjoy my "playing". Luckily, my neighbors enjoy and support it. Except for the cop who lives across the street from me, and he's still pretty cool about it. I guess it could be worse....LOL!

So as for the algabraic audiotistycal info, help?
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Old 08-11-2008, 02:24 AM
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Default Re: Help with speakers?

i would consider buying a 2 channel home theater receiver instead of running off the computer. You can buy a 3.5 mm to rca adapter and connect through the aux inut. Reason being the ohms thing. If you go to a standard HT receiver, most run at 8 ohm, just like most lower level to mid range HT speakers. Therefore, you could buy almost any pair of speakers that match the receivers RMX power handling (note, NOT the peak power handling) and not have to worry about the ohms ratings so much.

Hope this helps :-)
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Old 08-11-2008, 02:31 AM
Mediocrefunkybeat
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Default Re: Help with speakers?

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Originally Posted by matt986 View Post
i would consider buying a 2 channel home theater receiver instead of running off the computer. You can buy a 3.5 mm to rca adapter and connect through the aux inut. Reason being the ohms thing. If you go to a standard HT receiver, most run at 8 ohm, just like most lower level to mid range HT speakers. Therefore, you could buy almost any pair of speakers that match the receivers RMX power handling (note, NOT the peak power handling) and not have to worry about the ohms ratings so much.

Hope this helps :-)
Word. Plus the use of a decent Amp will do wonders for your quality of listening experience.
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