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  #1  
Old 12-19-2007, 05:38 PM
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Default New sticks, weights far from matched!

I just recieved a pair of Vater's Cyrus Bolooki Signature Sticks (about my fith pair of these i think.)

Whaen i started playing, one seemed noticably lighter than the other, and the wood had a courser grain.

I got out the scales and found that one stick weighed 63g and the other was 51g!

The difference is huge for a pair of sticks that are meant to be matched. Is this type of weight difference common, or is it a sign to change Vic Firth (my second choice in terms of durability.)

thanks for any comments.
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  #2  
Old 12-19-2007, 05:44 PM
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Default Re: New sticks, weights far from matched!

Go to Vater online and let them know. That seems extreme. May have been somone in the store had them out and put them back in the wrong sleeve.
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  #3  
Old 12-19-2007, 05:46 PM
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Default Re: New sticks, weights far from matched!

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Originally Posted by GRUNTERSDAD View Post
Go to Vater online and let them know. That seems extreme. May have been somone in the store had them out and put them back in the wrong sleeve.
Ok ill do that, but do you mean just the raw wood? or the stick? because there is nothing visibly different other than a slight difference in wood colour, which i have experienced before...
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Old 12-19-2007, 06:23 PM
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Default Re: New sticks, weights far from matched!

Also, what sort of stuff do i need to put in the email to Vater?

thanks
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  #5  
Old 12-19-2007, 06:45 PM
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Default Re: New sticks, weights far from matched!

This also happened to me recently. I bought a shrink-wrapped brick of Vater 5B's, four pairs, from Guitar Center. Two of the pairs had very noticeable weight differences, so I just paired the two lightest and two heaviest together. I think I'll send them an e-mail as well.
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  #6  
Old 12-19-2007, 07:13 PM
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Default Re: New sticks, weights far from matched!

This is one of the reasons why I use Aheads... It always seemed like a struggle to get a matched pair of wooden ones.
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  #7  
Old 12-21-2007, 02:37 AM
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Default Re: New sticks, weights far from matched!

This is why i don't use vater sticks Vic Firth 5B all the way
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  #8  
Old 12-21-2007, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: New sticks, weights far from matched!

I learned my lesson when companies started "packing their sticks in pairs, opposed to when they were just sent out loose and you chose your sticks. I use promark 5a's and I get 6 pair or so from the sales person and pull them out of the sleeves and match weight,wood grain, straightness (I roll them) and tone test (tapping on counter) to make sure they closely match in pitch to my liking. This whole line that they come matched from the factory I disagree with! Can't tell you the last time I pulled a pair of sticks out of a sleeve that matched and that's after watching the guy open a new brick. I won't mail order sticks for this exact reason!
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Old 12-21-2007, 04:27 PM
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Default Re: New sticks, weights far from matched!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Smith View Post
This is why i don't use vater sticks Vic Firth 5B all the way
Why are you shouting?
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  #10  
Old 12-21-2007, 04:39 PM
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Default Re: New sticks, weights far from matched!

Shouting or not, he's right. I struggled using Vater's for a long while. Finally said screw it and started using Vic's...been much happier. Not just with weight either...I notice a lot less tip-splitting with the vics.

BTW...If I'm buying a brick of sticks, say at a GC...and it's shrink-wrapped...I break it there and test the tonal match. If it doesn't jive, I say something about it right there. The GC guys are right there with me and replace as needed. They would rather me leave happy and know I'm coming back for more.
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  #11  
Old 12-21-2007, 04:57 PM
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Default Re: New sticks, weights far from matched!

Here is my take on this. I make my own sticks and I also do custom sticks.
I always make a pair of sticks out of a 36" dowel. So far the pairs were never off more than 2 grams due to that fact. Mostly sticks are made out of 18" dowels so they all drop into a box where they have to be taken out and have to be weighed.
If they would use a longer dowel and keep that pair that was made out of the longer dowel always together, there wouldn't be problem.
But I guess the mass producing keeps them away from doing that.
Like I said this is my personal experience, and I do this since 99' and with my method the sticks are always matched by weight.
Once I bought 18" dowels and I had the hardest time to match up them damn things.
Never again.
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Last edited by boomboomda; 12-21-2007 at 05:19 PM.
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  #12  
Old 12-21-2007, 05:34 PM
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Default Re: New sticks, weights far from matched!

I did watch the How They Make That about drumsticks, and the process was quite good. But again my point is that if someone goes into a store and takes two pair of sticks out of the sleeves, and buys the two out of the four sticks, and puts the unmatched or lesser matched pair back in the other sleeve, the next chap that comes along gets a pair that may be far from matched.
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  #13  
Old 12-21-2007, 05:41 PM
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Default Re: New sticks, weights far from matched!

I saw that episode too.

I agree. Got to be carefull about how you get sticks. Especially free-singles in the stick-cubby. Even still...there is no reason why anyone should have to pay for less. If you're buying it, they should be right. Thus, being able to hand pick em'.
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  #14  
Old 12-21-2007, 05:51 PM
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Default Re: New sticks, weights far from matched!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhydianjlewis View Post
I just recieved a pair of Vater's Cyrus Bolooki Signature Sticks (about my fith pair of these i think.)

Whaen i started playing, one seemed noticably lighter than the other, and the wood had a courser grain.

I got out the scales and found that one stick weighed 63g and the other was 51g!

The difference is huge for a pair of sticks that are meant to be matched. Is this type of weight difference common, or is it a sign to change Vic Firth (my second choice in terms of durability.)

thanks for any comments.
It happens...they're made of wood, by humans, so there will be the occasional imperfection.

Another common issue is getting a pair that weigh much more or less than the pair you bought previously. It happens maybe 1 out of 10 pair that I buy...I just return them and try to be careful when selecting sticks.
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  #15  
Old 12-23-2007, 12:06 AM
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rhydianjlewis rhydianjlewis is offline
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Default Re: New sticks, weights far from matched!

Yeah, these were mail-order, but only because there isnt a Vater dealer anywhere nearby.

Anyway, instead of emailing Vater, i sent the store a message, and i think they went to vater about it. The reply message was:


Hi,
thankyou for your email re the vater sticks...I can offer you no explaination for this, we do not check weights on individual sticks and never have.
We have since checked our stock and these are also out by 5 to 8 grams approx
As an experiment we have also checked other makes and the nearest matches are Vic Firth by a gram or two and Vater 5A we also checked and these were nearly all spot on.
I will pass your email on to Vater for their comments
keep you posted
Pete


So it seems the problem isn't with vater, but the entire batch of Cyrus Bolooki sticks. Still, i may consider moving to the closest Vic Firth equivalent.
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  #16  
Old 12-27-2007, 10:13 AM
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Default Re: New sticks, weights far from matched!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Smith View Post
This is why i don't use vater sticks Vic Firth 5B all the way
that was unnecessary. different hands = different sticks.
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  #17  
Old 01-01-2008, 01:14 AM
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Default Re: New sticks, weights far from matched!

Sticks are important. I would never order sticks, they are too important and cost too much. I try every pair I purchase, check it for weight and roll it on a flat surface to make sure they are straight. Although quality control should make every pair the best they could be...
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  #18  
Old 01-01-2008, 02:37 AM
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Default Re: New sticks, weights far from matched!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhydianjlewis View Post
Yeah, these were mail-order, but only because there isnt a Vater dealer anywhere nearby.

Anyway, instead of emailing Vater, i sent the store a message, and i think they went to vater about it. The reply message was:


Hi,
thankyou for your email re the vater sticks...I can offer you no explaination for this, we do not check weights on individual sticks and never have.
We have since checked our stock and these are also out by 5 to 8 grams approx
As an experiment we have also checked other makes and the nearest matches are Vic Firth by a gram or two and Vater 5A we also checked and these were nearly all spot on.
I will pass your email on to Vater for their comments
keep you posted
Pete


So it seems the problem isn't with vater, but the entire batch of Cyrus Bolooki sticks. Still, i may consider moving to the closest Vic Firth equivalent.
This quote is from Vaters website, under manufacturing #10.

Each stick is then put through Vater's computer pitch and weight matching system. The pitch and weight of each stick is recorded and the stick is placed into a designated bin. Each stick within a specific bin will have the same pitch and weight as the others in the same bin.

and this from step # 11;

Step #11
The sticks from each individual bin are then color matched in bar-coded sleeves, leaving a perfectly pitch and weight matched pair.

So who is saying they never weigh or match and never have?????
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