DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > Drum Gear > Other Gear

Other Gear Discuss Hardware and all other equipment not covered in the other topics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 09-22-2007, 02:24 PM
aydee aydee is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,293
Default My Rack that Rocks...

My friendly neighborhood drum store guy has kindly let me try this Italian- made Manfrotto rack. ( $200 ).

I'm free to return it, if I don't like it

Name:  with rack.jpg
Views: 1100
Size:  146.4 KB

Upside-
Its pretty light weight, and taking the toms off the bass drum mounts gives me better tom adjustments.

Maybe I'm imagining it, but the bass drum sounds a tad fuller too.


Downside
- somewhere between the yamaha tom holders and the rack-clamps, the toms slip a bit from their original settings after I've played on them for a while. Not a huge deal, but disconcerting.

Is that unusual?

Name:  w rack 3.jpg
Views: 792
Size:  123.6 KB

Also, if I'm crashing hard on the mounted cymbals simultaneously, the rack seems to rock a bit. Maybe its just fine tuning the assembly.

Are the square type racks ( Pearl ) better than the tube types ?

Please don't recommend Gibralter ,DW, etc. They 'aint available here and I don't want to spend too much money on a rack

Big Question- Should I keep it, or return it and buy something a little better?

Last edited by aydee; 09-22-2007 at 04:29 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-22-2007, 02:31 PM
dw D's Avatar
dw D dw D is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: the north atlantic
Posts: 171
Default Re: My Rack that Rolls

nice looking setup man!!


As for the rack, not bad for 200$. You said it rocks a little. Try and get a side extension, or something that increases the overall stability. The way it is congfigured now looks a little unsteady. Is there anything stopping the rack from falling foward?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-22-2007, 02:47 PM
aydee aydee is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,293
Default Re: My Rack that Rolls

Quote:
Originally Posted by dw D View Post
. Is there anything stopping the rack from falling foward?
not really, except the weight of the gear on the other side..
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-22-2007, 02:52 PM
SLEEPY BRiGHT EYEZ's Avatar
SLEEPY BRiGHT EYEZ SLEEPY BRiGHT EYEZ is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Louisiana Swamp
Posts: 1,739
Default Re: My Rack that Rolls

Do the wheels have locks on them to keep the rack from rolling away? Can you get memory locks for the clamps?
__________________
Listen to WWOZ
Tape Op
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-22-2007, 03:15 PM
punkdrummer1's Avatar
punkdrummer1 punkdrummer1 is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 659
Default Re: My Rack that Rolls

very cool man. Love the idea....
__________________




Endorsements are hard to come by. Anyone???? :p
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-22-2007, 08:43 PM
harryconway's Avatar
harryconway harryconway is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Pasadena, California, U.S.A.
Posts: 9,110
Default Re: My Rack that Rolls

It's the old "you get what you pay for". If you're not gonna put any more cash into a rack system, then you're pretty much "stuck" with some of these "personality quirks". Flying toms (using Yamaha mounts) off my Pearl rack never gave me any slippage problem. I'd pull that wallet out one more time and upgrade to a Pearl Icon. Gavin Harrison plays Sonor http://www.drumset.demon.co.uk/studio.htm but hangs them on a Pearl rack. You will notice your bass fuller. You've taken a lot of suspended weight off the shell with the rack.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-23-2007, 01:07 AM
Salicete's Avatar
Salicete Salicete is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Olney, Maryland
Posts: 426
Default Re: My Rack that Rolls

If your toms are slipping, there is a problem. They should stay in place. One of the great things about a rack is an easily repeatable setup. If the tom mounts slip, your drums won't even be in the same place from one stroke to the next.

Add to that, you are likely to over tighten and eventually strip the clamps in an effort to stop the slippage. I wouldn't mess with modification of the rack. If it does not work, it is not worth the money, no matter how inexpensive.

Wait until one of the clamps really gives out and a tom comes down tearing up the finish on your BD. If you can’t locate a rock solid rack, stick to stands.
__________________
“Success is no fun if you don’t have anyone with whom you can share it.”
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-23-2007, 07:53 AM
aydee aydee is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,293
Default Re: My Rack that Rolls

Quote:
Originally Posted by harryconway View Post
It's the old "you get what you pay for". If you're not gonna put any more cash into a rack system, then you're pretty much "stuck" with some of these "personality quirks". Flying toms (using Yamaha mounts) off my Pearl rack never gave me any slippage problem. I'd pull that wallet out one more time and upgrade to a Pearl Icon. Gavin Harrison plays Sonor http://www.drumset.demon.co.uk/studio.htm but hangs them on a Pearl rack. You will notice your bass fuller. You've taken a lot of suspended weight off the shell with the rack.
Thanks, Harry, that looks pretty rock solid. Does it weigh much? I'm trying to cut down stands etc.. I know you swear by YAMAHA hardware, but I'm less than thrilled with my yess tom mounts.. the ball slips a bit I think

So the more stuff I can et on a rack, the better I'll feel. Whats the $ damage on the Gavin's Pearl rack?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-23-2007, 08:09 AM
aydee aydee is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,293
Default Re: My Rack that Rolls

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salicete View Post
If your toms are slipping, there is a problem. They should stay in place. One of the great things about a rack is an easily repeatable setup. If the tom mounts slip, your drums won't even be in the same place from one stroke to the next.
your BD. If you can’t locate a rock solid rack, stick to stands.
I hear you on the over-tightening, I am tending to do that...
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-23-2007, 08:55 AM
harryconway's Avatar
harryconway harryconway is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Pasadena, California, U.S.A.
Posts: 9,110
Default Re: My Rack that Rolls

Quote:
Originally Posted by aydee View Post
I know you swear by YAMAHA hardware, but I'm less than thrilled with my yess tom mounts.. the ball slips a bit I think
So the more stuff I can et on a rack, the better I'll feel. Whats the $ damage on the Gavin's Pearl rack?
A 3 sided Icon rack is around $300. But that may not be relative to where you live, who you buy from and if you can score a used one. A drummer bud of mine sold his with 6 or 7 clamps for $250.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aydee View Post
I hear you on the over-tightening, I am tending to do that...
and that's a habit you really need to stop, if you want your hardware to last. Torquing down on wing nuts and clamps, bad bad bad.....don't know how much hardware I turned into junk before I had my "epiphimy", my "moment of clairity" and stopped using vice grip pressures on everything I owned. I've seen DW, Sonor and Gibraltar omni-ball mounts all succumb to over tightening, so perhaps that's what's happenned to your Yamaha uni-ball.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-23-2007, 01:43 PM
aydee aydee is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,293
Default Re: My Rack that Rolls

[quote=over tightening, so perhaps that's what's happenned to your Yamaha uni-ball.[/QUOTE]

I think you are right.. except , I've also got 25 year old TAMA hardware that works like a million bucks. I use it on my working kit in the studio. Nothing moves even a hair.

A three sided rack is probably what I need for the Yammies. I'll wait till I get a good deal.Till then, I'll rock my Manfrotto and de-choke my yamaha uni-balls...n see what does down ; )
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-24-2007, 04:34 AM
baz's Avatar
baz baz is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 971
Default Re: My Rack that Rolls

...Sat Sri Akall.

If it is the tom clamp that is slipping, you could try using a piece of electricians tape on the inside of the clamp to help prevent slippage. If it is the whole front bar that is twisting down wards, you could try a piece of tape on each corner clamp, Back when I used a rack, I would buy old used clamps, tubing, and whatever cheap rack parts that I could find. I had many clamps that were nearly stripped because of overtightening. I found that a little piece of tape inside the clamp would sometimes give the clamp enough resistance that it would hold, and it was cheaper than buying a new clamp. That to me was the biggest advantage to round tube racks. A dixon clamp was basically the same as a Gibralter clamp, only less expensive. The Pearl racks are really nice, but for Pearl racks you need Pearl clamps.

I did not know that Manfrotto made drum racks. I know that they make tripods, lighting and photo stands, and their quality is second to none. You may want to check out a camera store to see if they carry anything that could be adapted to your rack.

Good luck, and good drumming.

Barry
__________________
...if you can't keep it civil, at least make it funny.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-24-2007, 05:06 AM
harryconway's Avatar
harryconway harryconway is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Pasadena, California, U.S.A.
Posts: 9,110
Default Re: My Rack that Rolls

Quote:
Originally Posted by aydee View Post
I think you are right.. except , I've also got 25 year old TAMA hardware that works like a million bucks. I use it on my working kit in the studio. Nothing moves even a hair.
Then you know better than I how good the Yamaha hardware is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aydee View Post
...de-choke my yamaha uni-balls...n see what does down ; )
sorry, I just had too. May I "quote you" on that?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-24-2007, 05:10 AM
aydee aydee is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,293
Default Re: My Rack that Rolls

Quote:
Originally Posted by baz View Post
...Sat Sri Akall.

If it is the tom clamp that is slipping, you could try using a piece of electricians tape on the inside of the clamp to help prevent slippage. If it is the whole front bar that is twisting down wards, you could try a piece of tape on each corner clamp, Back when I used a rack, I would buy old used clamps, tubing, and whatever cheap rack parts that I could find. I had many clamps that were nearly stripped because of overtightening. I found that a little piece of tape inside the clamp would sometimes give the clamp enough resistance that it would hold, and it was cheaper than buying a new clamp. That to me was the biggest advantage to round tube racks. A dixon clamp was basically the same as a Gibralter clamp, only less expensive. The Pearl racks are really nice, but for Pearl racks you need Pearl clamps.

I did not know that Manfrotto made drum racks. I know that they make tripods, lighting and photo stands, and their quality is second to none. You may want to check out a camera store to see if they carry anything that could be adapted to your rack.

Good luck, and good drumming.

Barry
Thanks, Barry, will try that. I think I need to fine tune the balance of the legs with the cross bar. I think if they sit better, more perpendicular,
the rack might vibrate less and therefore hopefully there's less slippage.

Whats great about this rack is that it is so damn lightweight ( drummers delight ).

Just as long as I dont have to keep pushing my 12" tom off the bass drum every 20 minutes ( which is probably killing my Yamaha uni-ball ), this would be just fine.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-24-2007, 01:41 PM
altered_beast's Avatar
altered_beast altered_beast is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Boston, Lincs, U.K.
Posts: 554
Default Re: My Rack that Rolls

I can see why that would "rock" a bit - there's nothing supporting the legs of the rack in front of the kit. I see the triangles heading toward the throne from either side of the rack but there's nothing going the other way. I don't mean to sound like I'm being rude or anything but that rack just doesn't look very stable or well constructed. In theory it's great but you've hardly loaded it up and if it's rocking now imagine what it could be like with a setup like mine (there's a post from aaaaaaaaaaaaaages ago in the your gear section with my kit on)!! I'd definitely recommend if you want to go for a rack go for a Pearl ICON one. They're top notch, I've yet to hear a bad word said about them. I've never ever had any setup issues.

On another note, you're the first person I've heard have any complaints about the Yamaha YESS mounting system - the uni-ball system should be fine, I can't understand why they would be slipping?!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-24-2007, 03:51 PM
aydee aydee is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,293
Default Re: My Rack that Rolls

Quote:
Originally Posted by altered_beast View Post
I can see why that would "rock" a bit - there's nothing supporting the legs of the rack in front of the kit. I see the triangles heading toward the throne from either side of the rack but there's nothing going the other way. I don't mean to sound like I'm being rude or anything but that rack just doesn't look very stable or well constructed. In theory it's great but you've hardly loaded it up and if it's rocking now imagine what it could be like with a setup like mine (there's a post from aaaaaaaaaaaaaages ago in the your gear section with my kit on)!! I'd definitely recommend if you want to go for a rack go for a Pearl ICON one. They're top notch, I've yet to hear a bad word said about them. I've never ever had any setup issues.

On another note, you're the first person I've heard have any complaints about the Yamaha YESS mounting system - the uni-ball system should be fine, I can't understand why they would be slipping?!
Pearl Icon seems to be the unanimous recommendation. I dont have much experience with racks. Luckily, my drum store guy is nice enough to take this back if I dont like it. I thought the counter balance of the toms/cymbals is what keeps it in place.

YESS mount tom holders! I, dont know... I've had ball based TAMA hardware for years... no problems. Its not like I used to over tighten and strip the innards.

Maybe this lot are faulty , tho I am tending to overtighen now to compensate for this problem. The ball does have some visible gashes :(
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-24-2007, 06:20 PM
fourstringdrums
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: My Rack that Rolls

I agree that adding a side extension will help the rack from rocking a bit. But the slippage from the tom clamps is something that will only get worse after a while. If it were me, I would get a Pearl Icon rack as well...actually if it were me, I wouldn't have a rack at all. You have a relatively small setup, so I don't see any reason for a rack personally.

I'd personally put the middle toms back on the bass, hang the 8" tom off a cymbal stand holding your first crash, and have the second crash and ride on separate stands. Or if you want to get the toms off the bass, have a double tom stand for your 8 & 10 with a cymbal holder clamped to it for the first crash, and have a tom holder clamped to a stand holding your second crash.

You can get lightweight hardware for only a little bit more than you'd pay for this rack and it will be more sturdy, and not be overkill which is what I think a rack is on a kit of this size.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-24-2007, 06:22 PM
fourstringdrums
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: My Rack that Rolls

Quote:
Originally Posted by aydee View Post
Pearl Icon seems to be the unanimous recommendation. I dont have much experience with racks. Luckily, my drum store guy is nice enough to take this back if I dont like it. I thought the counter balance of the toms/cymbals is what keeps it in place.

YESS mount tom holders! I, dont know... I've had ball based TAMA hardware for years... no problems. Its not like I used to over tighten and strip the innards.

Maybe this lot are faulty , tho I am tending to overtighen now to compensate for this problem. The ball does have some visible gashes :(
All mounting balls are going to have gashes. It's probably not that that is slipping, it's the clamp on the rack.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-24-2007, 07:37 PM
aydee aydee is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,293
Default Re: My Rack that Rolls

[QUOTE=fourstringdrums;

2 things, Rob. Firstly, to me, the Bass drum actually does sound fuller without the 10" and 12" sitting on it.

Second, I'm waiting on some cymbal extensions to load up an 8" splash, and another 17" crash onto the rack. Also need to see how I can fit in my 16" China boy in there somewhere. So thats 3 more cymbals.

The big idea behind the rack was really was to lose all the cymbal stand tripods, around the kit and off the travel wagon.

any thoughts?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-24-2007, 10:40 PM
fourstringdrums
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: My Rack that Rolls

[quote=aydee;363140][quote=fourstringdrums;

2 things, Rob. Firstly, to me, the Bass drum actually does sound fuller without the 10" and 12" sitting on it.

Second, I'm waiting on some cymbal extensions to load up an 8" splash, and another 17" crash onto the rack. Also need to see how I can fit in my 16" China boy in there somewhere. So thats 3 more cymbals.

The big idea behind the rack was really was to lose all the cymbal stand tripods, around the kit and off the travel wagon.

any thoughts?[/QUOTE]

Well, I have about that many cymbals and I just have each cymbal on a Gibraltar Flat Base stand. My 12" tom is on a snare stand, although I'm planning on getting a 10" so I'd probably fly each tom off a straight stand with a clamp. I like the flat base stands more because I find they're easier to position and reduce the footprint a bit.

But I can see the need for wanting a rack once you start adding that many cymbals. I would honestly just get a Pearl Rack. It will stay solid forever. Even if this rack was solid, eventually any rack with round tubing starts slipping as the clamps get older.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09-25-2007, 03:56 AM
harryconway's Avatar
harryconway harryconway is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Pasadena, California, U.S.A.
Posts: 9,110
Default Re: My Rack that Rolls

I'd do a couple of experiments, if you haven't done so yet. If it's only the 12" tom that's slipping, put a piece of tape on the bar tube, aligned with an edge/mark/spot easily identified on the clamp itself. Within 20 minutes, you'll know whether it's clamp rotation or Yamaha omni-ball movement. Next, if it's the Yamaha moving, swap it with the 8" tom holder. I've run much heavier drums on my Yamaha mounts, but if you've got movement, you've got movement. Question though. Before the rack, did the tom mounts slip at all?
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-25-2007, 05:16 AM
aydee aydee is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,293
Default Re: My Rack that Rolls

[quote=harryconway;. Question though. Before the rack, did the tom mounts slip at all?[/QUOTE]

yes, I think just a hair though I could'nt swear to it. The 12" YESS holder just doesnt feel right when i tighten it. As of now, I think the culprit IS the tom holder. Will try the tape experiment n see what happens. good idea.

I also think I'll re-set up the rack and ensure that the legs are angled perpendicular to the floor. That should tell me if the rack is stable to begin with, or not.

If all this fails, PEARL, here I come.........
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com