DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > Drum Gear > Heads and Sticks

Heads and Sticks Discuss Heads and Sticks

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #41  
Old 07-30-2007, 09:24 PM
Legacyrik's Avatar
Legacyrik Legacyrik is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 294
Default Re: I've had it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by That Guy View Post
I appreciate your attack on my technique ethanos. Its amazing how you can draw such a conclusion even though I have been playing for the better half of 24 years. That might be longer than you have been alive for all I know. You didn't place your age or any info on your profile, so I can't really tell. I will just chalk that one up to ignorance. Also, did you notice that I am not the only one with the same issue? Are you saying that everyone who has my issue has improper technique, cuz it sure appears to be that way.

I am actually amazed that you would say something about my technique when.. #1, I have never posted a video of my playing, or #2, posted any type of sound file of my playing. Do you see where I am going with this?

Sorry if I seem perturbed my friends, but that comment did get to me. I'm only human.

Thanks again everyone for your suggestions.. I will keep you all informed on my little stick journey here.. lol.

Yeah keep that open mind, hope it serves you well..

Next..

what attack, you come on here talking about needing iron sticks and he suggested you look at your technique. sounds logical, I believe most people think you are nuts busting sticks like you say you do. 24 years of poor technique it would appear....

You have many years on me but I don't care, the only time I busted a newish stick was trying to do "High Moller" after watching Dom do it on his video... Even then I busted it because of bad technique. Try letting the stick rebound and quit your bitching...

Sorry that last comment really got to me.
__________________
We need speed. Greasy fast speed.....
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 07-30-2007, 11:01 PM
That Guy's Avatar
That Guy That Guy is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,655
Default Re: I've had it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legacyrik View Post
Yeah keep that open mind, hope it serves you well..

Next..

what attack, you come on here talking about needing iron sticks and he suggested you look at your technique. sounds logical, I believe most people think you are nuts busting sticks like you say you do. 24 years of poor technique it would appear....

You have many years on me but I don't care, the only time I busted a newish stick was trying to do "High Moller" after watching Dom do it on his video... Even then I busted it because of bad technique. Try letting the stick rebound and quit your bitching...

Sorry that last comment really got to me.
Ya, I kinda took offense for no good reason.. it happens. Sorry ethanos. As I stated previously in the thread.. the reason for my sticks breaking so much is because I constantly rimshot on my snare. It's my style and its what I like. I love the loud THWACK it gives. Vic Firth 5A's never used to break this much until the last 2 years or so. I just love my rimshots.

Last edited by That Guy; 07-30-2007 at 11:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 07-30-2007, 11:53 PM
Sirwill's Avatar
Sirwill Sirwill is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Southington, Ohio
Posts: 585
Default Re: I've had it!

Well I must say I have been using Pro-Mark 727 wood tips since 1982 or so and they last so long I usually break them in two after months of playing just because they loss a little weight after light wood shedding. Make sure you are NOT hitting the stick directly on the cymbal "Sharp Edge" and you should be fine...
__________________
" Rhythm In The Hands Of Few" Billy Twinem
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 07-31-2007, 01:21 AM
ethanos ethanos is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Richmond Hill, On
Posts: 52
Default Re: I've had it!

I can play rimshots all day on my snare without breaking a pair of vic firth 5a's. The fact that you play rimshots on your snare is no excuse for breaking multiple pairs of sticks a week. If you played with proper technique, rimshots included, you wouldnt have this issue. I remember when i first started playing drumset, before i had had any lessons at all, and had a total of 0 technique. Needless to say i played very very hard, with frequent rimshots. However even in this specific case, i only replaced my sticks about once a month. In my opinion, it would actually take effort, especially for a such an experienced drummer like yourself who has been playing for 24 years, to break sticks that often whilst playing with proper technique. Thus leading me to my previous conclusion.

If you are breaking sticks as often as you say you are, are indeed a heavy hitter like you yourself mentioned previously, your technique is inherently bad in those specific respects. Keep in mind that this is merely my own personal opinion, and that my two posts were merely constructive theoretical criticism based on the information you provided about your own playing, and from your description of the problem. I cannot stress enough that volume comes from stick height, not from physical strength. Yes... even rimshots.

ethanos
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 07-31-2007, 02:19 AM
That Guy's Avatar
That Guy That Guy is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,655
Default Re: I've had it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanos View Post
. I cannot stress enough that volume comes from stick height, not from physical strength. Yes... even rimshots.

ethanos
The funny thing is... I really don't try to hit hard. I don't exert myself in any way that I know of. My stick height at its max when playing can't be more than 6 to 8 inches... so I think.

I guess I just need to have an instructor check me out.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 07-31-2007, 03:40 AM
LayinDown's Avatar
LayinDown LayinDown is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northeast Philly-ish
Posts: 85
Default Re: I've had it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by That Guy View Post
I guess I just need to have an instructor check me out.
That may be a really good idea. My favorite thing about old-timers is that they always know they have more to learn.

I personally play VF 5AN's and they hold up fairly well for me; I'm not much of a hard hitter, however.

I like the fact that you want to keep your rimshots - sacrafice nothing! You might find out that the Vaters are perfect for you - good luck, pal!
__________________
Mapex*Evans*Vic Firth*Sabian
[philippians 4:13]
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 07-31-2007, 04:45 AM
Cymbalrider's Avatar
Cymbalrider Cymbalrider is offline
Pioneer Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,611
Default Re: I've had it!

I have a pair of Vic Firth 5As from the 1990s and they are worn out, never broken but I still have them sitting around. I have a new pair of a few months and they are doing just fine. I think the new 5As are a bit heavier than the old ones so I would say they are more durable. I play anything from rock and roll to big band jazz, and play with a 5 person jazz combo so I have a large range of dynamics. My 5As are mainly used for practicing in which I essentially put on head phones and pretend to be Buddy Rich :) I can get pretty loud or fast but never hard. You can get the same sound/volume from a nice simple wrist motion as you can with a full arm power strike. One just damages stuff the other doesn't. The only sticks I've had to break were: a pair of Zildjian Dip 5As (which broke on my Roland TD6 rubber pad kit which I figure was a defective stick), the tip of a pair of Innovative Percussion Ed Soph models, and marching snare sticks on a marching snare drum. I have a pair of SD5 Echos the lightest thinnest stick on the market and they have never broken yet after a few years. If you break sticks continually, there is a problem with you most likely. I do believe in the occasional bad stick or accident but breaking anything heavier than a 7A on a regular basis is not good.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 07-31-2007, 02:07 PM
jazzin''s Avatar
jazzin' jazzin' is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 685
Default Re: I've had it!

Hey That Guy, if your problem persists even with the Vaters, which I think are great sticks, check out this thing for hard hitters that like their rimshots. I can't remember what it's called but I believe it's a wooden thing that covers about a quarter of your rim on the snare to protect the metal rim from fraying and/or snapping your stick. Try doing some research on the net to see if you can find them. They could be terrible or they could be worth a look. Check out a heavier stick as well. If you're used to the 5A's, playing lighter with a larger stick will still give the volume you're after while doing less damage. It won't take that long to get used to.
__________________
Drum lessons, articles: Melbourne Drumming - online
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 07-31-2007, 03:40 PM
Legacyrik's Avatar
Legacyrik Legacyrik is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 294
Default Re: I've had it!

Have you tried using a heavier stick like a 2b? Maybe not even that big, but bigger... I'm sure you have, it just seems like you are trying to force these smaller sticks to play a big stick role..

I'm currently using a 2b, I like the 5b extremes also...


Good luck,

Rik
__________________
We need speed. Greasy fast speed.....
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 07-31-2007, 11:45 PM
That Guy's Avatar
That Guy That Guy is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,655
Default Re: I've had it!

Hey jazzin'.. yes, I know what you are talking about and I never thought of that. Thats definately a suggestion that I will keep in mind. I'm going to have an instructor check out my playing and see if I need a correction in my technique first. If I do have a problem, the last thing I wanna do is mask it. We shall see.


Legacyrik... yes I have tried many different sizes. I only use 5B's becuase they last longer, and truthfully, thats the only reason. I'm not a fan of thicker sticks, my hands are a little small for them. Even with playing 5B's for an extended period of time they still feel big in my hands and seem a little too heavy for my taste.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 09-11-2007, 03:49 AM
Creothcean Creothcean is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 21
Default Re: I've had it!

In my opinion Pro-mark is the way to go. I started using them last year and have been hooked ever since.

I use the maple Ed Shaughnessy 707 series, which is, in my humble opinion, the most perfect stick ever made.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 09-11-2007, 04:24 AM
brennenlesser's Avatar
brennenlesser brennenlesser is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Tampa, Fl
Posts: 231
Default Re: I've had it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by That Guy View Post
I'm so sick of buying sticks! Vic Firth's 5A's have become complete junk in my opinon. I just bought this pair a few hours ago and they have already snapped. They have had to switch quality of wood or thier production standards lately... because they snap so much easier than ever before. Granted, I am a hard hitter, but I have never gone through as many sticks in my lifetime as I have gone through in the last 2 years.

I am actually considering switching to Ahead's. The thought of that really eats me alive! But, I am getting to that point. I am seriously beginning to think it would be better to sacrafice the sound of my Hi-Hat and Cymbals then to buy another pair of sticks. Yes, I use 5B's too.

Pro-mark seems to be a bit more consistent, but not enough for my taste. I really hate to think of actually buying Ahead's, but I'm just so sick of paying 10 bucks every 3 days for a pair of sticks!

I'm sorry if this offends... but I need to rant.

ur signature is so true haha
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 09-11-2007, 04:24 AM
brennenlesser's Avatar
brennenlesser brennenlesser is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Tampa, Fl
Posts: 231
Default Re: I've had it!

i only buy sticks that are VERY VERY grainy
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 09-11-2007, 10:19 AM
Wavelength's Avatar
Wavelength Wavelength is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,048
Default Re: I've had it!

That's funny. I've pretty much always used Vic Firth 7As, and it seems they're getting more and more durable. Or maybe it's just me growing softer...
__________________
I play Kumu Drums. I also shoot videos.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 09-11-2007, 11:27 AM
Big_Philly
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: I've had it!

I rarely break a pair of VF 5A's. When I do it's because they're months (!) old and weakened from all the beating. I am a medium hitter.
But when you play a rimshot maybe you should try to change the angle of your stik so the most stress is where the stick hits the head rather than the hoop. If you really press your stick into the hoop when you do a rim shot it's really not good for your stick.
And use a whipping motion so that the volume comes from the momentum of your stick rather than the force of your wrists. So when you hit the rim and head your muscles should be as relaxed as possible.

Hope it helps.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 09-11-2007, 11:35 PM
That Guy's Avatar
That Guy That Guy is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,655
Default Re: I've had it!

Wow.. I forgot I made this thread. Just to let everyone know, the "Vater Xtreme 5A's" have been a blessing. They hold up well and I'm still using the same pair.

Thats my new stick of choice!
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 09-12-2007, 02:08 AM
Salicete's Avatar
Salicete Salicete is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Olney, Maryland
Posts: 426
Default Re: I've had it!

I read this thread with some interest; a lot of good suggestions were provided, but the obvious was not mentioned.

To a great degree, broken sticks are the cost of doing business for drummers, especially heavy hitters, and those who ride the rims a lot.
It is not that most drummers are doing anything wrong with regard to technique, (ok, except brand new players), it is just the nature of the beast.

Metal hoops are harder than wood, the outcome is obvious. A couple of folks mentioned buying bricks of sticks, and that is just what many drummers do. Granted, some stick manufacturers produce a superior product, and their sticks may last longer.

It sounds like you found what you were looking for with the Vaters, that’s great! Personally, I use Pro*mark 747B Super Rocks, and have found them to be quite durable. If they fail, it is usually at the tip, as opposed to splitting along the grain like many sticks.

Sticks to drummers are like strings to guitar players; they just wear out eventually. I'm glad you found some that better suit your needs. Just out of curiosity, how long do you get our of a pair of the Vater sticks on average?
__________________
“Success is no fun if you don’t have anyone with whom you can share it.”
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 09-12-2007, 02:24 AM
That Guy's Avatar
That Guy That Guy is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,655
Default Re: I've had it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salicete View Post
Just out of curiosity, how long do you get our of a pair of the Vater sticks on average?
Hey there Salicete! I have only had the Vaters for about a month now, so I can't really give you an answer. What I do know is that the Vaters have much less damage compared to the Vic's considering the time frame. They still have great form, no splitting, and the varnish is still in-tact as if they have only been used a few times.

It appears that the Vaters have more of a protective varnish than Vic's. If thats the key... then I tell Vater... "run with it" cuz it works.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 09-12-2007, 02:41 AM
dizkneelande's Avatar
dizkneelande dizkneelande is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Memphis Tennesee
Posts: 331
Default Re: I've had it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendozart View Post
Promark oak sticks, they will do the job.

I had the same problem with vf's. then I switched to the promark japanese oak and haven't broke one yet. I had the same pair for at least 10 gigs but then some guy in the audience payed me 20$ for em so they had to go lol. They'll probably last him as long as I had them. I'm very impressed with these sticks. I went from breaking two pairs a gig to none at all.
__________________
One mans bass drum is another mans floor tom
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 09-12-2007, 03:07 AM
YamahaDrummerAus's Avatar
YamahaDrummerAus YamahaDrummerAus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Adelaide, South Australia, Australia
Posts: 284
Default Re: I've had it!

Same here. I used to use VF 5A's. They would snap easily and the tips would chip very quickly.

I know use Pro Mark Japanese Oak 747 Nylon tipped sticks. They last for ages! They are thin, but the weight is perfect for me. I dont like the Hickory version of the same stick, they are too light and hurt my hands. But the 747N is perfect :)

Either my technique has improved, or its the stick.


Tom
__________________
http://myspace.com/hybridillusion - My Band
Yamaha
Paiste
Pro Mark
Aquarian
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 09-12-2007, 09:05 AM
masonni's Avatar
masonni masonni is online now
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: North Hollywood, CA
Posts: 1,329
Default Re: I've had it!

I have played Vater, Vic, Pro Mark, Zildjian and Regal Tip.... Switched over to Ahead full time and never looked back. Mostly because of my wrists though. I have pain in my left hand while playing wood sticks from the natural vibrations, Ahead takes the pain away with the Anti-Vib system inside them. It kills the rebound in the sticks, but that just makes you work a little harder on rolls, no big deal.
As for breaking them, yeah... it happens, but not as much as wood. I did a little money study on sticks once. An avarage pair of sticks will cost you around $7 per pair. Ahead cost $30. In an avarage year I break $90 worth of Ahead sticks and over $7,000 of wood...

I think I have made my point.
__________________
nickmason.org
facebook
Twitter
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com