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  #1  
Old 08-28-2007, 12:48 AM
mikei mikei is offline
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Default New Head Combo. Coated Emps over Coaded Amb

Hello all,

I know this may be hypocritical, but bear with me.

Even though I have participated in the "Remo Bashing", I decided to go with Coated Emps over Coated Ambs for my Ludwig Zep Set.

I tried to go G2 or G1s, but the didn't have the G2 18 inch, so I figured I would roll the dice.

I can honestly say after 3 or 4 hours of playing that the sound is unbelieveable. Very warm and round. Not too much resonance.

I will inform you if I notice coating issues like I did on my Coated Emp snare head.

I want to thank everyone out here for the almost 2 years of great advice. You have made my learning curve much shorter.

Mike
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  #2  
Old 08-28-2007, 10:55 AM
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Default Re: New Head Combo. Coated Emps over Coaded Amb

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Originally Posted by mikei View Post
Hello all,

I know this may be hypocritical, but bear with me.

Even though I have participated in the "Remo Bashing", I decided to go with Coated Emps over Coated Ambs for my Ludwig Zep Set.

I tried to go G2 or G1s, but the didn't have the G2 18 inch, so I figured I would roll the dice.

I can honestly say after 3 or 4 hours of playing that the sound is unbelieveable. Very warm and round. Not too much resonance.

I will inform you if I notice coating issues like I did on my Coated Emp snare head.

I want to thank everyone out here for the almost 2 years of great advice. You have made my learning curve much shorter.

Mike
Good to hear, Remo Emperors are awesome if you get good ones that resonate and are all equal in tonal characteristics once they're on the drums. Enjoy that Zep kit!
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  #3  
Old 08-31-2007, 08:30 AM
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Skitch Skitch is offline
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Default Re: New Head Combo. Coated Emps over Coaded Amb

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikei View Post
Hello all,

I know this may be hypocritical, but bear with me.

Even though I have participated in the "Remo Bashing", I decided to go with Coated Emps over Coated Ambs for my Ludwig Zep Set.

I tried to go G2 or G1s, but the didn't have the G2 18 inch, so I figured I would roll the dice.

I can honestly say after 3 or 4 hours of playing that the sound is unbelieveable. Very warm and round. Not too much resonance.

I will inform you if I notice coating issues like I did on my Coated Emp snare head.

I want to thank everyone out here for the almost 2 years of great advice. You have made my learning curve much shorter.

Mike
This is one of my favorite combinations. Bryan Hitt of REO Speedwagon uses a similiar combination and this is great set up for Rock music.

Mike

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  #4  
Old 08-31-2007, 10:25 AM
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harryconway harryconway is offline
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Default Re: New Head Combo. Coated Emps over Coaded Amb

"Bonham always used Remo Coated 2-Ply Emperor drum heads on the batter side and Remo Coated Ambassador 1-ply drum heads on the resonant side..." taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bonham , at least that was what he recorded with.
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Originally Posted by Skitch View Post
This is one of my favorite combinations. Bryan Hitt of REO Speedwagon uses a similiar combination and this is great set up for Rock music.

Mike

[
Good chance Alan Gratzer used that same head combo. (original drummer for REO)
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  #5  
Old 08-31-2007, 10:55 AM
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Default Re: New Head Combo. Coated Emps over Coaded Amb

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Originally Posted by harryconway View Post
"Bonham always used Remo Coated 2-Ply Emperor drum heads on the batter side and Remo Coated Ambassador 1-ply drum heads on the resonant side..." taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bonham , at least that was what he recorded with.

Good chance Alan Gratzer used that same head combo. (original drummer for REO)
A long time ago when REO was in their heyday, I read in Modern Drummer that Alan Gratzer used coated ambassadors over clear ambassadors live and in the studio.
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  #6  
Old 08-31-2007, 03:40 PM
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fijjibo fijjibo is offline
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Default Re: New Head Combo. Coated Emps over Coaded Amb

The combination of heads there is great - but I cant get over the hurdle that the coating wears off so quickly.

All the Remo heads I have tried sounded great but wore out.
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  #7  
Old 08-31-2007, 08:23 PM
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Default Re: New Head Combo. Coated Emps over Coaded Amb

Except on snare, I haven't used coated drum heads in 28 years.
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  #8  
Old 08-31-2007, 08:32 PM
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Default Re: New Head Combo. Coated Emps over Coaded Amb

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Originally Posted by harryconway View Post
Except on snare, I haven't used coated drum heads in 28 years.
Something inside me finds that hard to believe, but I trust you.

28 years eh?

Any reason in particular, or just a developed taste?
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  #9  
Old 08-31-2007, 08:56 PM
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Default Re: New Head Combo. Coated Emps over Coaded Amb

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Originally Posted by fijjibo View Post
Something inside me finds that hard to believe, but I trust you.

28 years eh?

Any reason in particular, or just a developed taste?
In 1979, I bought matching Ludwig clear Vistalite 22x16 kicks and roto-toms (10, 12, 14, 16, 18), added some clear 14x10 Zickos rack toms, and basically said "goodbye" to coated heads. Didn't use they on my Yamaha Recording Customs and don't use them on my Ludwig 26, 15, 16, 18 six ply's. "Developed taste"? Something like that, I guess.
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  #10  
Old 08-31-2007, 11:10 PM
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Default Re: New Head Combo. Coated Emps over Coaded Amb

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Originally Posted by harryconway View Post
In 1979, I bought matching Ludwig clear Vistalite 22x16 kicks and roto-toms (10, 12, 14, 16, 18), added some clear 14x10 Zickos rack toms, and basically said "goodbye" to coated heads. Didn't use they on my Yamaha Recording Customs and don't use them on my Ludwig 26, 15, 16, 18 six ply's. "Developed taste"? Something like that, I guess.
I use them on my Yamaha maple customs now, but I always used clear ambassadors or emperors on my recording custom kit. The coated heads just sounded to warm and fuzzy on the RC's. I think coated heads would sound good on your 6 ply Ludwig toms, but that's just me. I like a coated head on maple shells, but I have used both. Sometimes I go back and forth depending on my mood and whether or not I feel like exploring sounds again. I'll get used to the sound I'm getting and read about someone's kit and sound, try some new heads and see what happens. 9 times out of 10, I come back to what I used before. Do you know what I mean?
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  #11  
Old 09-01-2007, 08:53 AM
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Default Re: New Head Combo. Coated Emps over Coaded Amb

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Originally Posted by cdrums21 View Post
.... I think coated heads would sound good on your 6 ply Ludwig toms...
I not only know they would, I know they do. My "history" with Remo coated heads goes back to somewhere around 1965. Everyone used them. I now lean towards "clear" Ambassador, Controlled Sound, Powerstroke 3, Emperor and Pinstripe heads. And those are the heads I spend my money on. But I play lots of different sets (and tune them as well), so I still have a lot of experience with coated heads.
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  #12  
Old 09-01-2007, 09:10 AM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default Re: New Head Combo. Coated Emps over Coaded Amb

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Originally Posted by harryconway View Post
I not only know they would, I know they do. My "history" with Remo coated heads goes back to somewhere around 1965. Everyone used them. I now lean towards "clear" Ambassador, Controlled Sound, Powerstroke 3, Emperor and Pinstripe heads. And those are the heads I spend my money on. But I play lots of different sets (and tune them as well), so I still have a lot of experience with coated heads.
Hi Harry, what would you suggest I try on my 24"x14" Tama Imperial star Bass drum( poplar shell ) for a 3 piece guitar, bass, drums, loud fusion type set up. Right now I've got a single headed pin stripe with a lot of muffling ( hate that, but we're in a studio session ). Its working good enough, but let me pick your brain. Hey, Clint, if you read this, feel free to pitch in too.
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  #13  
Old 09-01-2007, 10:38 AM
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Default Re: New Head Combo. Coated Emps over Coaded Amb

I like to play my kicks wide open (no laundry, pillows, blankets, etc. inside). If you want a tight sound, but you want your 24 to still have the "boom", try a Powerstroke 3 batter and reso. I usually always start any kick drum off with a clear Powerstroke 3 batter and an ebony Ambassador reso. And then I go from there. It's all about the sound "you want". And don't be afraid to change your sound. I used to run Pinstripes batter on all my Vistalites, because the acrylic shells were so "live" by nature. In any given size kick, I might have 5 different Remo heads. And I can probably get any combination to sound good, just depends on what you want the kick to sound like. In your case, with a Pinstripe batter already, pull all the cloth out of your kick and put a Pin. reso. (you might have one already lying around). If you need more muffling, add a felt strip. Need less? Put an Emperor into the equation, or a P3. I prefer my drums to sound open, so I tend to favor single ply heads. 24x14 is a great size.
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  #14  
Old 09-02-2007, 08:30 PM
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Default Re: New Head Combo. Coated Emps over Coaded Amb

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Originally Posted by aydee View Post
Hi Harry, what would you suggest I try on my 24"x14" Tama Imperial star Bass drum( poplar shell ) for a 3 piece guitar, bass, drums, loud fusion type set up. Right now I've got a single headed pin stripe with a lot of muffling ( hate that, but we're in a studio session ). Its working good enough, but let me pick your brain. Hey, Clint, if you read this, feel free to pitch in too.
I'm with Harry in that I like my drums to be as open as possible. With the bass drum, it depends on the sound you're after and if you are going to be miked up at all. I love a bass drum that has both heads intact and gives a nice low end boom without too much ringing overtones. In the situation you speak of, I would probably go with a PS3 batter and a PS3 resonant head. The drum will still boom, maybe a bit too much for your liking, it depends.

If you're going to me miked up, then you could put a very small hole (3 to 4 inches in diameter) in the front head at about the "4 o'clock" position on the head. It will reduce the boom alot and enable a microphone to get in there. If you want to keep the sound of both heads intact, you may have to do as Harry said and add a felt strip or use some other kind of muffling. Bass drums with both heads intact seem to give sound engineers alot of trouble when mic-ing them as they have a hard time getting them to punch like those where the mic can be placed inside the drum or in a hole in the resonant head.

With me, in the current situation I'm playing in, I need to satisfy my ear and the sound companies that do our sound live. So, I currently run an Emad (single ply head with an external muffling ring) with a PS resonant head ( see my avatar), no other muffling, with a small hole (4") in the front head. It gives me a tight enough sound with just a little boom for good stage presence and the sound guys love it. If I were playing un-miced, I would probably run both heads intact with the PS3/PS3 combination. I hope this info helps.
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  #15  
Old 09-02-2007, 08:44 PM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default Re: New Head Combo. Coated Emps over Coaded Amb

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Originally Posted by cdrums21 View Post
I'm with Harry in that I like my drums to be as open as possible. With the bass drum, it depends on the sound you're after and if you are going to be miked up at all. I love a bass drum that has both heads intact and gives a nice low end boom without too much ringing overtones. In the situation you speak of, I would probably go with a PS3 batter and a PS3 resonant head. The drum will still boom, maybe a bit too much for your liking, it depends.

If you're going to me miked up, then you could put a very small hole (3 to 4 inches in diameter) in the front head at about the "4 o'clock" position on the head. It will reduce the boom alot and enable a microphone to get in there. If you want to keep the sound of both heads intact, you may have to do as Harry said and add a felt strip or use some other kind of muffling. Bass drums with both heads intact seem to give sound engineers alot of trouble when mic-ing them as they have a hard time getting them to punch like those where the mic can be placed inside the drum or in a hole in the resonant head.

With me, in the current situation I'm playing in, I need to satisfy my ear and the sound companies that do our sound live. So, I currently run an Emad (single ply head with an external muffling ring) with a PS resonant head ( see my avatar), no other muffling, with a small hole (4") in the front head. It gives me a tight enough sound with just a little boom for good stage presence and the sound guys love it. If I were playing un-miced, I would probably run both heads intact with the PS3/PS3 combination. I hope this info helps.
thanks for the advice guys. Yes, the engineers got his own way of doing things. He is using two overheads ( Dont ask me what mics, Im very lo-tech in the studio ) and a bass drum mic kind of shoved in with my " Laundry" : )

He also wants to cut my tom sustains and muffle them down ( dont understand why if we're not close-micing ) . The kit is sound ok though... except the kick.The Eqed sound is too wet and floppy, not my taste, though the engineers thinks it will fit the overall mix. The amount of muffling I've got currently on the BD is insane. If I was even to suggest my using a ported reso, he'd burst a blood vessel, I'm afraid.
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  #16  
Old 09-02-2007, 10:00 PM
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Default Re: New Head Combo. Coated Emps over Coaded Amb

Always several ways to mic a kick, several ways to get a good studio drum sound, etc. I usually always let the engineer and/or producer do their thing. (too many cooks spoil...) 'cause if it ain't my dime, well, I figure I know my drums sound good. If someone makes them sound "bad" on a recording, that's their fault, 'cause they had the control.
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  #17  
Old 09-03-2007, 01:43 AM
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Default Re: New Head Combo. Coated Emps over Coaded Amb

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Originally Posted by aydee View Post
thanks for the advice guys. Yes, the engineers got his own way of doing things. He is using two overheads ( Dont ask me what mics, Im very lo-tech in the studio ) and a bass drum mic kind of shoved in with my " Laundry" : )

He also wants to cut my tom sustains and muffle them down ( dont understand why if we're not close-micing ) . The kit is sound ok though... except the kick.The Eqed sound is too wet and floppy, not my taste, though the engineers thinks it will fit the overall mix. The amount of muffling I've got currently on the BD is insane. If I was even to suggest my using a ported reso, he'd burst a blood vessel, I'm afraid.
Sounds like this guy is set in his ways and is old school as far as getting a dead drum sound with all the muffling and intentions of eliminating sustain from toms. All you can really do in that situation is tune your drums as good as you can and let the engineer tweak the kit as far as muffling and the like. Like harry said, if he's in control, it's his reputation on the line of whether or not he gets a good drum sound. Good luck my friend!
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Old 09-04-2007, 10:11 AM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default Re: New Head Combo. Coated Emps over Coaded Amb

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Originally Posted by cdrums21 View Post
Sounds like this guy is set in his ways and is old school as far as getting a dead drum sound with all the muffling and intentions of eliminating sustain from toms. All you can really do in that situation is tune your drums as good as you can and let the engineer tweak the kit as far as muffling and the like. Like harry said, if he's in control, it's his reputation on the line of whether or not he gets a good drum sound. Good luck my friend!
Hey Harry/ Clint! ( sounds like a law firm; 0 )

Ok, I ripped off a guitar riff we're working with ,on a straight simple steady looped groove, so you guys can comment on the drum sound with some music ( no toms yet, he still working with the rest of the sound ). Feel free to rip into it. thanks

DrenAlin.mp3

Last edited by aydee; 09-04-2007 at 10:57 AM.
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  #19  
Old 09-04-2007, 11:24 AM
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Default Re: New Head Combo. Coated Emps over Coaded Amb

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Originally Posted by aydee View Post
Hey Harry/ Clint! ( sounds like a law firm; 0 )

Ok, I ripped off a guitar riff we're working with ,on a straight simple steady looped groove, so you guys can comment on the drum sound with some music ( no toms yet, he still working with the rest of the sound ). Feel free to rip into it. thanks

Attachment 14207
Hey Aydee,
Nice playing! The sound is decent, nice tight kick and snare. I think with some post production you could get a pretty nice drum sound from that basic track. It sounds like the kick is muffled alot, but it has a nice low end thud to it and with some effects, it could sound pretty sweet. Likewise with the snare. A little processing and you should have a nice sounding track.
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  #20  
Old 09-04-2007, 06:05 PM
aydee aydee is offline
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Default Re: New Head Combo. Coated Emps over Coaded Amb

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Originally Posted by cdrums21 View Post
Hey Aydee,
Nice playing! The sound is decent, nice tight kick and snare. I think with some post production you could get a pretty nice drum sound from that basic track. It sounds like the kick is muffled alot, but it has a nice low end thud to it and with some effects, it could sound pretty sweet. Likewise with the snare. A little processing and you should have a nice sounding track.
thanks, clint. will post more as I go along..thanks for all the advice
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