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  #1  
Old 08-19-2007, 05:50 AM
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wnameth wnameth is offline
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Default Difference between....

Pearl eliminator double pedal in the belt and chain?
out of the current models, what is the biggest difference? should i go with the chain because i could then change the cams and get more variety?
basically my question is, what is the actual difference between the 2, are they very different? etc etc.

let me know.
I plan on buying one of them this week.

-Wes
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  #2  
Old 08-19-2007, 07:11 AM
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Default Re: Difference between....

anyone? i searched with no results on the difference between them.. and pearls info on their site didn't help very much.

thanks.

-Wes
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  #3  
Old 08-19-2007, 07:15 AM
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Default Re: Difference between....

I have the strap drive single. I no longer use it, and I can't compare it to the chain, but I know that difference with all strap drive pedals vs. chain is that they have more of a "floating feel to them. I really can't think of any other way to describe it. You're best to just try both and see which you like more.
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Old 08-19-2007, 07:17 AM
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Default Re: Difference between....

Quote:
Originally Posted by fourstringdrums View Post
I have the strap drive single. I no longer use it, and I can't compare it to the chain, but I know that difference with all strap drive pedals vs. chain is that they have more of a "floating feel to them. I really can't think of any other way to describe it. You're best to just try both and see which you like more.
okay. that helps.. i'll have to try them.. its just last time i was there they didn't have any on display, and to take 2 out of the box can be a pain for them, cause they have to make them display units thus loosing money.

thanks.

if anyone has both and can describe the difference that would be excellent.

-Wes
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  #5  
Old 08-20-2007, 04:50 PM
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Default Re: Difference between....

i'm going in on thursday, hopefully i can try both.. if they want me to walk out with one, they will let me try both!

-Wes
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Old 08-20-2007, 05:45 PM
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Default Re: Difference between....

the one thing you have to keep in mind. Chains dont stretch.
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Old 08-20-2007, 05:58 PM
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Default Re: Difference between....

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironcobra View Post
the one thing you have to keep in mind. Chains dont stretch.
Today's straps don't stretch as easily as older models. Especially the Tama Flexi-Glide, you could probably tow a car with it.
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Old 08-21-2007, 08:01 AM
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Default Re: Difference between....

so your saying that the straps wont last as long? i think i can get more variety with the chains, but if the straps are faster that might work.

-Wes
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Old 08-21-2007, 08:08 AM
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Default Re: Difference between....

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Originally Posted by wnameth View Post
so your saying that the straps wont last as long? i think i can get more variety with the chains, but if the straps are faster that might work.

-Wes
No, todays straps are very durable. The old strap models had material that would stretch over time. The pedals these days are designed to not stretch. I don't recommend them if you're a really heavy player who buries the beater, but if you rebound off the head and aren't very heavy footed you'll have nothing to worry about just the same.
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Old 08-21-2007, 10:19 AM
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Default Re: Difference between....

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironcobra View Post
the one thing you have to keep in mind. Chains dont stretch.
Chains 'do' stretch and they wear, becoming sloppy and loose. A chain is 'the most inefficient' way to transfer power on a bass drum pedal.
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Old 08-21-2007, 10:56 AM
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Default Re: Difference between....

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Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post
Chains 'do' stretch and they wear, becoming sloppy and loose. A chain is 'the most inefficient' way to transfer power on a bass drum pedal.
Thats very cynical Les, what proof do you have?

Im sure If you kept them well oiled they wouldnt be a problem.
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  #12  
Old 08-21-2007, 04:44 PM
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Default Re: Difference between....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post
Chains 'do' stretch and they wear, becoming sloppy and loose. A chain is 'the most inefficient' way to transfer power on a bass drum pedal.
so what pedals do you use?

-Wes
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  #13  
Old 08-21-2007, 10:01 PM
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Default Re: Difference between....

Quote:
Originally Posted by fijjibo View Post
Thats very cynical Les, what proof do you have?

Im sure If you kept them well oiled they wouldnt be a problem.
Chain's stretch is a known fact, nothing cynical about it. Drum manufactures didn't have a international conference to determine a chain was the best linkage for bass drum pedal's.

Early straps were made of leather or a weaved material like canvas and then nylon which would fail all to quickly. With the technology of they day, what were they going to use to solve the problem once an for all? A chain, It's earned its role and became what it is today on a bass pedal more less by default.

A metal strap/linkage is another animal. Chains can be counted on by pedal manufactures not to fail, even though a chains performance is not as efficient as other means. Drummers have come to accept chains just as a person who is feed a certain diet and acquires a taste for that food when they get older, even though said diet/food may not be the best performing fuel they could eat.

Manufactures have come to 'rely' on chains for durability, put a chain on, breakage problem solved, no ones ever broken a bass pedal chain. Chains evoke a sense of strength. Younger drummers don't even envision a time when bass pedal's didn't have chains, if DW for instance uses chain's, they must be good. It's conditioning, not nessesaraly the most efficent way.

Feel is subjective, the strap being 'first' would make the chain the one to be accepted since everyone was used to the feel of a strap. Most made the switch becuse of durability, which was more important at the time than feel. Kids growing up on chains were/are in the opposite position. You get used to something and don't want to change.

Heavy, sloppy and needing maintenance, the chain is either greasy and dirty, or stiff and rusty never being in a state of 'full potential' without constant attention. 'Stretching' is not limited to the vertical, links also wear side to side. If everyone's wearing blue jeans, good chance Johnny will be also. The strap has evolved from days of yore into a fail proof linkage, which IMO 'feels' and performs much better than any chain.

Same debate as the chain vs belt issue on the drive connector of a Harley Davidson motorcycle. Ones lighter, cleaner, better feeling and easier to maintain and more efficent, ones accepted as tradition/conditioning.
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Old 08-21-2007, 11:15 PM
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Default Re: Difference between....

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironcobra View Post
Chains dont stretch.
You never owned a chain saw or a motorcycle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fijjibo View Post
Im sure If you kept them well oiled they wouldnt be a problem.
Lubrication is good, but does not address the "stretching" issue. But a catastrophic failure on a chainsaw or motorcycle certainly puts more on one's plate than a drum pedal issue. Like so much "drum gearhead" stuff, the point is one of hairsplitting. Plenty of Camco pedals still out there in the real world, operating with the original factory chain and sproket (sprokets wear too). Has anyone ever even measured the degree of stretch/wear of drum pedal parts? Probably. Is the point moot? Probably. If you "like the feel" of a particular pedal, cool, buy it. If you don't like the feel, pass. Simple. I've played the Eliminator, both strap and chain. The drive system almost matters "not" with all the "other" adjustabilities. And I think you could even swap out one drive system for the other, to further make yourself "crazy by all the choices".
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  #15  
Old 08-22-2007, 04:38 PM
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Default Re: Difference between....

Do the metal straps stretch as much as the chain?

I think a problem that occurs with all pedals is that very fast playing often involves some degree of swiveling or side-to side motion. The Axis have no play from side to side but they do wear. Axis also used to anodize the aluminum and now they just spray a cheap clear coat on them. The difference in abrasion resistance and coefficient of friction between the two finishes is substantial. Don't be so impressed when they say they use "aircraft aluminum" because all aircraft aluminum is anodized, never simply clear coated over an untreated base. I've worn out Axis linkages and had to send them back for repair. Obviously they didn't stretch but they did wear and actually developed a moderate amount of play before they got fixed.
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  #16  
Old 08-22-2007, 07:21 PM
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Default Re: Difference between....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Almeyda View Post
Do the metal straps stretch as much as the chain?

I think a problem that occurs with all pedals is that very fast playing often involves some degree of swiveling or side-to side motion. The Axis have no play from side to side but they do wear. Axis also used to anodize the aluminum and now they just spray a cheap clear coat on them. The difference in abrasion resistance and coefficient of friction between the two finishes is substantial. Don't be so impressed when they say they use "aircraft aluminum" because all aircraft aluminum is anodized, never simply clear coated over an untreated base. I've worn out Axis linkages and had to send them back for repair. Obviously they didn't stretch but they did wear and actually developed a moderate amount of play before they got fixed.
Metal straps won't stretch, well at least in the words of 'harryconway' to a degree of being a moot point. If you were to put a stretched chain on a 'brand new' DW 5000 though, you would most definitely feel the difference and would then realize the chain stretching point is 'not' moot.

On an Axis linkage the only thing that could possibly wear is the bearings, which are easily replaceable, the aluminum isn't going to stretch. The main linkage on an Axis rides on ball bearings, unlike other brands that have a simple steel pin which will wear out its hole causing slop, you have to replace the whole piece when this happens.

There is no part on a Axis pedal that moves which does not have a ball bearing assembly to ride on. Aluminum never meats moving bare aluminum on an Axis, so the thing could be coated in sandpaper and it wouldn't influence friction. A coating of some type would actually help further keep bearing races from slipping (which doesn't happen anyway).
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  #17  
Old 08-23-2007, 12:17 AM
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SLEEPY BRiGHT EYEZ SLEEPY BRiGHT EYEZ is offline
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Default Re: Difference between....

Interesting discussion. I've been using a single chain DW5000 (single pedal) for many years. I don't have anything to compare it to as far as stretching, but I love the feel of that pedal. I do want to get a double pedal, and I want to try the Eliminators when the time comes. I don't bury the beater, or hit the kick very hard compared to others I have seen. Maybe I should give the straps a try.
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  #18  
Old 08-23-2007, 12:59 AM
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Default Re: Difference between....

I have to give Axis credit for using ball bearings. Their double pedal linkage blows everyone else's away because they use the universal joint with ball bearings instead of the block and pin design.

And they fit the Elim's as well!
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  #19  
Old 08-23-2007, 05:30 AM
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Default Re: Difference between....

Yes, Axis are a dream. Can you buy the drive separate and mod the Eliminators with it? If I had the money I'd get the Axis... but I could buy many more cymbals instead. heheh
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