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  #1  
Old 06-04-2007, 08:58 AM
a58chevy a58chevy is offline
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Default some double pedal frustrations (axis, dw9000)

For those that haven't read my issues on axis I'm going to start this thread with them.

Basically I ordered a pair of XL-2's (longbaords) from my local GC. The first practice I could honestly say the feel was strange but by the end of the practice I noticed that short bass runs were easier. Needless to say with a week I was seeing results! Then at my first show with them, the pedals came apart in the linkage and from there, every place that was linked together with allen screw seemed to come apart. I honestly loved the feel of the axis but the price discouraged me from buying another pair becuase I didn't want to mess with anymore broken parts.

On to the next part. I took my Axis back and the guys at GC traded me straight across for a pair of DW9000's. As expected there's been no mechanical failure. Playing with these pedals my bass drum speed increased at a rapid level and my stamina on the pedals was great. Definetly a pedal that you can just jump on and play. Over the near year I've had them and I've adjusted the hell out of them. Cam to the extremes and the middle, spring tension, beater height, angles and different styles of beaters. The problem I'm noticing now (especially at my last show where the guitar player pushed the tempo during one of our songs) is that it seems like the pedal isn't as responsive on higher speeds. Taking my right side pedal and messing with my hand down on it notice the chain is a bit slack at the point where the beater is hitting and then rebounding off the head. At the same time it feels like the resistance from the spring is fighting my legs at higher speeds (I've adusted the spring tension to max and completely loose and it still feels the same). I'm wondering if the slack in the chain is causing me to press the pedal down while the spring is rebounding? Maybe I'm insane or way too OCD about my pedal set up. I would like to know if anyone has experiecned this with the DW9000s.

All this has caused me to think maybe I don't have the pedal I'm looking for. I have been reconsidering axis and maybe opting for the AL-2's this time, but I would be really pissed if I have to wait and they break on me once again. I'm really open to anything at this point. I've also had Iron Cobras and an old Gibraltar single pedal when I first began playing drums. I'm not going to shoot a suggestion down becuase it isn't the most expensive pedal. I'm more interested in a few pedals at this point. Ultimately I'd like to try some Trick Bigfoots, but no one in WA state I know of stocks them (GC can order with a 30 day money back, but I'd need the $$$$ upfront). Also considering the Pearl Eliminators, The Yamaha Flying Dragon direct drives, maybe the Gibraltar Intruder Direct Drives.. also found some botique pedals in the MRP Lightspeeds (www.mrpdrums.com for more info). I also might consider the Iron Cobras becuase I've heard the revamp with the spring under the footboard is a nice touch.

My main style is extreme metal (death, thrash, grind). I would like the details as what brought you to the pedal you have know. Not just saying one better felt better to me than other. I would like to know why brand x felt better than brand a.

Apologies for the ******* novel of a post!!!! Thanks to everyone for past and futureopinions and info!

Last edited by a58chevy; 06-04-2007 at 03:46 PM. Reason: language
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  #2  
Old 06-04-2007, 03:28 PM
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Default Re: some double pedal frustrations (axis, dw9000)

hey dude nice to see another extreme drummer out there,before i answer your question let me warn you,lay of the swear words or you'll get booted off of here.i personally play the yamaha flying dragon direct and let me say the price is good they are silky smooth,built like tanks im a stomper and i havent been able to break it yet in 4 years worth of playing and gigging and its one of the few pedals that ive been able to tune so that the slave pedal feel exactly the same as the main pedal,responsive as all get out too,hope this helps dude.
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Old 06-04-2007, 04:06 PM
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Default Re: some double pedal frustrations (axis, dw9000)

Maybe after 1 year of use, your pedal tensioning springs need to be replaced. I mean DW fit their pedal with standard tensioning spring but the offer tighter one...

Maybe it could solve your problem and cheaper than replacing both pedals.

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Old 06-04-2007, 04:43 PM
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Default Re: some double pedal frustrations (axis, dw9000)

I'm an AL-2 user and even though I'm not into the extreme thrash anymore, my feet (size 13's) drop a lot of weight with each pedal stroke. I don't consistently run double-bass singles at 200+ anymore, but ruffs, drags, quads, and triples still are in the repetoir. I do stay in practice with my double-bass singles and have found the AL-2 more than adequate for my playing style.

I have always considered pedal changes a PITA (pain in the A$$) solely based on that you feet really do have to "re-learn" how to play whatever you chose as a new pedal. No matter what, your feet are going to go through some growing pains and playing through that time can be frustrating. I believe all we can do is stick with it and not adjust and tweak the crap out of the settings because you'll just be confusing what has become natural to the feelings in your feet.

I'm sorry your XL-2's seemingly desintigrated on you. I would have expected more from them being I haven't had one issue with my AL-2's. Sounds like the 9000's did well and aside from performing some basic maintenance (springs, lube, etc) you might consider staying with those. At least that would be my recommendation...

Andy

EDIT**** - Just thinking some more...by changing setting I mean "from what works best for you". If the pedal has changed because springs ae worn out...don't change pedals, fix it. I have been playing my AL-2 for a while now and for the most part, I've surpassed what I feel was "satisfactory and proficient" in using my old pedal. It's been a bit of work getting used to it, but I feel it's completely worth it.

Last edited by sticksnstonesrus; 06-04-2007 at 10:41 PM.
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  #5  
Old 06-05-2007, 05:00 AM
a58chevy a58chevy is offline
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Default Re: some double pedal frustrations (axis, dw9000)

Thanks fopr the input. I went to GC and basically pedal ordering is I'm stuck with it if i don't like it. I tried having the left pedal a little tighter on spring tension about full and the right side 3 turns less. They played real nice today I'm also thinking of going to a heavier slug beater like the stock dw's as i was messing a pair of dw9000's in the store. Also I think I'll try the higher tension spring.
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  #6  
Old 06-05-2007, 05:21 PM
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Default Re: some double pedal frustrations (axis, dw9000)

Quote:
Originally Posted by a58chevy View Post
Thanks fopr the input. I went to GC and basically pedal ordering is I'm stuck with it if i don't like it. I tried having the left pedal a little tighter on spring tension about full and the right side 3 turns less. They played real nice today I'm also thinking of going to a heavier slug beater like the stock dw's as i was messing a pair of dw9000's in the store. Also I think I'll try the higher tension spring.
Good ! Let us know :-)
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Old 06-23-2007, 02:40 PM
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Default Re: some double pedal frustrations (axis, dw9000)

Just be careful you dont overtension the springs and strip the spring hold down.

That would be soooo expensive to fix....
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  #8  
Old 06-27-2007, 08:03 AM
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Default Re: some double pedal frustrations (axis, dw9000)

,,, Then at my first show with them, the pedals came apart in the linkage and from there, every place that was linked together with allen screw seemed to come apart.

Axis pedals 'breaking'? "came apart" and "seemed to come apart" hardly describe breakage. LocTite is used on most Axis fasteners at the factory, if you piss with the factory torques loosening is possible. Snuging fasteners on any piece/brand of drum hardware ( at least every 4-6 months) should be standard maintenance.

Reading 58chevy's first rant about his Axis', he describes breaking 4 springs and stripping screw's along with the pedal board 'coming apart'. Sounds like someone may have mechanical aptitude issues. Stripping screws on an Axis would be neglect if you talking about the actual threads. It 'can' be easy to strip an allen 'head' with the incorrect wrench, if your not paying attention. Breaking spring steel is pretty difficult though, we'd love to see thos pics

Axis pedals are engineered waaay better than DW, If you take one of each to someone who really know metal like a machinist, the Axis will get the nod. Its built solid and makes sense, easy to maintain. Playability is a subjective issue. I've transported Axis pedals to hundreds of gig's without a case, just throwing them in a vehicle, treatment that would have quickly caused trouble with any other pedal.

Screw's have come loose on my Axis, they're very easy to tighten. Screws have also come loose on every other piece of gear I've ever used including DW gear, which BTW is very easy to yank threads out of, along with Tama, Pearl, Yamaha and a host of others that use cheap fasteners and weak threads.
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Old 06-27-2007, 05:52 PM
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Default Re: some double pedal frustrations (axis, dw9000)

I have to agree whole-heartedly. The only thing to get loose on mine were the two screws at the base of the right longboard. A little snug with the proper allen wrench and it's all good. I transport mine the same way, no case and smartly placed in the vehicle where something isn't going to smash it accidentally.
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Old 07-02-2007, 10:03 AM
a58chevy a58chevy is offline
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Default Re: some double pedal frustrations (axis, dw9000)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Ismore View Post
,,, Then at my first show with them, the pedals came apart in the linkage and from there, every place that was linked together with allen screw seemed to come apart.

Axis pedals 'breaking'? "came apart" and "seemed to come apart" hardly describe breakage. LocTite is used on most Axis fasteners at the factory, if you piss with the factory torques loosening is possible. Snuging fasteners on any piece/brand of drum hardware ( at least every 4-6 months) should be standard maintenance.

Reading 58chevy's first rant about his Axis', he describes breaking 4 springs and stripping screw's along with the pedal board 'coming apart'. Sounds like someone may have mechanical aptitude issues. Stripping screws on an Axis would be neglect if you talking about the actual threads. It 'can' be easy to strip an allen 'head' with the incorrect wrench, if your not paying attention. Breaking spring steel is pretty difficult though, we'd love to see thos pics

Axis pedals are engineered waaay better than DW, If you take one of each to someone who really know metal like a machinist, the Axis will get the nod. Its built solid and makes sense, easy to maintain. Playability is a subjective issue. I've transported Axis pedals to hundreds of gig's without a case, just throwing them in a vehicle, treatment that would have quickly caused trouble with any other pedal.

Screw's have come loose on my Axis, they're very easy to tighten. Screws have also come loose on every other piece of gear I've ever used including DW gear, which BTW is very easy to yank threads out of, along with Tama, Pearl, Yamaha and a host of others that use cheap fasteners and weak threads.

Actually I never broke any springs or had the footboard come loose. The allen screws on the slave side stripped out completely. My friends dad worked at a tractor dealership and he took it into their shop, got all new screws and tightened it up for me. loctite and all. It lasted about 3 practices before screws backed out and the threads were completely stripped. The only thing left was if I had to re-thread all the holes in the pedal and bump up the srew size. All I'm saying is for $500 dollars that's alot to pay for something you have to repair alot. I mean honestly if you're gigging and a drummer that works an average job you can't always afford back up, extra parts and hell it seems like the extra parts are always backordered for axis. The only other thing I never mentioned about my time with the axis pedals is I swapped in a pair of DW beaters becuase the axis beaters felt too light for me (at the time coming from a pair of old school Iron Cobra's). Maybe the heavy weight of the beater was too much and had something to do with it.

I want stress this is simply about the faults of my particular pair of pedals. I know there's always going to be a few lemons out there. Also the playability of these pedals was something else. I am honest when I say I saw some speed increase right in the first practice. they honestly seemed too fast for my legs at the time.

As far as the mechanical apptitude comment I'm also a hot rodder only second to drumming. Have plenty of experience with mechanics.

Les Ismore try reading what I actually wrote before putting words in my mouth huh?

Last edited by a58chevy; 07-02-2007 at 10:31 AM.
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  #11  
Old 07-02-2007, 10:11 AM
a58chevy a58chevy is offline
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Default Re: some double pedal frustrations (axis, dw9000)

On another subject:

I did actually get the DW9000's set up with high tension springs and actually forked over the money for the Slug Jazz Pro beaters ($45 ea.). They are light but they honestly retain the same full sound as the normal weight slug beaters. Definetly made longs runs of 16ths easier on the legs. They're expensive but they made me a lot happier with my current set up.

Even still I think I'm going to look for pedals with direct drive but the slugs will go in whatever I do end up getting for sure!
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Old 07-03-2007, 04:52 PM
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Default Re: some double pedal frustrations (axis, dw9000)

Just curious about your playing style. It has to be a qeustion based on that if you are having breakage (as much as you have stated)...obviously, there must a a reason. Even after replacing the original stuff with new setscrews and whatnot, you still had breakage. Are you heavy footed or just drop big on the footboards?

Andy
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  #13  
Old 07-03-2007, 09:50 PM
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Default Re: some double pedal frustrations (axis, dw9000)

Actually I never broke any springs or had the footboard come loose. The allen screws on the slave side stripped out completely. My friends dad worked at a tractor dealership and he took it into their shop, got all new screws and tightened it up for me. loctite and all. It lasted about 3 practices before screws backed out and the threads were completely stripped. The only thing left was if I had to re-thread all the holes in the pedal and bump up the srew size.

...sorry, I got you mixed up with hardhitter, the broken springs were on his Axis rant. We're still amased at how you can strip out threads. Which screws/threads on the Axis are you talking about that got stripped exactly?
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Old 07-05-2007, 12:02 AM
a58chevy a58chevy is offline
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Default Re: some double pedal frustrations (axis, dw9000)

on the slave it was on the linkage (the 3 that hold it together) 2 of those always backed out no matter hat I did, even more loc tite.The screws that stripped out were the ones that held the piece that kind of adjusts the beater angle on the shaft. The two that hold it on I put 2 sets of new screws in , 2nd set being a bit longer so I had more room to tighten them down. But then the ends of the second set of screws just got chewed up and loosened up without backing out.

I have a friend that drums in a crossover band and he uses the same model (XL-2's but a lefty pair) and he's never had a single problem with them. He adjusted them and just really tightened everything down hard. He's had them about a year I think.

Maybe there's some kind of quality control issue going on.

**EDIT**
To sticksnstonesrus 's question. I think of myself as being a really light player. I learned double bass on a pair of old school Iron Cobras but I was playing heel down on them, I started playing heel up just before switching to axis but I'm a guy that rarely breaks sticks (using 5A's), never broken a cymbal and very rarely rarely breaks drum heads, I don't see what I could have been doing to stomp the pedals too hard. I mean I had those iron Cobra's for 5 years, and I sold them to a friend that's had them for over a year with no problems what so ever.
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Old 07-05-2007, 07:36 AM
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Default Re: some double pedal frustrations (axis, dw9000)

on the slave it was on the linkage (the 3 that hold it together) 2 of those always backed out no matter hat I did, even more loc tite.

If you mean on the drive shaft (UDS), theres a tighenting order sequential across. They don't need to be cranked, they should be as even tension as possible in sequence: Snug the first twin guy, then the middle single guy, then the other twin etc. like you would tighten a head on a motor, or a 3 bolt thermostat cover on a motor, not one tight then other's tight and done. Cranking the single one tight before the 'twins' (or vise versa) will put the one, or the two off the center of the radius of the inner tube, not the best holding power.


The screws that stripped out were the ones that held the piece that kind of adjusts the beater angle on the shaft. The two that hold it on I put 2 sets of new screws in , 2nd set being a bit longer so I had more room to tighten them down. But then the ends of the second set of screws just got chewed up and loosened up without backing out.

The main shaft the beaters sit on (pic) have a flat side to them (Axis will tell you not to mess with these 2 screws for that reason). It's not a hex shaft , just at the end where the UDS (connecting shaft) connects. When you adjusted your beater angle, you most likely got the screws sittting on the round part of the shaft, no holding power. Your new drilled/tapped screws would have been ground just like you described for the same reason. You have about a half a millimeter each way before your off the flat spot, not much, but something. The Sonic Hammer Beater was designed to compensate for beater angle.

I do feel Axis should put a warning in with the pedals not to touch thos two screws...... and/or show in a pic that the shaft is round inside and has a small flat edge that the screws sit on. Its not a total 'hex shaft' like it seems.
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Old 07-05-2007, 04:46 PM
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Default Re: some double pedal frustrations (axis, dw9000)

Quote:
Originally Posted by a58chevy View Post
To sticksnstonesrus 's question. I think of myself as being a really light player. I learned double bass on a pair of old school Iron Cobras but I was playing heel down on them, I started playing heel up just before switching to axis but I'm a guy that rarely breaks sticks (using 5A's), never broken a cymbal and very rarely rarely breaks drum heads, I don't see what I could have been doing to stomp the pedals too hard. I mean I had those iron Cobra's for 5 years, and I sold them to a friend that's had them for over a year with no problems what so ever.
Hmm...I'm stumped (probably not as much as you). I am a hard hitter, with large, elephant-style, size 13 roach-stompers for feet. I wouldn't say that I try to play hard on my AL-2's, but inevitably, I think I do. I must agree that quality control inssues do slip through the Q-n-A process and it just sucks that you seemed to have received one.

Did you ever call Axis about them? Not that you could now, having "adjusted" them yourself.

Andy
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Old 07-05-2007, 11:15 PM
a58chevy a58chevy is offline
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Default Re: some double pedal frustrations (axis, dw9000)

I'm a size 13 as well man and 6'3" about 300lbs. Those pedals are long gone, they went back to axis as a return anyways.

The 9000's aren't really doing it for me so I know I'll end up getting another direct drive pedal... axis is at the bottom list of the top 3 pedals i might go for... i want to try out that PDP BOA double when they get in stores and I might end up ordering the Trick Bigfoot doubles with next year's tax return. If I do go axis again I'd spring for the AL-2's this time .
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Old 07-06-2007, 07:54 PM
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Default Re: some double pedal frustrations (axis, dw9000)

Well, I haven't had any issues with my AL-2's and I think the engineering for the A-series is just better, more well thought out and hopefully, without defect. I picked mine up at a GC for $400.

I spent a long time testing a Trick Pro-V1 double before bought the AL-2's...needless to say, I just couldn't get any response from it. I had it wound up and it still felt really sluggish. I don't think it would be bad for someone who plays laid back or likes a less-responsive pedal, but for me, it was WAY overpriced for Trick's claims and ad's.

I'm surprised that the 9000's are sufficient...most around here can't stop raving.

Without having played the other DD pedals lately, I wouldn't be able to tell you if it's going to top the AL-2. I wouldn't recommend anything for you anyways, gonna have to find it yourself.
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Old 07-09-2007, 09:59 AM
a58chevy a58chevy is offline
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Default Re: some double pedal frustrations (axis, dw9000)

As far as my 9000's go I don't really have too many complaints about them.... but sometimes I feel like my feet come off the pedal board during fast runs... I adjusted them in every way to one extreme to the other searching for the best feel... the setting I play currently with is as follows: Cam all the way to the accelerator setting (recommended for speed in the dw manual), foot boards at the lowest setting, beater angle at about 4" from kick head in neutral. springs are hardware store items that are a bit heavy duty and the tension is pretty much maxed out, also ran a bunch of beaters (stock dw, 2 models of slug, tama, random old felt ones) and settled on a pair of Slug Jazz pro's (2.65oz vs 3.73oz weight of stock DW beaters <-- actual scale weights because I wanted to know for sure)

I maybe am getting into bad technique for high speeds but the pedals don't seem to keep up..

The other pedals I've just recently considered are the Pearl Eliminators because the red cam looks a lot more extreme than the maxed out setting on the 9000 cam. That could really create the feel I think I'm looking for.
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Old 07-10-2007, 09:34 PM
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Default Re: some double pedal frustrations (axis, dw9000)

What's cool about the Axis pedals is you can play them at very high tension settings and still get a workable feel. The Trick pedal, being compression spring as an example goes to crap at the highest setting, which isn't even high enough for some.

I play non-standard springs on my Axis' Century Springs. 1/2 x 1 5/8 x 080 which are just utility extention springs stocked by my local Ace Hardware. The bag # is C-165 they're $3.89 for two in a little plastic bag. These springs can be cranked to over 15 lbs on the foot board.

The DW 9K has a heavy cam with a bulky heavy chain, at higher spring tensions (over 12lbs) that bulk is going to be even more apparent. You might want to try a counter weight high(er) on your beater shaft to balance the stroke. Its a catch 22, more weight equals less speed.
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Old 07-11-2007, 02:49 AM
a58chevy a58chevy is offline
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Default Re: some double pedal frustrations (axis, dw9000)

I've heard there's a higher tension spring set for the trick pedals available though them, but who knows how difficult it might be to perform a spring swap on those.
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