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  #281  
Old 01-30-2007, 06:58 PM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colauita

The word Groit [sp] is a term used to describe a type of musician in africa. They mimick sounds of their environment, and tell stories,,The whole topic of chops etc and the analogy of sport Vinnie used, resonated with me. I feel it must be frustrating for someone like him to be bombarded with chop based questions, when he is so inside the music, and feeling it from an artists point of view. That said, i am not a fan per se of him, only because i haven't been that exposed to him. These guys have the ability to pull time bending things off, with the help of a great band in full support.
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  #282  
Old 01-30-2007, 07:13 PM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colauita

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Originally Posted by fat in the middle View Post
The word Groit [sp] is a term used to describe a type of musician in africa. They mimick sounds of their environment, and tell stories,,The whole topic of chops etc and the analogy of sport Vinnie used, resonated with me. I feel it must be frustrating for someone like him to be bombarded with chop based questions, when he is so inside the music, and feeling it from an artists point of view. That said, i am not a fan per se of him, only because i haven't been that exposed to him. These guys have the ability to pull time bending things off, with the help of a great band in full support.
Perhaps it's more a matter of people forgeting their beginngs once they've become so advanced. I am sure as a youngster Vinnie would've spent a lot of time working on chops. Now of course he's moved beyond chops to a more conceptual level. Perhaps he would prefer more conceptual type questions. But it's hard for people who are not at that level to ask these questions. A person can really only ask a question based upon their own limitations.

Oh well, history has shown that gods rarely have patience when dealing with mere mortals. ;-)
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  #283  
Old 01-30-2007, 08:11 PM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colauita

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Originally Posted by fat in the middle View Post
The word Groit [sp] is a term used to describe a type of musician in africa. They mimick sounds of their environment, and tell stories,,The whole topic of chops etc and the analogy of sport Vinnie used, resonated with me. I feel it must be frustrating for someone like him to be bombarded with chop based questions, when he is so inside the music, and feeling it from an artists point of view. That said, i am not a fan per se of him, only because i haven't been that exposed to him. These guys have the ability to pull time bending things off, with the help of a great band in full support.
fyi - griot (gree-o)
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  #284  
Old 02-10-2007, 04:12 PM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colauita

I read the Vinnie interview in MD recently and I was really impressed by it. I know elsewhere it has caused some controversy within sections of the drumming community, but I thought it was right on the money; and it brought to mind the following quotation.

"Beware, all thieves and imitators of other people's labour and talents, laying your audacious hands upon our work"
Albrecht Duerer
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  #285  
Old 02-10-2007, 04:24 PM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colauita

Absolutely dead-on accurate. The people that are going to be offended are the ones he was talking about.
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  #286  
Old 02-10-2007, 05:46 PM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colauita

when vinnie speaks,you gotta listen. when the world's greatest drummers express their opinions,you don't have to agree, but we should listen(or read.) i think vinnie's interview was very hearfelt and passionate about the state of music today.
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  #287  
Old 02-12-2007, 04:38 PM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colauita

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Originally Posted by vadrum View Post
i wouldnt pay for a lesson w/ vinnie to ask about a lick. id take a lesson w/ vinnie to discuss approaches to practicing or playing, technique, or concepts of playing. further, if i were interested in one of vinnies licks, then i would at least attempt to pay the man for his knowledge. i wouldnt expect him to respond when hes never met me b4 and now suddenly im in his face at the club begging for a peek at his tricks.

see the real issue here is that we have students out there trying to find the secret to having a fast foot or playing like vinnie. or they think that the secret to being successful in music is playing all of the flash. but there are no secrets truthfully. its all laid out for you to play it out. you just need to be able to go out there and figure it out. to me thats the real purpose of a teacher. when youre my student, my goal is to get you to the point where you are able to figure things out for yourself. then you can shape your own sound and take music in your own direction.

to me, it sounds like vinnie is running across folks that he feels are focusing on the wrong thing and he meets folks that dont want to put the time in to figure things out for themselves. if you want to get a handle on one of his licks, skip the lesson and dont talk to him about it, go to the club and get a seat right next to the drums and stay there, watching, every night until the gig is over.
I have to agree....alot of what he said too about flash over substance in playing....made me think likewise. I think people need to realize theree are no short cuts to becoming a great player....but I would attribute this to the short attention spans of people sometimes also. You also need to relaize that it is not about ripping off someone's licks and using them...it is about working your own tail end off and discovering your OWN playing...just taking someone's licks always comes across as simply stealing or borrowing with no genuine artisrty behind it....just my opinion.
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  #288  
Old 02-13-2007, 03:14 AM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colauita

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Absolutely dead-on accurate. The people that are going to be offended are the ones he was talking about.
Well I hope you weren't refering to me, and someone else said that to regarding one of my comments. I though a few of his comments were "generalizations" and ya someone in his shoes would probably see it a lot more than I would having people come up to him constantly asking stupid questions about how did you get so fast, how did you do that, blah blah blah....

What I was trying to say for example, regarding what he said about drum clinics and how everyone just wants to see razzle-dazzle and flash. Well not me. I accually get bored watching drum solos, everyone always does the same ol' stuff. I would rather someone come and demonstrate a concept that you can take home, practice, and add to your "toolbox". And since Vinnie says that he thinks "very visceral and conceptual and wide" when it comes to his playing, I would love to have him elaborate on that in a clinic setting.

All his talk about "sensationalism" kinda struck me as strange. Was he saying that regarding just drummers? Hello, that would be more accurate if it was a statement regarding the state of the world we live in. Everything is sensationalized! Why does he sound so surprised? Being a world traveller such as it is that should be pretty obvious.

And as my final statement to this thread (cause the topic lately is getting old), Has anyone looked at Vinnie's artist page? All this talk of sensationalism and razzle-dazzle and flash, if you look at those clips thats all thats there! Or might there be another name for what he is talking about? Entertainment!!!
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  #289  
Old 02-13-2007, 03:10 PM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colauita

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Originally Posted by Gibbersticks View Post
And since Vinnie says that he thinks "very visceral and conceptual and wide" when it comes to his playing, I would love to have him elaborate on that in a clinic setting.
I would too, it just isn't what the majority wants today. I think Vinnie was stating his worry about the future of drumming; I just wish he had taken a more tactful approach. Instead, he came off as bitter. I hate that for him. I hate that for us. I hate that for the kids that worship him, and have no idea what they're hearing beyond the eleventy-billion beats per nanosec.


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Originally Posted by Gibbersticks View Post
All his talk about "sensationalism" kinda struck me as strange. Was he saying that regarding just drummers? Hello, that would be more accurate if it was a statement regarding the state of the world we live in. Everything is sensationalized! Why does he sound so surprised? Being a world traveller such as it is that should be pretty obvious.

I agree. WTTL.

SRJ
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  #290  
Old 02-13-2007, 05:19 PM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colauita

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Originally Posted by n2xlr8n View Post
I just wish he had taken a more tactful approach. Instead, he came off as bitter.
See I didn't think he sounded remotely bitter. What's HE got to be bitter about? It's not like he's losing work because everyone else sucks.

People seem so worried about causing offence these days, like it's this major crime that will scar people for life. What happened to telling it like it is? Mingus once hit someone in the face because they stuffed up a part!
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  #291  
Old 02-13-2007, 05:59 PM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colauita

1) His approach is that he looks at the big picture of a song and his playing fits how he sees that picture. I think he feels he's able to get into the mind of the other musician(s) and play exactly what they think they want to hear.

2) Vinnie didn't post those clips. It's possible that Vinnie wouldn't post any audio/video of himself. (Psst, look at his own page.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibbersticks View Post
And since Vinnie says that he thinks "very visceral and conceptual and wide" when it comes to his playing, I would love to have him elaborate on that in a clinic setting.

And as my final statement to this thread (cause the topic lately is getting old), Has anyone looked at Vinnie's artist page? All this talk of sensationalism and razzle-dazzle and flash, if you look at those clips thats all thats there! Or might there be another name for what he is talking about? Entertainment!!!
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  #292  
Old 02-13-2007, 06:38 PM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colauita

Quote:
Vinnie didn't post those clips. It's possible that Vinnie wouldn't post any audio/video of himself. (Psst, look at his own page.)
I have looked at his web page, but thats not what I meant. Vinnie's playing (from my perspective) is razzle-dazzle and flash even when he is laying back to play for the song. Am I saying that it is wrong? Hell no! He is at a level that quite frankly none of us can touch. So when he is laying back and "serving the song" he is still razzle-dazzle compared to what you, I, or anyone else would play. He may not see it that way, but from the eyes of mear mortals?
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  #293  
Old 02-13-2007, 07:35 PM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colauita

The style of music he is playing in those videos is such that it allows him to play that way.

Did you ever get a chance to see Vinnie play with Sting? Two entirely different approaches to playing the gig.
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  #294  
Old 02-13-2007, 09:39 PM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colauita

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Originally Posted by Womble View Post
See I didn't think he sounded remotely bitter. What's HE got to be bitter about? It's not like he's losing work because everyone else sucks.

LOL. Right!


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Originally Posted by Womble View Post
People seem so worried about causing offence these days, like it's this major crime that will scar people for life. What happened to telling it like it is? Mingus once hit someone in the face because they stuffed up a part!
To clarify: I understood his meaning, I'm just not sure his approach would be understood by the majority of young drummers today (at least those consumed with all things BPM).

I think had he explained his reasoning for not doing clinics in more lay terms, rather than the intellectual-esoteric, it would have been easily understood.

SRJ
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  #295  
Old 02-14-2007, 02:12 AM
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Originally Posted by n2xlr8n View Post
I'm just not sure his approach would be understood by the majority of young drummers today (at least those consumed with all things BPM).
I don't know what approach would get through to these young speed freaks. I doubt anything written in a magazine would manage. I think the best hope is for them to be reached early by a good teacher who can introduce them to true drumming/musical genius.
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  #296  
Old 02-17-2007, 10:20 AM
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Default Re: Vinnie COLAIUTA

I read the recent Vinnie article in Modern Drummer and loved it. He's being honest and really, the big picture is that he is a hired gun and only has to impress the people he's working for. Also, he's making a living at it and in my opinion, has nothing to prove.
Sometimes we fans put these pros on such a high platform that it's almost taboo if they slant left or right of popular opinion. That's kinda our fault in a way. Vinnie can play it simple are stretch it to the limit. That's not a fault, that's a gift. There will always be people that believe less is more or more is greater but if you can do it all, (and Vinnie can), no one should have a hang up with what he said in that article or how he plays on recordings or live. That issue of Modern Drummer has to be my favourite in a long while.
An interview with a bit of edge is far more enjoyable than the fluff MD has been printing lately. ;-)
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  #297  
Old 03-02-2007, 12:04 PM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

When I first saw Vinnie(Weckl, Gadd, Colaiuta soloing), I was not so impressed."Good drummer,nice technique" etc. THen I saw his videos on youtube, playing with Jeff Beck. I started to like him more and more. FInally I decided to download his Zappa albums like Joe's Garage and Shut Up Play Yer' Guitar. And he changed my thinking about drums...
I've never thought that someone could do something so diffrent, his drumming on albums is incredibly intresting. When I had listened those albums about 15 times, I started to analyze each and every song. Concluison, my new favourite drummer. Then I asked from my drum teacher(he is a very good drummer and super teacher!) "how is it possible to play something like that"? He said "his echniqual abilty allows him to play everything in every way." This has made me thinking music in diffrent way.

Thanks Vinnie, that you chose drumming!!!
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  #298  
Old 03-06-2007, 03:27 AM
wy yung wy yung is offline
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Default Re: Vinnie Colauita

Quote:
Originally Posted by n2xlr8n View Post
I just wish he had taken a more tactful approach. Instead, he came off as bitter.

I agree. WTTL.

SRJ
Hello SRJ.

I used to write for drum magazines. With this in mind I feel it important to mention the editing process. I doubt that what we read in any interview is word for word. I only realized later when editing an interview for the first time how easily it is for one's words to say something other than what was meant. The writer may not even be aware of how the editing may affect readers until after. I tend to take them with a grain of salt and certainly never personally.

My interpretation of much of what was said is that drumming is being denegrated to the level of sport by those running the 3 minute drumming mile. I wholly agree 100%. These people, in my own opinion, are doing an artform a great disservice. It gives us a bad name as non musicians. Something we have always had to battle against since the riverboat days.
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  #299  
Old 03-06-2007, 04:01 AM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colauita

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Originally Posted by wy yung View Post
Hello SRJ.

I used to write for drum magazines. With this in mind I feel it important to mention the editing process. I doubt that what we read in any interview is word for word. I only realized later when editing an interview for the first time how easily it is for one's words to say something other than what was meant. The writer may not even be aware of how the editing may affect readers until after. I tend to take them with a grain of salt and certainly never personally.
Exactly. I'm a drummer and also a Jazz critic, and I once did an interview with a Jazz piano player for an issue of PLAYBOY Magazine Japanese edition, featuring the guide of New York City for tourists. I had a lot of limitations regarding with the number of pages, theme of that issue's feature, etc. so I had to "edit" his words quite drastically. Actually I had to cut the most interesting and deepest part of his talk - it was his opinion about educating younger musicians - because it didn't have a direct link to the theme, i.e. the tourist guide.
I think in many cases what the media wants to publish or broadcast and what the interviewee wants to say is quite different.
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  #300  
Old 03-06-2007, 07:31 PM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

I'll have to admit when I first read the article I said to myself...."what a jerk!" Then I kept reading,...and tried to realize where he's coming from,...and I wound up enjoying it, and agreeing with most of what he said.

I do believe though that there were times that he didn't need to sound so 'harsh' I guess....but other than that, I can see where he's coming from.
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  #301  
Old 03-07-2007, 01:31 AM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

He's paid his dues. He owes nobody anything. He can be harsh if he chooses. Listen to the message, not how it's delivered.

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I do believe though that there were times that he didn't need to sound so 'harsh' I guess....but other than that, I can see where he's coming from.
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  #302  
Old 03-10-2007, 06:17 AM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

This guy is the one to watch,man! his phrasing is awesome!
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  #303  
Old 03-11-2007, 01:55 PM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

I can't believe there are SO MANY guys out here actually critiquing Vinnie's playing. If any one of 'em played quarter-way close to what he does, I'd listen in...and probably be devoted...but hey, whatever.
It's Palladium, all the way....
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  #304  
Old 03-13-2007, 02:38 AM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

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This guy is the one to watch,man! his phrasing is awesome!
yea Vinnie does have amazing phrasing
that's probably one of my favorite parts about his playing
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  #305  
Old 03-23-2007, 08:39 PM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

I uploaded this a couple of weeks ago, here it is before i forget again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCg6bQiE_RY

An absolutely exquisite cross-sticking groove from the man (@1.01), for me the epitome of musical voicing. I nearly wet myself the first time i saw this.

Last edited by jonescrusher; 03-23-2007 at 09:05 PM.
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  #306  
Old 03-24-2007, 02:43 AM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

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Originally Posted by jonescrusher View Post
I uploaded this a couple of weeks ago, here it is before i forget again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCg6bQiE_RY

An absolutely exquisite cross-sticking groove from the man (@1.01), for me the epitome of musical voicing. I nearly wet myself the first time i saw this.
Vinnie is God. It's as simple as that.
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  #307  
Old 03-25-2007, 07:25 PM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

Vinnie practcally has a patent on the word groove and plays in the pocket like no other.Sure there are more progressive and faster guys but for a gnasty lick...Vin can dish.
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  #308  
Old 03-26-2007, 01:59 PM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

Was listening to 'Now you see it now you don't' from Zappa's 'Tinseltown Rebellion' album - it's like he's taking Drumming into high art or something - incredible stuff.
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  #309  
Old 03-26-2007, 03:06 PM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

Mook, how did you get on with the Token of my Extreme part? I've been giving it a go as well since i got hold of the transcription - those 32nd note bits are nasty....
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  #310  
Old 03-26-2007, 06:42 PM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

I've had a go at the bits I was most interested in, however I've barely played this year & when I have - it's been in the context of a band. I'm not really one for playing songs the whole way through - I prefer to adapt beats/chops & play them in my own way - which is partly down to laziness. I did manage the 32nd notes (playing them on my knees & the floor) - they're not easy though - I'd put 'Token of my extreme' up there in my top 5 or 10 drum tracks of all time, amazing stuff!
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  #311  
Old 03-26-2007, 08:34 PM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

Well I just had been listening to Megadeth - The System Has Failed and I have to say that although I though a lot of the songs were kind of lame the drumming was unreal and beautiful all at once. So clean and precise with great feel.
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  #312  
Old 03-26-2007, 09:26 PM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

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Originally Posted by Mook View Post
I've had a go at the bits I was most interested in, however I've barely played this year & when I have - it's been in the context of a band. I'm not really one for playing songs the whole way through - I prefer to adapt beats/chops & play them in my own way - which is partly down to laziness. I did manage the 32nd notes (playing them on my knees & the floor) - they're not easy though - I'd put 'Token of my extreme' up there in my top 5 or 10 drum tracks of all time, amazing stuff!
I had to transcribe the thing. "Token" is crazy and smooth, at the same time. "Five, Five, FIVE!" on Shut Up and Play Yer Guitar, is some of the most brilliant 5 work ever. And I think the 19/16 grooves "Keep it Greasy" defied logic at times... in a good way.

Vinnie + Zappa = Musical Singularity.
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  #313  
Old 03-26-2007, 10:05 PM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

This thread is so much more enjoyable when people are discussing what they enjoy about Vinnie's playing rather than the 'Gadd own's Vinnie in that drum battle' or 'you suck ass if you think Vinnie is faster than Buddy Rich' type stuff. I love so many drummers & their work for so many reasons & think it's so much more important than to bring it down to that level...
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  #314  
Old 03-27-2007, 01:31 AM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

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Originally Posted by Mook View Post
I've had a go at the bits I was most interested in, however I've barely played this year & when I have - it's been in the context of a band. I'm not really one for playing songs the whole way through - I prefer to adapt beats/chops & play them in my own way - which is partly down to laziness. I did manage the 32nd notes (playing them on my knees & the floor) - they're not easy though - I'd put 'Token of my extreme' up there in my top 5 or 10 drum tracks of all time, amazing stuff!

Haha, a man after my heart. I've never had much concentration to play through transcriptions end to end, but Token has such great parts that i've made a commitment to see it through lol
Awesome track awesome Vinnie.

Nice to see Ian Ballard make a return too
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  #315  
Old 03-27-2007, 02:25 AM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

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Originally Posted by Ian Ballard View Post
I had to transcribe the thing. "Token" is crazy and smooth, at the same time. "Five, Five, FIVE!" on Shut Up and Play Yer Guitar, is some of the most brilliant 5 work ever. And I think the 19/16 grooves "Keep it Greasy" defied logic at times... in a good way.
"Keep it Greasy" is one of my top 10 favorite drum tracks of all time. Really unusual, and still sounds so natural and smooth...I was just blown away when I first heard it!
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  #316  
Old 03-28-2007, 05:57 AM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

yes! AND ALAN DAWSON'S LEGACY SHOULD BE KEPT ALIVE! RIGHT ON!
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  #317  
Old 03-28-2007, 12:56 PM
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

Vinnie's awesome.... I really like him when he's in a "soft groove" mood... The recordings on Kenny Pore's "Sessions Vol I" and "Sessions Vol 2" are fantastic (smooth/contemporary jazz).

I love his work on Gino Vanelli's "Nightwalker" and, of course, on Karizma's "Document". I think that some of Vinnie best works are found on David Garfield/Karizma's recordings. The things he played on those Creatchy Records albums - for instance for Brandon Fields, Steve Tavaglione and Larry Klimas - are really really good.

I personally never understood the comparison between Colaiuta and Gadd or Weckl. All three of them have different styles and they are all brilliant.
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  #318  
Old 03-30-2007, 10:03 PM
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Ian Ballard Ian Ballard is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Lawrence, Kansas
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

I noticed at the beginning of the thread, that "Nutha Jason" wrote that he didn't like Vinnie "as a person", to paraphrase.

I wonder what that's all about.
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Old 04-26-2007, 02:45 PM
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Ashbash Ashbash is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sydney, Australia
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Default Re: Vinnie Colaiuta

Must confess I didn't really like the way this guy played, thought he was a bit too choppy (not that I am anywhere near as good as him... anywhere...), but just this tuesday I heard him play with Herbie Hancock.

He's a freaking legend.

He was really tasteful, plays what works, and really well too. Seems like a modest bloke too. It was pretty cool how he wore his black singlet in front of a black background, you saw his arms flailing about like they weren't attached to anything :p

I had no idea he'd be there, luckily managed to get tix for Herbie on the day (!!) and doubly bonus, turns out he was playing!

On the downside, no more concerts till August... my parents have been forking out the dough.

So yeah. New found respect for Vinnie. Anybody else see him on the tour?
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Old 04-28-2007, 02:05 AM
karmadharma karmadharma is offline
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Default Re: Vinnie Colauita

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlehnertz View Post
YYou're also right in his playing. It's so frickin' subtle yet so amazing. Would I have ever thought of playing a 4/4 pattern in my right hand and a 5/4 or 7/4 pattern in my right? It's so unnatural but when he plays it, it's SO natural that you don't even notice it until someone points it out. And the groove is just so solid. I remember when I first figured it out and went "Duh, that's too easy." Then I sat down and tried to do it. Good God.
hahahahaha, I couldn't have put it better, the other day I was like 'hey, I've been listened to seven days so many times, why don't I ever trying playing it? it sounds like a pretty easy groove'... yeah, right...
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