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  #1  
Old 02-16-2007, 09:00 AM
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Default Vintage '65 Ludwigs

These were my dad's drums. I decided to take them out and restore them. It looks like it will be quite a project. All of the drums are missing the bottom rims, all the chrome is pitted,there's some rust, and the wrap is coming up at the seam... But, other than that all the shells are in pretty good shape and I have all the hardware (except the rims and bottom lugs).

Specs:

14x22 bass x2
16x16 floor x2
9x13 toms x2

black diamond pearl finish

5x14 supraphonic snare

Any suggestions on restoration would be greatly appreciated as well as any comments.
Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 02-16-2007, 09:29 AM
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Default Re: Vintage '65 Ludwigs

Sweet classic kit in the rough. Welcome to Drummerworld. Looks like 2 kits put together. Otherwise, normally your tom sizes would run 12, 13, 14, 16 or 13, 14, 16, 18. Finding extra hoops and lugs is as close as eBay. The shells are the killer deal. 3ply. Keeping the kit as factory stock as possible will maximize it's value. Don't drill any extra holes into the shells. Hardware can always be re-chromed or replaced, but some chrome cleaner and steel wool might be all it takes. If you find 1 kit to be in better shape than the other, you might want to put more effort into 1 and make it your museum piece and make the other kit your players kit.
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Old 02-16-2007, 01:59 PM
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Default Re: Vintage '65 Ludwigs

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Originally Posted by harryconway View Post
Sweet classic kit in the rough. Welcome to Drummerworld. Looks like 2 kits put together. Otherwise, normally your tom sizes would run 12, 13, 14, 16 or 13, 14, 16, 18. Finding extra hoops and lugs is as close as eBay. The shells are the killer deal. 3ply. Keeping the kit as factory stock as possible will maximize it's value. Don't drill any extra holes into the shells. Hardware can always be re-chromed or replaced, but some chrome cleaner and steel wool might be all it takes. If you find 1 kit to be in better shape than the other, you might want to put more effort into 1 and make it your museum piece and make the other kit your players kit.
True here! It's definately 2 kits put together. I don't think Ludwig offered a double bass kit in 1965. (I'm about 95% sure). Anyhow....Harry is right! You should'nt have many problems finding parts. DO NOT DRILL ANY EXTRA HOLES!!!!! Done properly,...you could be sitting on about 3-4 grand!!
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Old 02-16-2007, 02:40 PM
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Default Re: Vintage '65 Ludwigs

That looks like it would be a very succesful re-finishing poject because there is alot of hidden value. Good luck, and welcome to Drummerworld.
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  #5  
Old 02-16-2007, 05:30 PM
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Default Re: Vintage '65 Ludwigs

that finish is awesome!!

is actually textured or is it just a clever paint job?
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  #6  
Old 02-16-2007, 06:06 PM
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Default Re: Vintage '65 Ludwigs

I kind of figured that it was 2 kits put together, I thought it was a little weird to have the exact same sizes of all drums twice. Any suggestions on how to fix the wrap? It's coming up right at the seam on almost all the shells. And yes, I started looking on ebay as soon as I got everything taken apart. Thanks
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  #7  
Old 02-17-2007, 12:31 AM
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Default Re: Vintage '65 Ludwigs

Where is the wrap affixed to the shell? I wouldn't try replacing the wrap, but if all else fails then there's www.jamminsam.com to replace. Although I would advise you not to replace. Those bearing edges look in pretty good shape though, which is good. Seeing as they're the rounded edges, a little bit of very fine grit sandpaper around the edges, just to smooth them out a bit, will improve their condition. Then reseal them immediately. Getting hold of replacement lugs could be tricky, but it might be worth looking out for vintage Ludwig toms of a similar age (obviously in singles) on eBay and the like, as donor shells. Certainly don't throw those away though.

I'm impressed with the condition of the shells though, even if the rest of it needs a bit more work. Definitely a keeper and something you can certainly restore.
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Old 02-17-2007, 03:13 AM
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Default Re: Vintage '65 Ludwigs

Wow definitally sweet drums. Vintage and still look pretty darn nice. Good luck with the restoring.
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  #9  
Old 02-17-2007, 03:34 AM
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Default Re: Vintage '65 Ludwigs

I guess they were played without Reso heads?

Freekin cool kit man!
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Old 02-17-2007, 06:10 AM
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Default Re: Vintage '65 Ludwigs

I played a kit in high school that was the same year and finish and they sounded sweeeeet!!! I also had a speed king pedal around the same age. Loosen the tension screws all the way down to get a nice fast pedal.

I think that kit is very salvagable. If anything I would take the wrap off and go natural with a nice light finish.
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Old 02-17-2007, 11:52 AM
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Default Re: Vintage '65 Ludwigs

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Originally Posted by beavis12345us View Post
If anything I would take the wrap off and go natural with a nice light finish.
Underneath the wrap is almost assuridly mahogany. That, combined with the usual Ludwig hump, makes for a pretty homely drum and there's nothing light about the mahogany wood color.
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Old 02-17-2007, 06:16 PM
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Default Re: Vintage '65 Ludwigs

What a great project. I hope you will post pics when the restoration is done.
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  #13  
Old 02-17-2007, 06:23 PM
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Default Re: Vintage '65 Ludwigs

They were definetely played without the reso heads, he wanted the drums to be louder for bigger shows. (I'm just saying what he told me.) As far as taking the wrap off, I don't want to do that, I want to keep the drums as stock as possible. I just want to be able to keep the wrap from coming off any further or, if possible, make it go back flush to the shell. The edges are in good condition, there is only one drum that has anything at all wrong with it. One of the foor toms has a crack on the inside of one of the edges. Most of the work lies is getting all the hardware bak in good condition. I have one more question, would it be adviseable to repaint the insides of the shells white, since they are quite yellowed now. Or should I just leave them the way they are? Thanks!
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Old 02-17-2007, 07:19 PM
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Default Re: Vintage '65 Ludwigs

The glue my buddy uses all the time, and he does a lot of wrap and re-wrap projects, is 3M Fastbond contact adhesive. It's the glue these people recommend. http://www.precisiondrum.com/ Works every time. As far as shell ply seperation, shoot some wood glue in there and clamp it. Re-painting the inside will de-value the kit to a really A.R. buyer. And since most cats put coated, smooth white or fiberskyn heads on these drums, no one's gonna see the inside anyway.
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  #15  
Old 02-26-2007, 04:30 PM
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Default Re: Vintage '65 Ludwigs

Hey !! A kindred spirit ! I am currently restoring a 67 Ludwig Hollywood set. Id LOVE to have one of those bass drums you got there !!

Mine are gold sparkle, and the toms are all in good shape. The bass drum was wasted. Whatever I get, I will be recovering it I am sure.

Kind of a fun project......so far.

Ed
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Old 02-27-2007, 05:05 PM
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Default Re: Vintage '65 Ludwigs

Nice set ... it looks like the set is wrapped like a sushi roll...how does it sound?
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  #17  
Old 02-28-2007, 06:31 AM
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Default Re: Vintage '65 Ludwigs

Chicagoed, yeah so far it's been pretty fun to clean up. Y'know ya just can't wait to see how it turns out... The only problem is that I keep getting yelled at by my girlfriend for buying replacement parts off of ebay. (What are ya gonna do? right...)

Enjoibeing, I don't get it? Sushi roll??? But it used to sound really nice. Right now it's completely taken apart. I can't wait to put it back together and hear what it sounds like with new heads and everything.
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  #18  
Old 03-01-2007, 01:21 AM
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Default Re: Vintage '65 Ludwigs

Aaron,

I dont know how far you have gotten yet, but I was planning on buying a bunch of hardware. I was pleasantly surprised how well everything cleaned up. After sitting in my garage for 17 years...I only have to buy a few little things. Everything else cleaned up really well. Of course the bass drum needs to be replaced...but I found one on ebay for $65 including shipping. Lugs, tension rods, collets, hoops all cleaned up almost like new. I'm replacing one missing 16" hoop, and will have to recover the bass. Like you...I'm really excited about it....cant wait to see how good they look, and sound. They wont be brand new...but I know they will look good. And since yours belonged to your dad, how cool will it be to have them all fixed up !!! Good luck, and have fun.

The people here who have responded to my post, have helped me immensely. Its really great that people will extend themselves to people they have never met. Im sure you have experienced the same. I love this place. If I can share any new found info with you, I sure will.

Ed
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  #19  
Old 03-03-2007, 06:37 PM
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Default Re: Vintage '65 Ludwigs

Aaron, I would agree that you have not one, but two Kits there based on the fact that both Bass drums have Rail Consolette's. Ludwig commonly used virgin Bass drums on their early to mid- 60's double bass outfits. It was also common for Ludwig to use matching sized toms on their early double mounted tom outfits like the Blue Note & Hollywood but dropped this practice right around 1965, or therabouts...........

You probably have Superclassic's, which you will see below.
I've included the descriptions from Catalog No. 64 (1963) & No. 67 (1966) since this was the time frame Ludwig switched from nickle to chrome hardware. While it's hard to tell from your photo's, it almost looks like you have both nickle & chrome hardware but that may just be "crud" that gives them this appearance.......................



These next two images are from Catalog No. 64 (issued late '63)




The following image is from Catalog No.67 (issued late '66)
I cropped the descriptive portion from this one and left it out since it remained the same as above.
Note only chrome hardware listed, as opposed to a choice between nickle or chrome as shown above (No.980PC)...................


LVDC
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Old 03-03-2007, 07:09 PM
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Default Re: Vintage 60's Ludwig Double Bass follow-up

Since this was mentioned, as well as the fact that you have two Bass Drums, here's the Catalog information dealing with those Outfits from the same time-frame.............

The first images are from Catalog No.64 (issued late '63) showing their Blue Note Outfit, first listed as "New" in the No.62 Catalog (issued late '61).
Note choice of nickle or chrome hardware, virgin Bass Drums (no Tom Mounts) & matching 8 x 12 Toms.......................






Below is the Blue Note info from Catalog No.67 (issued late '66)
Note chrome hardware and the switch to a 8 x 12 & 9 x 13 mounted Tom set-up..............



Below you will see Ludwig's second entry in the Double Bass market, their "new" Rock Duo, as shown in Catalog No.67 (late'66)
Note 20-inch Bass Drums, which I found an interesting choice for a "Rock Outfit."






LVDC
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  #21  
Old 03-03-2007, 07:54 PM
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Default Re: Vintage '65 Ludwigs

Wonderful pictures - memories - memories!!!!!

Bernhard
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  #22  
Old 03-03-2007, 08:05 PM
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Default A word, or two, about cleaning

Aaron, with all due respect to Harry, please DO NOT use steel wool, but, if you must, use it only on the key-rod (tension rods) threads. I prefer Scotch Bite Pads for this purpose (key-rods) and only use Paper Towels on chrome or nickle surfaces, letting the Polish do the work. I clean vintage drums & outfits, that's all I do, and have seen many lugs & mounts that have been scratched by using steel wool to clean them....................

Below you will see the products I use, I'm not saying they are the best, but have a great deal of experience with them and have always ended up with great results.

I use Flitz Liquid Metal Polish, which is also designed for Plastic, Fiberglass & Painted surfaces. I have used it safely on all the above surfaces and it does wonders for removing "crud" from Vintage Wraps but will not remove deep-seated yellowing commonly found on White Marine Pearl........................



Here's a 1965 Downbeat Outfit (8 x 12, 14 x 14 & 14 x 20) that was filthy as all get out before cleaning.
I used Flitz on the wrap (as well as everything else) and was able to remove a lot of "greyish" crud which brought back the "sparkle."


Here's the matching Downbeat Snare (4 x 14 w/Pioneer Throw-off) after cleaning....................




Below is another example of what Flitz can do for you. Cup Washers before (left) & after.
Last year I did two Stainless Kits back to back, a Quadra-Plus (13, 14, 15, 16, 18 & 24) and Big Beat (13, 14, 16, 24) and every lug & mount used these Cup Washers. If you do the math you will find that I've had my fill of these little buggers considering that after Flitzing I applied two coats of the Maguires Cleaner Wax to each one, which is my norm on metal parts.....................


Below you will find a couple of other items in my cleaning "arsenal."
I started out using Dawn Dishwashing Liquid for my "pre-Flitz" wash, which works fine, but switched to the Wizard's since it's PH Balanced so is much safer to use, especially important when working on other's Drums & Outfits.
Note wire brush & Scotch Bite "Cube" in bottom of cup, both used on key-rod threads......................


Below you will see pictured two of the most important "tools" I use, not counting Paper Towels, Popsickle Sticks & Pipe Cleaners.................
Depending on what size crevice you have to get into you can fold the Pipe Cleaner back on itself either "Tight or Loose" making a wider or narrower V. They also work great as shown for getting wax residue out of cast in logos & such like you find on the Tom & Spur mounts and are perfect for getting "crud" out of swivel nuts.......................


I would like to add a little about Paper Towels, which is where the "rubber meets the road" when cleaning drums.
When I first got into this I used run of the mill paper towels but quickly found that even though the Scott Shop Paper Towels cost more up front, they lasted a lot longer so cost less in the long run. They also do a better job................
While this may sound confusing it's really straightforward. To get the most out of my Paper Towels I remove two sheets from the roll at a time, leaving the perforation intact, then fold them back on each other so it looks as if you have one sheet laying there. I then cut these two lengthwise down the middle and put those two sections on top of each other before cutting them across the middle (narrow-wise.) When you pull them apart at the perforations you will end up with quarters. I then fold these quarters into quarters, which gives me a small, easy to manage piece. When one surface gets dirty I flip it over to use the clean side and when that gets dirty I open it up & fold it back on itself so I can use the clean inside and when that gets dirty you can totally open it up and refold it with the dirty sides inside and repeat the process again. How much you can do this all depends on how dirty they get, which they do fast when working Nickle or Stainless Steel, or how effective you need them. They lose some of their cleaning power after getting totally soaked.................

Here's a shot showing my "on-deck" quarters......................


It may seem strange that I would go into so much detail about Paper Towels but this piece of equipment is the most important item you will use when cleaning and going "cheap" will not only give you less than stellar results, but cost more. I usually have to throw the Scott type away because it's dirty, whereas the cheap ones fall apart way before you even get to that stage. Another way to save even more is to make quarters out of the full size sheets that you used to wipe down the parts after Flitzing but this all depends on how dirty they get. Once again, Nickle & Stainless will get them dirty real quick, much the same as if you were cleaning a Cymbal......................

One last word and this deals with wax; Many are not safe for all surfaces so be sure to read the label. The Maguire's Cleaner Wax I use is safe for my purposes, including the wraps I use it on, but the other Maguire's products designed to be used as part of a three or four step process (the Cleaner wax is one of these steps) aren't.............................

Cleaning drums can be a very rewarding experience, so, take your time and enjoy the fact that when you are finished they should be good for many more years of "service."

LVDC
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Last edited by ludwigvondrumcrazy; 03-05-2007 at 06:56 AM.
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Old 03-03-2007, 08:07 PM
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Default Re: Vintage '65 Ludwigs

Wow, so many Ludwig kits here...they were so cheap!! But they sound huge. Man, yours is brilliant, needs a cleaning but other than that it is cool!

mhh, sometimes I wish I could get one...

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Originally Posted by ludwigvondrumcrazy View Post
My absolute favourite!! Set up is classical, never played on one yet...how does it feel??

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Old 03-03-2007, 09:26 PM
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Default Re: Vintage '65 Ludwigs

Karl, the Kit you see pictured in your above post is exactly the same, right down to the white marine pearl finish & cowbell, that I played from 1969 until I sold it in 1978 and I loved the heck out of it. The one thing that was different with my Kit back then was I had Zildjian, not the Paiste Cymbals shown. I'll say something here that many have also said about an old drum outfit, "I could kick myself in the butt for selling it."

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Old 03-03-2007, 10:12 PM
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Default Re: Vintage '65 Ludwigs

Quote:
Originally Posted by ludwigvondrumcrazy View Post
Aaron, I would agree that you have not one, but two Kits there based on the fact that both Bass drums have Rail Consolette's. Ludwig commonly used virgin Bass drums on their early to mid- 60's double bass outfits. It was also common for Ludwig to use matching sized toms on their early double mounted tom outfits like the Blue Note & Hollywood but dropped this practice right around 1965, or therabouts...........

You probably have Superclassic's, which you will see below.
I've included the descriptions from Catalog No. 64 (1963) & No. 67 (1966) since this was the time frame Ludwig switched from nickle to chrome hardware. While it's hard to tell from your photo's, it almost looks like you have both nickle & chrome hardware but that may just be "crud" that gives them this appearance.......................







LVDC
Is that the same type of kit Morello played on in the 60s?
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Old 03-04-2007, 02:27 AM
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Default Re: Vintage '65 Ludwigs

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Originally Posted by SmoothJazz View Post
Is that the same type of kit Morello played on in the 60s?
Yes, one of them, he played a number of different Ludwig Outfits over the years.
If you click on the DrummerWorld Joe Morello ( a true master in my humble opinion) video link you will see him behind a Ludwig Custom Outfit (main image when following the link) that came out around 1970. You can tell that particular Outfit by it's high tension (Mach) lug castings, not to be confused with Club Date lugs, as well as the Rail Consolette being mounted at the top center of the Bass.
The Custom Series were essentially "dressed up" SuperClassics's / Hollywood's.....................

Below is the Custom Mach 4, the same as a Superclassic, with the Mach 5 having both a 12 & 13 on a double tom post similar to a Hollywood Outfit.
Note Super-Sensitive Snare....................


Hope this helps..............

LVDC
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Old 03-04-2007, 04:35 AM
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Default Re: Vintage '65 Ludwigs

WOW!! Thanks for all the info LVDC.And Karl, thanks for the compliment. I really appreciate both. I've been using a metal polish called Maas and it does a pretty good job on the chrome. The flitz sounds like it would be great for the wrap though.I may try it on the chrome and compare to see which one works better. Where can you get it? I can't believe (well I can but...) that those drums were so cheap back then. I think my grandparents paid a whole $350 for all the drums I have now along with the hardware and a few cymbals. (I still have the cymbals too). Now just the shells go for thousands on eBay... Amazing. Anyway thanks again for the info. I'll post pics pretty soon of the progress.
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Old 03-04-2007, 04:58 AM
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Default Re: Vintage '65 Ludwigs

Here's where I get mine Aaron. It's the cheapest place I've found yet and they ship fast............

http://www.flitz-polish.com/default.asp

I prefer the Liquid Metal Polish since it's easier to work with than the paste which has a tendency to get "squished" into places that you don't want it to. The liquid readily soaks into a rag or paper towel, which makes it easier to "control."

When checking out you may be prompted to get some Micro-fibre polishing cloths, real cheap. My wife has her own cleaning business and it took me about four orders before I ended up with enough of these cloths for my own needs. They work excellent for final polishing!!!!

They also offer actual Flitz Polishing Cloths, and, while an excellent product, are not worth the extra money over their regular (cheap) Micro-fibre versions...............

A word about Flitz, sometime last year they changed the formulation somewhat so it's best to store the tightly closed container in a Zip-Loc when not in use. I exchanged a few emails over some thickening I experienced and they sent me free replacements. Now I make sure I don't leave the bottle open any longer than needed and quickly put it in it's Zip Loc at the end of the day. Nowadays I go through about a Quart every six weeks so this really shouldn't be an issue but I'm playing it safe........

LVDC
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Old 03-04-2007, 04:22 PM
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Default Re: Vintage '65 Ludwigs

Quote:
Originally Posted by ludwigvondrumcrazy View Post
Yes, one of them, he played a number of different Ludwig Outfits over the years.
If you click on the DrummerWorld Joe Morello ( a true master in my humble opinion) video link you will see him behind a Ludwig Custom Outfit (main image when following the link) that came out around 1970. You can tell that particular Outfit by it's high tension (Mach) lug castings, not to be confused with Club Date lugs, as well as the Rail Consolette being mounted at the top center of the Bass.
The Custom Series were essentially "dressed up" SuperClassics's / Hollywood's.....................

Below is the Custom Mach 4, the same as a Superclassic, with the Mach 5 having both a 12 & 13 on a double tom post similar to a Hollywood Outfit.
Note Super-Sensitive Snare....................


Hope this helps..............

LVDC
Wow thanks. But how about what he played in three old videos? Is it the same? Because that is the sound I am trying to get when I am able to buy a vintage Ludwig.
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Old 03-04-2007, 08:48 PM
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Default Re: Vintage '65 Ludwigs

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Originally Posted by SmoothJazz View Post
But how about what he played in three old videos? Is it the same? Because that is the sound I am trying to get when I am able to buy a vintage Ludwig.
Smoothjazz, yes the same Superclassic Shells.....................

Here's the information from Catalog No.'62 (1961) that remained the same throughout the 60's, actually, other than the inside finish, this stayed the same right up until they started manufacturing their 6-ply shells (Uni-mold construction right around 1976.)

Aaron, this information also pertains to your shells........................






LVDC
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Old 03-05-2007, 03:17 AM
Chicagoed Chicagoed is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 72
Default Re: Vintage '65 Ludwigs

Ludwig...

You know I am paying attention to this thread as well ! Those red sparkle's look great !
And I will try some of the Flitz on the shells once I get everything ready to go. As far as the steel wool....I used Super Fine 0000 on a few of the hoops, with good results and no scratching whatsoever. But have also been using the Scotchbrite as well. And a good tip on the Macguires cleaner wax. I bought it, but havent used it yet, as my final polish.

I have used a few different polishes on the metal. The NeverDull wadding seems to be the most effective. Surprisingly...everything with the exception of 5 bass drum lugs, has cleaned up well enough to lose, so I have saved some big money. Cant wait to see Aaron's kit and mine after all the work is done.

Oh...I found a website that sells Ludwig parts. They aint cheap, but pretty detailed.http://www.2112online.com/index.shtml

Ed
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