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  #1  
Old 04-01-2006, 07:30 PM
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Default Philly Joe Jones

I did a search and nothing showed up, much to my dismay....

Anyhow, I recently bought Cookin' and Relaxin' by The Miles Davis Quintet and was very impressed with his drumming. He plays whats just right for the song and I love his drumming on Airegin from Cookin'.

What are your thoughts on him?
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Old 04-01-2006, 07:41 PM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

I think it's safe to say there aren't a ton of Jazz guys on this forum, which explains the lack of Jazz drummer threads. . Maybe it's like someone said in another thread, we Jazz guys already know how great these guys are, why bother to post?=)
IMO, those 4 Miles albums on Prestige (Steamin'; and Workin' in addition to the 2 you mentioned) are some of Philly's best stuff.

I'd also add his stuff with Sonny Clark, Hank Mobley, Dexter Gordon, Coltrane (just one), Red Garland...well, most things he did in the 50's and 60's, really. Let's not forget his solo stuff like 'Philly's Big Beat' and the classic 'Blues for Dracula'.

Philly was a quintessential Hard Bop drummer and a musical master indeed. His brush book is a classic I learned from and still use it to teach even today. His musical phrasing along with his tight swing pattern always give him away...

G
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  #3  
Old 04-01-2006, 08:09 PM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

probably my favorite drummer. Get your hands on Milestones and also Blue Train.
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  #4  
Old 04-01-2006, 10:11 PM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

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Originally Posted by jazzgregg
we Jazz guys already know how great these guys are, why bother to post?=)

To help the rest of us find the good stuff. That's what drummerworld forum is all about, helping each other out.
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  #5  
Old 04-02-2006, 10:20 PM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

Philly Joe is a great great legend of a drummer. I love the four sessions Cookin, Relaxin, Workin and Steamin- Salt Peanuts off of Steamin' is THE lesson on uptempo hard bop drum soloing and time playing.
Other albums that I love are Sonny Rollins- Newk's Time, Miles Davis- Milestones and Hank Mobley- Workout. I think every drummer should transcribe some Philly Joe Jones and Max Roach soloing regardless of genre. Everyone has something to learn from either of these guys.
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  #6  
Old 04-02-2006, 10:28 PM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

Everybody Digs Bill Evans has some great Philly playing on it.
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  #7  
Old 04-03-2006, 03:19 AM
thedrumthing86 thedrumthing86 is offline
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

according to that video on drummerworld, philly joe played with monk? did not know that, any albums you guys know of with this monk+philly thing goin on?
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  #8  
Old 04-04-2006, 02:48 PM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

Here's a video of Philly Joe showing some of his classic riffs:

http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance...es/video/86167
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  #9  
Old 04-04-2006, 04:14 PM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

Great video! I've never been able to find any really good solo videos of him. THANKS!!!
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  #10  
Old 04-04-2006, 04:35 PM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

My teacher was a student of Philly Joe's -It's too bad he's not the online type, I'm sure he'd have a ton to add to this.

One thing he told me that some people don't realize is that philly joe was a really heavy rudimental player. He taught my teacher heavily from Wilcoxin's 150 rudimental solos book. They used to practice them on a padded bar-stool.

...but, yeah, one of the all time greats. The other thing I can think of right now that my teacher told me about him is that one of the big ideas behind his playing was that you have to play with conviction -that, above all, you have to "mean what you say." ...I think he even put out a later album as a leader called with that title or something.

Last edited by Auger; 01-15-2007 at 10:20 PM.
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  #11  
Old 04-04-2006, 05:07 PM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auger

One thing he told me that some people don't realize is that philly joe was a really heavy rudimental player.
Most people who know Philly's stuff know this, it's pretty obvious. Philly was the 'poster boy' for how you can make rudiments musical!

Very cool about your teacher studying with PJJ.

G
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  #12  
Old 04-08-2006, 06:18 AM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

Milestones was the first jazz cd that I listened to and Philly Joe Jones was the first jazz drummer I really listened to. His drumming on the track Billy Boy is sublime and served as a inspiration then and now.
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Old 04-08-2006, 06:46 PM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

Auger- a guy I used to study with, Garry Deboeck used to live with Philly in Vancouver for a couple months. I guess you could say he studied with Philly but Garry was already one of Canada's best jazz drummers at the time. Very much in an old-school mode but MAN could he play. Anyways, he said he tried to hang with Philly and learn as much as he could... Philly said "Just work through the Stone and the Wilcoxon, man. Those will get you by." Seeing as Garry already had great hands he was a little put off lol. Some of the stories that Garry recounted to me about Philly were ridiculous and hilarious. Stuff like instead of paying the hotel bill, he'd jump off of the second story balcony and other stories. The way Garry recounted these stories, he made it seem like Philly was quite the character. RIP Philly Joe Jones.
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  #14  
Old 04-10-2006, 04:08 AM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

the first philly album i heard was blue train-john coltrane. all i knew was that was they way i wanted to play. incredible drummer, incredible musician.
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  #15  
Old 04-16-2006, 07:27 PM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

.. I -do- love Mister'.Philly.' Joe Jones. I have collected all his records-Long--Playings +.cd's ..O N L Y..as bands-leader(at his mane). As Videos-'drummers'-collectionist I have found around others-collectors some live-concerts with 'Philly' Joe Jones.Very very ..impressive.. to see how he 'masters' the brushes and the way he 'rolls'-accents on snare-drums.. I also have his 'R A R E' -Brushes- method of -12-strokes-'diagrams'. I -do- love .Mister'.Philly.' Joe Jones...! ciao fab-'drums'-
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  #16  
Old 05-01-2006, 07:20 PM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

Quote:
Originally Posted by fabdrums
.. I -do- love Mister'.Philly.' Joe Jones. I have collected all his records-Long--Playings +.cd's ..O N L Y..as bands-leader(at his mane). As Videos-'drummers'-collectionist I have found around others-collectors some live-concerts with 'Philly' Joe Jones.Very very ..impressive.. to see how he 'masters' the brushes and the way he 'rolls'-accents on snare-drums.. I also have his 'R A R E' -Brushes- method of -12-strokes-'diagrams'. I -do- love .Mister'.Philly.' Joe Jones...! ciao fab-'drums'-
I also have his brush method book. Philly Joe is one of my favorites. I was collecting all of his albums for awhile (don't have them anymore), even the Count Dracula one where he does a dracula impression on the record.
I start with the Miles stuff, 'Milestones', 'Round Midnight. Then I got as many Blue Note records I could with him on it. His solo stuff, "Stop Look and Listen" and Tadd Dameron compositions album are amazing. The intros and solos he plays are great. He knows the arrangements so well and plays all kinds of melody stuff throughout. Kind of like Tony Williams, the intro solo sets up the tune, and you can hear the song in the solo and then the band comes in. A great lesson in musically drumming.
Sonny Clark's 'Cool Struttin' is a great one also with Philly Joe.
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  #17  
Old 01-15-2007, 10:18 PM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

...bit of random trivia for those who didn't already know: I learned that he was also an expert taylor and made most of his own clothes. I found that interesting and impressive considering how well they used to dress back in the day.
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  #18  
Old 01-15-2007, 11:09 PM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

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Originally Posted by fly View Post
Everybody Digs Bill Evans has some great Philly playing on it.
Yeah man, I was listening to this again last night. The man swung hard. Great, ballsy brush playing on Oleo.
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  #19  
Old 01-17-2007, 02:18 AM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

While I'm not the biggest straight up "jazz" fan in the world, I really do like what I'm hearing from Philly Joe Jones. Man can swing, and came up with some really interesting riffs. When you take into account the time he was doing it in, it's pretty damn amazing. Amazing brush work also. I know Donati came to LA to study with him at a young age.
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  #20  
Old 01-17-2007, 02:21 AM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

I was just thinking, "What on earth's toteman doing posting in a Philly Joe thread?", but I see you still managed to work Donati in there. Good effort :)
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  #21  
Old 01-17-2007, 02:55 AM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzgregg View Post
Most people who know Philly's stuff know this, it's pretty obvious. Philly was the 'poster boy' for how you can make rudiments musical!

Very cool about your teacher studying with PJJ.

G


That's very true, you can hear it in his solo ideas. When I took a lesson with Steve Rucker from UM we talked about trading 2s, 4s and phrases like this, the first person he mentioned was Joe Jones and his ideas from Milestones. When I bought this album I was sold that his playing was extreamly innovative for his time in playing. His playing has inpsired me greatly when it comes to soloing and just grooving with a group. I enjoy his playing. his touch and especially his incredible abilities with brushes. I too am suprised that this thread was not made long ago.
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  #22  
Old 01-17-2007, 03:11 AM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

If you guys are interested getting PJJ brush artistry booklet in PDF just PM your email address and it will be a pleasure for me to sent it to you (about 2 Mb pdf files).
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  #23  
Old 01-17-2007, 06:15 AM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

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Originally Posted by Womble View Post
I was just thinking, "What on earth's toteman doing posting in a Philly Joe thread?", but I see you still managed to work Donati in there. Good effort :)
I would honestly like to know just what that is suppose to mean....

Am I restricted from enjoying jazz, and Philly Joe Jones? I just don't understand...What's the problem with mentioning in a "Philly Joe Jones thread" that he happend to teach Virgil Donati when he was 19 years old...Is that a problem? I thought it would be helpful to the thread by bringging more infromation about him.
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  #24  
Old 01-17-2007, 06:17 AM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

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Originally Posted by toteman2 View Post
I would honestly like to know, just what that is suppose to mean....

Am I restricted from enjoying jazz, and Philly Joe Jones? I just don't understand...What's the problem with mentioning in a "Philly Joe Jones thread" that he happend to teach Virgil Donati when he was 19 years old...Is that a problem? I thought it would be helpful to the thread by bringging more infromation about him.
PJJ taught Donati? Looks like Donati wasn't listening.

G
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  #25  
Old 01-17-2007, 06:19 AM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

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Originally Posted by jazzgregg View Post
PJJ taught Donati? Looks like Donati wasn't listening.

G
I think PJJ would tell you otherwise. And let's focus the thread on Philly Joe, instead of Virgil.
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  #26  
Old 01-17-2007, 06:27 AM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

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Originally Posted by toteman2 View Post
I think PJJ would tell you otherwise. And let's focus the thread on Philly Joe, instead of Virgil.
You brought him up, surely you didn't expect that to go unoticed? If you're talking to PJJ, ask him, as you seem to know better than I. Also, I agree, let's keep it about PJJ, what else have you got?

G
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  #27  
Old 01-17-2007, 12:45 PM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

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Originally Posted by toteman2 View Post
I would honestly like to know just what that is suppose to mean....Am I restricted from enjoying jazz, and Philly Joe Jones?
Of course not! It's just that I mostly see you talking about guys like Donati and Weckl, so I was surprised when I saw you in this thread. I was then less surprised when I saw you mention Donati. It wasn't meant to be an insult man.

Gregg shares my other thought though: I can't imagine what on earth PJJ taught Donati.
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  #28  
Old 01-17-2007, 06:05 PM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

I always loved Philly. Especially what he recorded with Hank Mobley. As far as I am concerned those recordings are required listening for any serious drummer. I feel it is some of the most definitive hard bop playing on record.
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Old 01-27-2007, 02:29 PM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

*bump*
I feel I should jump in here as I know/heard something about this.

My teacher in Aus (Graham Morgan, bit of a legend in Aus and the teacher to go to for learning jazz) taught Donati when he was very young and also happened to do some study with philly. They were good friends, and I believe it was Graham that gave the idea to Donati to study with 'philly' as that is Grahams favourite player and someone that he has studied and teaches about extensively.

As for Donati not learning anything, I believe that PJJ actually recommended to Bill Evans that Donati take over from himself when he stopped playing with Evans. Interesting huh? I couldn't believe it. But, Graham has also said that he was a fine jazz player and alot of his early gigging work in melbourne was jazz stuff before he moved into rock/fusion/prog stuff. Though you certainly can't hear the influence.

I don't know...who knows? It is interesting to hear these things. I can't really stand Donati's music to be honest. I guess because of his 'talent' for the more complicated stuff he is now pigeon holed as being a one trick pony so to speak. But, it's odd hearing of his early career and then to see something so completely different.

Now before anyone hassles me, don't kill the messenger. I'm neither for or against Donati. To be honest I don't really care about peoples like or dislike of him either. I just thought I'd pass something on that I'd heard for the sake of anyone interested.

Anywho, back on topic. I've always been astounded at the way PJJ put together his phrases. Graham has transcribed...everything and each time we go over something I'm amazed anew at his rudimental inventiveness. Jazzgregg is right though, I thought it was widely known that PJJ was big on the rudiments and wilcoxin etc.
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Old 01-27-2007, 03:03 PM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

I can state categorically that YES, Donati spent a lot of time playing jazz gigs. I know, I witnessed many of them.
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Old 01-28-2007, 10:52 PM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

What's the name of Philly's brush method book? I never knew he even had one, and I'm interested to give it a look.
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Old 01-29-2007, 01:18 AM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

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What's the name of Philly's brush method book?
It's called the Brush Artistry book. You should definetely look into it.
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Old 01-29-2007, 01:27 AM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

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Originally Posted by foursticks View Post
What's the name of Philly's brush method book? I never knew he even had one, and I'm interested to give it a look.
i have that book too, its a nice intro to various brush patterns. if you missed it, i believe there is a post on here where the person said he'd be willing to make a copy for anyone interested.
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Old 01-29-2007, 05:38 AM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

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Originally Posted by vadrum View Post
i have that book too, its a nice intro to various brush patterns. if you missed it, i believe there is a post on here where the person said he'd be willing to make a copy for anyone interested.
Really?? Could you please show me! :)
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Old 01-29-2007, 04:30 PM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

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i have that book too, its a nice intro to various brush patterns. if you missed it, i believe there is a post on here where the person said he'd be willing to make a copy for anyone interested.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearlrules View Post
Really?? Could you please show me! :)
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Originally Posted by mind_drummer View Post
If you guys are interested getting PJJ brush artistry booklet in PDF just PM your email address and it will be a pleasure for me to sent it to you (about 2 Mb pdf files).
Guys take the good habit to read every post in threads...
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  #36  
Old 09-20-2007, 06:06 PM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

I came on here looking for album suggestions, because I just picked up Hank Mobley's WORKOUT...and wow....Philly is so smooth....wow! So...now that I have a few more albums to listen too....it's off to the record store!

Hey...out of the Miles CDs ....the Workin' etc...series....which one is anyones favorite? Steamin, Workin, Cookin', Relaxin' ??


Thanks all.........

Last edited by fusssion; 09-20-2007 at 06:33 PM.
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  #37  
Old 09-21-2007, 05:32 PM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

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Originally Posted by fusssion View Post
I came on here looking for album suggestions, because I just picked up Hank Mobley's WORKOUT...and wow....Philly is so smooth....wow! So...now that I have a few more albums to listen too....it's off to the record store!

Hey...out of the Miles CDs ....the Workin' etc...series....which one is anyones favorite? Steamin, Workin, Cookin', Relaxin' ??


Thanks all.........
Those are all excellent sessions - why not pick them all up (used on Amazon is next to nothing)?

I like Working the best, personally. Red Garland and Philly trade some stuff that is just so hooked up it gives me chills to listen to it.
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  #38  
Old 10-24-2007, 06:07 AM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

One album I really dig is Dexter Gordon: Dexter Calling. I just picked up the Blues for Dracula album the other day and I really dig it. Besides the monologue, there is some really great playing on there. The solos on "Ow" are really tastey, probably the best use of space I have heard from Philly Joe. I also really like his drumming on "Gone, Gone, Gone" from the Miles Davis Porgy and Bess album. He was definitely a character...in addition to being a beast of a drummer.
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  #39  
Old 01-10-2008, 09:37 PM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

I'm reminded of an amusing story about Philly Joe Jones and Keith Moon of all people. Apparently Philly lived, or at least taught in London during the '60s. Moonie came to Philly for lessons. Philly asked Moon to sit down on the drums and play. Moon did his thing for a few minutes and Philly just looked at him and said (paraphrasing) "If you can make money doing that, there's nothing I can teach you."
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Old 01-10-2008, 09:50 PM
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Default Re: Philly Joe Jones

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I'm reminded of an amusing story about Philly Joe Jones and Keith Moon of all people. Apparently Philly lived, or at least taught in London during the '60s. Moonie came to Philly for lessons. Philly asked Moon to sit down on the drums and play. Moon did his thing for a few minutes and Philly just looked at him and said (paraphrasing) "If you can make money doing that, there's nothing I can teach you."
Hahaha - that's great. Seems like Philly was quite the character as well as the player.
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