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  #1  
Old 03-06-2018, 07:35 PM
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Default 18" crash has same pitch as 17" of the same model

Is this common? I bought an 18" HHX Explosion crash online thinking it would be a lower pitched version of my 17", but the pitch between the two is more or less the same. The 18" has more spread & slightly different characteristics, but underneath the rest of the drums, the cymbals sound pretty much identical. Perhaps it's heavier & thus brighter than other 18" models?

Should I look for the 19" model now instead? -.-
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Old 03-06-2018, 08:18 PM
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Default Re: 18" crash has same pitch as 17" of the same model

Keep the 18 and get rid of the 17. Go for a 20!
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  #3  
Old 03-06-2018, 08:26 PM
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Default Re: 18" crash has same pitch as 17" of the same model

Pitch is determined by the speed of vibration, which is impacted by many factors. Most likely, either your 17" is on the thin side or your 18" is on the thick side, or a little of both.

Sorry about your luck. Hopefully you can return one. My advice, as always: "Try before you buy."
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Old 03-06-2018, 10:07 PM
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Default Re: 18" crash has same pitch as 17" of the same model

Quote:
Originally Posted by SalTheSanitationBear View Post

Should I look for the 19" model now instead? -.-
Nope. Save the cash.
For $40 you can send your 18 Explosion to Sabian and have it thinned out, they ship it back. I did this with an 18 HH crash, also some HHX hats, and it worked wonders.
Check out their 'cymbal refresh' program.
Thinning your 18 out will give it lower pitch.
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Old 03-07-2018, 12:30 AM
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Default Re: 18" crash has same pitch as 17" of the same model

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Originally Posted by opentune View Post
Nope. Save the cash.
For $40 you can send your 18 Explosion to Sabian and have it thinned out, they ship it back. I did this with an 18 HH crash, also some HHX hats, and it worked wonders.
Check out their 'cymbal refresh' program.
Thinning your 18 out will give it lower pitch.
Wow, I didn't know about this. I sent Sabian an email with the dilemma & I'll see if they can do that, as this is much more appealing to me than the continued headache of buying/selling/trading cymbals.

Thanks for the responses.
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  #6  
Old 03-07-2018, 12:38 AM
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Default Re: 18" crash has same pitch as 17" of the same model

Quote:
Originally Posted by opentune View Post
Nope. Save the cash.
For $40 you can send your 18 Explosion to Sabian and have it thinned out, they ship it back. I did this with an 18 HH crash, also some HHX hats, and it worked wonders.
Check out their 'cymbal refresh' program.
Thinning your 18 out will give it lower pitch.
That's interesting. I've looked at their refresh program before, and it looked as though services outside of cleaning them up, re-inking, and maybe applying brilliant finish were extra. I didn't email and enquire though. I'm curious to see what the OPs response from them is.
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Old 03-07-2018, 06:09 PM
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Default Re: 18" crash has same pitch as 17" of the same model

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Originally Posted by IDDrummer View Post
That's interesting. I've looked at their refresh program before, and it looked as though services outside of cleaning them up, re-inking, and maybe applying brilliant finish were extra. I didn't email and enquire though. I'm curious to see what the OPs response from them is.
I've had good luck w/ Sabian doing things other than a simple cleaning and re-stamping of logos:

1) I have a 17" AA Fast Crash that had developed a fracture just about an 1/8 of an inch on the edge. Sabian cut the cymbal down, cleaned it up, and sent it back. It looks like a brand new 17" cymbal -I measured it and it's just under 16.75". So to me, it's still a 17" (which is what the ink stamp says).

2) I picked up a used 21" AA RBDR w/ natural finish and dirty as all hell including the white stick tip marks you usually see on a beginner's cymbal set. I sent it to them and asked them to clean it up and send it back w/ the brilliant finish. Again, when I got the cymbal back, it looked brand new.

I'm going to send them a set of 15" hats I have to be refreshed and add rivets to the bottom hat and jingles to the top hat. (I have a 2nd set of 15" that I'll be able to mix & match w/ these).
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Old 03-07-2018, 06:16 PM
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Default Re: 18" crash has same pitch as 17" of the same model

That is interesting..!

Does Meinl do that? Or...I don't suppose Sabian would do that for a Meinl cymbal?
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  #9  
Old 03-07-2018, 06:35 PM
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Default Re: 18" crash has same pitch as 17" of the same model

Quote:
Originally Posted by SalTheSanitationBear View Post
Wow, I didn't know about this. I sent Sabian an email with the dilemma & I'll see if they can do that, as this is much more appealing to me than the continued headache of buying/selling/trading cymbals.

Thanks for the responses.

You should be able to reach Sabian by phone most of the time during regular hours. I've spoken several times to Kevin in Customer Service who is quite knowledgeable/helpful re all their cymbal types and their services.
A few years ago, I had an AAXplosion 18 crash thinned out for the $40 fee, which made it more usable for the music/style I play.
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  #10  
Old 03-07-2018, 06:58 PM
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Default Re: 18" crash has same pitch as 17" of the same model

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee-Bro View Post
I've had good luck w/ Sabian doing things other than a simple cleaning and re-stamping of logos:

1) I have a 17" AA Fast Crash that had developed a fracture just about an 1/8 of an inch on the edge. Sabian cut the cymbal down, cleaned it up, and sent it back. It looks like a brand new 17" cymbal -I measured it and it's just under 16.75". So to me, it's still a 17" (which is what the ink stamp says).

2) I picked up a used 21" AA RBDR w/ natural finish and dirty as all hell including the white stick tip marks you usually see on a beginner's cymbal set. I sent it to them and asked them to clean it up and send it back w/ the brilliant finish. Again, when I got the cymbal back, it looked brand new.

I'm going to send them a set of 15" hats I have to be refreshed and add rivets to the bottom hat and jingles to the top hat. (I have a 2nd set of 15" that I'll be able to mix & match w/ these).
Yes, cleaning up edge cracks and putting on the brilliant finish are services they explicitly specify as covered by the $40 refresh. It's the lathing to thin down a cymbal I'm curious about.
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  #11  
Old 03-07-2018, 08:30 PM
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Default Re: 18" crash has same pitch as 17" of the same model

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDDrummer View Post
That's interesting. I've looked at their refresh program before, and it looked as though services outside of cleaning them up, re-inking, and maybe applying brilliant finish were extra. I didn't email and enquire though. I'm curious to see what the OPs response from them is.
This from an email in 2015:

"We can certainly lighten the cymbal for you. The fee would be $40 to do the work and you would have to pay the inbound shipping charges only. We will take care of shipping the cymbal back to you when it is finished. If this sounds good I will need your shipping address for the paperwork. Just let me know!
Cheers Kevin Customer Service
Sabian LTD www.sabian.com"

I had them take an 18 crash from 1550 g to 1400 g, and a HHX hat from 1400 g to 1000 g.
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  #12  
Old 03-07-2018, 08:44 PM
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Default Re: 18" crash has same pitch as 17" of the same model

Wow, I hadn't heard how directly easy it was to deal with Sabian's refresh program. That's really special. Thinning down the 18" sounds like a great idea, I always found the X-Plosions too heavy anyways.

I would doubt they would do a Meinl though, if you asked.
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  #13  
Old 03-07-2018, 09:38 PM
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Default Re: 18" crash has same pitch as 17" of the same model

In my case the thinning process was quoted at $80:
Quote:
The $40 fee is per operation. In this case there are 2 involved. First we would lathe the cymbal to lighten it, and then reapply the brilliant finish. This is why the total would be $80 for the entire job.
I'm still gonna go ahead with it because I got the cymbal at a used price & have some spare cash from selling another one, so I think it's worth investing in it than chancing on a whole other cymbal.

For those of you who've used the cymbal refresh program, what's the waiting period like?
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  #14  
Old 03-07-2018, 10:20 PM
ZildjianLover ZildjianLover is offline
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Default Re: 18" crash has same pitch as 17" of the same model

I don't have any experience with using Sabian's cymbal refresh program, but I do know what it is like to have two cymbals at the same pitch. My two favorite crash-rides are a 1960s, 2350-gram 22" A ride, and a 2438-gram 21" A Sweet Ride, and they are less than a semitone apart in pitch. I can detect the slight difference in pitch when I play on one and then on the other, but when I crash on them simultaneously, they sound as if they are playing the same note. Luckily, the 22" has a timbre that is much darker and less focused than the Sweet Ride, and the bells sound completely different, so I can still have them both on my kit at the same time without any redundancy.

Pardon me for rambling. Yes, I encourage you to investigate the cymbal refresh program, and I wish you the best of luck.
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  #15  
Old 03-08-2018, 12:16 AM
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Default Re: 18" crash has same pitch as 17" of the same model

Quote:
Originally Posted by SalTheSanitationBear View Post
In my case the thinning process was quoted at $80:


I'm still gonna go ahead with it because I got the cymbal at a used price & have some spare cash from selling another one, so I think it's worth investing in it than chancing on a whole other cymbal.

For those of you who've used the cymbal refresh program, what's the waiting period like?
They quoted me that 2-4 works was a normal time frame, I think I got it back from them in the 2 week range. Add on shipping time to the send/receive parts.
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  #16  
Old 03-08-2018, 12:17 AM
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Default Re: 18" crash has same pitch as 17" of the same model

Quote:
Originally Posted by SalTheSanitationBear View Post
In my case the thinning process was quoted at $80:


I'm still gonna go ahead with it because I got the cymbal at a used price & have some spare cash from selling another one, so I think it's worth investing in it than chancing on a whole other cymbal.

For those of you who've used the cymbal refresh program, what's the waiting period like?
thanks for sharing this. That's exactly what I was wondering about, since I've considered having one of my rides thinned a bit.
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  #17  
Old 03-08-2018, 01:30 AM
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Default Re: 18" crash has same pitch as 17" of the same model

Quote:
Originally Posted by SalTheSanitationBear View Post
In my case the thinning process was quoted at $80:


I'm still gonna go ahead with it because I got the cymbal at a used price & have some spare cash from selling another one, so I think it's worth investing in it than chancing on a whole other cymbal.

For those of you who've used the cymbal refresh program, what's the waiting period like?
Yep, I didn't have any finish applied to mine, so was $40 per cymbal or 'operation'. Still a great deal.
Mine took less than 4 weeks.
Now, the tricky part....... you have to guess how much you want removed....
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  #18  
Old 03-08-2018, 12:39 PM
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Default Re: 18" crash has same pitch as 17" of the same model

Wow. I never heard of this program before. That's really great. Very wise of Sabian - I imagine lots of people stay loyal to the brand knowing this.
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  #19  
Old 03-08-2018, 05:25 PM
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Default Re: 18" crash has same pitch as 17" of the same model

Quote:
Originally Posted by SalTheSanitationBear View Post
For those of you who've used the cymbal refresh program, what's the waiting period like?
Just over 2 weeks from the date of shipping them out to Sabian.
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  #20  
Old 03-09-2018, 11:21 PM
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Default Re: 18" crash has same pitch as 17" of the same model

Quote:
Originally Posted by SalTheSanitationBear View Post
Is this common? I bought an 18" HHX Explosion crash online thinking it would be a lower pitched version of my 17", but the pitch between the two is more or less the same. The 18" has more spread & slightly different characteristics, but underneath the rest of the drums, the cymbals sound pretty much identical. Perhaps it's heavier & thus brighter than other 18" models?

Should I look for the 19" model now instead? -.-

I've experienced this more than once with SABAIN's HHX line, the fundamental notes between different size cymbals matching.

ZILDJIAN sees this too, but the difference is the guy they have testing them before they get released.
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  #21  
Old 03-10-2018, 11:52 PM
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Default Re: 18" crash has same pitch as 17" of the same model

As said above, with B20 cymbals one should try really hard to hear before buying. I know that is sometimes difficult, but it is still true. On the set I play at church and with my personal cymbals, the crashes are 17 and 18. Peace and goodwill.
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  #22  
Old 04-07-2018, 01:47 AM
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Default Re: 18" crash has same pitch as 17" of the same model

Got the cymbal back from Sabian today, pretty much exactly two weeks after I shipped it out (they estimated 2-4 weeks). The pitch is noticeably lower, darker with more shimmer & a great contrast to my 17", which is what I wanted initially. Looks brand new again as well (it was bought used).

I'm quite pleased. The cymbal refresh program: Chef recommends ✓

Cheers
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  #23  
Old 04-07-2018, 04:01 AM
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Default Re: 18" crash has same pitch as 17" of the same model

Their refresh program is awesome. Had them remove edge cracks from a 10” evo splash and thin out my 17” evo crash. Couldn’t be happier with either.
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