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Old 03-07-2018, 04:21 PM
jonathanroseleth jonathanroseleth is offline
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Default Contemporary Jazz

Hi Drummers,

I'm looking for some great online videos for learning some contemporary jazz.
Like the bans: Gogo Penguin, Phronesis or even drumming like Magnus Olstrom.

All I ever find are classical jazz patterns, or how to comp the snare in a basic ride pattern.

I never find lessons on contemporary jazz. for instance: if you have a listen at a song like Gogo Penguin - All Res, you can hear that there isn't any classical jazz played (and isn't in the standard triplet feel). But what does he play? or how can you develop this style?

Can someone help me out on finding some great books/ videos on how to learn this kind of drumming?

Greets!

Jonathan
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Old 03-07-2018, 05:14 PM
toddbishop toddbishop is offline
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Default Re: Contemporary Jazz

Don't know those bands, but skimming through some of their stuff, a lot of that is regular modern funk/fusion vocabulary-- or solo vocabulary, or playing sounds. The guy in Phronesis seems to do more "traditional" modern jazz playing than the others-- there are things recognizably connected to players like Jack Dejohnette or Jon Christensen or Jorge Rossy. The other guys are basically playing straight fusion with a different sound and touch, with a hyperactive drum & bass edge-- more like prog rock in Olstrom's case.
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Old 03-07-2018, 05:45 PM
brentcn brentcn is offline
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Default Re: Contemporary Jazz

What TB said.

Learning materials are a bit limited. Johnny Rabb has a book on learning Drum and Bass drumming, but I can't vouch for its contents. Here on DW there are transcriptions of Jojo Mayer's playing. Also, research actual Drum and Bass techno artists -- Aphex Twin being a good place to start.

(If you really want to get into a style, slowing down and transcribing is an important part of that process.)
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Old 03-07-2018, 06:27 PM
jonathanroseleth jonathanroseleth is offline
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Default Re: Contemporary Jazz

Thanks guys for the replies!

Well I have the Johnny Rabb book at home, maybe this is a good book to start with as well?

Still drum and bass is a lot different no? I never heard so many 16th note kicks in one measure in DnB, or so many different patterns.

Jonathan
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Old 03-07-2018, 06:29 PM
jonathanroseleth jonathanroseleth is offline
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Default Re: Contemporary Jazz

Ok seems I didn't read your Johnny Rabb part, :)
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Old 03-07-2018, 07:38 PM
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Alex Sanguinetti Alex Sanguinetti is offline
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Default Re: Contemporary Jazz

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathanroseleth View Post
Hi Drummers,

I'm looking for some great online videos for learning some contemporary jazz.
Iīm a little reluctant to call those bands "Contemporary Jazz", though the label is unimportant of course.

Those piano trios in general play oddtime signatures, "Phronesis", has a looser in feel than "Gogo Penguin" in my view. The drummers move making variations on those meters.

Tuition for this is:

1) improvisational skills
2) funk/straight eights rhythms in the context of odd time signatures.

(previous to this you have to learn reading, jazz, funk, etc.)

Last edited by Alex Sanguinetti; 03-07-2018 at 08:51 PM.
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Old 03-07-2018, 08:05 PM
brentcn brentcn is offline
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Default Re: Contemporary Jazz

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathanroseleth View Post
Still drum and bass is a lot different no?
Well, sure, it's different, but it's helpful to understand where this style of playing originated: drummers emulating DJs and producers who were creating new (and sometimes unplayable by drummers) grooves for fans of techno.
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Old 03-08-2018, 01:28 PM
jonathanroseleth jonathanroseleth is offline
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Default Re: Contemporary Jazz

Thanks all, this helped a lot!

Also, can anyone recommend a really good book on odd times?

J
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Old 03-08-2018, 04:50 PM
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Alex Sanguinetti Alex Sanguinetti is offline
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Default Re: Contemporary Jazz

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathanroseleth View Post
Thanks all, this helped a lot!

Also, can anyone recommend a really good book on odd times?

J
First of all, there are books on odd times, but the ones I know I donīt think would help you too much for what you want to achieve.

For that is more:

1) Study very well reading to a point you can transcribe.
2) Transcribe the players you are interested and practice that or make you own patterns inpired by those players and own inventive.

(Of course for this you need to have ALSO enough technique to be able to reproduce them)

Playing in oddtime signatures became fashionable in the 70īs, though it was a different sound than the one you are talking about (yourīs is more acoustic).

To give you an idea of the kind of work you have to do (with your own players) here is an example I did at the time (70īs) to learn those kind of patterns:

SONG: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWZnYapcfGU

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Old 03-08-2018, 05:34 PM
toddbishop toddbishop is offline
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Default Re: Contemporary Jazz

I like Ralph Humphrey's Even in the Odds for that. It works best if you already have your stuff kind of together in normal meters. Also Mitchell Peters's Odd Time Calisthenics and Gary Chaffee's Odd Time Stickings.

There are things you can do with other books to put them in odd meters— you'll have to look through all my odd meter posts to find that.
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Old 03-09-2018, 05:22 PM
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Bonzo_CR Bonzo_CR is offline
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Default Re: Contemporary Jazz

I started to think there was a link between jazz and drum&bass a few years ago while I was working on left hand comping.

I went straight from Art of Bop to the Johnny Rabb book. I highly recommend both!

For me I have really benefited from using the books to develop the technique and vocabulary, then immersing myself in the music by listening to as much as possible, and finally playing along to develop fluidity, followed by improvising without thinking about one style or the other.

These guys seem to use the different styles and influences to form a springboard for playing something new. I had never heard of Gogo Penguin or Phronesis, but like them both. Another great thing about this forum. Thanks for posting Jonathan!
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Old 03-09-2018, 08:15 PM
ockidocki ockidocki is offline
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Default Re: Contemporary Jazz

I also like those bands a lot. Other similar bands that are great, in case you don't know them:

- Heernt, Now vs Now, Girls in Airports, Portico Quartet, Mammal Hands, Vijay Iyer Trio, Robert Glasper Trio, E.S.T., The Bad Plus.

I'm also interested in learning this kind of vocabulary. I just got Guiliana's Exploring Your Creativity on the Drumset and I will start working on it soon. As you may know, Guiliana is the drummer in Heernt and Now vs Now, so I would consider him a master and representative player for this genre. Besides being an incredible drummer in general, of course.

His books is mostly about practicing the "building blocks"/"words" in the vocabulary, and then doing constrained practice (practice in which only certain building blocks are allowed to occur) to build creativity in a controlled way, and
learn to improvise your own "composites" out of the building blocks. It's a bottom-up, general approach that I find appealing.

The book doesn't focus on technique. You need to get your technique somewhere else, and then exploit it in the context of the book.

I can post back once I've incorporated the book in my practice routine and try to give some tips about how to approach it.

I'm also very interested in knowing how others get the most out of the book. I'm gonna follow this thread closely!
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  #13  
Old 03-10-2018, 01:04 PM
jonathanroseleth jonathanroseleth is offline
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Default Re: Contemporary Jazz

Oh yeah, I really like Mammal hands and Portico Quartet aswell!

I just checked some youtube vids of Mark Guiliana, that's really helpful in what I'm trying to achieve. So I guess I'm ordering that book :) thx for that tip!

As it comes to slowing down a song and trying to transcribe it, I use ableton. But I find it kind of hard because the sound get's lower and harder and makes it sometimes hard to perfectly hear what's going on.
I'm not saying it's impossible this way, I'm used to transcribe songs.
But is there some software to slow down a song without changing the pitch too much?
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Old 04-12-2018, 02:31 PM
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rhydianjlewis rhydianjlewis is offline
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Default Re: Contemporary Jazz

I'm into the same style at the moment also. On top of those mentioned, 'The 80/20 drummer' on youtube has interesting practise techniques for that style of playing. I personally really enjoy playing along to mammal hands stuff as the time sigs are generally simpler!
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