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Old 02-19-2018, 05:58 PM
junior-drummer junior-drummer is offline
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Default Fast ride cymbal RRR RRR how to get that tight chilled sound over 140 bpm

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I am exercising RRR RRR between a 140 -150 bpm , sixteens. With the push pull technique.
Seems like over 140 i am stepping into a gray zone where there is a switch from push pull technique into
a buzz roll technique. Or a hybrid like push-buzz thing. Is that right ?

I saw a drummer playing it really fast and it looked more like a press roll.

With the push pull over 140 bpm i feel the stick is playing too much with too many rings, I cant get that chilled tight jazzy sound.
While my buzz roll roll has that tight chilled sound but i cant get it to swing.

Question is: is there a hybrid thing (like push buzz) or its just a matter of polishing my push pull technique?


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Old 02-19-2018, 06:16 PM
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Default Re: Fast ride cymbal RRR RRR how to get that tight chilled sound over 140 bpm

Would this guy help?

https://youtu.be/D3p5Xi1xg8w
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Old 02-19-2018, 06:43 PM
brentcn brentcn is offline
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Default Re: Fast ride cymbal RRR RRR how to get that tight chilled sound over 140 bpm

Quote:
Originally Posted by junior-drummer View Post
Question is: is there a hybrid thing (like push buzz) or its just a matter of polishing my push pull technique?
Push-pull is a great place to start. You can think of it as "push" or "bounce" for the first two notes, and then a "pull" or "snap" with the fingers for the last note. So it's really a combination of techniques, not just one technique.

140 (the jazz guys usually call this 280) is about where the three notes should straighten out. So just try to play three evenly spaced notes from there on up. By all means, give it a little swing if you're able, once you get a handle on up-tempo technique.
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Old 02-19-2018, 07:55 PM
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Default Re: Fast ride cymbal RRR RRR how to get that tight chilled sound over 140 bpm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjMRgT5dytM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eh9Zlks_sk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azlD3GvWIzI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1YKQ904iDI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nhy1veC_TqI
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Old 02-19-2018, 08:21 PM
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Default Re: Fast ride cymbal RRR RRR how to get that tight chilled sound over 140 bpm

Here is a post I wrote about this topic a while back... it's based on my lessons with John Riely, who, IMO, is one of the premier educators on the topic.

"How to Blaze the Ride Cymbal"
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Old 02-19-2018, 08:37 PM
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Default Re: Fast ride cymbal RRR RRR how to get that tight chilled sound over 140 bpm

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Originally Posted by Bo Eder View Post
Would this guy help?

https://youtu.be/D3p5Xi1xg8w

I love the way he teaches, never heard of him before but his advice on counting staying calm and relaxed even if you are cooking makes so much sense and should be common sense. but i just realized i work myself up and try to count too fast and get frantic...
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Old 02-19-2018, 11:58 PM
JohnW JohnW is offline
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Default Re: Fast ride cymbal RRR RRR how to get that tight chilled sound over 140 bpm

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Originally Posted by feldiefeld View Post
Here is a post I wrote about this topic a while back... it's based on my lessons with John Riely, who, IMO, is one of the premier educators on the topic.

"How to Blaze the Ride Cymbal"

This is a really good article. I like how you describe the limitations you were facing, how John helped you break down the problem and the concept(s) behind the technique.
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Old 02-20-2018, 12:45 AM
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Default Re: Fast ride cymbal RRR RRR how to get that tight chilled sound over 140 bpm

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Originally Posted by Icetech View Post
I love the way he teaches, never heard of him before but his advice on counting staying calm and relaxed even if you are cooking makes so much sense and should be common sense. but i just realized i work myself up and try to count too fast and get frantic...
He’s the guy with the Yellowjackets. I would say there’s at least one number per Yellowjackets albums where the tempo is mind-bendingly fast - and he can go faster. Helluva funny guy too.
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Old 02-20-2018, 12:17 PM
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Default Re: Fast ride cymbal RRR RRR how to get that tight chilled sound over 140 bpm

I don¨t use the push-pull technique (ever), however at 280-300 should be pretty easy to do it JUST with the fingers.

Anyway, the problem is not there (meaning: "at that tempo"), is when it´s around 400 bpm (example): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmIxswvPByA

Last edited by Alex Sanguinetti; 02-20-2018 at 05:15 PM.
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Old 02-21-2018, 08:44 PM
AndeeT AndeeT is offline
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Default Re: Fast ride cymbal RRR RRR how to get that tight chilled sound over 140 bpm

a low moeller may help no?
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Old 02-21-2018, 08:46 PM
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Default Re: Fast ride cymbal RRR RRR how to get that tight chilled sound over 140 bpm

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a low moeller may help no?
Or Jojo Mayer's self labeled Abbreviated Moeller-Mayer Technique?
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Old 02-22-2018, 02:57 PM
beyondbetrayal beyondbetrayal is offline
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Default Re: Fast ride cymbal RRR RRR how to get that tight chilled sound over 140 bpm

I do the same thing building speed. I play it where I am able to , and slowly build... My body will find a way to do it. That way I am not forcing a technique.

For fast jazz I just play medium swing until I am really pushing, then push a bit more. Eventually my arm is burning and it loses a bit of swing.

It may help to think of it as "push,tap,pull" or wrist, fingers pull

You are still making the hits, it's not a buzz or press roll. You gotta keep it controlled.
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Old 02-22-2018, 03:54 PM
toddbishop toddbishop is online now
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Default Re: Fast ride cymbal RRR RRR how to get that tight chilled sound over 140 bpm

As Alex mentioned, that's not a tempo range that generally requires a special technique. If you're using any kind of buzz roll technique-- whatever that means to you-- you're definitely doing it wrong. Whatever technique you're using at 120 or 130, you should be able to use up into the 150s-- with practice.

I don't know how many people here actually play this music— talk always centers around cymbal technique and nothing else, ever, so I guess not many— but I try to avoid hacking out RRR RRR the whole tune when playing this style and tempo. It's way too much work, I don't dig it musically, and I don't know how many bop guys are still around that both play those tempos and demand a drummer go RRR RRR all night.
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Old 02-22-2018, 06:16 PM
junior-drummer junior-drummer is offline
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Default Re: Fast ride cymbal RRR RRR how to get that tight chilled sound over 140 bpm

.

Cool thanks to all of you. So i am at 140 with push pull I will build it up to
150 without switching technique then.
And to answer to Mr. andeteeT not Moeller as you will get to many rings. The idea is to get chilled sound, less rings as possible at 150
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Old 02-22-2018, 09:22 PM
AndeeT AndeeT is offline
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Default Re: Fast ride cymbal RRR RRR how to get that tight chilled sound over 140 bpm

Ah I see, so you mean you want the three notes as un-accented taps? Yea MOELLER will want to give you an accent on one of the strokes
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Old 02-23-2018, 09:02 AM
junior-drummer junior-drummer is offline
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Default Re: Fast ride cymbal RRR RRR how to get that tight chilled sound over 140 bpm

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Originally Posted by AndeeT View Post
Ah I see, so you mean you want the three notes as un-accented taps?
Exactly... it would be more simple if it was a moeller game.
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Old 02-23-2018, 09:50 AM
AndeeT AndeeT is offline
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Default Re: Fast ride cymbal RRR RRR how to get that tight chilled sound over 140 bpm

Right you area. Is it worth working purely on finger control in. French position? It’s good for strings of unnaccented notes
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Old 02-23-2018, 02:23 PM
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Default Re: Fast ride cymbal RRR RRR how to get that tight chilled sound over 140 bpm

Here I´m playing around 1/4 = 280 bpm , not special techique required:

VIDEO: (Blues, 12´s trading)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22Jj3BELApg

Last edited by Alex Sanguinetti; 02-23-2018 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 02-23-2018, 09:59 PM
loach71 loach71 is offline
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Default Re: Fast ride cymbal RRR RRR how to get that tight chilled sound over 140 bpm

Clean, crisp playing! Great stuff!
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Old 02-23-2018, 10:26 PM
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Alex Sanguinetti Alex Sanguinetti is offline
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Default Re: Fast ride cymbal RRR RRR how to get that tight chilled sound over 140 bpm

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Originally Posted by loach71 View Post
Clean, crisp playing! Great stuff!
Thanks a lot!

Best regards from Spain!
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