DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > General Discussion

General Discussion General discussion forum for all drum related topics. Use this forum to exchange ideas and information with your fellow drummers.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 12-15-2017, 10:58 AM
Black Label's Avatar
Black Label Black Label is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 129
Default I'm going deaf!! Some headphone advice please

Hi there - from years of abuse, I'm noticing that my hearing is definitely becoming a problem. I'm battling to hear certain frequencies and with ambient noise around and bad acoustics, I must look like a deer in your headlights.


Anyway, normally when I gig, I play with a set of Shure in ears which are not noise isolating but probably block out about 50 - 60% of the drum kit. I normally play through an Aviom A16 personal mixer with the normal channels (kit, bass, electric guitar, acoustic, keys, various vocal channels and click) where I can adjust the various mixes in my ears and I control the click track too. The problem that I find however, is that in order for me to clearly hear the click, I have to virtually turn it all the way up because of the noise bleeding from the drumkit - irrespective of the mix in my ears, the problem is the bleed through the in-ears. And no matter the sound I use for the click - turn that thing all the way up and you can feel your eyeballs rattle!



I think the loud click has over the years contributed as much if not more to my hearing issues than the years of playing without any hearing protection. So here's my thinking: to limit future damage, I need to invest in better earphones which will completely block out ambient noise and where the only sound that I can hear, will be from the mixer. That will allow me then to better control the sound and bring the click volume down substantially.



I, by far, prefer in ears as opposed to "cans" (headphones) but I do realise that I will probably have more success with cans than with in ears.



Please can you guys give me some advice as to what to look for - which brand, product etc can you personally recommend for complete sound isolation. Although money will aways be a factor, at this stage I am more concerned about being able to converse with my grand-kids one day than about saving a couple of coins now. Thanks in advance and have a great day!
__________________
Ď71 Ludwig MPM kit / Ď69 Ludwig Supra / Paiste / Vic Firth
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-15-2017, 11:15 AM
jornthedrummer jornthedrummer is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 881
Default Re: I'm going deaf!! Some headphone advice please

The Vic Firth headphones have tremendous isolation and are inexpensive. Try those. Also great to reduce the sound level during drum practice.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-15-2017, 02:31 PM
AzHeat's Avatar
AzHeat AzHeat is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 1,263
Default Re: I'm going deaf!! Some headphone advice please

For me the Vic Firth headphones, while isolating, picked up a bizarre mid bass frequency that would cause me hearing fatigue. Iíve been using IEM with a pair of isolating cans over those. Nothing fancy, just the stuff you see at a construction site.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-15-2017, 02:43 PM
GruntersDad's Avatar
GruntersDad GruntersDad is offline
Administrator - Mayor
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gulf Coast Seminole, Florida
Posts: 21,859
Default Re: I'm going deaf!! Some headphone advice please

I would look for an audiologist for a hearing test and proper advice as to what you may or may not need.
__________________
johnny
Suum cuique tribuere....
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-15-2017, 02:55 PM
Tamaefx's Avatar
Tamaefx Tamaefx is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: France
Posts: 671
Default Re: I'm going deaf!! Some headphone advice please

The first and more important thing is to measure you ear loss, know the frequencies and have diagnosis. An ear loss may have more than one cause.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-15-2017, 03:05 PM
cornelius cornelius is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 880
Default Re: I'm going deaf!! Some headphone advice please

Since youíre used to IEMís, check out etymotic. Iíve been using their earphones for years, they isolate probably better than anything else. The other great part is they sound excellent - I have the ER 4SR and they double as a good reference for checking out mixes.

Seeing a doctor is probably a good idea..
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-15-2017, 03:27 PM
MJD's Avatar
MJD MJD is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pleasantville NY USA
Posts: 537
Default Re: I'm going deaf!! Some headphone advice please

I'm hearing impaired and have been wearing hearing aids since i was 5 years old. I'm going to say this once. Get ye to an audiologist and get some hearing aids. With the digital ones they can tailor it exactly to your frequency loss. Also they can be programed to drop the volume level when you are around super loud sounds without loosing sound fidelity or clarity the way you do with ear plugs. You will never be able to use in ear headphones but you'll be able to use over the ear and many of the suggestions here are good.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-15-2017, 03:57 PM
GruntersDad's Avatar
GruntersDad GruntersDad is offline
Administrator - Mayor
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gulf Coast Seminole, Florida
Posts: 21,859
Default Re: I'm going deaf!! Some headphone advice please

I posted this on Facebook a year ago and it may help here. People with vision problems go to the eye doc, get a prescription, buy glasses and wear them right on the front of their faces, no big deal. But when we have hearing issues there is some stigma about having a visible hearing aid. OMG, you're a freak. Where does this social stigma come from. Eyeglasses make us look educated, suave, intelligent, etc and yet hearing aids make us look old and weird. Go figure. Go get your hearing checked.
__________________
johnny
Suum cuique tribuere....
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-15-2017, 04:26 PM
MJD's Avatar
MJD MJD is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pleasantville NY USA
Posts: 537
Default Re: I'm going deaf!! Some headphone advice please

Quote:
Originally Posted by GruntersDad View Post
I posted this on Facebook a year ago and it may help here. People with vision problems go to the eye doc, get a prescription, buy glasses and wear them right on the front of their faces, no big deal. But when we have hearing issues there is some stigma about having a visible hearing aid. OMG, you're a freak. Where does this social stigma come from. Eyeglasses make us look educated, suave, intelligent, etc and yet hearing aids make us look old and weird. Go figure. Go get your hearing checked.
I do not have the stealth hearing aids.(too small and they feed back more) mine are full sized molded to my ears but the majority of people don't notice till i point them out. Hearing aids aren't as noticeable as glasses. No idea what sort of stigma you've encountered but having worn them since the age of 5 I certainly didn't get any extra flack for them. Glasses i did get made fun of for, hearing aids not so much.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-15-2017, 05:08 PM
BradGunnerSGT's Avatar
BradGunnerSGT BradGunnerSGT is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 684
Default Re: I'm going deaf!! Some headphone advice please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Label View Post

Anyway, normally when I gig, I play with a set of Shure in ears which are not noise isolating but probably block out about 50 - 60% of the drum kit.
Which model of Shure IEMs do you have? You can probably get some Comply foam tips for them that will block out more than 90% of the outside sound. I use the Shure SE215 IEMs and the Comply tips and they block outside sounds very well.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-15-2017, 05:55 PM
GruntersDad's Avatar
GruntersDad GruntersDad is offline
Administrator - Mayor
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Gulf Coast Seminole, Florida
Posts: 21,859
Default Re: I'm going deaf!! Some headphone advice please

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJD View Post
I do not have the stealth hearing aids.(too small and they feed back more) mine are full sized molded to my ears but the majority of people don't notice till i point them out. Hearing aids aren't as noticeable as glasses. No idea what sort of stigma you've encountered but having worn them since the age of 5 I certainly didn't get any extra flack for them. Glasses i did get made fun of for, hearing aids not so much.
It's on every commercial for hearing aids. "so small no one will know you are wearing them" "smaller than a pencil eraser, fits entirely in your ear."
__________________
johnny
Suum cuique tribuere....
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-15-2017, 11:43 PM
BruceW BruceW is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 256
Default Re: I'm going deaf!! Some headphone advice please

Quote:
Originally Posted by BradGunnerSGT View Post
Which model of Shure IEMs do you have? You can probably get some Comply foam tips for them that will block out more than 90% of the outside sound. I use the Shure SE215 IEMs and the Comply tips and they block outside sounds very well.
I use the SE215's and have no issues with them. I haven't tried the Comply tips, I will look at those when I get some new tips, and see if they're even better...
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-16-2017, 12:20 PM
Black Label's Avatar
Black Label Black Label is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 129
Default Re: I'm going deaf!! Some headphone advice please

Hi there guys - thank you very much for all the input. My Shure's are also the the SE 215's - I have been playing around with the different tips and find the medium sized foam ones to work the best for me but I have not tried any of the non-stock tips which I should look into as well - are the Comply tips different to the ones that these come with new? I am definitely going to see an audiologist as well before I make a final call on the earphones.
__________________
Ď71 Ludwig MPM kit / Ď69 Ludwig Supra / Paiste / Vic Firth
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-16-2017, 04:44 PM
drumming sort of person's Avatar
drumming sort of person drumming sort of person is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 2,248
Default Re: I'm going deaf!! Some headphone advice please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Label View Post
I think the loud click has over the years contributed as much if not more to my hearing issues than the years of playing without any hearing protection.
Most definitely! And however you solve the problem of which headphone you want to get, you definitely need to work on your click issues. Also, for the in-ear variety, you must get custom fitted.

The click should NOT need to be that loud. And the timing of the click should be no more frequent than quarter notes. You need to learn to trust your own timing, and if you hear the click you know you need to adjust things. If you don't hear it, you know you're right on it.

I gave up performing with a click decades ago and refuse to do so anymore. Either hire more musicians, rearrange the music, or use a damn drum machine.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-16-2017, 05:21 PM
GetAgrippa's Avatar
GetAgrippa GetAgrippa is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: U.S.
Posts: 2,602
Default Re: I'm going deaf!! Some headphone advice please

We ďnaturallyĒ lose our hearing with aging-presbycusis. So I have a triple whammy of surgical (from tumor removal), loud noise, and now age-related hearing loss. But I can still hear with aids- which I just bought/trial period some new ones, for $6,400 smackers, but damn the newer technology is worth it. More realistic sound, music sounds great, works great in crowded loud rooms (none Iíve tried have before), has a built in blue tooth so I can answer and talk on my cell phone through my aids with it 30 ft away/ Same to listen to TV. My left ear is worse but the input of this new aid is enough my brain translates it so I have biaural hearing again- so can determine direction (havenít done that in 20 years) I was really just trying them to appease my wife who keeps complaining but Wow . Course it isnít like glasses where you can be corrected to 20/20 it is just an aid- but Iím blown away with what I can hear again. My wife and daughters say Iíve come back from the dead. The only thorn is the 6 freaking grand which Iíve built and depleted a special fun fund about four times now ,that will never see itís intended purpose apparently,that would cover over half it. So merry Christmas to me looks like- I. can hear the jingle bells.
__________________
"Only play the notes when required!"
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-16-2017, 08:18 PM
Bo Eder's Avatar
Bo Eder Bo Eder is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 12,928
Default Re: I'm going deaf!! Some headphone advice please

I agree with Grunt - go to an audiologist and start there.

I also use the Shure SE215 and SE315 IEM's, and I don't think over time the products stopped working (they do block enough of the outside sound - although not as well as custom in-ear molds), as much as I think you've turned everything up so much over the years that your hearing is now damaged. And like brain cells, your hearing doesn't grow back - you just learn to live with your condition.

I wouldn't be surprised if your audiologist recommends getting fitted for custom in ear monitors - those can block up to 26dB of the outside sound - plenty to keep you from having to crank up the signal going to the monitors.

I remember reading a Peter Erskine blurb years ago when he talked about his in-ear rig: he smartly put a limiter between the in-coming signal and his in-ears - because the problem is that you could now go deaf if an errant signal got past the output of the console and went straight into your ears. Smart guy, that Mr. Erskine!

But if you're looking at headphones - I use the GK Ultraphones - which are basically Peltor shooting earphones fitted with the drivers from Sony MDR-7506 studio headphones. Best in the business (but well over $300 too). The Peltor shooter's muffs are designed to block at least 26 dB of outside sound, so you don't have to turn up your sound going into the headphones. I started using those over 15 years ago when one of my first mixer jobs was mixing a band from behind them - I couldn't hear what I was sending into the house because I wasn't in the house!

Last edited by Bo Eder; 12-25-2017 at 08:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-18-2017, 03:59 PM
drummer-russ's Avatar
drummer-russ drummer-russ is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: St. Peters Mo
Posts: 1,173
Default Re: I'm going deaf!! Some headphone advice please

Take a look at comply tips. I use the sport type and they isolate better than the ones that comes with the Shures.
__________________
Playing live in front of appreciative audience is the 2nd best thing in the world!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-18-2017, 04:28 PM
bermuda's Avatar
bermuda bermuda is offline
Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8,612
Default Re: I'm going deaf!! Some headphone advice please

Isolation is the key in keeping the volume manageable. Molded in-ears are far superior to the Shure etc that you buy in stores, however they'll cost $1000+.

I'd recommend starting with good isolation headphones. The Vic Firths isolate well, but they don't sound great (whaddya want for $70?) Same with the Extreme Isolation phones (around $125.) I've been using the GK Ultraphones for about 15 years, and they're fabulous. They're comparatively pricey at $230, but well worth it. Check them out at www.gk-music.com (GK is Gordy Knutson, drummer with Steve Miller and educator in the Minneapolis area.)

A note about any of those headphones and isolation, they have to fit against your head for a good seal. If you have a crew cut or are shaved, you're all set! :) But if you've got bushy hair that keeps the earcup away from your skull, you won't get a good seal, and the benefits will be diminished.

And a few points about headphones vs in-ears. The comfort level is much better with phones, you can more easily hear someone talking by lifting an earcup (as opposed to weaseling a mold out of your ear) and repairs or replacement are speedy and cheap. I always carried a 2nd pair of phones, although I never needed them.

Did I mention the $avings?

Bermuda
__________________
DrumDoug: "I've tried talking to the guys about our stage volume, but it just falls on deaf ears"
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-19-2017, 01:01 AM
bonerpizza's Avatar
bonerpizza bonerpizza is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 696
Default Re: I'm going deaf!! Some headphone advice please

I'd try some IEMs with decent tips and see if that helps at all, I use a pair of MEE Audio M6 Pro IEMs with Comply Large foam tips and they work great. I tried the tips that came with them and my ear canals are too big so if I open my mouth or move a certain way I'd get a rush of sound coming in, the large Comply foam tips solved that problem.

MEE Audio M6 Pro IEMs ($39 on Amazon) http://a.co/aBayi4H

Comply Foam tips (enter the brand and model of earbuds you're using and it'll show you what products fit) http://www.complyfoam.com/

I use mine to play to a click in one ear with an earplug in the other ear and they work great.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-20-2017, 04:45 AM
Black Label's Avatar
Black Label Black Label is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 129
Default Re: I'm going deaf!! Some headphone advice please

Thanks so much for all the advice👍 At this stage the Comply tips appear to be a good option to try out first (along wit a visit to an audiologist) - thereís not too much available locally here in South Africa, but Iím leaving on a European holiday tomorrow so may find some Comply Tips over there. If not I may have to pay the $9 shipping to get them here. Wishing you all a blessed Christmas 👍
__________________
Ď71 Ludwig MPM kit / Ď69 Ludwig Supra / Paiste / Vic Firth
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 12-21-2017, 06:28 AM
Farm Carnage Farm Carnage is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7
Default Re: I'm going deaf!! Some headphone advice please

Simple fix that works for me -- when I need to hear a click I put on industrial ear defenders over the IEMs.

It cuts out the outside sound more than enough to hear the click.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-25-2017, 05:56 AM
oldskoolsoul's Avatar
oldskoolsoul oldskoolsoul is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 352
Default Re: I'm going deaf!! Some headphone advice please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Label View Post
..from years of abuse, I'm noticing that my hearing is definitely becoming a problem..

Maybe this is not directly helping you with the problem that you have, but if you have the feeling that your hearing becomes a problem, i would be very careful with putting direct sound-sources on your ears..

My advice would be to invest in high-quality earprotection (costum-made) and use, if possible, just a normal monitor (ofcourse also on a reasonable distance from the ears..)

This because i think the risk is very big that every direct sound-source (no matter if headphones or in-ear systems..) will be putted too loud for your ears anyway..
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-25-2017, 06:18 PM
cbphoto's Avatar
cbphoto cbphoto is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: MŲbius Strip
Posts: 660
Default Re: I'm going deaf!! Some headphone advice please

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
I've been using the GK Ultraphones for about 15 years, and they're fabulous. They're comparatively pricey at $230, but well worth it. Check them out at www.gk-music.com (GK is Gordy Knutson, drummer with Steve Miller and educator in the Minneapolis area.)
+1

I have working pairs of all three brands and GKís modified cans are by far the best. I wish I had a dozen in my studio for others to use. My only wish is for the cup liner to be a soft chamois instead of vinyl (because sweat).
__________________
~ CB
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-03-2018, 09:36 PM
MrPockets's Avatar
MrPockets MrPockets is offline
Gold Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,005
Default Re: I'm going deaf!! Some headphone advice please

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
.
I've been using the GK Ultraphones for about 15 years, and they're fabulous. They're comparatively pricey at $230, but well worth it. Check them out at www.gk-music.com (GK is Gordy Knutson, drummer with Steve Miller and educator in the Minneapolis area.)

Bermuda
He also lost his job at McNally-Smith so I'm sure he would appreciate the extra money for sales!
__________________
Drum is fum
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-03-2018, 09:54 PM
Mike Stand's Avatar
Mike Stand Mike Stand is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Mu-Mu Land
Posts: 468
Default Re: I'm going deaf!! Some headphone advice please

Quote:
Originally Posted by GruntersDad View Post
I posted this on Facebook a year ago and it may help here. People with vision problems go to the eye doc, get a prescription, buy glasses and wear them right on the front of their faces, no big deal. But when we have hearing issues there is some stigma about having a visible hearing aid. OMG, you're a freak. Where does this social stigma come from. Eyeglasses make us look educated, suave, intelligent, etc and yet hearing aids make us look old and weird. Go figure. Go get your hearing checked.
Just goes to show how much people value the visual over the auditive.

And yet, maybe it should be the other way round. If you have mildly reduced visual capacity I don't think that it would be a great impedement to interaction with others.

Reduced hearing capacity on the other hand can be very awkward. I know this from my own experience. It's just so easy to come across as dim-witted. It's much more isolating than visual impairment IMHO.

For me, it proves that hearing should be more highly regarded and not taken for granted.
__________________
"Uh uh uh uuuuuuuuuuh..." - Art Blakey (as heard on numerous recordings)
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-10-2018, 08:40 AM
Swiss Matthias's Avatar
Swiss Matthias Swiss Matthias is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 3,195
Default Re: I'm going deaf!! Some headphone advice please

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Label View Post
Anyway, normally when I gig, I play with a set of Shure in ears which are not noise isolating but probably block out about 50 - 60% of the drum kit.
So you only hear about 3 drums and 2 cymbals then? :) :)
__________________
My website
My youtube channel
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-10-2018, 05:43 PM
rummy rummy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Chicago
Posts: 176
Default Re: I'm going deaf!! Some headphone advice please

Etymotic in ears for me as well. I can still hear what's going on pretty well.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-12-2018, 12:24 PM
AndeeT AndeeT is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 257
Default Re: I'm going deaf!! Some headphone advice please

I also have some click-induced hearing loss.

Partly through using the Shure 215's and partly through using some custom in-ear moulded IEM's that had a poor mould. Partly through just playing the drums too loud.

I have a new set of custom IEM, this time with a great mould, and the isolation is much better, I can turn the click down.

As Bermuda said before, the mould/fit/isolation is the key here.

Personally, for me, 'universal' monitors such as the Shure ones never gave me a complete seal, so I get a lot of drums leaking through, and thus me turning up the click, just as in your own situation. I tried all different types of tips.

Ergonomics and 'universal' products will fail a percentage of the population. We aren't all 'average', that's why we call it an average. :-)

My suggestion is to get some custom moulded IEM's and make sure that the seal is perfect. The seal can break when you move your jaw, as this changes the shape of your inner ear. Keep this in mind.

The other (probably most important thing) I have learned, is that we don't need to play so loud. I play rock and metal and it is part of the style usually to be a bit of a neanderthal drummer, playing loud, all the time. I certainly adhered to that for a while until last year. For many years I did not want to compromise on volume as I thought it was integral to the music. Certainly, a few professional metal drummers have not, and now they have hearing loss (Vinnie Paul, ryan van poederooyen, to name a few).

And it's not just that, you need to learn to 'play to the room' as they say. Not just from the perspective of an audience, but definitely from the view of your ear health. My band currently practices in a 14 foot square room with no sound dampening on the wall, two guitar stacks, a bass stack, PA and drum kit. All of that sound energy has nowhere to go and I can come away from two hours in there with ringing in my ears after STILL WEARING earplugs the whole time. It's crazy.

So to summarise, look at your surroundings and play accordingly, and don't be afraid to 'turn' yourself down. As I said, my stupid 'metal pride' (probably the same metal pride that means my bandmates don't wear any form of hearing protection at all!) meant that I refused to do this. And many records have been cut with low volume drums. And, we have microphones to amplify us live (hopefully) :-)

The bottom line; if we play quieter, we can turn the click down and protect our hearing.

Good luck,

Andy

Last edited by AndeeT; 01-12-2018 at 01:09 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com