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  #41  
Old 04-12-2017, 09:24 PM
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philrudd philrudd is offline
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Default Re: Drummers with Chops who don't Play on the Beat, play fills at wrong time, etc.

Isn't this just an example of technical prowess vs. musicality? Technique can be taught; musicality - not so much. At least, in my opinion...

I distinctly remember a gig in Virginia or North Carolina, many years ago; my touring band was opening for a local band with a bit of a following. I've always been a basic-kit type, and the kit this local dude was using had all the bells and whistles, including gongs and a china crash that hung on a Queensryche-style chain almost directly behind his head.

While the band set up, this guy - with a leather vest and long frosted hair - ran through a series of difficult fills that looked like karate katas, most of which ended with a dramatic twist and flinging of the arm as he struck the china to punctuate the fill. It sounded complicated, and it sure looked good; I was part intimidated and part awed, but either way I knew I had to check this guy out.

And then they began playing, and ...well, let's just say I'd already seen the guy's best drumming that night. Completely oblivious to the groove, awkwardly filling where no fill should be, seemingly bent on shoehorning his latest textbook lesson into every other measure, taste and feeling be damned...it was absolutely horrible.

The man had no musicality whatsoever, and I've encountered this periodically throughout my time playing drums: guys who have obviously done the woodshedding to master certain techniques, yet have seemingly no clue whatsoever as to how to actually PLAY A SONG.

According to modern educational theory, one of the 'seven intelligences' is musical intelligence. Another is intraspacial intelligence, the perception and awareness of one's physicality, found to a high degree in athletes. I think what we see here is an instance where the latter is strong, but the former is wanting.
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  #42  
Old 04-19-2017, 05:34 AM
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Default Re: Drummers with Chops who don't Play on the Beat, play fills at wrong time, etc.

The same tension applies in other situations too - like the difference between a racing driver and a chauffeur - they're both professional drivers, but only one can be trusted to take passengers smoothly and safely through real world traffic.

Same with fighter pilots versus airline pilots.
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  #43  
Old 04-19-2017, 06:47 PM
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Default Re: Drummers with Chops who don't Play on the Beat, play fills at wrong time, etc.

I'm unnecessarily taking up too much of your "band width" on this forum.......so.......Adios Muchachos.
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  #44  
Old 01-04-2018, 06:55 PM
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Default Re: Drummers with Chops who don't Play on the Beat, play fills at wrong time, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by philrudd View Post
Isn't this just an example of technical prowess vs. musicality? Technique can be taught; musicality - not so much. At least, in my opinion...

Completely oblivious to the groove, awkwardly filling where no fill should be, seemingly bent on shoehorning his latest textbook lesson into every other measure, taste and feeling be damned...it was absolutely horrible.

The man had no musicality whatsoever, and I've encountered this periodically throughout my time playing drums: guys who have obviously done the woodshedding to master certain techniques, yet have seemingly no clue whatsoever as to how to actually PLAY A SONG.
Anika Nilles falls (sort of) into this category.
I'm a fan of hers, but to be honest, it took me a good while to hear how what she was playing fit into her songs.
She's one to put a fill where it wouldn't normally be & tends to play over & under the measures.
She claims to be "All about the groove", but when you hear her songs, she doesn't "groove" for more than 10 seconds before she's filling again.

Having seen her clinics, she's very well educated in time and theory & uses this knowledge to change the feel of her song at will.
The issue is, she doesn't make it musical and there's no song service. That's where I feel the failure as a drummer is evident. If you can't lock in and serve the song, you're not doing the very basic job all of us as time keepers have.
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  #45  
Old 01-09-2018, 05:29 PM
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Pachikara-Tharakan Pachikara-Tharakan is offline
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Default Re: Drummers with Chops who don't Play on the Beat, play fills at wrong time, etc.

To me it all based on what we want to hear, its all individual opinion, nothing is wrong or right. For me, i love to hear over -drumming and playing stepping over vocals and stuff. for eg: I love Lars Ulrich playing in "When a blind man cries" , to me its better than the deep purple version.

again, what's better for me could be worse for some one else. its all individual taste and if the drummer feels what he or she is playing is how he or she wants to hear, the listener has no choice.

I love Charlie Watts and Keith moon equally.
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  #46  
Old 01-09-2018, 06:54 PM
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Default Re: Drummers with Chops who don't Play on the Beat, play fills at wrong time, etc.

Ahhh. Chops arguments; the great tape loop of drum forums. You peek in, even years after the fact, and it's still going on. :)
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  #47  
Old 01-09-2018, 07:08 PM
jimzo jimzo is offline
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Default Re: Drummers with Chops who don't Play on the Beat, play fills at wrong time, etc.

Drummers with Chops who don't Play on the Beat, play fills at wrong time, etc.

You guys do know that I am a member on this here forum and you shouldn't be talking about me in this way. I'll do better. There's always next year, ya' know; and the year after that.... if needed.
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  #48  
Old 01-09-2018, 07:15 PM
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Dr_Watso Dr_Watso is offline
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Default Re: Drummers with Chops who don't Play on the Beat, play fills at wrong time, etc.

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Originally Posted by philrudd View Post
The man had no musicality whatsoever, and I've encountered this periodically throughout my time playing drums: guys who have obviously done the woodshedding to master certain techniques, yet have seemingly no clue whatsoever as to how to actually PLAY A SONG.
This sounds like half of the idiot kids I see running around the music circles. They pretty much focused almost exclusively on their "double-bass" chops and while those sound pretty killer, they forgot the whole music part.

Sometimes it doesn't matter, a lot of the stuff they aspire to play is really more math than music.
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  #49  
Old 01-09-2018, 07:19 PM
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Default Re: Drummers with Chops who don't Play on the Beat, play fills at wrong time, etc.

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Originally Posted by philrudd View Post

seemingly bent on shoehorning his latest textbook lesson into every other measure, taste and feeling be damned...it was absolutely horrible.
Lol- I saw that recently at a blues jam, some drummer "shoehorning" too much into too little. Less is better in most of the music styles I play, but this guy was bent on too much and it was really evident to everyone.
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  #50  
Old 01-09-2018, 07:21 PM
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Default Re: Drummers with Chops who don't Play on the Beat, play fills at wrong time, etc.

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Originally Posted by newoldie View Post
Lol- I saw that recently at a blues jam, some drummer "shoehorning" too much into too little. Less is better in most of the music styles I play, but this guy was bent on too much and it was really evident to everyone.
Sometimes jams are an okay place to stretch out a bit IMO. It matters a lot less than at a paid gig... That said, there's a difference between stretching into a few fills you probably normally wouldn't and ruining the music.
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  #51  
Old 01-09-2018, 07:45 PM
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Odd-Arne Oseberg Odd-Arne Oseberg is offline
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Default Re: Drummers with Chops who don't Play on the Beat, play fills at wrong time, etc.

While Anika's approach isn't my own as a more diverse, often thinking more timefeel over static groove I'd venture to guess that that is what she means also.

She probably doesn't mean keeping a static groove, but rather that the main focus and priority is that it swings and feels good regardless of what's being played.

She has a vcertina approach, low tuned drums, dry snare, dark cymbals and plays modern electronic inspired things with what I hope I can, without being called sexist, a young female touch.

It seems all quite intentional and though it's hardly The Eagles, The Beatles or The Shadows lol it fits quite naturally in with her age, where she's from and what's current.

Sure, it's drum heavy and showcases drums quite heavy. Not much different from much of todays electronic music.

Someone like Vinnie doesn more complex shit all the time, but while he has more of a dynamic jazz inspired sensibility she's more up front. That's quite intentional a she wouldn't tune or play that way unless that's what she wanted.
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