DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM   

Go Back   DRUMMERWORLD OFFICIAL DISCUSSION FORUM > General Discussion

General Discussion General discussion forum for all drum related topics. Use this forum to exchange ideas and information with your fellow drummers.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 03-27-2012, 01:15 AM
Toolate Toolate is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 1,793
Default Dire Straits- Sultans of swing time sig

What is going on there? I cant follow it for some reason and I am hoping its not just 4/4- anyone?

Much of the song sounds like just quarters on the hats but there is so much other noise from a ride cymbal that I cant count to. What do you think it is?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-27-2012, 01:19 AM
Winston_Wolf's Avatar
Winston_Wolf Winston_Wolf is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Fayetteville, NC
Posts: 1,838
Default Re: Dire Straits- Sultans of swing time sig

Yep, it's 4/4 - the open hi hat and ride cymbal accents are on the upbeats but otherwise it's just a straight rock beat.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-27-2012, 01:23 AM
Henchworm Henchworm is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: California
Posts: 7
Default Re: Dire Straits- Sultans of swing time sig

It is in 4/4 time signature.
__________________
Ching-a-ding
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-27-2012, 01:57 AM
haroldo_psf haroldo_psf is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 256
Default Re: Dire Straits- Sultans of swing time sig

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolate View Post
What is going on there? I cant follow it for some reason and I am hoping its not just 4/4- anyone?

Much of the song sounds like just quarters on the hats but there is so much other noise from a ride cymbal that I cant count to. What do you think it is?

by the way, this guy has the transcription for this song here:

http://thedrumninja.com/
__________________
"Rush has been shaking their bottle for 30 years and there is still sauce coming out!" - Jack Black
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-27-2012, 02:32 AM
Bobbytard's Avatar
Bobbytard Bobbytard is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sweden
Posts: 50
Default Re: Dire Straits- Sultans of swing time sig

Sorry, but im stealing the thread a little.

What software does drumninja use for the transcriptions? Looks awesome.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-27-2012, 02:42 AM
Toolate Toolate is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 1,793
Default Re: Dire Straits- Sultans of swing time sig

PLease, steal away, anything to divert attention to my reading.....
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-27-2012, 02:45 AM
Toolate Toolate is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 1,793
Default Re: Dire Straits- Sultans of swing time sig

Bookmarked that Drumninja- could have saved some embarrassment. Thanks for the replies.

The accents and ride cymbal parts were the source of confusion I think
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-27-2012, 03:19 AM
bermuda's Avatar
bermuda bermuda is offline
Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8,426
Default Re: Dire Straits- Sultans of swing time sig

Try this file, I think you'll have the correct answer... :)
Attached Files
File Type: mp3 sultansofswing.mp3 (5.48 MB, 352 views)

Last edited by bermuda; 03-27-2012 at 03:34 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-27-2012, 03:27 AM
bermuda's Avatar
bermuda bermuda is offline
Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8,426
Default Re: Dire Straits- Sultans of swing time sig

Quote:
Originally Posted by haroldo_psf View Post
by the way, this guy has the transcription for this song here:

http://thedrumninja.com/
He probably has a number of accurate transcriptions on his site, but Sultans Of Swing is not among them. Pretty big difference in the parts between the track and his music. I've spotted some other discrepancies as well. Most drummers/bands/producers/audiences wouldn't know the difference, but it's what I do for a living. Just sayin'...

Bermuda
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-27-2012, 01:25 PM
Toolate Toolate is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 1,793
Default Re: Dire Straits- Sultans of swing time sig

Thats crystal clear Bermuda- thanks. Especially like the HH work around 3:27 during the solo. The little double accents in there are so clean. Another 20 years or so and I will be there I think.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-25-2015, 06:51 PM
ryanbairdrums's Avatar
ryanbairdrums ryanbairdrums is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Shenzhen, China
Posts: 15
Default Re: Dire Straits- Sultans of swing time sig

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
Try this file, I think you'll have the correct answer... :)
Bermuda, that file was very useful. Where did you get that?
__________________
Ryan
www.reverbnation.com/ryanbairdrums
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-25-2015, 06:55 PM
mikel mikel is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Midlands. England.
Posts: 2,237
Default Re: Dire Straits- Sultans of swing time sig

This "Simple" song proves its not just what you play, its how and where you play it.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-25-2015, 08:37 PM
bermuda's Avatar
bermuda bermuda is offline
Drummerworld Pro Drummer - Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8,426
Default Re: Dire Straits- Sultans of swing time sig

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanbairdrums View Post
Bermuda, that file was very useful. Where did you get that?
A few years ago, there were a lot of Guitar Hero and Rock Band tracks floating around. In those 'games', you could mix/isolate parts somewhat, so labels often provided submixes of the songs, with drums and bass almost always appearing as solo tracks. Such was the case with Sultans Of Swing. Not every song used on the games was the original however, and some of the remakes sound very convincing. But this one is definitely the real thing.

Bermuda
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-26-2015, 02:34 AM
Icetech's Avatar
Icetech Icetech is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Detroit
Posts: 939
Default Re: Dire Straits- Sultans of swing time sig

As a new drummer some time sigs just throw me for some reason (lazy practice is the reason, i can't lie..) Like in perfect strangers which is a groove i sooo love to play. it switches to 5/4 and i'm all trips.. stumble.. groove.. trip.. WTF!!! quit...
__________________
He boiled for my sins...
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-27-2015, 10:00 AM
Supernoodle Supernoodle is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 86
Default Re: Dire Straits- Sultans of swing time sig

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
A few years ago, there were a lot of Guitar Hero and Rock Band tracks floating around. In those 'games', you could mix/isolate parts somewhat, so labels often provided submixes of the songs, with drums and bass almost always appearing as solo tracks. Such was the case with Sultans Of Swing. Not every song used on the games was the original however, and some of the remakes sound very convincing. But this one is definitely the real thing.

Bermuda
Wow, I bet the original artists didn't like that very much... this is such a classic drum part, so perfect (the whole album has sublime drumming).

You can hear how they recorded some fills separately though!

Thanks for the track bermuda
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-27-2015, 11:04 AM
JustJames's Avatar
JustJames JustJames is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 2,741
Default Re: Dire Straits- Sultans of swing time sig

Pick Withers has just the most wonderful delicacy on the drum kit. His drumming was SUCH an awesome complement to Mark Knopfler's guitar playing. Neither playing anything that was outrageously complex, but both playing parts that were brilliantly conceived.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-27-2015, 11:32 AM
Supernoodle Supernoodle is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 86
Default Re: Dire Straits- Sultans of swing time sig

+1

still, I've always wondered, what is double 4 time!? :)
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-27-2015, 12:57 PM
JustJames's Avatar
JustJames JustJames is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 2,741
Default Re: Dire Straits- Sultans of swing time sig

I've always thought that "double 4 time" was just 4:4 time.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-27-2015, 09:37 PM
Dr_Watso's Avatar
Dr_Watso Dr_Watso is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,628
Default Re: Dire Straits- Sultans of swing time sig

Quote:
Originally Posted by Supernoodle View Post
+1

still, I've always wondered, what is double 4 time!? :)
That just means playing double time, in reference to whatever you're already playing in 4.
__________________
"I always wanted to be remembered for; being honest. Nothing else is worth a damn." - Lemmy
Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2017, 03:03 PM
toresn
This message has been deleted by toresn.
  #20  
Old 12-07-2017, 03:16 PM
Groov-E Groov-E is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 668
Default Re: Dire Straits- Sultans of swing time sig

I went to a Omar Hakim clinic last year and he said he replaced dire strait drummer on the brothers in arms album which was recorded on an island in the atlantic (azores?) while the guy was being treated in Holland for health problems.

Is it possible he also wrote the drum part to sultans ?

That man has the magic touch, what a musician !
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 12-07-2017, 03:23 PM
mpthomson mpthomson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 369
Default Re: Dire Straits- Sultans of swing time sig

Quote:
Originally Posted by Groov-E View Post
I went to a Omar Hakim clinic last year and he said he replaced dire strait drummer on the brothers in arms album which was recorded on an island in the atlantic (azores?) while the guy was being treated in Holland for health problems.

Is it possible he also wrote the drum part to sultans ?

That man has the magic touch, what a musician !
No it isn't. Dire Straits at the Time of Sultans of Swing were relative unknowns (though very talented ones) and used no session musicians.

The drummer Omar Hakim replaced was Terry Williams during the recording on Montserrat, apparently the only bit of Terry Williams that remains on the record is the drum intro of Money For Nothing, everything else is Mr. Hakim. He was replaced not for health reasons, but more because his drumming style didn't suit the record and production rather than for health issues.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 12-07-2017, 05:24 PM
Merlin5's Avatar
Merlin5 Merlin5 is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: London UK
Posts: 680
Default Re: Dire Straits- Sultans of swing time sig

Hmm, I thought everyone knew Sultans of Swing is in 21/16 for the first 20 measures, followed by several measures in 17/8 and ending in 5/4. There's no 4/4 at all.













:D
__________________
No drums no life, know drums know life...
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 12-07-2017, 06:22 PM
Groov-E Groov-E is offline
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 668
Default Re: Dire Straits- Sultans of swing time sig

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpthomson View Post
No it isn't. Dire Straits at the Time of Sultans of Swing were relative unknowns (though very talented ones) and used no session musicians.

The drummer Omar Hakim replaced was Terry Williams during the recording on Montserrat, apparently the only bit of Terry Williams that remains on the record is the drum intro of Money For Nothing, everything else is Mr. Hakim. He was replaced not for health reasons, but more because his drumming style didn't suit the record and production rather than for health issues.
That's why I love this forum.

Thanks for the info !
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 12-07-2017, 11:41 PM
JustJames's Avatar
JustJames JustJames is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 2,741
Default Re: Dire Straits- Sultans of swing time sig

Quote:
Originally Posted by Groov-E View Post
I went to a Omar Hakim clinic last year and he said he replaced dire strait drummer on the brothers in arms album which was recorded on an island in the atlantic (azores?) while the guy was being treated in Holland for health problems.

Is it possible he also wrote the drum part to sultans ?
Not even remotely...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dire_S...bum)#Personnel
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 12-08-2017, 03:35 AM
drumming sort of person's Avatar
drumming sort of person drumming sort of person is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 2,075
Default Re: Dire Straits- Sultans of swing time sig

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin5 View Post
Hmm, I thought everyone knew Sultans of Swing is in 21/16 for the first 20 measures, followed by several measures in 17/8 and ending in 5/4. There's no 4/4 at all.
Pretty sure the whole tune is in 1/1.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 12-08-2017, 04:15 AM
Dr_Watso's Avatar
Dr_Watso Dr_Watso is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 5,628
Default Re: Dire Straits- Sultans of swing time sig

Quote:
Originally Posted by drumming sort of person View Post
Pretty sure the whole tune is in 1/1.
That's ridiculous. Pretty sure it's 4/1 time.
__________________
"I always wanted to be remembered for; being honest. Nothing else is worth a damn." - Lemmy
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-08-2017, 06:13 AM
DrumEatDrum's Avatar
DrumEatDrum DrumEatDrum is offline
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 9,143
Default Re: Dire Straits- Sultans of swing time sig

Quote:
Originally Posted by Groov-E View Post
I went to a Omar Hakim clinic last year and he said he replaced dire strait drummer on the brothers in arms album which was recorded on an island in the atlantic (azores?) while the guy was being treated in Holland for health problems.

Is it possible he also wrote the drum part to sultans ?

That man has the magic touch, what a musician !
Omar did record with Dire Straits:

But on a different album.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brothers_in_Arms_(album)

Quote:
then-permanent drummer Terry Williams' performance was thought unsuitable for the desired sound of the album during the first month of the recording sessions. He was therefore temporarily replaced by one of the most popular jazz session drummers of the time, Omar Hakim, who re-recorded the album's drum parts in two days and then left. Terry Williams' improvised crescendo at the beginning of "Money for Nothing" was used on the record. Williams would be back in the band for the music videos and the tour.[11]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dire_S...tional_success

Quote:
drummer Terry Williams was temporarily replaced by jazz session drummer, Omar Hakim, who recorded his drum parts for the entire album during a two-day stay before leaving for other commitments.[27] Both Hakim and Williams are credited on the album,[26]
But the song Sultan's of Swing is not on that album. It was released 7 prior to Omar's involvement.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off




All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Bernhard Castiglioni's DRUMMERWORLD.com