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  #1  
Old 05-30-2016, 07:46 PM
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Ajax Ajax is offline
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Default Security against theft/Documentation

Hi guys,

After reading about a poor memberīs experience of loses his stuff due to theft, this has kinda spurred me on to insure all my gear which something I have been meaning to do for about a year now. Oops. but say, you are robbed, how do you go about logging stuff you have?

I guess I need to do an inventory of valuables but how would I do this as I dont think I still have receipts for stuff so what other kind of documentation can one provide? Would taking pics of gear suffice? I mean, what if you later found your stuff turn up in a pawn shop after being robbed? How would you go about getting it back as I can't really see any serial numbers on my kit or cymbals.

Clueless.
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  #2  
Old 05-30-2016, 07:54 PM
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bermuda bermuda is offline
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Default Re: Security against theft/Documentation

I've kept complete records of all of my gear, including specific model #s, when and where I got the gear, finish, size, the date of manufacture if known, serial numbers of course, and photos of the item, badge/s.n. and logo if applicable (such as a cymbal stamp.)

If something is in a special location - my storage, Al's storage, on loan - I also note that. So if my locker got cleaned out, I could identify every drum, cymbal stand, pedal, etc that was in there.

Bermuda
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  #3  
Old 05-30-2016, 08:05 PM
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Default Re: Security against theft/Documentation

OK, but as a complete newbie sans receipts, where else would be a good place to start?
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Old 05-30-2016, 08:08 PM
KamaK KamaK is offline
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Default Re: Security against theft/Documentation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
OK, but as a complete newbie sans receipts, where else would be a good place to start?
Grab your phone. Start taking pics. Badges and serial numbers are the most important.
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Old 05-30-2016, 08:09 PM
running running is offline
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Default Re: Security against theft/Documentation

Quote:
Originally Posted by bermuda View Post
I've kept complete records of all of my gear, including specific model #s, when and where I got the gear, finish, size, the date of manufacture if known, serial numbers of course, and photos of the item, badge/s.n. and logo if applicable (such as a cymbal stamp.)
Great advice for OP (and everyone else!) moving forward. Being meticulous about this kind of stuff doesn't take too long and saves a ton of time come tax / accident / burglary time. I take a picture or screenshot of all receipts and upload them to a folder on Google drive with necessary info in the filename.

In terms of your current situation OP, part of it depends on what your specific policy requires. You should be able to call and speak to a claims agent, and tell them that you just purchased a policy and want to make sure you take the necessary steps to make their job easier if something happens. (Frame it like this and they're more likely to give you good advice.)

Generally something like a spreadsheet with a list of all your gear and a photo with a visible placard that has the name of the item, your name, serial number if applicable and the date on it is usually enough to prove ownership. If the gear is vintage or otherwise limited in a way that significantly raises its value, your broker will likely have some policy governing what you need to do to make sure it is properly insured.

edit: also one thing I've seen trip folks up: make sure you understand where (physically) you are covered under your policy. Depending on the policy and your status as a musician (pro or am), you may or may not have coverage for drum gear when gigging out. Make sure you're covered everywhere you bring your things!
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  #6  
Old 05-30-2016, 08:21 PM
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Default Re: Security against theft/Documentation

Yeah...I bought my cymbals online thank god so I am able to obtain a copy of receipts from my purchases history so will get more information when I speak to the insurance broker. Copies of documents and pics uploaded to google drive will also be a good idea.

KamaK Cheers, done!
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  #7  
Old 05-30-2016, 08:34 PM
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Default Re: Security against theft/Documentation

This is just the post I needed to see. I"ll be taking the next few weekends to take inventory. I do have a question.

I've gotten almost everything I own second hand. I really don't have many receipts at all except for a few hardware items and a cymbal or two. whats the best way to prove that I have ownership when documenting everything?
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  #8  
Old 05-30-2016, 08:47 PM
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Default Re: Security against theft/Documentation

Date stamped pics?

Iīve currently just taken pics of my kit...including closeups of badges and serial numbers (although worryingly, my Istanbul ride seems to only have a removable sticker on the underside) and managed to get a hold of copies of invoices which I've now uploaded all together on a file to my online drive. Iīm a bit OCD with clutter and don't hold on to receipts very long so I will be taking pics of everything from now on and adding them to the folder.

I cant seem to find any serial numbers on my ludwig kit though...
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  #9  
Old 05-30-2016, 09:14 PM
New Tricks New Tricks is offline
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Default Re: Security against theft/Documentation

If you want answers, ask the right people. Your insurance agent will tell you exactly what they require as well as how they handle depreciation.

My guess is, they wont require much......until you make a claim :)

Personally, I've never been an insurance kind of guy. It seems like a sucker bet.

I chose to get robbed once in a while as opposed to every month :)
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  #10  
Old 11-14-2017, 11:09 PM
Lee-Bro Lee-Bro is offline
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Default Re: Security against theft/Documentation

Bringing this one back from the dead as I'd like to hear from you that have added your own inventory or identification numbers to your gear. I've seen those damn-near-impossible-to-remove metallic type stickers on gear but for me that's not really my thing.

In addition to pictures and documenting order numbers, serial numbers, dates of purchase, etc., I'm looking at buying a custom rubber stamp and marking all my gear with invisible (black light) ink in a inconspicuous place so that: 1) If the gear doesn't have engraved serial numbers, it'll still be marked as mine, and 2) If the gear has badges or labels that can be removed, it'll still be marked as mine. Here's the type of stamp I'm considering: https://www.rubberstampchamp.com/des...-050X200&qty=1

Anyone doing something similar or have a better idea?
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  #11  
Old 11-14-2017, 11:17 PM
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GruntersDad GruntersDad is online now
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Default Re: Security against theft/Documentation

Works for we folks in the line of hurricanes as well. I ran around in September and took a picture of everything I owned just to have on hand. Put the photos on DVD's and mailed one to my sister
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  #12  
Old 11-14-2017, 11:56 PM
DrumWild DrumWild is offline
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Default Re: Security against theft/Documentation

I haven't yet found an insurer, and even tried Clarion [they won't touch my guitar collection]. I haven't yet decided on AAA, but they said something interesting.

That is, for any piece valued at over $1,000, you should have a receipt for replacement.

The problem with this, besides receipts disappearing, is that sometimes the replacement cost might be more than what you pay. With my guitars, there were sale prices, student discounts, and other things happening that lower the number on the purchase receipt.

Went to my guitar store, and they gave me "proposal receipts" or "proposal estimates" that show the actual replacement value of the instrument. These proposal receipts are good for up to one year, and they do come with an expiration date.

So if you don't have a receipt, and you bought something from a music store, ask them about this. They might run them off for you. My store did not charge me, but I'm a regular customer.

As for things bought used, maybe your store will help you out with this. It's worth a shot.

But I'm leaning toward no insurance and just taking things as they go. Installed my own security cameras, and take precautions. There are no guarantees.

The database I've made will save me money, in that I won't be buying things to replace things I already own but have forgotten. That's how I ended up with three GIBRALTAR rack mount systems, when I only need one.
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  #13  
Old 11-15-2017, 01:56 AM
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Jeremy Bender Jeremy Bender is offline
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Default Re: Security against theft/Documentation

I asked my homeowner's insurance agent about this last year, his response was "yes we can insure your gear, how much would you need?" I told him roughly 20k would be a safe amount (gotta replace it if it's gone). He then informs me all I'll need to do is get each piece of gear appraised.
Each piece as in every single stand, stick bag, cymbal, etc... I told him forget it. The appraisal fee would probably cost more than half the gear.
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  #14  
Old 11-15-2017, 02:43 AM
DrumWild DrumWild is offline
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Default Re: Security against theft/Documentation

My homeowner's is with AAA. When I asked them about insuring instruments, they were taken aback by it. As the rep was trying to find some info on it, he says:

"We can insure valuables up to $1,000."


Oh boy. Just wait until you hear about these musical instruments.
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  #15  
Old 11-15-2017, 08:21 AM
Brian Brian is offline
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Default Re: Security against theft/Documentation

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrumWild View Post
My homeowner's is with AAA. When I asked them about insuring instruments, they were taken aback by it. As the rep was trying to find some info on it, he says:

"We can insure valuables up to $1,000."


Oh boy. Just wait until you hear about these musical instruments.
each drum cymbal etc., is a musical instrument/valuable
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  #16  
Old 11-15-2017, 08:55 AM
williamsbclontz williamsbclontz is offline
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Default Re: Security against theft/Documentation

I had a Yamaha RC kit stolen from me about 2 years ago, along with a full bag of hardware and a complete set of paiste cymbals. I had pictures but no serial numbers unfortunately. However the insurance company was extremely helpful and logged everything that was stolen without any complications. They only covered about 2/3 of the cost though, and I had a $1,000 deductible. It's definitely better than nothing, but still was a big loss

I ended up finding the cymbals at a music store a few months later. The store bought them from the guy for like $100 total and didn't even ask to see the guys ID. They had the cymbals on sale for less than half of what they were worth. I called the detective working on my case because I hoped he could track the guy down, but he ended up confiscating the cymbals and I never saw them again. The worst part is I would've been better off if I just bought them back from the music store

But it's all good, because I have another RC kit now and a set of Constantinoples :)
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  #17  
Old 11-15-2017, 11:34 AM
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mikyok mikyok is offline
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Default Re: Security against theft/Documentation

Getting gear stolen is the worst feeling ever.

The police in the UK don't give a shit about theft and usually blame you for having something stolen in the first place. They know everyone has insurance so they don't have to bother. So you get the double whammy of paying an excess and then your insurance going up the following year!

I had a bag of cymbals nicked in 2004, all top end Zildjian/Paiste. My mate had his strat nicked too which was 1981ish rare finish. I fondly remember trawling through every pawn shop, music shop for a week giving them the crime number and the list of equipment that had been stolen...not!

I was very very lucky that the person who stole the cymbals didn't know the value and they turned up 6 months later smelling like they'd been thrown in a bush and forgotten about. The place that found them knew who'd stole them but wouldn't tell me. I was grateful to get the lids back. My mate has never seen his strat since. He knows the serial and has said if he saw it he'd take it back.

He had insurance and got a nice custom shop strat to replace it with the money but how do you replace something that's no longer made?
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  #18  
Old 11-15-2017, 03:30 PM
DrumWild DrumWild is offline
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Default Re: Security against theft/Documentation

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikyok View Post
...how do you replace something that's no longer made?
That's the hard part. Maybe a replacement value can be paid out, but that item cannot be replaced. Half of my guitars are limited edition pieces that are difficult to find.

Lost some drum gear to theft, and one of the items was a 22" Sabian Prototype ride cymbal. Won't be hearing that bell again.
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  #19  
Old 11-15-2017, 04:33 PM
Lee-Bro Lee-Bro is offline
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Default Re: Security against theft/Documentation

Ok, so I originally posted asking if anyone has marked their gear themselves and was looking for additional ideas outside of mine of using invisible ink. I'm still looking for other suggestions and appreciate and sympathize w/ those who have had gear stolen.

As a side note, I've reached out to Clarion and MuiscPro and a couple others about getting a policy. I've used MusicPro services before for event insurance but it appears they don't have that division anymore. I have NO connection to any of these companies whatsoever. That being said, here are some links to see if they may be a fit for you:

MusicPro Insurance - https://www.musicproinsurance.com/

Clarion Insurance - http://www.clarionins.com/

Anderson Musical Insurance - https://www.anderson-group.com/

Heritage Insurance - http://www.musicins.com/

One thing to keep in mind is exactly what type of coverage are you buying:
  • Actual Cash Value
  • Replacement Cost
  • Agreed Value
  • Diminished Value

It's very well possible to have multiple policies for different classifications of gear -such as instruments which aren't made any more vs. an every day boom cymbal stand.
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  #20  
Old 11-15-2017, 05:12 PM
DrumWild DrumWild is offline
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Default Re: Security against theft/Documentation

I like the invisible ink idea, and might do that. Inside the drums would be good place to stamp. The guitars that have removable access panels can get stamped on the inside panel. Then, I can note in the database where everything is stamped.

Will check out some of those companies. Clarion turned me down, based on the questionnaire you fill out on their site.

I think one of the things that insurers don't like about my situation is that I have TWO locations, with some gear in storage, and most of it at home. My storage unit sold me a policy that will cover the drum hardware, cymbals, and guitar cases in storage [$10,000]. But I think that just having the storage unit is causing trouble.

It's kind of like your auto insurance dropping you because you own a motorcycle, even though they don't insure the motorcycle. Clarion doesn't want to touch what's in my apartment because of the storage unit. That's my suspicion, anyway.

For the next place I try, I think that I'll just not mention the storage unit. No reason, really.
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  #21  
Old 11-15-2017, 06:02 PM
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PorkPieGuy PorkPieGuy is offline
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Default Re: Security against theft/Documentation

We use an inland marine policy:

https://www.statefarm.com/small-busi...obile-property

It covers "Commercially used photo equipment and musical instruments."


Take pictures of all of your stuff. Whenever you file, give the insurance company the RETAIL PRICE not the street price. If you are insuring drums, get the retail price of each individual drum, not for whole set. For my USA Pork Pies, I submitted their price sheet that's published on their website with my drums' specific sizes.

The insurance is pretty darn cheap. Everything I take on the road with me, in addition to a couple of guitars, I have insured.
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  #22  
Old 11-15-2017, 06:11 PM
DrumWild DrumWild is offline
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Default Re: Security against theft/Documentation

Quote:
Originally Posted by PorkPieGuy View Post
It covers "Commercially used photo equipment and musical instruments."
This reminds me of another open issue, regarding whether or not the gear is taken out and used for gigs. So many confusing conversations.

I've answered "no" to all of that, since I'm not gigging anymore. But if I take the drums out of the house, to a rehearsal room for a few hours, then back, am I voiding my insurance coverage [if I have it]?

Has this been an issue for anyone who does have insurance? Is there different coverage for gigging gear? Premium increase?
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