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  #1  
Old 11-07-2017, 08:11 AM
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PHIL2016 PHIL2016 is offline
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Default DRUM SHELLS: Ply/Solid/Stave

How do the different shell types compare in terms of tone, response, tuning range and playability?
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Old 11-07-2017, 09:21 AM
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Default Re: DRUM SHELLS: Ply/Solid/Stave

That's an interesting question. That question has not been asked 1,259 times before on this forum.
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Last edited by ineedaclutch; 11-07-2017 at 09:22 AM. Reason: I forgot times in my cheeky reply
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Old 11-07-2017, 12:51 PM
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Default Re: DRUM SHELLS: Ply/Solid/Stave

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Originally Posted by ineedaclutch View Post
That's an interesting question. That question has not been asked 1,259 times before on this forum.
Yeah, this is the topic that has been going on for years. You can make 10 drums of the same construction/wood/thickness and one or two of them will sound different somehow.

I've tried segmented and stave snares, honestly, didn't like them. Maybe it was the bearing edge angle, maybe it was the wood or the thickness of the shell but I've never played a stave/segmented drum that I liked (KD purpleheart, Brady Jarrah, Guru Ovangkol)

Personally I believe they're engineered to sound "different" to ply drums so it's always very difficult to compare, especially given the amount of hardware also affects the sound.

A veritable minefield, but one that I've managed to come through, albeit not entirely unscathed :-)

I only play ply drums now
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  #4  
Old 11-07-2017, 02:44 PM
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Default Re: DRUM SHELLS: Ply/Solid/Stave

In my experience, a stave or block drum will have a slightly more pronounced fundamental note than a ply drum. Some people prefer that sound. Personally, I find it annoying, like a sine wave being triggered the same time you hit your snare drum.
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Old 11-07-2017, 04:10 PM
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Default Re: DRUM SHELLS: Ply/Solid/Stave

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Originally Posted by Ghostnote View Post
In my experience, a stave or block drum will have a slightly more pronounced fundamental note than a ply drum. Some people prefer that sound. Personally, I find it annoying, like a sine wave being triggered the same time you hit your snare drum.
^ this

I find it annoying too. I believe that trying to make a drum sound more "musical" has an adverse affect on it's ability to sound like a drum.
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Old 11-07-2017, 05:15 PM
Elven Bones Elven Bones is offline
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Default Re: DRUM SHELLS: Ply/Solid/Stave

I would give anyone $100 if they could identify, beyond statistical chance, a drum's build method in a double blind listening test.
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  #7  
Old 11-07-2017, 05:41 PM
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Default Re: DRUM SHELLS: Ply/Solid/Stave

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Originally Posted by Elven Bones View Post
I would give anyone $100 if they could identify, beyond statistical chance, a drum's build method in a double blind listening test.
All other things being equal, I guarantee itís easy for a trained ear to hear the difference up close in a quiet room. LOL But thatís not saying much...
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Old 11-08-2017, 01:23 PM
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Default Re: DRUM SHELLS: Ply/Solid/Stave

Well, if we are going to beat the dead horse.....I might as well give it a whack as well....

In my snare rotation I have a DW Craviotto solid Maple shelled snare in 5.25" and I also have a nice stave walnut in 7" that I built up out of a Daville shell.

The stave walnut has a nice dry tone and since the wall thickness is only ~1/4" or so it responds to tuning etc. like many of my ply drums. The DW I find has a really pronounced wood crack to it, which is great for some applications and obnoxious for others. I built up a thin Keller shelled maple 6" drum that I would say has one of the most versatile tuning ranges of a snare that I have played.

So I agree with the others that some of these non-ply constructed drums tend to have a much more pronounced "note" to them and either it works for you or doesn't.

That note doesn't really mellow with tuning, it just either sounds like it is drunk (low tune) or was kicked in the balls (high tune) but either way it can be hard to get away from that fundamental.
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Old 11-08-2017, 01:24 PM
jornthedrummer jornthedrummer is offline
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Default Re: DRUM SHELLS: Ply/Solid/Stave

After 60+ years can it really be that a Fender Stratocaster, Telecaster or a Gibson Les Paul are the best sounding guitars? Probably not, but itís the sounds we are used to. So those Ďstandardí instruments dominates recording until today.
Itís the same with the drums. So the ply drums still rule.
The evidence is also in the sample libraries. How fast are the sample libraries of modern steambent or stave drums selling compared to ply and vintage ply drum? The answer is slow.

Iím not taking sides(own all of them), just stating reality.
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  #10  
Old 11-09-2017, 03:50 AM
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Default Re: DRUM SHELLS: Ply/Solid/Stave

Snare drums are like golf clubs. Some do a few different things and some are more specialized.
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  #11  
Old 11-09-2017, 03:55 AM
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Default Re: DRUM SHELLS: Ply/Solid/Stave

Exactly. I played once in a 2 club tournament. Most chose a 7 iron and a putter.
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  #12  
Old 11-09-2017, 02:15 PM
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Default Re: DRUM SHELLS: Ply/Solid/Stave

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
At the risk of being flamed, I'll chime in here. That pronounced fundamental is certainly a common character in many solid shell snares. You quite rightly point out that it's not for everyone, or every situation. Often, generic is sought, & there's a huge selection of drums that will deliver that.

Comments here refer to snares. Most player's experiences of solid shell drums are limited to snares, so it's understandable that's their main reference point. The more prominent fundamental characteristic, when applied to toms & bass drums however, offers a very different end affect. All toms & bass drums produce a note (pitch) of sorts, that's usually desirable, so a more pronounced note is often beneficial. It certainly generates more character & "body" in the resolved sound, & that tone typically has more of an identity in the mix too.
I asked that this thread was re-opened so that we could hear balanced views that were not biased towards Guru.

To be fair to this thread, I think it would do better if you didn't chime in on this one because your opinions are the ones that are everywhere.

We need some opinions that are not from someone using this forum to sell his drums.

But you've just gone and sh@t all over it, thanks for that *rolleyes*
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  #13  
Old 11-09-2017, 02:38 PM
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Default Re: DRUM SHELLS: Ply/Solid/Stave

This thread was opened, I think, to gain info on drum construction and not for a vehicle for you to attack another member. Andy had been on this forum forever, and has offered insight on many more subjects than his own drum company. Andy, Bernhard, and I have discussed the boundaries as to content on his threads and he has not wavered. If you have relevent info to add to the thread fine, but openly attacking anyone will not be tolerated. Thanks.
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  #14  
Old 11-09-2017, 03:14 PM
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Default Re: DRUM SHELLS: Ply/Solid/Stave

When you have a user on ignore there's an option to view their post. I really regret selecting that option for this post.
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  #15  
Old 11-09-2017, 03:48 PM
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Default Re: DRUM SHELLS: Ply/Solid/Stave

Johno, just an FYI. You're misguided, negative posts about Andy and Guru Drums will always fall on def ears and continue to hurt what credibility you have due to the MOUNTAIN of knowledge, ethics, character and credibility that Andy has always displayed. Not only on this forum but for the whole drumming community.
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  #16  
Old 11-09-2017, 08:47 PM
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Default Re: DRUM SHELLS: Ply/Solid/Stave

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Originally Posted by R2112 View Post
Johno, just an FYI. You're misguided, negative posts about Andy and Guru Drums will always fall on def ears and continue to hurt what credibility you have due to the MOUNTAIN of knowledge, ethics, character and credibility that Andy has always displayed. Not only on this forum but for the whole drumming community.
Well said R2112!

I really appreciate Andy's contribution on Drummerworld.
He has great knowledge and his observations are spot-on.
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  #17  
Old 11-09-2017, 08:54 PM
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Default Re: DRUM SHELLS: Ply/Solid/Stave

I also really appreciate Andy's input. I always enjoy learning from people smarter and wiser than me, especially in regards to music and drums.
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Old 11-09-2017, 09:50 PM
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Default Re: DRUM SHELLS: Ply/Solid/Stave

I can’t get over how quickly our likes and dislikes become an attack fest or bash fest on this and other forums. Don’t like DW lugs, so they are the worst drums on the planet and a John Good can do nothing right. Don’t like the sound of, but most likely can’t afford stave or a segmented, then it’s time to bash those makers! Sigh!!!

Well said R2112...

Last edited by AzHeat; 11-09-2017 at 10:16 PM.
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  #19  
Old 11-09-2017, 09:52 PM
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Default Re: DRUM SHELLS: Ply/Solid/Stave

I work under the assumption we are all functioning adults here until proven otherwise and I assume positive intent with the content that Andy has provided over the years.

Sure people can read into his posts what they want and get their fur all matted up over the fact his opinions and influence are also reflected in his products......but as adults people can and should also do their own research and decide how much of everyone's opinon is worth listening to based on its own merit.

If people find Andy's posts to be a problem, don't read them I guess.
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  #20  
Old 11-09-2017, 10:15 PM
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Default Re: DRUM SHELLS: Ply/Solid/Stave

Quote:
Originally Posted by River19 View Post

That note doesn't really mellow with tuning, it just either sounds like it is drunk (low tune) or was kicked in the balls (high tune) but either way it can be hard to get away from that fundamental.
I'm not sure if this is the best or worst description I've read about this topic, but it certainly made me laugh.
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  #21  
Old 11-09-2017, 10:31 PM
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Default Re: DRUM SHELLS: Ply/Solid/Stave

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnoWorld View Post
I asked that this thread was re-opened so that we could hear balanced views that were not biased towards Guru.

To be fair to this thread, I think it would do better if you didn't chime in on this one because your opinions are the ones that are everywhere.

We need some opinions that are not from someone using this forum to sell his drums.

But you've just gone and sh@t all over it, thanks for that *rolleyes*
Is something really bad happening in your life? Andy is one of the nicest and most knowledgeable people on this forum. His kits sound amazing. His isolation mounts are genius. You have absolutely no excuse to act this way.
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  #22  
Old 11-09-2017, 10:42 PM
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Default Re: DRUM SHELLS: Ply/Solid/Stave

1. JohnoWorld, pull your foot out of your mouth.
2. Andy, respond away... you're the largest font of knowledge this joint has.
3. Everyone else, carry on.
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  #23  
Old 11-09-2017, 11:06 PM
Captain Bash Captain Bash is offline
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Default Re: DRUM SHELLS: Ply/Solid/Stave

I own and regularly interchange my set up between a maple ply kit (Yamaha, MCA) and a maple stave (Gary Noonan) depending on gig. I use the ply kit if I want a neutral sound and require a tone that is broad but rather undefined.

Conversely the stave kit excells where tonal character is required and clarity is desired. The stave kit has a shorter note length as compared to the ply,
But for me this shorter note is an advantage as I don’t have to apply dampening tape or moon gels to toms.

One important thing is that the stave kit has a much broader tuning range and sounds good to me and others at every tension. In contrast every ply kit I have ever played (Ludwig, Gretsch, DW, Premier, Pearl etc ) all have just one, two or if you are lucky three tuning sweet spots.

There is no better or worse just different. In most situations I take the stave kit simply because it’s more fun to play.
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  #24  
Old 11-10-2017, 12:10 AM
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Default Re: DRUM SHELLS: Ply/Solid/Stave

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bash View Post
I own and regularly interchange my set up between a maple ply kit (Yamaha, MCA) and a maple stave (Gary Noonan) depending on gig. I use the ply kit if I want a neutral sound and require a tone that is broad but rather undefined.

Conversely the stave kit excells where tonal character is required and clarity is desired. The stave kit has a shorter note length as compared to the ply,
But for me this shorter note is an advantage as I donít have to apply dampening tape or moon gels to toms.

One important thing is that the stave kit has a much broader tuning range and sounds good to me and others at every tension. In contrast every ply kit I have ever played (Ludwig, Gretsch, DW, Premier, Pearl etc ) all have just one, two or if you are lucky three tuning sweet spots.

There is no better or worse just different. In most situations I take the stave kit simply because itís more fun to play.
These have been my observations as well with the difference between stave and ply. Those are two nice kits you mentioned. I've always wanted to play a Noonan kit. Not very many around my neck of the woods. I've seen videos of Ash Soan playing his 12x7 Purpleheart Noonan snare. That snare always sounds amazing!
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Old 11-10-2017, 05:47 AM
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Default Re: DRUM SHELLS: Ply/Solid/Stave

Well, judging from the responses, i got a good idea of what to expect, I have an old oak stave shell snare drum coming my way shortly, the snares that Chris Brady used to make gives me sort of an idea as to how it will sound as well, thanks for the input, the responses have been both entertaining and informative, this will be my first experience in owing such a drum!
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  #26  
Old 11-10-2017, 08:29 PM
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Default Re: DRUM SHELLS: Ply/Solid/Stave

Please post photos when it arrives!
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  #27  
Old 11-11-2017, 03:35 PM
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Jeff Almeyda Jeff Almeyda is offline
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Default Re: DRUM SHELLS: Ply/Solid/Stave

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnoWorld View Post
I asked that this thread was re-opened so that we could hear balanced views that were not biased towards Guru.

To be fair to this thread, I think it would do better if you didn't chime in on this one because your opinions are the ones that are everywhere.

We need some opinions that are not from someone using this forum to sell his drums.

But you've just gone and sh@t all over it, thanks for that *rolleyes*
From this post alone, i can tell that you're a second or third rate drummer. Andy is one of the reasons I still visit this place.

Andy's opinions are everywhere? I've been playing drums in NY on a pro level for 25 years. Andy has done more actual time studying the factors that affect drum sound than anyone at the big name companies. The fact that he shares the info with us is one of the reasons that I still visit this forum and also convinced me to buy a Guru kit.

You sound like a dumb kid or a miserable 40 year old.
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  #28  
Old 11-12-2017, 11:39 PM
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Default Re: DRUM SHELLS: Ply/Solid/Stave

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnoWorld View Post
I asked that this thread was re-opened so that we could hear balanced views that were not biased towards Guru.

To be fair to this thread, I think it would do better if you didn't chime in on this one because your opinions are the ones that are everywhere.

We need some opinions that are not from someone using this forum to sell his drums.

But you've just gone and sh@t all over it, thanks for that *rolleyes*
Next time you accuse a DW member for using the forum to sell drums, at least choose a post that can be viewed as one that would at least support your claim. I reviewed Andy’s post and it wasn’t anything close to marketing.
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  #29  
Old 11-13-2017, 02:32 AM
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Default Re: DRUM SHELLS: Ply/Solid/Stave

Iíve never found Andyís responces anything but informative.

Thank you sir.
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  #30  
Old 11-13-2017, 03:41 AM
Groov-E Groov-E is offline
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Default Re: DRUM SHELLS: Ply/Solid/Stave

Thank you Andy for sharing your knowledge on this forum.

This one opinion everyone has shut down is but one miserable comment in a sea of peace and goodwill (as so often expressed here).

I know you have the faculty to do this exercice on your own seeing all the respect you get from others on this very thread, but I just wanted to say it out loud one more time.

Thanks.
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  #31  
Old 11-14-2017, 02:27 PM
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Default Re: DRUM SHELLS: Ply/Solid/Stave

Modern drummer recently did a couple things on this subject an article by Russ Miller and a podcast episode (117) touched on this subject. Worth a look and listen if your interested.

Disclaimer: I'm not at all affiliated with them, just recently listened to the episode.
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