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  #41  
Old 11-12-2017, 03:59 PM
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Default Re: Weird eBay seller

Quote:
Originally Posted by taiko View Post
Yeah, that's the American way. The more it costs, the more the business person is likely to show interest in the customer. It's not about pride in one's work or caring about the customer--it's about cash. And it's all short-term. I've spent a lot of time in a country where they would give you the same outstanding service for the orphaned tom that they would give for the $5,000 DW kit. It's about providing service and thinking about others and having pride in what one does. And in the long run, I'll go back to the person who provides great service over the orphaned tom again and again. If I were Bo, the next time Orphaned Tom Guy put something up for sale, even if I wanted it there'd be no chance I'd even think about buying from him.

Parts of this thread have really reminded me of why I so dislike American business practices.
There's definitely a code in Japan, not practiced elsewhere. The customer is valuable there, period. It used to be like that here too, but we don't operate by the same code. Do onto others as you would have them do on to you no longer applies. One of our politicians said it best...."Do onto them as they would do you!" Translation, screw them, before they screw you.

Bo wasn't dealing with a legitimate business either, so no sure it applies. He was dealing with some schmuck like me who discovered eBay offers buyer protection, but in no way seller protection. They are pretty good about discovering fraudulent activity on a macro level, but not even interested on a micro level. You simply have no protection at all. I've been on eBay since 2002 and the ONLY transactions that have ever gone bad are the buyers who waffled. If they asked too many questions, it was best to just leave them, because you'll hear from them again and not in a good way.

The guy could have responded better, but again, he's not American business. Just some schmo trying to sell a drum. Maybe even a hot drum, you'll never know! Definitely could be why he was "jumpy."
  #42  
Old 11-12-2017, 04:06 PM
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Default Re: Weird eBay seller

The problem is that this incident has NOTHING to do with "American business practices". It has to do with ONE experience between ONE buyer and ONE seller.

The buyer (Bo) asked whether or not the seller was "weird" because he preferred not to wait for Bo to check with his "wrap guy". Many of us, myself included, feel that Bo's request was a little out of the ordinary for a "buy it now" sale on ebay, since typically "buy it now" means buy it NOW. The guy even cut Bo slack on his asking price, and answered a few questions. The deal went sour when Bo asked for MORE time while he waited for verification from his "wrap guy". I have spent some time on ebay selling and buying, and this is NOT typical behavior. See item, check on specifics, BUY item...

Bo was not "wrong" for asking but the buyer was not "wrong" for refusing either. Rude, maybe, but not wrong for wanting to move along.

To somehow chalk this experience up to "American business practices" is insulting and unecessarily critical of millions of Americans who sell "stuff" with integrity on eBay and elsewhere everyday...

Frankly, I am getting sick and tired of the whole "America is evil" propaganda that has overtaken our culture and I'm going to kick back where I can.

Now, get off of my lawn!
  #43  
Old 11-12-2017, 04:16 PM
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Default Re: Weird eBay seller

Mongrel,

Just in case you're comment is directed to me. I clearly stated this was a guy selling and not a business. I've had my run ins with eBay, but that doesn't include every business. Just don't want to be classified as one of those...
  #44  
Old 11-12-2017, 04:35 PM
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Default Re: Weird eBay seller

My post is directed any anyone who wants to use this incident as an opportunity to bash "American Business" or "America" in general. Who attempts to further a stereotype of ALL American businesses or business people as being greedy and heartless towards their customers. Those who have bought into the lie that there is an American business "mindset" that is rotten to the core, only seeks the almighty dollar, and willfully crushes guys like Bo Eder for sport.

To THIS I cry "foul". It is a crock, largely manufactured for entertainment purposes by Hollywood and it runs over every legitimate business-whether large corporation or local coffee shop owner. The truth is-there are good and bad business people in every nation and market on earth. Unfortunately, greed is part of the human condition and can rear it's ugly head anyplace and anytime.

To use such broad generalizations as "American business practices" and bring it into this discussion was like I said, insulting and unnecessary...

Now, STAY off of my lawn!

��

Last edited by Mongrel; 11-12-2017 at 04:52 PM. Reason: typos typos typos
  #45  
Old 11-12-2017, 05:49 PM
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Default Re: Weird eBay seller

I buy and sell kits locally as a hobby. It's pretty straight forward. I know what I'm willing to take for a kit. If not, I'll sit on them. My "customer service" is they'll be setup for anyone to play when they come over and I usually include some free stuff ( i.e. extra bass drum head etc etc ).

I have, and will, ship individual drums to the lower 48 with as many photos as it takes for the buyer to see the condition of the item. However, if after negotiating to an agreed price, I expect them to buy the item in short order. In Bo's case, I think it's more a case of "weird ebay buyer". Once you inserted a hold request that involves a third party, I think you're jerking the seller around, especially after already coming to aforementioned agreed price. That's not just "american business" that's "anywhere business". Just sayin'.

Now if it was deal that was being negotiated on here (DW) in what's more of a club setting, I think a buyer would probably be more receptive to a hold request.
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  #46  
Old 11-12-2017, 05:53 PM
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Default Re: Weird eBay seller

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzHeat View Post
There's definitely a code in Japan, not practiced elsewhere. The customer is valuable there, period. It used to be like that here too, but we don't operate by the same code. Do onto others as you would have them do on to you no longer applies. One of our politicians said it best...."Do onto them as they would do you!" Translation, screw them, before they screw you.

Bo wasn't dealing with a legitimate business either, so no sure it applies. He was dealing with some schmuck like me who discovered eBay offers buyer protection, but in no way seller protection. They are pretty good about discovering fraudulent activity on a macro level, but not even interested on a micro level. You simply have no protection at all. I've been on eBay since 2002 and the ONLY transactions that have ever gone bad are the buyers who waffled. If they asked too many questions, it was best to just leave them, because you'll hear from them again and not in a good way.

The guy could have responded better, but again, he's not American business. Just some schmo trying to sell a drum. Maybe even a hot drum, you'll never know! Definitely could be why he was "jumpy."
I agree with this. I don't see this guy as "American business". It's more the responses that I was responding to...

And, you are right, Japan is a very different place when it comes to service. I've spent many years in Japan and there is basically no comparison with American ideas about service. The issue is that in Japan it starts with pride in one's work, rather than how much cash the customer is spending. This leads to a very different idea about service. I don't see that in American businesses a lot of time time and I agree that it used to be much more common here.

Part of the problem in this thread, I think, is whether or not selling on eBay is really a "business". It is for some and not for others.

I raised the idea of the drum being hot, too. I think that's a possibility.
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Last edited by taiko; 11-12-2017 at 06:15 PM.
  #47  
Old 11-12-2017, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: Weird eBay seller

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongrel View Post
My post is directed any anyone who wants to use this incident as an opportunity to bash "American Business" or "America" in general. Who attempts to further a stereotype of ALL American businesses or business people as being greedy and heartless towards their customers. Those who have bought into the lie that there is an American business "mindset" that is rotten to the core, only seeks the almighty dollar, and willfully crushes guys like Bo Eder for sport.

To THIS I cry "foul". It is a crock, largely manufactured for entertainment purposes by Hollywood and it runs over every legitimate business-whether large corporation or local coffee shop owner. The truth is-there are good and bad business people in every nation and market on earth. Unfortunately, greed is part of the human condition and can rear it's ugly head anyplace and anytime.

To use such broad generalizations as "American business practices" and bring it into this discussion was like I said, insulting and unnecessary...

Now, STAY off of my lawn!

��
I did limit the generalization, but you have a point. There are certainly good and bad businesses anywhere and greedy people everywhere. I've travelled all over the place and seen it in many places. So, point taken. What bothered me in this thread is the idea that customer service is somehow associated with how much one spends. I do see that a lot in American businesses and a lot less in some other places I've traveled (and also more in other places I've traveled).

I see nothing insulting about offering an opinion, even if it's wrong. The thread went in the direction of what constitutes customer service and some of the comments seem to convey that customer services is tied to how much one spends.

I also stated that the thread reminded me of why I dislike American business practices. You are right that it was an over-generalization, but I also think there are tendencies in different cultures/societies that shape the way business practices operate and these are evident to some extent here. And I wasn't actually replying to the issue of the tom sale, but more to the comments responding to Bo's question about the tom sale. Those are different issues.

I have no idea what your lawn has to do with this, however. ;-)
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  #48  
Old 11-12-2017, 06:40 PM
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Default Re: Weird eBay seller

Taiko,

Japan is more than pride in oneís work. Itís a culture of excellence to an absolute flaw. You are expected and demanded to perform. Mistreat one customer, and youíre out of a hard to find job. Another thing I never hear mentioned in such topics is that people in Japan literally die at their desks from over work. If they donít work longer or harder than the guy next to them they can be blacklisted.

So, yes customer service is superb. Human rights are on the other hand non-existent. Suicide rates are among the highest in the world, so with this demand for excellence thereís a dark cloud no one ever references. Thereís just no balance to how one culture operates vs the next it seems, so we usually get into utopian conversations, usually with America in the crosshairs.

Kinda off topic, but sort of on too since we like to find our favorites to pick on.
  #49  
Old 11-12-2017, 06:55 PM
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Default Re: Weird eBay seller

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzHeat View Post
Taiko,

Japan is more than pride in oneís work. Itís a culture of excellence to an absolute flaw. You are expected and demanded to perform. Mistreat one customer, and youíre out of a hard to find job. Another thing I never hear mentioned in such topics is that people in Japan literally die at their desks from over work. If they donít work longer or harder than the guy next to them they can be blacklisted.

So, yes customer service is superb. Human rights are on the other hand non-existent. Suicide rates are among the highest in the world, so with this demand for excellence thereís a dark cloud no one ever references. Thereís just no balance to how one culture operates vs the next it seems, so we usually get into utopian conversations, usually with America in the crosshairs.

Kinda off topic, but sort of on too since we like to find our favorites to pick on.
Well, now we are moving into other generalizations. Human rights are most certainly not "non-existent" in Japan. You are right that people are often overworked, but it's not universal.

Also, there is plenty of research on suicide in Japan--it just so happens that I'm one of the people who has published research on that topic. You are right that suicide rates are very high in Japan, but the reasons are quite complex and not only related to work. The "dark cloud" you mention is frequently discussed in research on Japan, although "dark cloud" is a bit over the top. Japan is no utopia--it has many social ills. Not just suicide rates, but also hikikomori (shut-ins who refuse to go out of their houses) and a rapidly aging society that is facing negative population growth that will drop the current population from 126 million to about 45 million over the next century if nothing changes. These are just a few problems. But it is also a free society in which people have rights and exercise those rights.

As for work and demands, there are tremendous differences between large corporations and small businesses and government offices, etc. People do not in general get summarily fired for making a mistake or failing in customer service once. The vast majority of people do not die at their desks--it happens sometimes and it certainly should not happen, but it's not a daily occurrence. Jobs are not all that hard to find these days given the fact that the population is shrinking. In fact, Japan has long had what in the US we would consider full employment, even with the weak economy over the past two decades. That, too, is a complex issue involving how employment is measured and the extent to which part-time employment is taken into account.

But we are way off topic now. If you want to discuss this, message me privately.
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  #50  
Old 11-12-2017, 07:50 PM
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Default Re: Weird eBay seller

Yup, kinda tough to have conversations without generalizations isnít it? :)

Talk to you in the PMs...
  #51  
Old 11-12-2017, 09:54 PM
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Default Re: Weird eBay seller

Quote:
Originally Posted by taiko View Post
Yeah, that's the American way. The more it costs, the more the business person is likely to show interest in the customer. It's not about pride in one's work or caring about the customer--it's about cash. And it's all short-term. I've spent a lot of time in a country where they would give you the same outstanding service for the orphaned tom that they would give for the $5,000 DW kit. It's about providing service and thinking about others and having pride in what one does. And in the long run, I'll go back to the person who provides great service for the orphaned tom again and again. If I were Bo, the next time Orphaned Tom Guy put something up for sale, even if I wanted it there'd be no chance I'd even think about buying from him.

Parts of this thread have really reminded me of why I so dislike American business practices.
But your seriously confusing someone in the business of selling drums with someone who just has a random drum they want to sell.

I just sold a drum kit (Sorry Bo, you missed out). It's only the 2nd time in 25 years I've sold a drum kit I own. I have no more drum kits I am interested in selling. Am I going to spend a super long time wondering about who is going to buy my next drum kit?

It is very much indeed about pride in one's work or and very much caring about the customer. But the guy I'm selling a drum to IS NOT my customer, because selling drums is not my business. It's a one time private sale.

Now, if you're the business of selling drums, ok, yes, you might spend 10 hours to sell a $50 item in hopes of proving your worth to make a future customer. I do stuff like that all the time in my business.

But if I'm not in the business of selling drums, as most random ebay sellers are not.
  #52  
Old 11-12-2017, 10:32 PM
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Default Re: Weird eBay seller

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But your seriously confusing someone in the business of selling drums with someone who just has a random drum they want to sell.

I just sold a drum kit (Sorry Bo, you missed out). It's only the 2nd time in 25 years I've sold a drum kit I own. I have no more drum kits I am interested in selling. Am I going to spend a super long time wondering about who is going to buy my next drum kit?

It is very much indeed about pride in one's work or and very much caring about the customer. But the guy I'm selling a drum to IS NOT my customer, because selling drums is not my business. It's a one time private sale.

Now, if you're the business of selling drums, ok, yes, you might spend 10 hours to sell a $50 item in hopes of proving your worth to make a future customer. I do stuff like that all the time in my business.

But if I'm not in the business of selling drums, as most random ebay sellers are not.
I get your point completely. I was actually responding not to the issue of the drum seller, but to the comments in response to Bo's inquiry. I agree that this guy on eBay is not in business, or at least isn't very good at it if he is. That said, I don't see why he can't be decent about Bo's request.
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  #53  
Old 11-12-2017, 10:59 PM
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Default Re: Weird eBay seller

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Originally Posted by taiko View Post
I get your point completely. I was actually responding not to the issue of the drum seller, but to the comments in response to Bo's inquiry. I agree that this guy on eBay is not in business, or at least isn't very good at it if he is. That said, I don't see why he can't be decent about Bo's request.
I don't get the feeling he wasn't decent about it. He didn't call Bo names, threaten him, or belittle him. He said, you're wasting my time, and I'll just sell it to someone else who will pay what I'm asking. I don't think that's out of line. He was willing to work with Bo for a while, then he reached his limit. Done.
  #54  
Old 11-12-2017, 11:22 PM
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Default Re: Weird eBay seller

Gosh this is tough crowd. The fella was probably ticked off at his wife and you were a convenient whipping post. Or perhaps he first thought you were "Matt Bo" and realized you were "Bo Eder" and thought you were pulling a fast one-the ole switcheroo lol. I seem to remember Uncle Larry "Giving Away" numerous drums which in kind started a wave of altruism and others giving drums and stuff away-it was a sight to behold, He's American (well after his recent UK trip he may argue otherwise lol), as others, and it wasn't about cash but just one persons character.
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  #55  
Old 11-13-2017, 10:54 PM
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Default Re: Weird eBay seller

Gee that was fun. Now calm down boys and girls.
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