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  #41  
Old 10-12-2017, 09:50 PM
Wave Deckel Wave Deckel is offline
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Default Re: I finally get this small kit thing!!!

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At what point is a small kit no longer small?
Good question. I'd say, 4pc and less is small, 5 pc is the standard size and 6+ pieces can be counted as big drumsets.

I think that the discussion is heading right now into the wrong direction.
Quote:
Am I more creative when I have 1 crash set up versus 3?
You miss the point. The number of drums or cymbals you have does not dictate how creative you are. BUT the more drums and cymbals you have right from the start, the less you are "forced" to explore the many different sounds your drums and cymbals can create.

Classic approach: You want a higher pitched tom sound? Hit the 8". You want a muffled, deep snaresound? Hit your sidesnare. It's easy, comfortable to play with more and more of gear at your disposal. You want new sounds, you just add them to your drumset (toms, bells, cymbals, whatever) and voilà, there is the new "lazy version" of Terry Bozzio. The only difference is: such "gearnuts"-drummers usually rarely think about how they can create new sounds with the stuff they have there. Okay, they have tons of voices and a big drumset.... cooooool.

Next gig: Small club. Suddenly, the Bozzio-Replica drumset doesn't fit on stage - or you would be the only one on stage. You are forced to strip your drums down - and loose many many voices. And you don't know how to get all those or at least some of those similar voices back with the little stuff you have now for the gig.
"Duh, I only have a 10" tomtom, how am I suposed to add those higher tomsounds for the intro?" Easy answer: Press one stick with force onto the head. Voilà. But Terry Bozzio Jr. doesn't know that trick - 'cause he was never forced to think about it, to recreate the sound on a smaller drumset. Too bad.
"Now I need a muffled snaresound... where is my sidesnare?". Dude, just put a purse on the snare - or use your left hand for temporary muffling.

Now, Terry Jr. sits down, starts to explore everything. He suddenly discovers a myriad of sounds. He goes back to his big drumset and now his 24 voices suddenly become 600 because of all those little tricks he learned.

It does not hurt to learn new stuff, to explore the possibilities each instrument a drumset consists of, has. WIth a limited number of drums and cymbals you are more likely to be forced to use them in many different ways.
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  #42  
Old 10-12-2017, 09:58 PM
dmacc dmacc is offline
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Default Re: I finally get this small kit thing!!!

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Originally Posted by Wave Deckel View Post
Good question. I'd say, 4pc and less is small, 5 pc is the standard size and 6+ pieces can be counted as big drumsets.

I think that the discussion is heading right now into the wrong direction.

You miss the point. The number of drums or cymbals you have does not dictate how creative you are. BUT the more drums and cymbals you have right from the start, the less you are "forced" to explore the many different sounds your drums and cymbals can create.

Classic approach: You want a higher pitched tom sound? Hit the 8". You want a muffled, deep snaresound? Hit your sidesnare. It's easy, comfortable to play with more and more of gear at your disposal. You want new sounds, you just add them to your drumset (toms, bells, cymbals, whatever) and voilà, there is the new "lazy version" of Terry Bozzio. The only difference is: such "gearnuts"-drummers usually rarely think about how they can create new sounds with the stuff they have there. Okay, they have tons of voices and a big drumset.... cooooool.

Next gig: Small club. Suddenly, the Bozzio-Replica drumset doesn't fit on stage - or you would be the only one on stage. You are forced to strip your drums down - and loose many many voices. And you don't know how to get all those or at least some of those similar voices back with the little stuff you have now for the gig. "Duh, I only have a 10" tomtom, how am I suposed to add those higher tomsounds for the intro?" Easy answer: Press one stick with force onto the head. Voilà. But Terry ozzio Jr. doesn't know that trick - 'cause he was never forced to think about it, to recreate the sound on a smaller drumset. "Now I need a muffled snaresound... where is my sidesnare?". Dude, just put a purse on the snare - or use your left hand for temporary muffling.

Now, Terry Jr. sits down, starts to explore everything. He suddenly discovers a myriad of sounds. He goes back to his big drumset and now his 24 voices suddenly become 600 because of all those little tricks he learned.

It does not hurt to learn new stuff, to explore the possibilities each instrument a drumset consists of, has.
Guess I missed the point. After 41 years of active studying, playing and teaching..... I've never given 2 thoughts of trying to do more sounds with less.

My goal has always been to play the music with whatever tools I have in front of me at the time. What I've decided to have in front of me was motivated by the music I played and the desire (or lack thereof) to drag gear around.

Since I no longer participate in the gigging world (by choice), I continue to change my set up as mood strikes. Not by the notion of doing more with less (sounds from same sources)- but because I feel like it (mood).
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  #43  
Old 10-12-2017, 10:08 PM
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8Mile 8Mile is offline
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Default Re: I finally get this small kit thing!!!

I really have nothing to add to this conversation except to say, hey, dmacc! Great to see you here, my man.
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  #44  
Old 10-12-2017, 10:41 PM
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AzHeat AzHeat is offline
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Default Re: I finally get this small kit thing!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wave Deckel View Post
Good question. I'd say, 4pc and less is small, 5 pc is the standard size and 6+ pieces can be counted as big drumsets.

I think that the discussion is heading right now into the wrong direction.

You miss the point. The number of drums or cymbals you have does not dictate how creative you are. BUT the more drums and cymbals you have right from the start, the less you are "forced" to explore the many different sounds your drums and cymbals can create.

Classic approach: You want a higher pitched tom sound? Hit the 8". You want a muffled, deep snaresound? Hit your sidesnare. It's easy, comfortable to play with more and more of gear at your disposal. You want new sounds, you just add them to your drumset (toms, bells, cymbals, whatever) and voilà, there is the new "lazy version" of Terry Bozzio. The only difference is: such "gearnuts"-drummers usually rarely think about how they can create new sounds with the stuff they have there. Okay, they have tons of voices and a big drumset.... cooooool.

Next gig: Small club. Suddenly, the Bozzio-Replica drumset doesn't fit on stage - or you would be the only one on stage. You are forced to strip your drums down - and loose many many voices. And you don't know how to get all those or at least some of those similar voices back with the little stuff you have now for the gig.
"Duh, I only have a 10" tomtom, how am I suposed to add those higher tomsounds for the intro?" Easy answer: Press one stick with force onto the head. Voilà. But Terry Bozzio Jr. doesn't know that trick - 'cause he was never forced to think about it, to recreate the sound on a smaller drumset. Too bad.
"Now I need a muffled snaresound... where is my sidesnare?". Dude, just put a purse on the snare - or use your left hand for temporary muffling.

Now, Terry Jr. sits down, starts to explore everything. He suddenly discovers a myriad of sounds. He goes back to his big drumset and now his 24 voices suddenly become 600 because of all those little tricks he learned.

It does not hurt to learn new stuff, to explore the possibilities each instrument a drumset consists of, has. WIth a limited number of drums and cymbals you are more likely to be forced to use them in many different ways.
Had I read an explanation like this when I started seeing these threads, 1. I would have had a clue what being more creative meant. 2. saved everyone from having to read another thread. I was sort of going for this originally, but never quite communicated it.

Everything you said makes total sense and what I also suddenly stumbled on...

so a little something about learning how to play dynamically. I've always had earl plugs in them playing, practicing, etc. Dynamics haven't really meant a ton, outside of really playing softly or loud in spots. Two things that helped me realize the creativity part was:

1. try and play without ear plugs, without hurting your ears. I've never done this and totally resistant to it, thinking I'd tear up my hearing regardless. You cannot hear the different sounds with ear plugs, so exploring things without goes a long way to recognizing what's possible. I'm in the vary early stages of this, but man I sure like my cymbals. Never knew they could do all that with ear plugs stuffed in.

Before I get flamed, I'm not advocating rocking out without ear plugs. Just playing lightly enough from time to time to be able to really tell how things sound. Micing helps too and you can keep ear plugs/buds in. I'm going to sound treat my room to keep the craziness down. This will help really hearing too.

2. Pulling multiple sounds out of mushy toms takes some skill. Rudiments come in super handy. You need them to be able to manipulate the head with your other hand or stick. I suck at this part.

None of the threads about creativity ever made any sense till the above became clear. Had to stop focusing on cover tunes for a while though! Those were making me long to add things back in. Just had to stop thinking about it.
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  #45  
Old 10-12-2017, 11:03 PM
dmacc dmacc is offline
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Default Re: I finally get this small kit thing!!!

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Originally Posted by 8Mile View Post
I really have nothing to add to this conversation except to say, hey, dmacc! Great to see you here, my man.
Thanks, brother!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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  #46  
Old 10-12-2017, 11:12 PM
Wave Deckel Wave Deckel is offline
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Default Re: I finally get this small kit thing!!!

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Originally Posted by AzHeat View Post
1. try and play without ear plugs, without hurting your ears. I've never done this and totally resistant to it, thinking I'd tear up my hearing regardless. You cannot hear the different sounds with ear plugs, ...
That really depends on the earplugs and how strong the protection filters are. You can get e.g. from Alpine the MusicSafe pro earplugs where you can switch from low to medium or high-protection filters. Saves your ears and does NOT kill any frequencies - you will hear everything as if not wearing earplugs, only a tad quieter. Check them out if you haven't already.
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  #47  
Old 10-13-2017, 12:32 AM
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AzHeat AzHeat is offline
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Default Re: I finally get this small kit thing!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wave Deckel View Post
That really depends on the earplugs and how strong the protection filters are. You can get e.g. from Alpine the MusicSafe pro earplugs where you can switch from low to medium or high-protection filters. Saves your ears and does NOT kill any frequencies - you will hear everything as if not wearing earplugs, only a tad quieter. Check them out if you haven't already.
Great tip, I’ll have to look into those.
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  #48  
Old 10-13-2017, 01:34 PM
mikel mikel is offline
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Default Re: I finally get this small kit thing!!!

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Originally Posted by gf2564 View Post
I hear you and don't totally disagree........I guess, in some instances, there is a fine line between being "forced to be creative" and being "forced to settle" because that is all you have/brought! Like many have said, the music should dictate how you play.

Over the fifty five years I have been playing on and off, I have used four, five, six, seven and eight piece kits. About 10 years or so I settled with two up and two down and that is what I feel most comfortable with. I have also tried hard to resist the mentality of "hit it because it is there"! That does come with musical maturity I suppose. I currently have a four piece set at one practice place, a five in another and my main six piece at home. (I let a former band mate "borrow" my eight piece; doubt I will ever see that again!) While it is interesting to revisit the different configurations as I go from one kit to another, the six piece feels most natural.

For ME, I have not found that the smaller kits make me feel any more creative at all, but to each, their own. I don't play out as much as I used to but the venues I do play have a pretty easy load in/out. Because of this, even at 62, I don't mind making an extra trip to the car to get that extra tom or two.
You are still missing the point of the thread. I dont play with a tiny kit and I am not advocating anyone else does. I have PRACTICED with only BD snare and hats to get every single nuance out of those elements. Then added a crash ride. It was like having another kit. Get everything out of that setup then I added a tom. It was heaven and like a sonic rainbow, I got more sounds out of that one tom than my usual 5 piece kit, but only because I tried it.

Now, when I play with my usual kit, the range of sounds, tones and textures I can produce are way, way more than I ever dreamed I could get from the standard 5 drum 4 cymbal setup. Even if you play a 10 drum kit, the range of sounds you can get from a single drum will mean you can get much much more from those 10 drums. Obviously.
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  #49  
Old 10-13-2017, 03:35 PM
gf2564
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Default Re: I finally get this small kit thing!!!

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Originally Posted by mikel View Post
You are still missing the point of the thread. I dont play with a tiny kit and I am not advocating anyone else does. I have PRACTICED with only BD snare and hats to get every single nuance out of those elements. Then added a crash ride. It was like having another kit. Get everything out of that setup then I added a tom. It was heaven and like a sonic rainbow, I got more sounds out of that one tom than my usual 5 piece kit, but only because I tried it.

Now, when I play with my usual kit, the range of sounds, tones and textures I can produce are way, way more than I ever dreamed I could get from the standard 5 drum 4 cymbal setup. Even if you play a 10 drum kit, the range of sounds you can get from a single drum will mean you can get much much more from those 10 drums. Obviously.
With all due respect, I do get the point......I think the point has changed as the discussion has progressed. I see many benefits to experimenting and learning how to get the most from each drum/cymbal you have. This is especially helpful when learning to play and I agree with most all of your statements. At this point in my playing situation, for ME, I find it more efficient to focus my limited practice time on the "tools/textures/sounds" or whatever anyone wants to call it, on what I will be carrying to the gig. I have found that a six piece suits all my needs, it doesn't take up that much more room on stage, don't mind carrying them etc. I would rather work on my "creativity" with what I use for gigs........that is just me; everyone should do what works best for their situation.

Last edited by gf2564; 10-13-2017 at 07:54 PM.
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